Magnum Force compared to Hornet Strike.

[lukinu_u]

How you know, for rifle, shotgun and secondary weapons, there are 3 equivalent mods that add raw damages  (Serration, Point Blank and Hornet Strike) and 3 equivalent corrupted mods that add raw damages at the cost of accruacy (Heavy Caliber, Vicious Spread and Magnum Force.

• Serration add +165% damages and Heavy Caliber add +165% damages at the cost of -55% accruacy (same damage value for both).
• Point blank add +90% damages and Vicious Spread add +90% damages at the cost of +60% spread (same damage value for both).
• Hornet Strike add +220% damages BUT Magnum Force only add +66% damages at the cost of -33% accruacy (154% less than the non-corrupted mod).

Does anything can justifie it ?
With the lot of good mods we have, now the addition of Rivens and the 8 slots we have, do there is any reason to use this mod instead an elemental mod or one of the 2 multishot mod we have ?

Edited January 16, 2017 by lukinu_u

[NightmareT12]

I'm really not understanding neither why Magnum Force is that much weaker.

To be honest, except a few cases like Spoiled Strike, Heavy Caliber and one more I don't remember right now maybe the Corrupted Mods could use some more tweakings indeed.

[Xekrin]

20 minutes ago, lukinu_u said:

Does anything can justifie it ?

Perhaps the fact that secondary weapons get an additional multishot/fire rate mod that the other weapon types do not.  I don't know how the maths work but maybe it compensates the loss of the base damage in some way.

[(PSN)lhbuch]

Hornet Strike gives + 220% of your base Damage. 

So let use a base damage of 100.

- Base Damage x Hornet Strike = 320 - Additional 220. 

- Magnum force gives you + 66% of your base damage: 100 x 1,66 = 166. Additional 66.

Using Hornet Strike and Magnum gives you 386 damage - So using magnum force adds + 20% of the weapon damage when it already has hornet strike.

[Wyrmius_Prime]

32 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

I'm really not understanding neither why Magnum Force is that much weaker.

To be honest, except a few cases like Spoiled Strike, Heavy Caliber and one more I don't remember right now maybe the Corrupted Mods could use some more tweakings indeed.

I guess Magnum Force was made weak because Hornet Strike is already so strong, instead of nerfing Hornet Strike a bit and balancing their damage stats to be equal (compare to Serration and Heavy Caliber). Magnum Force was never worth using, because base damage mods are calculated off the base damage and elemental mods are calculated off base damage + base damage mods.

[lukinu_u]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)lhbuch said:

Hornet Strike gives + 220% of your base Damage. 

So let use a base damage of 100.

- Base Damage x Hornet Strike = 320 - Additional 220. 

- Magnum force gives you + 66% of your base damage: 100 x 1,66 = 166. Additional 66.

Using Hornet Strike and Magnum gives you 386 damage - So using magnum force adds + 20% of the weapon damage when it already has hornet strike.

+20% is nothing when you can :
- raise the damages from 320 to 527 by adding a single elemental mod,.
- To 1148 by adding all 4 elemental mods, and 1373 if you have a maxed primed heatet change.
- You can finally add Barrel Diffusion and Lethal Torrent to up multiply the current damages by 280%, restulting to 3844.4% of the base shot, plus more with a Riven giving damages than can go over +300%.
 

4 minutes ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

I guess Magnum Force was made weak because Hornet Strike is already so strong, instead of nerfing Hornet Strike a bit and balancing their damage stats to be equal (compare to Serration and Heavy Caliber). Magnum Force was never worth using, because base damage mods are calculated off the base damage and elemental mods are calculated off base damage + base damage mods.

Sure, but I dont see why adding a mod if it is not worth to use in any situation. Plus, multishot is better than base damage because indirectly increase status and crit chance.

[(PSN)lhbuch]

2 minutes ago, lukinu_u said:

+20% is nothing when you can :
- raise the damages from 320 to 527 by adding a single elemental mod,.
- To 1148 by adding all 4 elemental mods, and 1373 if you have a maxed primed heatet change.
- You can finally add Barrel Diffusion and Lethal Torrent to up multiply the current damages by 280%, restulting to 3844.4% of the base shot, plus more with a Riven giving damages than can go over +300%.
 

