Which stats u conside high-tier on Tigris Riven?

[------Solo------]

Well what the titles says, i've been rolling recently on tigris riven, thinking what stats should i roll, so any ideas? Suggestions?

[IceColdHawk]

Reload speed, multishot and damage.

[SpeedOfLightPuncher]

Status chance (only if over 60%)

Slash damage

Reload speed 

and also damage, multishot 

Edited January 10, 2017 by SpeedOfLightPuncher

[AXCrusnik]

I don't have a Tigris riven but I'd probably want straight damage, elemental damage actually multishot because shotgun, and reload speed.

Edited January 10, 2017 by AXCrusnik

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

Damage

Multishot

Slash

[Flaezon]

reload, status, dmg

Edited January 10, 2017 by Venoct

[VentiGlondi]

+reload speed -magazine size

Make it single-shot

[KIREEK]

Since i use tigris for high level infested or infested bosses, the one thing it can have to a decent % would be the faction damage for a start, extra damage, extra multishot and negative speed or zoom would be idea, but the faction damage mod is imperative, otherwise it's pointless to have it on my build, even regular damage can't reach the effectiveness of the faction damage mod.

[Ciaus]

31 minutes ago, VentiGlondi said:

+reload speed -magazine size

Make it single-shot

You really don't want this at all because it halves your damage, which against high level enemies makes a difference, and once you are good with the lift trigger you can consistently get two shots spread on groups of weaker enemies. 

I got one with +Slash and +Toxin and kept that, but reload speed, damage, multishot and then probably slash are your best. Status is good too, but you need a LOT of it to make it that useful (like 54% or something), otherwise it can't replace a dual-stat mod. I don't even know if Tigris can roll that. 

[Slaviar]

Status and reload speed, maybe multishot

[Inarticulate]

For the Tigris Prime:

• Status chance above 53.4% to be able to replace a 60% status-elemental without losing 100% status chance
• Multishot to increase the number of procs
• Electricity damage if using the Corrosive-Blast build to increase the chance of a Corrosive proc
• Cold damage if using the Viral-Radiation build to increase the chance of a Viral proc
• Toxin damage to increase the chance of a Corrosive or Viral proc
• Damage to increase the damage of each Slash proc
• Reload speed to increase your effective rate of fire

You don't want to use Slash damage for either the Corrosive-Blast build or the Viral-Radiation build because that reduces the probability of landing a Corrosive proc or Viral proc, respectively, regardless of the mod you replace.

 

For the Sancti Tigris:

• Whatever gives you more raw damage output.
• If you can get status chance above 60%, you can viably use a status build on the Sancti Tigris and take advantage of its innately faster reload speed over the Tigris Prime.

[(PSN)vinster]

On 1/10/2017 at 4:41 PM, Inarticulate said:

...

You don't want to use Slash damage for either the Corrosive-Blast build or the Viral-Radiation build because that reduces the probability of landing a Corrosive proc or Viral proc, respectively, regardless of the mod you replace.

Thanks for the tips.

Can you help me understand why I can't proc both Slash and say, Viral on a 100% Tigris status build?  Does one damage type take precedence over another?

On another note, I sorta gave up on rolling a Tigris Riven.  After over 60 rolls (!), I couldn't get one with a good status chance (above 53.4% as you mentioned), plus other good enough positive stats to replace, say the dual-stat mods (eg. 60% heat and 60% status chance mod).  The Tigris riven I'm using now has a +66 damage, +36 status duration, +38 toxin.

[InsomnIaC.]

On 1/11/2017 at 8:41 AM, Inarticulate said:

• Cold damage if using the Viral-Radiation build to increase the chance of a Viral proc
• Toxin damage to increase the chance of a Corrosive or Viral proc

You don't want to use Slash damage for either the Corrosive-Blast build or the Viral-Radiation build because that reduces the probability of landing a Corrosive proc or Viral proc, respectively, regardless of the mod you replace.

In practicality, you don't need more cold/toxin for more viral procs since you only need 1 proc to take effect and there are more than enough pellets in a fully-connected Tigris shot to apply that viral debuff. Stacking viral procs doesn't do anything either, unlike corrosive.

Slash is actually very desirable for the Viral-Radiation build since it increases the probability of slash procs occurring, which means more pellets proc slash for more finisher bleed damage. Since both Radiation and Viral elementals apply only one proc without stacking, you want as many of your pellets as possible to apply the slash proc.

1 hour ago, (PS4)vinster said:

Can you help me understand why I can't proc both Slash and say, Viral on a 100% Tigris status build?  Does one damage type take precedence over another?

