The Archwing "Problem"

[Kiradien]

In the Devstream, they spoke of fixing Archwing, but they also didn't have a clear direction on how to fix it - the trouble is, from my point of view Archwing is close to being "right", but a partial fix could just make things worse.

As someone who once enjoyed Archwing, and enjoys 6DOF games, I want to offer my opinion, and potentially spark a conversation regarding this and its issues.

 

HUD

Below I will include potential previews of what I mean - I am no artist, and I'd have better luck actually breaking into the games UI to put it in than photoshopping it, but Warframe doesn't allow 3rd party UI mods, so bare with me. Colours were chosen to make the elements stand out as an example, not to look good.

Relative Vertical Orientation indicator - the biggest issue with Archwing 6DoF is that the high pace causes people to lose track of their orientation. This disorientation has a tendency to make people sick, and we need something to orient ourselves to. Simply knowing our relative vertical Orientation at all times would cut down our perspective - though space has no "up" or "down" persay, we do start with one orientation.

A simple example would be either an unobtrusive arrow around the crosshair, or a horizon line. Both options can be seen in these pictures working in conjunction:

Orientation1 Orientation2

3 Dimensional Map/Map Z-Axis rotation - In an ideal world, a 3D map would be an ultimate solution, but the development cost of that could be quite prohibitive. If instead, our 2D map could collapse and reverse on the Z-Axis depending on our orientation, it could allow us to maintain directional consistency between the Map and the game world regardless of our orientation. Perfecting this could be extremely difficult, and may not help as much as other alternatives, however it could help in some cases, especially for players with Fixed Map Rotation.

Calculated direction indicator - In space, our momentum is maintained far more than on land, which can disorient players, particularly at high speeds. If there was an optional indicator, displaying the direction the player is being pulled in contrast to where their crosshair is pointing, it could help players compensate, and allow more players to enjoy flying through at high speed. It would only really be visible during/after a turn, or while strafing, but with live updates it could drastically improve navigation. If preserving skill is a concern, it could be made a passive of the Odonata Archwing, as a kind of training wheels.

 

Gameplay

These gameplay options are a bit more situational - whether they would have any real impact is impossible for me to judge, but I will include them none-the-less.

Archwing "Second Chance" - Part of the issue with Archwing is Exposure - there's not enough of an advantage to do it, but people hate being forced to do Archwing. That said, I think the original Archwing mission actually has the solution. In Mobile Defense, Interception, and Sabotage missions, it is possible to fail, but they have an Archwing counterpart. If continuing the mission from Archwing could be situationally given as a second chance after failing the mission, or partially succeeding, it would give us a benefit to having Archwing levelled up in regular missions.

Option Missions: Warframes & Archwings Side by Side - If there were an Archwing mission where players could complete all, or most of the mission with or without the archwing, giving the player the option to switch between the two, it could both be really fun, and raise interest interest in Archwing by placing the two side by side working together in a mission. The perfect tileset for this would be the Kuva Fortress, but it would need a new mission type all its own.

 

These are my opinions on what could fix Archwing, I believe Archwing still has potential to be a fun game mode for everyone, it just can't be forced on us. Opinions?

[Sintag]

5 minutes ago, Kiradien said:

Option Missions: Warframes & Archwings Side by Side - If there were an Archwing mission where players could complete all, or most of the mission with or without the archwing, giving the player the option to switch between the two, it could both be really fun, and raise interest interest in Archwing by placing the two side by side working together in a mission. The perfect tileset for this would be the Kuva Fortress, but it would need a new mission type all its own.

No, not really.  Just give us some free space segments as well, say, hopping from one small asteroid base to another, landing and deploying at our own leisure, in Exterminate.  Or an Interception where points A and B require archwing to get to, if they're not just directly in space.  

 

Make transitions from archwing to land faster, as well, and add some means of knowing which way is truly 'down', I.E: Give us a way to reorient ourselves at the press of a button.

 

That's a few of my ideas anyway.

