(PSN)psycofang Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, Separius said: 'm so sorry for offending you by pointing out that console players haven't had the experience to play Nidus and that my experience dictates that you have to get first hand experience X before you can say you know enough about X to argue regarding X. So sorry about that. I'm still standing by what I said though. I never said i HAVENT played Nidus. My wife plays on PC and thus has him, which i got the glee of experiencing, same when bard frame hits. Just because of this ps4 tag doesnt mean im locked to one form of access. Nice assumptions though,and yet again his application doesnt change and I dare you to pull up a situation to refute this that most others dont have to deal with. In fact soon as i get home ill screen shot it. 5 minutes ago, Separius said: Sorry if you dislike this, but they weren't logical fallacies at all. Yes they were Nidus is not so much an outlier that his application is suddenly different from any other frame. His stack system is "unique" but again until he has to be applied in a way no other frame can be in terms of damage, CC, gun use etc hes no different. Again the game is not complicated at all. Sorry you cant accept it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstern25 Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Recasting his 4 no longer refreshes the duration too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trowicia Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, jfhsanseiIII said: I literally have no problem going into a nullified bubble and murdering said nullified in a matter of moments. Also, I can take appropriate weapons for downing the bubble if levels are too high. Nidus is an amazing frame. Your doom and gloom thread lacks merit. Preach. Nidus is still as amazing as he was before this patch. I don't know one person bright enough to even sit in a Nullifier's bubble long enough to the point where you lose either a significant number or all of the mutation stacks. Edited January 12, 2017 by Trowicia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Separius Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) 18 minutes ago, (PS4)psycofang said: I never said i HAVENT played Nidus. My wife plays on PC and thus has him, which i got the glee of experiencing, same when bard frame hits. Just because of this ps4 tag doesnt mean im locked to one form of access. Don't you think that would have been useful to point out at this point? You could have just answered yes to his question, could have avoided some half dozen posts of pointless arguing. Then you do have experience, so there is no reason to continue this discussion from now on. However, no they weren't logical fallacies, because as I said someone just watching a Nidus video on youtube and reading about his abilities on the wikia is not enough experience on which you can base opinions on the frame. When I saw rebecca playing him when he was first shown, I had no idea he'd be this powerful, neither when I read the ability descriptions on the wiki. And the analogue I brought up is about the same thing: experience is needed in both to be fully knowledgable in them. But if you are gonna respond to this, just don't, I don't care anymore, because you are adamant that it was a logical fallacy, while it wasn't, but clearly I won't convince you and you won't convince me either, so let's just agree to disagree. Have a good day. Edited January 12, 2017 by Separius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malekas Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) Most of these nerfs will barely be noticeable, but I think the one about the maggots is a bigger issue than people realize. The maggots no longer auto pop and gain you stacks. Now, you have to detonate them with your 1. Well, then what's the point of his 4? The stacks? If I'm going to hit the enemy with my 1 anyways, which will gain me stacks, why do I care about popping the maggot? The CC? His 2 is better for CC. A slight health regen? Just use Rejuvenation. I'm just not seeing a lot of use for his 4 if it's not helping me gain stacks on the side. On a side note. Really DE?! You finally get it right with a frame design, and you nerf it? WTF? Edited January 12, 2017 by malekas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)bigsnake84 Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Without even playing him i can tell he really only needed some slight nerf to his Undying passive... Which they did! And finally we get some scaling damage for high level content. Its a line of damage that relies on a non-recastable 2 that grabs enemies once during its life As long as im LITERALLY unkillable with Wukong, Nidus doesnt come close to brain dead gameplay. I can pull off being the highest damage dealer with just a melee weapon (even in the presence of a Synoid Simulor Mirage) being an immortal who actually thrives on taking damage, and being able to revive anyone no matter the risks making everyone around me pseudo-immortal too... (Until a nullifier comes too close). How is that more acceptable? Btw that melee weapon is one shotting 100+ enemies. Sure it relies on the body count + blood rush combo, but its still ridiculous. Alternatively, use Valkyr with Naramon's Shadow Step. Go into Hysteria and be invisible for as long as enemies exist. Did you know being invisible negates the damage she would take after turning off Hysteria essentially undoing the main nerf to her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shad0wWatcher Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 When i saw this thread i for some reason had this reaction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Knight Raime Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 individually these changes are not much. but its how they interact together that bothers me. 15 stacks is way too high especially considering how hard you are making stacks to obtain and maintain now. his 4 will have far less CC now which means nullies can approach easier and are now a bigger threat because they can remove stacks. all of this means hes going to die more often. and because of the changes it will be really rough to recover. I REALLY hate that nullies continue to be their bandaid. I feel 12 or 13 stacks would have been fine. But the fact that