DSkycroft Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 They made it very clear that they aren't planning on changing this. We need to show them that we aren't just gonna shut up about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Cynicaid Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Kind of curious about if they will update existing Helminth chargers to the new model when it comes out, or if we'll need to breed new ones. I don't want to have to make a second one later on. Also, I don't want to see Archwing being included in anything, let alone sorties. Those would just result in more "Skip" days. Especially when the "prizes" are as they are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesterTheNight Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 2 hours ago, PrimeDCookieMonstah said: I am just curious now, the song at 12:00 is from the Bard sound sequence device or it's just a background song? I kind of liked it. It's from the first Tenno Tunes contest, you can listen it here: https://soundcloud.com/warframedev/sets/tenno-tunes "8 Sybol - Indoctrination". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isochronic Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 New System tied to clans again? What about hema wasn't obvious in saying "before making some serous stuff tied with clans it may be a good idea to rework them properly"? I mean, if it scales with our clan size, there is going to be a sh_tstorm again. Why there is solomode in warframe if future looks like "meh, unless you play with at least 9 active players you aren't able to get X"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YpsitheFlintsider Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, DSkycroft said: They made it very clear that they aren't planning on changing this. We need to show them that we aren't just gonna shut up about this. That or just completely ignore the Hema, the Derelict, and everything related to this because frankly, DE's stubbornness is uncalled for. The whole Devstream left a sour taste in my mouth. All of the good content they put out, and the thing that I (and most people) remember is the Secura Lecta nerf and the fact that they reneged on their word to at least increase the drop percentages of mutagen samples. Edited January 21, 2017 by YpsitheFlintsider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone_Wolfen Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 3 hours ago, DSkycroft said: They made it very clear that they aren't planning on changing this. We need to show them that we aren't just gonna shut up about this. Amen. Their logic behind not changing the tables is flawed from the get go. Yeah the Derelict has a greater magnitude of mutagen drops when only one of seventeen other locations in the starmap has mutagen in its drop table, and even then it's a rare instead of uncommon, and even THEN that planet is at the absolute end of the starmap, leaving inexperienced players SOL when it comes to contributing. And what about the whole "we don't want to devalue the achievement of those who did fulfill the research requirements"? Did Steve personally PM clan leaders that did complete the research and ask if they were gonna be mad if Hema requirements were going to be lowered? I don't normally poke my head into the official forums but this is some next level shooting self in foot they're pulling with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Cynicaid Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 It wouldn't even remotely devalue the resources people put into it before if the cost was reduced or drop rate increased. They still would have had the weapon "early." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberghost135 Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 The sortie-exclusive Ayatan got me curious, how does it move and what name will the sculpture have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrymm Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 The interpretation of sortie population upon Riven introduction thing is really disappointing to me. The data clearly shows that sorties were played less and less. That means that without rewards, people don't participate in that content. To some degree, given the massive amount of reward content in this game, it does mean that people where moving to content with rewards that they had not obtained, but that's not all it meant. It means that endo and credits in amounts unobtainable elsewhere where not bringing people back to play it. In other words, people weren't playing them "for the fun of it". They still aren't. They're playing for the Rivens, plain and simple. Adding more rewards to shoehorn people into content that they won't play for the fun of it is detrimental to the game---and yes, I know full well that somebody is liable to come along and claim they did it for fun all along, but the graph presented clearly shows that the game population in general did no such thing. Rivens, regardless of anyones opinion of them, appear to be popular and desired. That doesn't mean that their means of acquisition is popular and desired, and a population increase in sorties should not be interpreted as such. So let's get this stuff available from other means already. Things that people want to play, things that people CHOOSE when they no longer need a reward from elsewhere. That is the magic content that makes the game tick, that's the stuff that needs to be continuously rewarding to play. Not the stuff that people wander away from once the loot sack has been pillaged---that stuff is a failure that should be discarded in terms of future development. All that said about abstract concepts like "fun" aside,I do applaud the new Ayatan from sorties. It's a strong reach into bringing interesting and unique rewards to the system, and in a way that can potentially be rewarding to obtain more than once. Stuff like this fleshing out the loot table is the right idea, in my opinion(alot of the other stuff like potatoes and boosters are great too, IMO, the problem is that they aren't a Riven mod and since we don't actually want to be there we've failed when we don't get one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIGHDAMAGE Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) 11 hours ago, John89brensen said: My clan requires 150k, and most of its members are new or mid game players. Should we kick them for not being able to contribute? is it their fault for being new players? is it the fault of the veterans for recruiting people? What happened to the social aspect of this game? To veterans giving out a hand to new players, be it with research or missions? As for the veterans in my clan, we dont have that amount of MS between all of us combined, nor do we have the intention of sitting in ODD for hours just to farm one riffle with a gimick. no you shouldn't kick new players its not theyr fault for being new, give them time to ''rank up'' wile explaining how the