[Katinka]

29 minutes ago, Kiradien said:

Relative Vertical Orientation indicator - the biggest issue with Archwing 6DoF is that the high pace causes people to lose track of their orientation. This disorientation has a tendency to make people sick, and we need something to orient ourselves to. Simply knowing our relative vertical Orientation at all times would cut down our perspective - though space has no "up" or "down" persay, we do start with one orientation.

A simple example would be either an unobtrusive arrow around the crosshair, or a horizon line. Both options can be seen in these pictures working in conjunction:

Orientation1 Orientation2

Looking at those two pictures actually made me feel more ill than playing Archwing ever has.  It might be partly because one of them has the horizon line not matching the lines of the Corpus ship that I'm used to aligning to so it made it more disorientating rather than less as I had two conflicting points of reference.  In open space (aka Grineer) missions it might work better. 

Personally, I was happy with the old movement with fixed up and down.  Yes, space doesn't have up and down but we mostly aren't in the vast open space.  We are flying through Corpus ships that very much do have an up and a down and even in the Grineer asteroid field maps there are objects around us to gain orientation from (including the enemies themselves that always maintain a consistant orientation).  In my mind the unlocking of our orientation caused far more trouble than it was worth and also served to distance Archwing further from the base game.  Originally Archwing was just like some new frames and weapons that played in a special set of flying missions.  The basic game mechanics were the same but you didn't fall after jumping.  I fell that the more complex movement has made Archwing less accessible both by making it disorientating and by distancing it from normal gameplay.

[John89brensen]

The UI clearly needs to be reworked, a horizon line, speed, heading, and angle should also be in the UI. Pretty much something similar to an airplane heads up display.

The mini-map too needs to be done from scratch, but like i said in a previous post, a simple "radar" map like the one used in the Ace Combat series would be more than enough. Of course this map needs to display enemy position and direction from the start, it shouldnt have to be modded in.

As for the missions, i think the main problem with them is that they play very similar to groundframe, and are not nearly as rewarding. A more unique type of combat would be required, instead you play the same types of missions you play normally, against spaceborne hordes of enemies (as opposed to ground based hordes). Many missions have you standing still defending a static place, something that goes both against the premise of the setting (fast moving attack spacecraft) and the physics of objects in space. 

Like interception, it has you deffending 4 static places in the middle of space, against a very mobile swarm of enemy space ships, with little cover to help you. It also makes little sense, wouldnt the enemy destroy the satelites before risking the Tenno capturing important information? And when the Lotus orders you to kill the enemy ships so they dont report back, those ships have radios, and its not like the enemy will forget losing 200 attack ships that were guarding a relay station.

Why not have the players intercept a flight of enemy spaceships, say on a bombing mission to some colony, a limited number of tougher enemies, or even a small vessel like a destroyer, supported by its airwing. You know, an actual interception.

 

More transitions from normal missions into AW, and from AW into normal missions would be awesome (like in the AW trailer).

Also another thing is rewards, DE removed all the weapon/archwing parts from the drop tables, so there is no incentive to play AW. Have it give an increased amount of endo, or more credits, because im certainly not playing for an Ammo Drum.

Aside from the control/collision problems with AW, i think the main problem, the one that the 2016 "overhaul" didnt address, is that AW plays to similar to groundframe, its not a separate game mode in its own right.

 

Edited January 21, 2017 by John89brensen

[Red_Bones]

48 minutes ago, Sintag said:

No, not really.  Just give us some free space segments as well, say, hopping from one small asteroid base to another, landing and deploying at our own leisure, in Exterminate.  Or an Interception where points A and B require archwing to get to, if they're not just directly in space.  

Make transitions from archwing to land faster, as well, and add some means of knowing which way is truly 'down', I.E: Give us a way to reorient ourselves at the press of a button.

That's a few of my ideas anyway.

These are really good suggestions dude, thank you - the mixing of the modes is the best fix at the moment, without having to make significant changes to the gameplay of Archwing at its core.

