HEMA Final Word - No Mutagen Drop or Cost change

[fr4gb4ll]

the big joke of it, is that after my clan farmed a week to get the tons of samples needed, i didn't even used the hema for more than mastering it and maxing it out with a few formas. the weapon isn't a gamechanger that deserve that amount of grind - at least not one who have have mastered nearly everything else (it might be for lower mr-levels, but even our freshling-players are using it much or at all).

one thing the mega-grind did to me though: it got me to re-visit the secura lecta, put formas into it, and made a killing machine out of it. that made the hours of grinding bearable. even though i didn't need any more credits, the additional 20++ millions i got from farming the damn samples had a feel of a small reward to it - and thanks to that DE had make it impotent for credit-farming soon after (it still is the same killing machine though). i wonder when all the other weapons and frames that made farming a little bit less tedious will recive the nerf-hammer too?

Edited January 27, 2017 by fr4gb4ll

[egregiousRac]

2 minutes ago, Naskoni said:

So a moon clan player making 10 000 samples in 36 runs needs to get 278 samples a run. Guess even with both boosters on that quite some runs we're speaking about here (not to mention the stupidity of spending that much plat for boosters to get a supposedly free weapon - 200p per booster per month, since you imply doing it for months). Just to land back on Earth - a 20 round ODD with a single Nekros in a 4-man team without any boosters produces 35 samples on average. But as we already established math is not exactly your strong side. Deluding yourself though - now that is on entirely other plane of mastery in your case...

And in addition - the Hema is not a bad weapon? You concluded that after making a grand total of 125 kills with it? Because in my personal experience it's not even mediocre, it's trash.

 

Nekros is far worse than Hydroid for sample farming. That would have been 22 samples without him. That means 44 samples with Hydroid, 57 samples with both. Also, go to 25 or 30. The first ten waves aren't all that great. Also remember that a single person's drop chance booster applies to the entire squad, making that 20 wave run give 114 with only a single booster.

Oh hey, you looked at my profile. What you don't see there is my clan mate that I was doing this with has 4000 kills on his and is planning to go back to it soon. I was focusing on hitting MR23 when it dropped, so I was just maxing and shelving everything regardless of power. Now that's over with I'm enjoying my sweet, sweet Braton Prime for a bit (oh how I've missed it). There are a bunch of weapons on my slate to play with more soon.

Based on your profile, you're in a ghost clan. I can't tell how many people are in it, but even solo it isn't truly insane in a ghost clan. I'd be shocked if you couldn't whip a team together on the recruiting channel. Also based on your profile, I see that you like the Orthos Prime. Remember, if you leave Primed Reach off your Orthos Prime it will be very sad.

[fr4gb4ll]

22 minutes ago, egregiousRac said:

Nekros is far worse than Hydroid for sample farming. That would have been 22 samples without him. That means 44 samples with Hydroid, 57 samples with both. Also, go to 25 or 30. The first ten waves aren't all that great. Also remember that a single person's drop chance booster applies to the entire squad, making that 20 wave run give 114 with only a single booster.

it is not only the quantity that counts in farming but the quality doing so - at least for me. using hydroid is all well but only when i do a defense of a static location (and even then the tentacles grabing the enemies still annoy me often). when i do surviving runs (as i did when farming the ODS for samples) i much more prefer the nekro mechanic - he also is much more durable than hydroid while doing so.

[Naskoni]

20 minutes ago, egregiousRac said:

Nekros is far worse than Hydroid for sample farming. That would have been 22 samples without him. That means 44 samples with Hydroid, 57 samples with both. Also, go to 25 or 30. The first ten waves aren't all that great. Also remember that a single person's drop chance booster applies to the entire squad, making that 20 wave run give 114 with only a single booster.

Oh hey, you looked at my profile. What you don't see there is my clan mate that I was doing this with has 4000 kills on his and is planning to go back to it soon. I was focusing on hitting MR23 when it dropped, so I was just maxing and shelving everything regardless of power. Now that's over with I'm enjoying my sweet, sweet Braton Prime for a bit (oh how I've missed it). There are a bunch of weapons on my slate to play with more soon.

Based on your profile, you're in a ghost clan. I can't tell how many people are in it, but even solo it isn't truly insane in a ghost clan. I'd be shocked if you couldn't whip a team together on the recruiting channel. Also based on your profile, I see that you like the Orthos Prime. Remember, if you leave Primed Reach off your Orthos Prime it will be very sad.