they don't consider 15 stacks to be a lot actually scares me. DE goes and makes a nearly perfect frame and they have to ruin it. I'm not against nidus being tweaked. I just wish DE actually knew what they were doing more often than not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Variiiz Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) From reading the patch notes (Don't have Nidus yet since I'm on console), He seems fine with the nerfs/tweaks or whatever you want to call them. But my only issue is the maggots not detonating when latched onto an enemy. Mainly because they are not bound to the creep and can roam into other rooms and enemies won't be coming to Nidus (who would most likely be chilling in the ravenous creep) because they are being cc'd by the maggots. Edited January 12, 2017 by (XB1)SilverWolf198 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)psycofang Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 7 minutes ago, Separius said: Don't you think that would have been useful to point out at this point? You could have just answered yes to his question, could have avoided some half dozen posts of pointless arguing. Then you do have experience, so there is no reason to continue this discussion from now on, have a nice day! Nope. I like letting ppl rant because me experiencing Nidus played out exactly as i simulated in my head. I did and built exactly what i needed to do and be done long before he came out. Application through applied practical information seperates theory crafting from expected out come. In my case it was, still is and always will be the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PsiWarp Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, (Xbox One)SilverWolf198 said: From reading the patch notes (Don't have Nidus yet since I'm on console), He seems fine with the nerfs/tweaks or whatever you want to call them. But my only issue is the maggots not detonating when latched onto an enemy. Mainly because they are not bound to the creep and can roam into other rooms and enemies won't be coming to Nidus (who would most likely be chilling in the ravenous creep) because they are being cc'd by the maggots. True, Maggots do get a little too excited and wander off. I guess now recasting Ravenous to make them explode will see more use, since holding 1 lets you see where they are (if they are attached to enemies or not) and pressing 4 makes em auto-detonate. A lot of guesswork goes into making sure each Maggot hit multiple enemies this way, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MokutoBunshi Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) I just finished the corpus sortie and tested nidus out against them. I have found one very big oddity about the Nidus nerf: Nidus is the ONLY WARFRAME that can't enter a nulifier bubble to kill it regularly (if he does he cant just re-cast the stacks he lost), his other abilities on top of this are also canceled (like normal). My loadout was Nidus, spira, dread and hirudo. It was apparent on the 2nd mission. When it came to stacks the nullifiers burned like FIRE. I couldn't get near them, oh yeah and btw even if that nullifier "weak spot" was available to me I wouldnt be able to hit it due to the short corridors. But I digress. I when was trying to hit the nillifiers and best I could do was use the spira. The best I got from my team mates was "git gud". This issue with nullifiers became VERY apparent when I tried to revive one of them and I lost 16 stacks in as many seconds and then (since its a sortie) quickly died. Because of this and the enemy concentration at that point I could try to build stacks quickly but the nullifiers would A: remove my 2nd-3rd ability like normal. B: stop my 1st ability from hitting enemies inside the bubble and C: reset my stacks. The problem being C, nidus' 3rd and 4th ability necessitates that I stay in a general area. and I cant do that when I am avoiding a nullifier. As I am running I can't use my 3rd or 4th ability so on sortie levels I hit 0 FAST so I can't keep running and stacking without my survivability....abilities. And as you may have guessed I cant stack if I cant clump enemies. Where there were those clumps my team mates naturally were there and while they helped me survive, they impeded any progress I was making. When I split off to go stack, (starting at 0 as usual) I would be very easy to kill. (thus loosing all my stacks [15 per health hitting 0 and 1 per second or so per brush with a nullifier]). I was stuck between nullifiers and a hard place the whole mission. I think this about makes my point. Its not nice when I have to get used to a new frame as is who apparently is allergic to corpus like the old mag to Grineer. ]\'[ Edited January 12, 2017 by MokutoBunshi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MokutoBunshi Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Hopefully that was short. Sweet and informative. ]\'[ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Iye Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Angrados said: Considering you ended you question with a period rather than a question mark I think we both know the answer to that. I'm looking forward to when Ember finally gets nerfed. It'll happen, just wait for it... probably once her Deluxe Skin drops. Apologies if you think that I picked you up intentionally but couldn't be helped cause seeing you coming here to talk about Nidus started suggesting/expecting nerf for another one just made me feel kinda awkward. I surely wanna ask what's wrong with you people's thinktanks? have you really played ember on a long run? How many times she keeps falling and falling, seems more like there is a self damage mechanism working inside of her and here you are expecting something just because you are kinda bored of her ultimate taking NOOB level enemy kills away from you? When is the last time you have seen a player using ember in sorties? Not all frames are viable for every faction or stage of this game, the same way she is a low and mid tier frame for same level users. She is fine though I know that there are numerous threads whining for her change but I do want to inform you that she has already been worked on in the past and that was a big one for her which made her position come to this current situation. I'm gonna say again, please refrain yourselves