If we could be playing a mission with grounded and Archwing enemies concurrently, and then move between mission sections using Archwing, or completing side objectives with it, then we could still spend most of the time playing on the ground - where we get a better sense of fighting from cover, using environmental abilities, and moving through space with jumps and parkour. 6DoF is fundamentally problematic when compared with ground combat because you get a lesser sense of dynamic and engaging movement, and the scale creates a sense of sparseness, not an expanse at the moment.

Faster transitions is good too, because the current jolting switch and twist is a bit clunky - an slower glide between the immediate preceding space and the ground while you go through the transformation, and for sharkwing, a similar arced glide - both with the capability to slide upon hitting the ground instead of hitting the ground with a smash - will mean you feel much better about making the transition all the time.

[(PSN)kombatchamp]

The first AW update they did addressed some control issues which was good and we got a mad over boost function that was awesome. Overall though and thankfully it was a good thing, they didn't play too much with the control setup. Then they did another AW update and that was when they made it worse. With the rework they did they reversed the X-axis control settings and you can't change it back. So for those of us who like to fly like a pilot with direction down being up and direction forward being nose down it makes things harder as when on the ground the camera controls respond as they should. There is an old saying "if it ain't broke don't fix it" and by trying to fix something that only needed minor tweaks they made enjoying AW missions into hating them.

The map for the AW doesn't need much work, if anything the map works well depending on the mission type. For intercept and mobile defence its clear....for sabotage and even exterminate it can be hard sometimes and you can turn left at the wrong fork instead of going straight.

They could use an auto level system if you stand idle for a few seconds, or simple little arrows to indicate which way is up etc. I remember the AW intercept mission that was an earth tile set....you could get up to level 20 by yourself if you timed each node correctly and captured them in a certain order and then recaptured them when you needed to. With the control and camera setup that they have now for the AW its far harder to play. Either they should revert back to the original control mode and leave it or give us the option of what control setup we want. Like they do with COD type games where you can select from up to 5 presets of control layout and camera configurations therefore giving the player the choice as to what layout they want to use rather than us being forced to use one that we can't use.

Also before the overhaul of the star map system, you could clearly tell which AW mission tile sets from ground missions with the AW wings as the icon.

As far as diversity is concerned they had the right idea with the underwater tile sets on Uranus. Even if you didn't have the AW yet you could still do the mission and when you jumped in the water the AW would just appear. I know that comes down to animation and programming. I have stated this before that the AW if put into the game correctly could be a means of transport. So lets say you are a new player and have decided to go with the Excalibur warframe and once you have gotten past the initial tutorial stages of the game and then decide you want to finish off earth and one of the first missions is an AW intercept/ext and you finish the mission and the mission summary comes up, you are presented with 2 options; finish mission or continue flying. You then fly towards earth and it gives you another option.....a window comes up with the available earth ground missions and you can then fly to earth via AW, land and then start the next mission seamlessly. Another one could be you are doing a AW sabotage that sends you inside a corpus ship to take out its reactor a la star wars style...lol and then as you get out from the ship as it starts to explode you fly towards a corpus ship in orbit and you are presented with the mission for that tile set as some of the tile sets are inside corpus or grineer ships. Of course you would have to ask the rest of your team if they want to as well or just like when on the liset and you are selecting the mission they can decline and you can continue if you want to. This would then open up to all sorts of scenarios as you could have ships falling apart around you, or in some cases already in pieces (infested ships) and ordis could deploy the AW at your request and then start an AW mission if the planet has the tile sets.

How you may ask do we get the first AW without mining for it? Well simple the odonata should be made available from the start. To solve the AW quest issue, simply make the second AW the one we have to find or the odonata prime.

Granted DE is a great job and in some ways even they are getting bogged down in the beast that has become warframe. I do hope that any future updates has AW elements in them even if its a control change back to the first AW update.

[Othergrunty]

A major problem i have with Archwing is that ever since they introduced the 6DOF controlls, which i recall several people had demanded or asked for even before Archwing was released, is that i can't see clearly anymore what they actualy want Archwing to be.