game works no one is rushing you about the research so take your time if you have no intention about it just let it go no one is forcing you if your seeking for cheese....... Spoiler What happened to the social aspect of this game? one research wont determine the social aspect of the game warframe comunity is one of the most social i have ever seen Edited January 21, 2017 by HIGHDAMAGE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maholix Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, Thrymm said: The interpretation of sortie population upon Riven introduction thing is really disappointing to me. Rivens, regardless of anyones opinion of them, appear to be popular and desired. That doesn't mean that their means of acquisition is popular and desired, and a population increase in sorties should not be interpreted as such. IMO, the problem is that they aren't a Riven mod. Since we don't actually want to be there, we've failed when we don't get one. Amen. Surely there are some people who do just enjoy them, but I outright don't want to do them and I know I am not alone. I can do just about any other mission in the game with my team and feel more rewarded. Something wrong with that. These are high end missions that can only be done once a day. They assume your geared, cost resources in the form of energy pads or w/e your team requires and are generally a huge headache. All for "aw darn, it's a resource I could've gotten elsewhere for less pain." Sure, the chance for better is there.. but these missions are not fun. They often leave you wondering why you didn't just run a surival or something. They just feel like a fancy wall, baited with goods, that you might see, maybe. It's not novel, it's annoying. I have alot of other things I could be doing with my time. It seems disingeniuos to handicap me for the sake of it, claim it's cuz it's some speical mission and then not pay out in kind when I do overcome the challege. Where's the sense of reward in that? What orginally drew me into WF was the sense of options. But there are none here. Want a rivan? Do this and hope. There is no way to increase your odds, no sense of achievement, no way to truly direct if the mod you get is even useful.. and then after all that effort, you have a cap set on how many I can hold? And that's for the reward everyone is after, let alone all the stuff we don't want. Look, I get this game is a lot of grind and RNG. And that works in regular missions. I can repeat them as I see fit. I can run them with the right frame. I can put the time in and earn things. That doesn't work for a daily sortie.. there is no earning process there, just a bunch of challenge walls and a drop that relies on plain luck. So to have a shot at the loot I want, I have to particpate in the sortie constantly, or lose out entirely. Doesn't mean I enjoy doing them. Overcoming a tough mission should feel good. It should feel like you achieved something. Before rivans, when seasons had specific loot, I ran them often, rarely missing a day and never once got enough BPs to build the featured weapon. I actually got so disgusted that I outright quit them after awhile. Now, even when I get a rivan, I have to do more challenges, hope it's for my wep and assuming it is, probably have to re-roll it. And that's IF I get it. I want to enjoy sorties. I want them to feel special. I hope DE does too. But where is my sense of achievement? Where is the fun mechanic that actually makes the map fun, so I don't care if I got my desired loot that time? Or for the matter, my ability to earn useful loot in the first place? Claiming the player base is liking sorties, just cuz there is something in them we may want is silly. Atm, sortie missions still need work. Edited January 21, 2017 by Maholix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xiaodenden Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Quote Network Not Responding Issues Some areas of the world were experiencing issues with “Network Not Responding” messages. It took us a while to track down the cause, but thank you to all of the Tenno in the community who helped us figure it all out! I appreciate that DE is trying to fix the Network Not Responding problem, but we haven't seen any improvement on our side of the world (SE Asia) yet. NNR is occurring just as frequently as previous few days/weeks. We would get at least one NNR per session and often get NNR at the result screen. Just about half an hour ago we finished the third sortie and it took over a minute before our account was updated. Then, we did an alert for Animal Instinct, and when we finished the mission, we got NNR at the result screen and then we got kicked out to the log in screen. Oh, I also noticed that today we're having trouble accessing warframe.com. Can we do anything to help? Should we send our EE.log to support and/or @[DE]Glen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John89brensen Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 5 hours ago, HIGHDAMAGE said: if you have no intention about it just let it go no one is forcing you If DE uses Hema research, in the future, as a gate for new research projects, then yeah, they are forcing me to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[DE]Taylor Posted January 21, 2017 Author Share Posted January 21, 2017 2 hours ago, John89brensen said: If DE uses Hema research, in the future, as a gate for new research projects, then yeah, they are forcing me to do it. The Devs stated last Devstream (and somewhat in this one) that we will be cognizant to not make research costs this extreme in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSkycroft Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 1 minute ago, [DE]Taylor said: The Devs stated last Devstream (and somewhat in this one) that we will be cognizant to not make research costs this extreme in the future. Does that mean that Hema will not be a requirement for any future research? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John89brensen Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, [DE]Taylor said: The Devs stated last Devstream (and somewhat in this one) that we will be cognizant to not make research costs this extreme in the future. That is not a denial of Hema research as a gate for future content. So it doesnt matter if you give away the next research for free (which we are not asking) if Hema is a mandatory step. Also, and i dont want to sound too antagonistic, but DE did say that they would consider, increasing MS drops, only to back out on the last devstream. Not even increasing MS drops on Eris, since "its raining MS in derelict". So please forgive me if i take statements as "not make research costs this extreme in the future" with a grain of salt. Edited January 21, 2017 by John89brensen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xekrin Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 6 minutes ago, [DE]Taylor said: The Devs stated last Devstream (and somewhat in this one) that we will be cognizant to not make research costs this extreme in the future. They said the same thing about Sibear and Vauban Prime, then we got Hema. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domesticon Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 9 minutes ago, [DE]Taylor said: The Devs stated last Devstream (and somewhat in this one) that we will be cognizant to not make research costs this extreme in the future. Hate to be a jerk about this, but yeah, you guys are blind here on the MS requirement. I will admit that I don't know what specifically is pushing this, maybe Steve is just really adamant on it for some reason, maybe a certain Chinese company is pressuring. Honestly, I don't know. But it stinks, something isn't right about this. I don't know what it is overall, but it needs to be minded carefully, you guys have really captured the Carrot instead of the Stick for getting people to pay you money, but the Hema is far out of line with that, honestly, much like the Sibear it reeks as a "F You, Pay me." thing, which is not the usual for you guys. You guys need to be careful about this and ensure it stops before you damage trust with the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniDax Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, [DE]Taylor said: The Devs stated last Devstream (and somewhat in this one) that we will be cognizant to not make research costs this extreme in the future. That really doesn't address what he was saying, like, at all. You can make a new research item as low in required resources as possible, but if that research depends on a Hema prerequisite, then you're still forcing players to complete the Hema research first. If some new Biolab research item requires 0 resources to build, and yet the Hema research is a prerequisite for that new Biolab research item, then you're forcing players to complete the Hema research first. That is what he was saying. So I'll ask: Will DE commit to NOT making the Hema research a prerequisite for any future Biolab research item? (Hint: it's a yes or no or I don't know question) Understand that players are asking you (DE) about this because they don't trust you. And decisions like this one regarding the Hema cost, and statements like "It's raining mutagen in the Derelict" by someone who has only just now started playing his own game, erode the trust between DE and the community. Please refer to the comment above and below this one for examples of what I'm talking about. Edited January 21, 2017 by AntoineFlemming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bl4ckhunter Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 23 minutes ago, [DE]Taylor said: The Devs stated last Devstream (and somewhat in this one) that we will be cognizant to not make research costs this extreme in the future. Political answer at it's finest, not only you did not answer his question at all, as the hema research being a requirement for some future weapon and future weapons having research costs in line with the hema are not connected issues but you've also avoided committing to not actually make research costs this high in the future as "being cognizant" of something doesn't imply that you won't do it all the same as far as my understanding of english goes even without taking into account that you've promised that very same thing multiple times and done it again and again regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniDax Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 16 hours ago, A.Rosen said: New System tied to clans again? What about hema wasn't obvious in saying "before making some serous stuff tied with clans it may be a good idea to rework them properly"? I mean, if it scales with our clan size, there is going to be a sh_tstorm again. Why there is solomode in warframe if future looks like "meh, unless you play with at least 9 active players you aren't able to get X"? Because DE wants all players to buy plat (because more people buying plat means more money coming in, and every business wants money), but if they make everything plat only, then they can't claim to be free to play. So they allow players to farm items but make the grind miserable or the clan research costs insurmountable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cradicias Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Having been with this game for a long time and seeing all different levels of grind required, I can safely say that the Hema is unreasonable in its resource cost. The fact that some clans have already researched it doesn't mean it should be left as is. Instead, they should have their resources refunded so that they can then redo the research at the discounted cost. I love Warframe, but this is a bad move. The fact that so many people are telling you so should be a signal that "we goofed, we need to fix this" not give excuses as to why it's staying the way it is. Just because some people have huge stores of materials doesn't mean that should be the scale upon which you measure, especially as there was never a reason to farm up THAT many Mutagen Samples before. My clan has several members who used the Derelict Defense as their XP farm for quite some time cause they found it easy for them, and you know how far we are in the research with their hefty contribution? Just over half. And that's with me and others joining in the farm up Mutagen Samples AFTER the Hema was released. There is a serious issue here that needs to be addressed. Either the cost of the Hema needs to be lowered and those that contributed to the higher cost refunded, or the drop rate and drop size needs to be drastically increased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trichouette Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 1 hour ago, [DE]Taylor said: The Devs stated last Devstream (and somewhat in this one) that we will be cognizant to not make research costs this extreme in the future. And yet they won't fix their mistake because they want to "honour the players who farmed it" What about the people who farmed archwing content ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkhenbarn Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 1 hour ago, [DE]Taylor said: The Devs stated last Devstream (and somewhat in this one) that we will be cognizant to not make research costs this extreme in the future. Then ask them, what about being cognizant of the situation right now ? About the fire they set ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domesticon Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Trichouette said: And yet they won't fix their mistake because they want to "honour the players who farmed it" What about the people who farmed archwing content ? Using that logic, what about the players who farmed/bought the Secura Lecta? Sure aren't "honoring" the players who got that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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