from posting/commenting/talking about so called nerfs/reworks cause end of the day its us losing out options of frames to have fun with in the game. Edited January 12, 2017 by AhmadIvu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Separius Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, (PS4)psycofang said: I like letting ppl rant because me experiencing Nidus played out exactly as i simulated in my head. Really? That's why you like letting people rant? That's so cool. 8 minutes ago, (PS4)psycofang said: Application through applied practical information seperates theory crafting from expected out come. In my case it was, still is and always will be the latter. Good for you! Though theorycrafting does consider expected outcomes through analyzing game mechanics without actually doing so in practise, but we found out it wasn't the case with you, as you do have experience with Nidus! That's great! I'm glad we settled this, have a nice day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnuggleBuckets Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 As with many nerfs DE has done, they overdo it. The stack increase would have been fine on it's own, but then piling on with that nullifier issue makes things bad. What's wrong with introducing only one change per patch? Seems more scientific if DE wants to understand how to improve on their changes, add/change one variable at a time so that you can gauge the effects of that one clearer, instead of muddying the waters with too many changes to truly understand how they interplay with each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattoropael Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 13 minutes ago, MokutoBunshi said: Nidus is the ONLY WARFRAME that can't enter a nulifier bubble to kill it. No, all ability-based tank frames can't enter the bubble to kill it since doing so would nuke their tankiness. Inaros is the only tank frame I can think of that can enter a bubble since he "only" loses the 100% armor bonus from Scarab Armor (leaving a still reasonable amount of armor, as well as his massive health pool), and even then I generally avoid entering bubbles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navarc Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) 16 minutes ago, MokutoBunshi said: I lost 16 stacks in as many seconds It's only 1 stack per second? So you have to stand over a minute to lose your stacks? I thought it was meant to be like 10 stacks per second to make him equal to other frames losing all their buffs all at once 100% cleansed for just looking in the direction of a nullifier. Comparison Nidus: 1% per second Rhino: 100% per 0,01 Inaros: 100% per 0,01 Edited January 12, 2017 by Navarchus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)TwilightGrim Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 how fast do the stacks drain? they said it would drain, not lose all instatly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MokutoBunshi Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Just now, Mattoropael said: No, all ability-based tank frames can't enter the bubble to kill it since doing so would nuke their tankiness. Inaros is the only tank frame I can think of that can enter a bubble since he "only" loses the 100% armor bonus from Scarab Armor (leaving a still reasonable amount of armor, as well as his massive health pool), and even then I generally avoid entering bubbles. Let me change that. ]\'[ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MokutoBunshi Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Just now, Navarchus said: It's only 1 stack per second? So you have to stand over a minute to lose your stacks? I thought it was meant to be like 10 stacks per second to make him equal to other frames losing all their buffs all at once 100% cleansed for just looking in the direction of a nullifier. I didn't actually measure :P some people are saying its more. Ill change that too. When I got sapped the first time though I was standing still reviving someone. ]\'[ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Ropefish- Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) did some simaris simulator testing, stacks seem to gain slower might just be me tbh. tested with level 20-125 nullies, just normal ones. drain in low levels is about 1 stack per a second or so, even when a bunch of nullies are on you. high level nullies seem to drain about the same stacks but in less than a second or so. taking about eh 5-7 of them ontop of me drained 10 stacks before i killed them. his ult is kinda... meh... now as stacks gained are buggy and you only get one from a enemy dying even if like 3 maggots explode on them and even then it doesn't give you stacks sometimes. also casting the ult on top of a previous one does not re-start the timer. so nullies are not as big of an issue as making his ult kinda useless now as it doesn't do much... enemies will be killed before the maggots kill anything it's better to just destroy your own maggots. Edit: Just posting my findings, nulli thing doesn't seem as bad might be an issue but his ult is kinda... pointless? Edited January 12, 2017 by Reedfish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navarc Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Just now, MokutoBunshi said: I didn't actually measure :P some people are saying its more. Ill change that too. When I got sapped the first time though I was standing still reviving someone. ]\'[ Man if it takes you about 2 minutes standing still in a nullifier bubble to have your buffs removed that's still too much when everyone else lose everything instantly.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talionic Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 3 hours ago, (Xbox One)BURRITO DEVIL said: Well people cried for nerfs when he came out,so did some youtubers,you got what you asked for A vocal minority always cries for nerfs. They should be ignored. Nidus was fine, but I don't think this nerf is a big deal anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MokutoBunshi Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 I am testing how fast the stacks drain in the simulacrum right now. Will update you all when finished. ]\'[ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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