The new controlls are too clunky and limited for a good full movement experience and the Warframe animations aren't even suited for it. The former ruins the experience of all Corpus tilsets and makes the new chase mode very frustrating. The later is noticable when you move at high speed with the Warframe to the side while keeping aim on an enemy, not only does the Warframe remain stiff as a board, but you can shoot in a direction your gun isn't facing. You can shoot in the opposite direction of where your gun is facing, through your character.

Likewise the UI, directly transplated from the regular on foot combat just isn't suited for it either.

Finaly the whole thing, Warframe's with jetpacks attached, just isn't suited for a good old space combat simulation. Same with the weapon loadout and design. It was fine for Zero G infantry combat. Which is where the old controlls were shining. But at the moment it all looks half hearted.

So what is Archwing supposed to be used for? Cinematic entrance animations for quest? Free movement combat? Zero G mid mission sequences?

[(PSN)kombatchamp]

19 hours ago, Othergrunty said:

A major problem i have with Archwing is that ever since they introduced the 6DOF controlls, which i recall several people had demanded or asked for even before Archwing was released, is that i can't see clearly anymore what they actualy want Archwing to be.

The new controlls are too clunky and limited for a good full movement experience and the Warframe animations aren't even suited for it. The former ruins the experience of all Corpus tilsets and makes the new chase mode very frustrating. The later is noticable when you move at high speed with the Warframe to the side while keeping aim on an enemy, not only does the Warframe remain stiff as a board, but you can shoot in a direction your gun isn't facing. You can shoot in the opposite direction of where your gun is facing, through your character.

Likewise the UI, directly transplated from the regular on foot combat just isn't suited for it either.

Finaly the whole thing, Warframe's with jetpacks attached, just isn't suited for a good old space combat simulation. Same with the weapon loadout and design. It was fine for Zero G infantry combat. Which is where the old controlls were shining. But at the moment it all looks half hearted.

So what is Archwing supposed to be used for? Cinematic entrance animations for quest? Free movement combat? Zero G mid mission sequences?

Its not much fun on console either as I stated in my other post they have taken so much away from the player via the control setup. The whole point of the AW missions was to add a bit more fun and diversity to the game and they did exactly that with the second update for the AW. It was perfect....and then they had to go and stuff it up.

[Culaio]

I must say that people in this thread make a loot of good points and have really good ideas, and I must agree with most of them.

19 hours ago, Othergrunty said:

A major problem i have with Archwing is that ever since they introduced the 6DOF controlls, which i recall several people had demanded or asked for even before Archwing was released, is that i can't see clearly anymore what they actualy want Archwing to be.

The new controlls are too clunky and limited for a good full movement experience and the Warframe animations aren't even suited for it. The former ruins the experience of all Corpus tilsets and makes the new chase mode very frustrating. The later is noticable when you move at high speed with the Warframe to the side while keeping aim on an enemy, not only does the Warframe remain stiff as a board, but you can shoot in a direction your gun isn't facing. You can shoot in the opposite direction of where your gun is facing, through your character.

Likewise the UI, directly transplated from the regular on foot combat just isn't suited for it either.

Finaly the whole thing, Warframe's with jetpacks attached, just isn't suited for a good old space combat simulation. Same with the weapon loadout and design. It was fine for Zero G infantry combat. Which is where the old controlls were shining. But at the moment it all looks half hearted.

So what is Archwing supposed to be used for? Cinematic entrance animations for quest? Free movement combat? Zero G mid mission sequences?

Threads asking for 6DoF showed on forums almost every week, I was one of people asking for it and for really good reason, combat in archwing always felt very static compared to combat on the ground, yes you moved toward enemy then mashed melee button(which was extremly boring to me) when you used melee but when using long range combat you were pretty much standing still while shooting everything around, you are pretty much floating turret. enemies always moved in straight line toward they target so if you were that target(or you were near target) you didnt really have to do anything other then shot, for this reason me and other people really want to see space dog fights in archwing, chassing enemy, being chased by enemy and so on, simply making combat much more mobile, we still dont have but archwing pursuit mission shows that DE can do it.