You can proc for all elemental types shown in the damage types in your Arsenal UI on a single pull of the Tigris, no two different status procs will override one another. Each pellet, however, determines what status it procs by rolling a probability die based on the damage distribution. The mechanics are explained in the Status Effect page on the Warframe wiki:

"When both physical and elemental damage types are present on a weapon (such as a base physical damage weapon with elemental mods equipped), physical damage types are weighted four times as much as elemental types are in the proc calculation, making elemental procs relatively rarer."

This means that for a Tigris Prime with (e.g.) 10 impact, 10 puncture, 80 slash, 120 radiation, and 120 viral, the probability distribution for proc chance is as follows:

[Total denominator: (10+10+80)*4 + 120 + 120 = 640 ]

Probability for a pellet to proc impact = Probability for a pellet to proc puncture = 10*4 / 640 = 6.25%

Probability for a pellet to proc slash = 80*4 / 640 = 50%

Probability for a pellet to proc radiation = Probability for a pellet to proc viral = 120 / 640 = 18.75%

 

An important thing to note is which status effect stacks, and which don't. As the mechanics are for now, only Toxin, Gas, Corrosive and Slash procs stack, meaning that you can have multiple of those procs occurring for a 100% status shotgun or innate-multishot weapon for maximum effect.

Tigris Prime is also limited by the fact that it needs 4 60/60 dual elemental damage/status mods (or 3 60/60s and a 53.4% status riven), which limits the potential elemental combos it can have and also dilutes status proc distributions as different damage types are added to the mix. (e.g. Having only Viral damage on say, the Hema means all status procs will be Viral. If it is modded for Corrosive damage on top of the base Viral damage, status procs will now be distributed between Corrosive and Viral procs, leading to lesser chances of obtaining a Viral proc.)

Edited January 30, 2017 by InsomnIaC.

[(PSN)vinster]

22 minutes ago, InsomnIaC. said:

...

"When both physical and elemental damage types are present on a weapon (such as a base physical damage weapon with elemental mods equipped), physical damage types are weighted four times as much as elemental types are in the proc calculation, making elemental procs relatively rarer."

This means that for a Tigris Prime with (e.g.) 10 impact, 10 puncture, 80 slash, 120 radiation, and 120 viral, the probability distribution for proc chance is as follows:

[Total denominator: (10+10+80)*4 + 120 + 120 = 640 ]

Probability for a pellet to proc impact = Probability for a pellet to proc puncture = 10*4 / 640 = 6.25%

Probability for a pellet to proc slash = 80*4 / 640 = 50%

Probability for a pellet to proc radiation = Probability for a pellet to proc viral = 120 / 640 = 18.75%

An important thing to note is which status effect stacks, and which don't. As the mechanics are for now, only Toxin, Gas, Corrosive and Slash procs stack, meaning that you can have multiple of those procs occurring for a 100% status shotgun or innate-multishot weapon for maximum effect.

...

Awesome.  Thanks so much for the detailed response (I did look up the wikia before posting but missed it), and finally understand this proc distribution after playing Warframe for almost 3 years!  :)

My next question is this:

- Prior to Rivens, I was running a 100% status Tigris Prime and was pretty happy with it.  With the current Tigris Riven I rolled, I do have increased damage across the board, but sacrificed one my dual-stat-status mods so that my status chance drops to around 99.4% I think. 

Is it still worth using the Riven or should I stick with a 100% status build.  I generally use my Tigris only against some sortie bosses (eg. Raptor) and higher level enemies like sortie Bursas, etc.

[InsomnIaC.]

1 minute ago, (PS4)vinster said:

- Prior to Rivens, I was running a 100% status Tigris Prime and was pretty happy with it.  With the current Tigris Riven I rolled, I do have increased damage across the board, but sacrificed one my dual-stat-status mods so that my status chance drops to around 99.4% I think. 

Is it still worth using the Riven or should I stick with a 100% status build.  I generally use my Tigris only against some sortie bosses (eg. Raptor) and higher level enemies like sortie Bursas, etc.

For a 100% status Tigris riven, you should have 6 mandatory mods - (Primed) Point Blank, Hell's Chamber, 4 60/60s.

Typically, for the last 2 mods, most people choose from the following pool:

Blaze - for more overall damage including elemental (boosts base damage as well, but causes some status proc dilution due to increased weightage on heat or secondary elemental types)

Vicious Spread - for more base damage (also boosts slash proc tick damage)

Sweeping Serration - for higher slash proc chance (note: does not increase slash proc damage)

Seeking Fury - for punchthrough and moderate boost in reload speed (without any other reload mods, new reload speed is 1.8s / 1.15 = 1.565s)

special mention: Chilling Reload - amazing reload speed boost, but relatively useless cold damage boost.