So, basically without boosters it's now 57 samples per 20 waves of ODD. Or for you hypothetical player from a moon clan that will "easily" collect 10 000 samples that means he needs to do 175 20-wave ODD runs with a dedicated farming squad. Math? You do know what that is, right? Or they might be dumb enough to buy at least one 200p booster (instead of buying the Hema for 225p) and pretend they got it for free. Or even dumber and spend 400p for both boosters at which point they are basically delusional and/or desperate.

Ah, and you have no idea what the Hema is like, you just lied your behind off and now even have to offer excuses as to why you did so...

And using Orthos Prime is relevant how exactly? Primed Reach? "Houston, we have a problem!"

[DinendalMinyatur]

On 02.01.2017 at 9:58 AM, Ciaus said:

In trying to force someone like me to pay for a WEAPON or FRAME, I get pushed away. I can. I have the plat there right now. But I won't. Earning things in a reasonable manner is an ingame milestone and significant piece of gameplay for me.

This.

People keep saying it is not that hard to farm mutagen samples on ODD. Well they are correct. Even for a solo ghost clan 5000 is not much. But I'm not going to do it. I got two reasons:

1)Personal reason: I don't have much time to spend on this game. I can play maybe 1-2 hours a day and I dont want to spend my all playtime for boring grinding. Whenever I play a game I play to have fun not to get bored.

2)Accepting the costs of Hema is somewhat missing the bigger picture: First Nidus and then Hema. Actually Nidus farming is far worse than Hema since Nidus farming based on pure RNG. If we accept this now and if DE keeps this tenacious attitude there will be surely more RNG or grinding to come in the future. 

Some people might say "DE owns this game, they can do whatever they want" True, however as a player customer I choose to not to pay them until they choose the path to less RNG and skill based difficulty to get somewhat "rare" items.

 

 

[-Akeva-Banshee-]

On 1/26/2017 at 2:57 PM, Phatose said:

I don't believe you can cancel clan research once it's started, meaning any clan which started the research will not be able to research anything else in the infested lab until it's done.  Plat can't get around that.

I did some checking and no you cannot cancel research projects other than pigment research. This causes a Legit concern for the game. Those who started this project can no longer do any other research in that lab.


@ChuckMaverick Pointed out you can have multiple research projects active. However IF and When  a future project requires hema as a prerequisite then your still screwed.

In addition having a way to cancel research projects needs to be added if this unsettling cost hike trend continues and more to the point before.

Edited January 27, 2017 by -Akeva-Banshee-

[ChuckMaverick]

2 minutes ago, -Akeva-Banshee- said:

Those who started this project can no longer do any other research in that lab.

You can have multiple research projects running in the same lab at the same time.

[-Akeva-Banshee-]

16 minutes ago, ChuckMaverick said:

You can have multiple research projects running in the same lab at the same time.

I had thought of that but if the future project requires hema as a prerequisite then your still screwed. I will edit the post to show this as well. Thank you for pointing that out.

Edited January 27, 2017 by -Akeva-Banshee-

[Tyrian3k]

10 hours ago, egregiousRac said:

No, it took 8-10 runs for a two-man clan. A solo ghost clan would need 20-25 because of the lack of Nekros' 50% loot boost. For 50 people in a Moon clan that would be about 36 runs each (one a day at this point), but they would be significantly faster due to having twice the players in the match. The latter isn't even necessary though.

You assume that everyone runs a with resource and drop chance booster, don't you? Just saying that it's blatantly obvious that you ran with boosters to get those numbers. You do not get 2500 samples by running to 25 waves/30 minutes ODD/ODS 8-10 times without boosters.

Do 36x4=144 runs per person still sound so reasonable? I mean, sure 50 people farming "only" for 72 hours for one weapon is completely reasonable. Everyone in every clan is especially motivated to farm for that next piece of mastery fodder.

 

If DE really cared about clans having something to work for, they would do more events or bring old events back instead of giving us a grindwall.

The least that DE could do is increase the drop chance on Eris to the same level as the derelicts, but nah, they are "raining" in the derelicts, which no one really goes to outside of sample farming.

[egregiousRac]

1 minute ago, Tyrian3k said:

You assume that everyone runs a with resource and drop chance booster, don't you? Just saying that it's blatantly obvious that you ran with boosters to get those numbers. You do not get 2500 samples by running to 25 waves/30 minutes ODD/ODS 8-10 times without boosters.

Do 36x4=144 runs per person still sound so reasonable? I mean, sure 50 people farming "only" for 72 hours for one weapon is completely reasonable. Everyone in every clan is especially motivated to farm for that next piece of mastery fodder.

 

If DE really cared about clans having something to work for, they would do more events or bring old events back instead of giving us a grindwall.