It is true that DE doesnt seem to know what it wants archwing to be and truth is that  community is also guilty of this, when looking at threads about archwing I see people giving different ideas(frequently oposite of each other, some people wanting archwing to be more like ground combat while others less) how how archwing should play/look, I myself I am guilty of this, I was giving ideas before of making archwing more like strike suit zero, idea of  having dual movement modes between we could switch on the fly:

-faster but less precise movement for open space and long straight corridors(something similar to new movement with some changes)

-slower but more precise movement for corpus maps with all the tight turns(something like old movement but also with some changes)

here is how dual movement mods look in SSZ(strike suit zero):

DE on other hand based archwing on ZOE(zone of the enders), which isnt problem by itself, ZOE is pretty great game which lots of fans but the thing is that gameplay from ZOE was adapted to warframe gamestyle in not so good way, there are some fundamental differences between types of combat in warframe and ZOE,which made archwing inferior version of ZOE.

In ZOE we are mostly focused on fighting smaller number of enemies but who are stronger then enemies in archwing, so melee combat in ZOE is more interactive since it takes few hits to kill enemy also there is one HUGE difference between ZOE and archwing, since ZOE has less enemies it extensivly uses lock on function which lets us to strafe all around enemy very quickly, which makes ZOE melee combat MUCH more interactive.

Archwing being based on ZOE is also reason why long range combat in archwing is so static, ZOE is mostly melee combat focused game, it has long range weapon but its mostly used to distract enemy, it deals MUCH less damage then melee weapon, it would take you a long time to defeat enemy from long range which is why it needs to be used together with melee weapon if you want to defeat enemy quickly.

zone of the enders gameplay:

 

When I was giving in the past idea of archwing having space dog fights I already predicted problem of shooting looking weird while "sprinting", since there is no good way to hold weapon if you have body in straight position(like superman), so I come up with possible solution: during sprinting we wouldnt hold weapon in hand instead it would be attached to archwing(like when weapons are stored there when not in use) but weapon would be rotated pointing with weapon barrel forward and would shot it from there, I know our character wouldnt be able to touch trigger in this position but we are in the future there is not reason why we could interface with weapon through our archwing.

It would look kinda like this:

 

Edited January 23, 2017 by Culaio

[Zookes]

Archwing is mostly UI troubles. Enemy indicators being unreliable and so small, no indicators for vessel status and orientation, etc.

The flight model is OK, tho dodging obstacles up/down relative to the viewport seems unreliable and annoying with high FOV.

[(PSN)kombatchamp]

Well we all know that DE does check the forums and no doubt they probably have an idea that we are not happy with the AW control rework. So in having said that, I do hope that there is an update coming for the AW in the future. Even if its a hotfix that is only a small update without affecting the rest of the game.

Speaking of control setups like I mentioned in my other post...why not have some presets for AW controls too?

Ground combat controls are pretty much as they should be and really don't need any more work.

Still there is a lot of room for improvement and DE would be aware of this as they do listen to the gamers.

On a side note; if anyone has seen the guyver movie then they would know that the armour comes out of the back of the neck. Well can't we have the AW do something similar when jumping into the water on Uranus? Instead of the neck though for obvious reasons, why not from around the waist? Therefore making the AW harness like a belt and it sits around the warframes waist sort of tucked away.

[Culaio]

11 hours ago, (PS4)kombatchamp said:

Well we all know that DE does check the forums and no doubt they probably have an idea that we are not happy with the AW control rework. So in having said that, I do hope that there is an update coming for the AW in the future. Even if its a hotfix that is only a small update without affecting the rest of the game.

Speaking of control setups like I mentioned in my other post...why not have some presets for AW controls too?

Ground combat controls are pretty much as they should be and really don't need any more work.

Still there is a lot of room for improvement and DE would be aware of this as they do listen to the gamers.