 

I'll need to know the exact stats on your Riven to make a precise, calculated assessment of how best to mod your Tigris; generally speaking though you'll want to use it in one of the 2 remaining slots after the 6 mandatory have been placed to retain the 100% status capability. Bear in mind 99.4% status is VASTLY different from 100% status. For maximum status effect you need your Tigris Prime to reach 100% status before multi-shot is applied. (See video in spoilers below)

 

If you're modding for absolute raw damage on shot, stick with what you have. This especially applies to cases when hunting bosses immune to status effects (including invincibility frames); examples like Councilor Vay Hek, Sargas Ruk, Jackal, Lephantis, Mutalist Alad V, which lessen the effectiveness of Damage Over Time effects from slash, gas, or toxin procs from a 100% status Tigris Prime. For most cases, however, the Tigris outright does enough damage that you won't really need a raw damage build. It's better to run it such that you can deal with everything in your way than to mod it specifically for boss fights.

For plenty of non-boss enemies, a 100% status Tigris Prime (especially Rad-Viral, Sweeping Serration) trumps overall dps simply for its potential to bleed enemies to death. As this probably hasn't been mentioned explicitly in this thread yet, I'll just share this video here:

Spoiler

 

 

[ThorienKELL]

On 1/11/2017 at 1:41 AM, Inarticulate said:

For the Tigris Prime:

You don't want to use Slash damage for either the Corrosive-Blast build or the Viral-Radiation build because that reduces the probability of landing a Corrosive proc or Viral proc, respectively, regardless of the mod you replace.

What? Nah, no way. Slash is good it's direct finisher damage, as more slash as possible please. 

Since each pellet proccs, you only need very tiny percent of viral, you only need *one* proc of viral cause multiple proccs are redundant. 

And you need only 4 proccs of corrosive for full effect (each removes 25% armor). So you do need it more then viral but not in excessive amounts. Slash on the other hand is direct damage increase, +35% of your raw weapon damage. 

 

[InsomnIaC.]

3 hours ago, ThorienKELL said:

And you need only 4 proccs of corrosive for full effect (each removes 25% armor). So you do need it more then viral but not in excessive amounts.

The rest of your post was correct but the blatant falsehood of this statement triggers my compulsion to reduce misinformation and provide proper corrections.

Two ways to prove your statement wrong:

1) From the wikia:

"Corrosion can be applied multiple times to the same target, with each following proc reducing the remaining armor by another 25% of its current (not the initial) value, thereby causing the target's armor to decay at an exponentially decreasing rate."

Each corrosive proc sets the new armor value of the enemy to 0.75 of the value just before the proc occurred. A second corrosive proc would apply another 0.75x multiplier to that new value, reducing it to 0.75^2 = 0.5625 of the original value. It doesn't reduce 25% of total on each hit, that'd be absurdly overpowered.

2) Asking this question:

Have you ever seen an armored enemy's health bar go from yellow to red with 4 corrosive procs? If that was the case armor'd be totally redundant if you just bring a rapid fire weapon with decent status chance and pump 7-10 bullets into the target before going for the killing blow.

 

The actual number of corrosive procs to completely strip enemy armor is approximately 19 to 20, as evidenced by math: 0.75^19 = 0.0042283 or 0.75^20 = 0.0031712 .

At either of these values enemy armor is at <1% of original value and will likely be rounded down to 0, resulting in the complete armor stripping observed when the health bar transitions from yellow to red.

[ashrah]

multishot.dmg.punch trough.or reload

[Inarticulate]

12 hours ago, (PS4)vinster said:

Can you help me understand why I can't proc both Slash and say, Viral on a 100% Tigris status build?  Does one damage type take precedence over another?

If you're using the Corrosive build, you want to maximize the number of Corrosive procs you land to boost your next shot's (i.e. the second hit of the duplex) direct damage.

If you're using the Viral build, Sweeping Serration is already enough Slash damage. Adding more Slash damage on top of that will decrease the chances of you landing the one Viral proc you need. Math below.

 

11 hours ago, InsomnIaC. said:

In practicality, you don't need more cold/toxin for more viral procs since you only need 1 proc to take effect and there are more than enough pellets in a fully-connected Tigris shot to apply that viral debuff. Stacking viral procs doesn't do anything either, unlike corrosive.

Slash is actually very desirable for the Viral-Radiation build since it increases the probability of slash procs occurring, which means more pellets proc slash for more finisher bleed damage. Since both Radiation and Viral elementals apply only one proc without stacking, you want as many of your pellets as possible to apply the slash proc.

 

7 hours ago, ThorienKELL said:

What? Nah, no way. Slash is good it's direct finisher damage, as more slash as possible please. 

Since each pellet proccs, you only need very tiny percent of viral, you only need *one* proc of viral cause multiple proccs are redundant. 

With the standard Slash-Viral build, you only have an 88.8% chance to land a Viral proc per shot, 98.8% chance per duplex, if all of your pellets hit. That's a 1 in 80 chance to fail to proc Viral per duplex.