The least that DE could do is increase the drop chance on Eris to the same level as the derelicts, but nah, they are "raining" in the derelicts, which no one really goes to outside of sample farming.

If the clan is that depopulated they should be smaller anyway. Running a mountain clan takes up much of the slack left by boosters. Additionally, since chance boosters are shared with squad members, it isn't overly arduous to pool a bit of plat so that senior members can grab it and act as squad leaders. 50 people in a Mountain clan with only that booster brings it down significantly.

The argument that I'm seeing here is that clans don't have enough population to do it. With 20% active population it will take about ten runs with both boosters, twenty runs with one booster, or forty runs with no boosters. If the active population in the last month is that low, the clan should be a lower rank, dropping the cost significantly. The only level that this doesn't apply to is Ghost clans because you can't go any lower.

[Naskoni]

7 hours ago, egregiousRac said:

If the clan is that depopulated they should be smaller anyway. Running a mountain clan takes up much of the slack left by boosters. Additionally, since chance boosters are shared with squad members, it isn't overly arduous to pool a bit of plat so that senior members can grab it and act as squad leaders. 50 people in a Mountain clan with only that booster brings it down significantly.

The argument that I'm seeing here is that clans don't have enough population to do it. With 20% active population it will take about ten runs with both boosters, twenty runs with one booster, or forty runs with no boosters. If the active population in the last month is that low, the clan should be a lower rank, dropping the cost significantly. The only level that this doesn't apply to is Ghost clans because you can't go any lower.

Basically:

"I have no idea what I'm talking about, but I spend 400p a month for both boosters and it was really easy to get it for free, guys!"

[-OMS-Spriggan.EX]

Too much effort for a near worthless weapon or to be treated as a trophy.

It was the last time i spend pl knowing that DE not will chance anything and the last time i put some money for the game because i expected at least a chance to drop rate and the comunity had a numerous of ideas around being suggested so it is in my point of view: anti-player.

[ChuckMaverick]

On 21/01/2017 at 7:16 PM, ChuckMaverick said:

On 21/01/2017 at 7:03 PM, AshenHaze said:

Question now becomes what are you, as a player, going to do about it?

A) Sit and nod your head like an imbecile

B) State you're never gonna buy plat again then do it three days later when you somehow get a -50% off coupon from login

C) Just never finish Hema in favor of doing other things OR obtain Hema and forget about it in a few days.

D) All of the above

E) None of the above

I have a recently crafted Nekros Prime to rank up and probably forma a few times, so I'm doing that casually in the Derelict while also hunting the remaining corrupted mods I don't have yet.

When I eventually get enough mutagen samples to finish the Hema research I'll open up my clan to anyone who wants to come and visit for a day to grab any blueprints they want, for free.

So, a week later and it's time for an update...

Three days from now anyone who wants the Hema can just PM me in game.

(PC only, sorry console players.)

[Buff00n]

6 minutes ago, ChuckMaverick said:

Three days from now anyone who wants the Hema can just PM me in game.

Congrats!

After getting it a week ago, I started accepting research refugees to join my solo clan or just pop in for the Hema.  PC players, do not pay plat for access to the Hema.  Just message me (or @ChuckMaverick after 1/31) and we can hook you up.  Maybe we should start a list of such clan owners somewhere?

As for the weapon itself, I ranked and sold it.  Burst fire with slow bullets is just not my style.

[light-v]

The other issue is the fact the mutagen samples drops are not in line with their grineer and corpus counterparts. I have over 10k of detonite and fieldron samples but only had 400 -ish mutagen when the Hema came out 

[k05h]

On 27.1.2017 at 5:27 PM, egregiousRac said:

I think I gained about fifty of each there. It's hard to tell given that I haven't paid them much attention for a while.

This game currently requires around 400 orokin cells for all of the items in the game other than potatoes and forma, so that isn't throwing it off too badly. I'm not sure on the neurodes needed in the game, but they are used a fair amount too.

I farmed my 5000 mutagen samples and ended up with almost 700 neurodes, almost 380 orokin cells and more than 7 million nano spores. That what I call useless resource inflation.

 

 

[Naskoni]

Just now, k05h said:

I farmed my 5000 mutagen samples and ended up with almost 700 neurodes, almost 380 orokin cells and more than 7 million nano spores. That what I call useless resource inflation.

 

 

Don't worry, nothing will be useless nor go to waste. Future research costs will be adjusted accordingly. It may seem as much now but don't get too used to that feeling.