On a side note; if anyone has seen the guyver movie then they would know that the armour comes out of the back of the neck. Well can't we have the AW do something similar when jumping into the water on Uranus? Instead of the neck though for obvious reasons, why not from around the waist? Therefore making the AW harness like a belt and it sits around the warframes waist sort of tucked away.

I didnt expect to see people still remembering guyver movie, when I was younger I really loved the movie :), I think your idea is pretty good for how archwing could show up, we already have operator showing up in unique way from inside of frame.

I personally wouldnt mind if we had archwing compressed to smaller form on our frame permamently, as small mechanical "backback" on our lower back but I am pretty sure all fashionframe loving people wouldnt like that.

By the way someone long time ago designed fan concept of infested archwing, it was mostly done for typhus frame fanconcept but someone send the pic to someone from DE, and response was:

GooseDE:

"Ok I guess infested Archwing needs to be made."

here is concept of infested archwing I am talking about:

Of course we cant take seriously DE response especially since it was long time ago but idea of infested archwing is very interesting, especially with infested room in our ship there are cool possibilities, like getting it by growing it on our frame(either nidus or any frame) we could get it same way we get cyst, sit on chair, get stabbed, either in lower back(which would be cooler) or like normal in neck(since infestation could most likely travel inside of body of our frame into lower back area) and like with cyst archwing would slowly grow on our lower back over course of few days.

[(XBOX)ZenithLord 42]

I just wish Archwing had roll because too many times I end up "upside-down" and the only way to reorient yourself is to turn to my left or right and then push up on the aim stick to flip over. 

I love the 6Dof, but I don't feel like I'm as mobile as I should be. When I move in space I should continue at that same velocity until I push the thrusters in the opposite direction. 

Too many times I've been going full speed, in for a kill, for my momentum to suddenly stop just so I can avoid one rock. I know Archwing has a "roll" feature, but that is only while you're boosting... 

I also wish you could actually use your Archwing during some tile set missions such as the Kuva Fortress and have it be optional unlike Uranus where the Archwing is mandatory for some missions. All that "space" in the Kuva Fortress keeps calling my name and I want to explore it, but alas. 

[MystMan]

55 minutes ago, (Xbox One)ZenithLord 42 said:

I just wish Archwing had roll

For PC there are roll keys now. (Unassigned by default, check key bindings).  I don't know about consoles. 

If it's not there, does this old trick work for consoles?  It doesn't for PC anymore since roll got new input keys.

 

[CarrotSalad]

My following comments on Archwing are based on my experience in space. Not underwater.

The roll keys require me to bring archwing to a complete stop to actually work. My biggest issue though is when i hit superboost(space button). It seems to jump(climb altitude) and go forward at the same time. Which means i Boost into the ceiling allot when im aiming just to go forward faster. I'm starting to think it might be a bug with the actual controls.

On 23/01/2017 at 6:18 PM, Culaio said:

I was giving in the past idea of archwing having space dog fights I already predicted problem of shooting looking weird while "sprinting", since there is no good way to hold weapon if you have body in straight position(like superman), so I come up with possible solution:

In Robotech they made the actual suit(warframe) rotate around while the jetpack(Archwing) keeps on course. Robotech had 3x modes jet (speed+manuvrability) mode, combat mode (Manuevrability+combat) and walk mode(combat). Our current archwing seems suited to Manueverability+combat.

I've gotten used to the 6dof controls in open space tiles, but in the trench runs its a different story. Pressing space button causes the archwing+jump bug so often that i cant wrap my head around it. My preferred archwing experience was pre- 6dof changes.

[Chipputer]

The true way to fix archwing is to put it back to the old way it controlled. Oh, and then fix Amesha making the party immortal because that's some crazy broken stuff, mang.

[Culaio]

8 hours ago, CarrotSalad said:

My following comments on Archwing are based on my experience in space. Not underwater.

The roll keys require me to bring archwing to a complete stop to actually work. My biggest issue though is when i hit superboost(space button). It seems to jump(climb altitude) and go forward at the same time. Which means i Boost into the ceiling allot when im aiming just to go forward faster. I'm starting to think it might be a bug with the actual controls.