Sure, but I dont see why adding a mod if it is not worth to use in any situation. Plus, multishot is better than base damage because indirectly increase status and crit chance.

Yeah Magnum force is really bad. The added damage barelly justifies the accuracy loss. It is like using Magnum force could only be justified if you want the accuracy loss for some reason.

[Wyrmius_Prime]

2 minutes ago, lukinu_u said:

Sure, but I dont see why adding a mod if it is not worth to use in any situation. Plus, multishot is better than base damage because indirectly increase status and crit chance.

Half of the corrupted mods are plain bad or even DPS loss for some weapons. Multishot is also good because it multiplies every damage type on your gun

[(PSN)DBR87]

Yup, Magnum Force is a terrible waste of an asset... It has been for a while now. But most secondaries rely on Crit and multishot for damage much more than primaries do so even if magnum force was as good as Heavy Caliber, would we even have room for it?

Speaking of which, Vicious Spread really ain't that good, either...

[Ciaus]

1 hour ago, (PS4)DBR87 said:

Speaking of which, Vicious Spread really ain't that good, either...

Turns Tigris Prime into a crowd-clearing monster that wipes out corridors if you have punchthrough of any kind. A weapon like that has such high damage per pellet that additional spread / a reload mod are worthwhile. It also makes it easier to mod for heavy pure toxin / slash on corpus sorties.

[(PSN)DBR87]

40 minutes ago, Ciaus said:

Turns Tigris Prime into a crowd-clearing monster that wipes out corridors if you have punchthrough of any kind. A weapon like that has such high damage per pellet that additional spread / a reload mod are worthwhile. It also makes it easier to mod for heavy pure toxin / slash on corpus sorties.

Well if it only works on one weapon, that means the weapon is good, not the mod. A good mod is good on a lot of weapons. Otherwise, it's niche at best.

[Ciaus]

1 minute ago, (PS4)DBR87 said:

Well if it only works on one weapon, that means the weapon is good, not the mod. A good mod is good on a lot of weapons. Otherwise, it's niche at best.

That's fair, was just saying there is a place for it in the game at least :P
Haven't found one for Magnum Force that has convinced me. 

I certainly wouldn't mind vicious spread being buffed X'D 
* holds shotgun lovingly *

[taiiat]

just one of the cases where Digital Extremes tried to not give out 'too much' Power Creep at any one time.
with Secondary Weapons already being so nearly unilaterally superior to Primaries, Magnum Force given low values.

would be better to just not make the Mod at all then though.

On 1/16/2017 at 9:52 AM, (PS4)lhbuch said:

So let use a base damage of 100.

- Base Damage x Hornet Strike = 320 - Additional 220. 
- Magnum force gives you + 66% of your base damage: 100 x 1,66 = 166. Additional 66.

Using Hornet Strike and Magnum gives you 386 damage - So using magnum force adds + 20% of the weapon damage when it already has hornet strike.

 

er...

100 * (2.2 +1) == 320
100 * (2.2 + 0.66 +1) == 386

20.06% increased Base Damage.

i don't know where you got your values however - your math there doesn't talk about what question you are answering with the math at all. you ended up in the right place, but your road in the middle was in the wrong castle.

 

but - your Total Damage is still higher with putting another Elemental there instead of Magnum Force. it has always been a statistically useless Mod.

On 1/16/2017 at 2:41 PM, (PS4)DBR87 said:

Speaking of which, Vicious Spread really ain't that good, either...

it is, for when Fire Damage isn't useful for your current Enemies, or when you desire no Utility Mods and it isn't a Crit Shotgun and you therefore start to run out of Mods to put on.

it's not 'wow amazing' but that's fine since Players will opt to use it in some situations if they're actually trying to get the most Damage. more than can be said for far too many Mods.

granted, the value of Blaze or Vicious Spread has diminished because of P.Point Blank, but that's another matter entirely..... (and same goes for P.Pressure Point and Spoiled Strike)