[plexus_brachialis]

13 minutes ago, k05h said:

I farmed my 5000 mutagen samples and ended up with almost 700 neurodes, almost 380 orokin cells and more than 7 million nano spores. That what I call useless resource inflation.

'new thing costs 10x of your current stock, but since we dont want you to farm derelict anymore, drop chance is gonna go down. and also everywhere else they drop'

[Liminal]

9 hours ago, ChuckMaverick said:

Three days from now anyone who wants the Hema can just PM me in game.

If I wasn't the warlord for my clan I would take you up on that :P

 

(btw today's the 3rd time I let a 75% discount go to waste... it's a huge waste, but I think I'd rather not be a hypocrite)

Edited January 29, 2017 by The_Doc

[-OMS-Spriggan.EX]

10 hours ago, Buff00n said:

Congrats!

After getting it a week ago, I started accepting research refugees to join my solo clan or just pop in for the Hema.  PC players, do not pay plat for access to the Hema.  Just message me (or @ChuckMaverick after 1/31) and we can hook you up.  Maybe we should start a list of such clan owners somewhere?

As for the weapon itself, I ranked and sold it.  Burst fire with slow bullets is just not my style.

That´s great, no point to keep using pl when the players can help ea other.

 

1 hour ago, The_Doc said:

If I wasn't the warlord for my clan I would take you up on that :P

 

(btw today's the 3rd time I let a 75% discount go to waste... it's a huge waste, but I think I'd rather not be a hypocrite)

Same, no reason to be hypocrite.

[DoomFruit]

20 hours ago, ChuckMaverick said:

Three days from now anyone who wants the Hema can just PM me in game.

(PC only, sorry console players.)

Tempting, very tempting, but I'm not going to touch the damn thing at all unless they reduce the idiotic cost. The only statistic they'll take notice of is gaping holes in weapon usage and levelling charts. If nobody uses a piece of gear, even DE might notice that something's wrong.

[(PSN)VanHorstmann90]

My shadow clan and I won't research Hema.
We do have a life and love to play other games too: farming a broken resource for literally hours per day it's not our vision of entertainment.
If Hema will lock further researches in the Dojo, we won't spend our time on them.

I've spent 1400hs on Warframe, I'm not gonna hate it because of this poor choice.

Just like Ash or Mag's rework. I don't find them useful for anything but wasting my time. So I just stopped playing them.
I.E.: Nekros was fine, just as Excalibur, Mesa, Volt.... DE can do things right if they put will in it. However, I cannot deal with poor choices or let them ruin my game.

They could have reworked clan's research just like colors pigments work, and it would have been fine as a clan effort.
What they did is just a mistake they're too proud to admit.
 

[(PSN)Silverback73]

52 minutes ago, (PS4)VanHorstmann90 said:

My shadow clan and I won't research Hema.
We do have a life and love to play other games too: farming a broken resource for literally hours per day it's not our vision of entertainment.
If Hema will lock further researches in the Dojo, we won't spend our time on them.

I've spent 1400hs on Warframe, I'm not gonna hate it because of this poor choice.

Just like Ash or Mag's rework. I don't find them useful for anything but wasting my time. So I just stopped playing them.
I.E.: Nekros was fine, just as Excalibur, Mesa, Volt.... DE can do things right if they put will in it. However, I cannot deal with poor choices or let them ruin my game.

They could have reworked clan's research just like colors pigments work, and it would have been fine as a clan effort.
What they did is just a mistake they're too proud to admit.
 

I like the cogent sting in your post.  It's the kind of response that adds weight and validity to your argument, whether someone agrees or disagrees.  I hope DE sees this.

[ChameleonBro]

Honestly increasing the drop rate is like a different version of lowering the cost only S#&$tier. They are using increased drop rates as a cover to make it look like it is actually useful while in reality it doesn't help that much.  They should just lower the cost, I am sure players who farmed for it wouldn't mind. In fact they would probably WANT DE to lower the cost so that we don't have to go through the same grind as they did.

[plexus_brachialis]

15 minutes ago, ChameleonBro said:

Honestly increasing the drop rate is like a different version of lowering the cost only S#&$tier. They are using increased drop rates as a cover to make it look like it is actually useful while in reality it doesn't help that much.  They should just lower the cost, I am sure players who farmed for it wouldn't mind. In fact they would probably WANT DE to lower the cost so that we don't have to go through the same grind as they did.

except they won't do anything because

a) they want to 'honor' those who did grind already

b) it's already 'raining in derelict'

all we can hope for at this point is that they'll not repeat this in the future (except they want do do more 'crazy clan stuff like this') and not lock other research behind hema (which they didn't confirm nor deny yet)