In Robotech they made the actual suit(warframe) rotate around while the jetpack(Archwing) keeps on course. Robotech had 3x modes jet (speed+manuvrability) mode, combat mode (Manuevrability+combat) and walk mode(combat). Our current archwing seems suited to Manueverability+combat.

I've gotten used to the 6dof controls in open space tiles, but in the trench runs its a different story. Pressing space button causes the archwing+jump bug so often that i cant wrap my head around it. My preferred archwing experience was pre- 6dof changes.

Yeah there indeed seem to be a problem of going up while boosting.

Do you by any chance have link to video with how it looked in robotech ?

Trench runs indeed are problem which makes sense seeing title set was made for old movement.

 

5 hours ago, Chipputer said:

The true way to fix archwing is to put it back to the old way it controlled. Oh, and then fix Amesha making the party immortal because that's some crazy broken stuff, mang.

Reversing changes to movement isnt really solution but DE said there is chance that they will give us option to use old movement. 

You are right about amesha being broken.

[CarrotSalad]

41 minutes ago, Culaio said:

Do you by any chance have link to video with how it looked in robotech ?

For a long time i thought the rising, while boost was intentional. i realised a few days ago that it doesnt always go in the up direction while boosting which makes me certain its a bug and not supposed to be rising.

Here's the robotech video.

 

 

[venon23]

how too fix AW  easy
scrap the new control mechanics and give us the old ones witch i realy enjoy
give more missions enter leave AW (not quests only)

give over all more missions of AW that can be open map or close   

im still waiting for the formorian assacination the never came up  (only as event of comunity)

 

AND WAY THE HELL AW MAKES DRIFT

Edited January 25, 2017 by venon23

[VakarisJ]

On 1/21/2017 at 2:47 AM, Kiradien said:

3 Dimensional Map/Map Z-Axis rotation - In an ideal world, a 3D map would be an ultimate solution, but the development cost of that could be quite prohibitive. If instead, our 2D map could collapse and reverse on the Z-Axis depending on our orientation, it could allow us to maintain directional consistency between the Map and the game world regardless of our orientation. Perfecting this could be extremely difficult, and may not help as much as other alternatives, however it could help in some cases, especially for players with Fixed Map Rotation.

A 3D minimap is easier then you think. It can simply be the flat square it is now, just with it's roll locked to the player's roll. The minimap doesn't have to move, just the dots on it have to change their position. To show whenever an item is higher or lower then you, a line can be drawn to the spot on the minimap that they're supposed to be represented by. Kind of what like you'd see in Elite Dangerous.

[(PSN)kombatchamp]

On 25/01/2017 at 2:28 AM, Culaio said:

I didnt expect to see people still remembering guyver movie, when I was younger I really loved the movie :), I think your idea is pretty good for how archwing could show up, we already have operator showing up in unique way from inside of frame.

I personally wouldnt mind if we had archwing compressed to smaller form on our frame permamently, as small mechanical "backback" on our lower back but I am pretty sure all fashionframe loving people wouldnt like that.

 

Well the harness could be made into a belt and therefore made as part of the fashion side of customizing. That or it folds into the syndana but I don't see the AW folding away into the syndana it would just look well....wrong.

We could easily customize one of two ways but knowing DE they might do the simpler one. First one could be at the arsenal window under the AW tab where you customize your AW and you can preview it.

The other one would be at the arsenal window and simply under appearance where the syndana's, warframe armor etc is, could be AW belt. In the most simplistic non over thought way possible it would just be the front and back part of the harness morphed into a belt. So when we go into the water on uranus or drop into during the war within quest the belt would expand/fold out and the wings for the AW would be there ready to go.