Adding more Slash damage reduces this number. For example, replacing a 60% status-elemental mod (Heat or Electricity) with a Riven mod with +60% Slash and +60% status chance (no increase to multishot) reduces your chance to land a Viral proc to 85.5% per shot, 97.9% chance per duplex. That's a 1 in 47 chance to fail to proc Viral per duplex.

While it is nice to land more Slash procs, it's meaningless if you fail to land the one Viral proc. Landing one or two more Slash procs per shot is not worth the increased chance of failing to double the damage of all of your Slash procs.

The only time Slash on a Riven mod would be useful is if it also has an increase to multishot to offset the reduced probability of landing the crucial Viral proc.

 

10 hours ago, (PS4)vinster said:

- Prior to Rivens, I was running a 100% status Tigris Prime and was pretty happy with it.  With the current Tigris Riven I rolled, I do have increased damage across the board, but sacrificed one my dual-stat-status mods so that my status chance drops to around 99.4% I think. 

Is it still worth using the Riven or should I stick with a 100% status build.  I generally use my Tigris only against some sortie bosses (eg. Raptor) and higher level enemies like sortie Bursas, etc.

No. If the Tigris Prime is not at 100% status chance, it's not worth using over the Sancti Tigris.

Using only 3 60% status-elemental mods instead of 4 decreases the chance of a single pellet proccing a status from 100% to a mere 20.5%.

Here's the graph for shotgun status per pellet:

The Tigris Prime has 8 pellets base, so use the green "8" line. Notice just how steep the line is approaching 100%.

The x-axis is the weapon's status chance without multishot calculations, so that'll be 84% for the Tigris Prime with 3 60% status-elemental mods.

 

3 hours ago, InsomnIaC. said:

The actual number of corrosive procs to completely strip enemy armor is approximately 19 to 20, as evidenced by math: 0.75^19 = 0.0042283 or 0.75^20 = 0.0031712 .

At either of these values enemy armor is at <1% of original value and will likely be rounded down to 0, resulting in the complete armor stripping observed when the health bar transitions from yellow to red.

If memory serves, you need the enemy's armor down to less than 1, not less than 1%. Therefore, the number of Corrosive procs to completely remove an enemy's armor depends on the enemy type and enemy level.

Edited January 31, 2017 by Inarticulate
Fixing numbers

[InsomnIaC.]

28 minutes ago, Inarticulate said:

While it is nice to land more Slash procs, it's meaningless if you fail to land the one Viral proc. Landing one or two more Slash procs per shot is not worth the increased chance of failing to double the damage of all of your Slash procs.

If memory serves, you need the enemy's armor down to less than 1, not less than 1%. Therefore, the number of Corrosive procs to completely remove an enemy's armor depends on the enemy type and enemy level.

I stand corrected on the armor stripping point.

Still, in practicality, most top-tier Tigris rivens run with multishot anyway so you're talking 20-25 pellets per trigger pull, or 40-50 per duplex shot. At that time the chances for viral procs not occuring is less than 1%, regardless of added slash damage or not. Even without a multishot riven, most cases will see viral procs still occurring relatively frequently, so for practical purposes it's better to get more slash damage to ensure a faster kill.

[Robj414]

Currently have a multishot and elec riven for my tigris, have re-rolled around 15 times and still sitting on what I started with, keep getting flight speed on almost every roll.   :(

[-Apple-Pie-]

+Status, +Reload Speed, +Multishot. I have enough damage on Tigris)

[InsomnIaC.]

2 hours ago, mobilehacker said:

+Status, +Reload Speed, +Multishot. I have enough damage on Tigris)

And why would you want status on a 3 stat riven when it can't hit 53.4% to replace a 60/60? If it's not there it's as good as useless.

[(PSN)vinster]

Big thanks to InsomnIaC and Inarticulate for their detailed responses and I've reverted back to a 100% Tigris Prime build.  I've already bookmarked this page! :)

I'll still use my +Damage, +Multishot riven with either Blaze or Sweeping Serration depending on what I want to proc most.  This has also given me a better understanding on tweaking my other weapons as well.

Glad to see the helpfulness of the community.  Maybe we'll meet up at TennoCon 2017. :)

Edited January 31, 2017 by (PS4)vinster

[(PSN)vinster]

On 1/10/2017 at 4:41 PM, Inarticulate said:

For the Tigris Prime:

• Status chance above 53.4% to be able to replace a 60% status-elemental without losing 100% status chance

Is this 53.4% status chance value correct?

I got my hands on a good Tigris Riven today that has 44% status chance, and together with three other dual-status-element mods, I was able to reach 100% status (see attached).  The mod covered by the riven is Primed Point Blank.

I also confirmed with a rank 6 (45% status chance) dual-status-element mod with three other dual-status-element mods and was able to hit 100% status chance as well.

[Arcainyx]

You should be at 100% status without multishot mods.  If you remove your Hell's Chamber are you still at 100%?