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

Reviving people is often a death sentence in archwing and it needs to be fixed, both how difficult it can be to even get close enough to do it and the fact you can blink and just be dead. The only way I think would be to add archwing versions of sentinels and the only reason I propose that is because it introduces a grind which no doubt they love but could also give you abilities to either self revive halfway to limit the take needed for someone to revive you or creates a barrier for someone to swoop in and hopefully revive you before it is down, maybe fire some emp that temporarily shuts everything down in the area for a bit, I dunno.

Also--someone seriously needs to play archwing. I don't believe any single one of them did that archwing racing mission and came out thinking it fun and or didn't find themselves spun upside down to where they were forced to complete it that way rather than pause and wait for the character to slowly right itself. 

[Detheris]

On 21/01/2017 at 11:47 AM, Kiradien said:

-snip-

Orientation is Horrendous

I came here to say..
We really need a key binding to reset the vertical camera orientation to "upright" (or to flip 180degrees vertically regardless of orientation)

The roll left/right key binds sort of fit this purpose atm but its not really explained well for "new players"

 

Alot of the general map problems are resolved when you lock the hud rotation and just focus on pointing your triangle towards the objective/area to go..

Takes a while to get used to locked map if you havent played with it before and it is definantly worse than a proper 3D map that rotates as the player does. However it makes it far more easy to identify when you're upside-down because the triangle will turn the wrong way when you move left/right.

 

In archwing's current form the only way to actually turn is horizontally or vertically for the entire turn, if you perform a 180 degree vertical turn and then turn around by rotating 180degrees horizontally well.. congrats you're now upside down with no indicator that you've done so..

If i lost you, basically, they accidentally perform this maneuver, which in combat will happen more often than you'd expect due to tracking enemies via the sides of your screen instead of the minimap.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/m4ag6778ozhq17t/2017-01-27_02-54-14.mp4

After doing ^ you can fix your orientation by using the roll keybind

 

 

I'd also like to mention that in all the open space areas picking up items is extremely unreliable unless you only use a melee weapon, the pickup range needs a huge increase in archwing mode. I wouldnt even care if it came in mod form at this point im beyond sick of using only melee weapons when farming for mods and tellerium.

^^That or make ALL dropped items in archwing mode GLOW so they're more visible at the insanely long ranges archwing is played at or just give us a full radar (also wouldnt care if it was in mod form or not..)

Edited January 26, 2017 by Detheris

[Culaio]

On 25.01.2017 at 0:38 PM, CarrotSalad said:

For a long time i thought the rising, while boost was intentional. i realised a few days ago that it doesnt always go in the up direction while boosting which makes me certain its a bug and not supposed to be rising.

Here's the robotech video.

 

 

Interesting but doesnt exactly resolve problem of shooting looking weird while "sprinting" since in the video weapon is one handed while archwing weapons are two handed which is what makes shooting  look wierd, its hard to shot forward while your arms are in straight forward position to your body(like superman has while flying, imagine superman shooting with machine gun while flying) since you couldnt see anything other then your arms, this is why I thought it would be better if weapon was attached to archwing while we sprint.

It would be cool/useful if we had lock-on function like in your video though.

12 hours ago, (PS4)kombatchamp said:

Well the harness could be made into a belt and therefore made as part of the fashion side of customizing. That or it folds into the syndana but I don't see the AW folding away into the syndana it would just look well....wrong.

We could easily customize one of two ways but knowing DE they might do the simpler one. First one could be at the arsenal window under the AW tab where you customize your AW and you can preview it.

The other one would be at the arsenal window and simply under appearance where the syndana's, warframe armor etc is, could be AW belt. In the most simplistic non over thought way possible it would just be the front and back part of the harness morphed into a belt. So when we go into the water on uranus or drop into during the war within quest the belt would expand/fold out and the wings for the AW would be there ready to go.

This could work, this is indeed pretty good idea :).

[RistN]

+1

Also...

I love and know how to play and control archwing but those narraow corridors in Corpus ship and Infested version(jv) are just not well designed for archwing.Whole run on that tilests turns into bumping into things.

Make sentinels mounted on archwing.Remember Luke and R2D2?

Edited January 27, 2017 by RistN