Sunday twitchtv Pink shorts Guy, cringe worthy

[tastic]

After watching some of Steve's videos on twitchtv, can those that make core game design change decisions, that affect us ever major patch get to know how your game works from ground up.  I mentioned this two or so years ago and one dev actually did it, Glen.  But watching Pink shorts Guy as he no longer ears the title Dev, made me cringe at how much he didn't know about how warframe works.

e.g. From last Sundays stream, I saw Pink shorts Guy with no clue as to why a frame/weapon needs a specific mod.  When Pink shorts Guy talked about removing a set of mods on stream in the past, namely serration/hornet strike etc, he didn't know to equip said mods and upgrade it to make his weapon better.  Pink shorts Guy if you don't know the core game, how can you make a sweeping decision to possibly remove it, thankfully I am guessing that chain of thought was stopped before it got out of hand.

So I said it in the past about the coding so again, know the game you are making sweeping decisions for.  We don't need another archwing grade update.

[Fugana]

He is pretending he don't know cus he want to see how new player is introduced to the game who have 0 knowledge for the game.

[Melos-mevim]

first of all his name is Steve Sinclair not "pink short guys" secondly it is a little alarming watching him discover some things but, and this is important, it seems a lot of the stuff he has been doing he has been sort of roleplaying as if he is a brand new player all together

[Ocfos]

Isn't he a designer, either way? I'm not sure he's really one of the people who decides major changes for us. Then again, I'm not entirely sure what being a designer fully entails in this case. Director? Designer? Not 100% sure, if I gotta be honest.

Edited January 25, 2017 by Ocfos

[16Bitman]

"Don't make me think" is something he keeps quoting, he wants to improve the game to be much easier to understand for newbs.

That's why he does his best to pretend he doesn't know how his game works.

At one point in his last stream he clearly notices a hidden resource cache on an earth sabotage mission but decides to ignore it since a new person might not be able to tell the different between a regular green one and the cache one.

[(PSN)joshw1400]

18 minutes ago, tastic said:

After watching some of Steve's videos on twitchtv, can those that make core game design change decisions, that affect us ever major patch get to know how your game works from ground up.  I mentioned this two or so years ago and one dev actually did it, Glen.  But watching Pink shorts Guy as he no longer ears the title Dev, made me cringe at how much he didn't know about how warframe works.

e.g. From last Sundays stream, I saw Pink shorts Guy with no clue as to why a frame/weapon needs a specific mod.  When Pink shorts Guy talked about removing a set of mods on stream in the past, namely serration/hornet strike etc, he didn't know to equip said mods and upgrade it to make his weapon better.  Pink shorts Guy if you don't know the core game, how can you make a sweeping decision to possibly remove it, thankfully I am guessing that chain of thought was stopped before it got out of hand.

So I said it in the past about the coding so again, know the game you are making sweeping decisions for.  We don't need another archwing grade update.

So are now calling him this now or...

[Chipputer]

9 minutes ago, 16Bitman said:

 

"Don't make me think" is something he keeps quoting, he wants to improve the game to be much easier to understand for newbs.

 

Which is a dangerous way to design your game.

The basics need to be explained. Not every intricate detail. Things need to be intuitive, but there needs to be something beyond the surface for people to discover or the intrigue and mystery is completely lost when the game pretty much gives them everything on a platter.

For example:

11 minutes ago, 16Bitman said:

At one point in his last stream he clearly notices a hidden resource cache on an earth sabotage mission but decides to ignore it since a new person might not be able to tell the different between a regular green one and the cache one.

The game directly tells you to scavenge lockers in the tutorial. You see green lights and red lights. A player who is observant and using their brain would notice, "there's a weird sound and this locker is white instead of red or green. That's different," then open it. The most we need is a tutorial mission where you get pointed to a room that has a large collection of lockers in it and have to find a specific locker that is glowing white and making noise. This allows you to discover what the cache is without the game necessarily holding your hand.

Honestly, he's taking the roleplay a bit far by ignoring things that would obviously intrigue anyone who is actually paying any sort of attention. It reminds me of all the people who complained about not having the data cache for Mobile Defense missions even though the dang thing was obviously marked on your map from the start.

[Azrael]

37 minutes ago, tastic said:

he didn't know to equip said mods and upgrade it to make his weapon better.

You completely misunderstood what was going on. He was putting himself in the position of a new player and asking himself whether he "should know" what to do. He did it constantly, it's his way of testing the new player experience.

 

[Tesseract7777]

54 minutes ago, Fugana said:

He is pretending he don't know cus he want to see how new player is introduced to the game who have 0 knowledge for the game.

Yeah this. While I am somewhat alarmed and bothered that Steve is only just now really delving in as a player, let's not pretend he doesn't know full well how most of the game works. 

He is "roleplaying" as a new player in order to better get an understanding as a developer of how a new player would look at and understand the game. It is very important that he roleplay in that manner if he is going to do this right and really learn what the player experience feels like. 

While I do wish him and some of the others did this long before, I think we should commend him for finally doing so. And I think the OP needs to remember that just because Steve and many of the devs may not actually know what it is like to be a player, they still have a pretty encyclopedic knowledge of how the game works and what they need to do, and how to do it. What they lack is simply the experience doing it from a player standpoint. 

And now Steve is rectifying that. 

[MillbrookWest]

1 hour ago, tastic said:

After watching some of Steve's videos on twitchtv, can those that make core game design change decisions, that affect us ever major patch get to know how your game works from ground up.  I mentioned this two or so years ago and one dev actually did it, Glen.  But watching Pink shorts Guy as he no longer ears the title Dev, made me cringe at how much he didn't know about how warframe works.

e.g. From last Sundays stream, I saw Pink shorts Guy with no clue as to why a frame/weapon needs a specific mod.  When Pink shorts Guy talked about removing a set of mods on stream in the past, namely serration/hornet strike etc, he didn't know to equip said mods and upgrade it to make his weapon better.  Pink shorts Guy if you don't know the core game, how can you make a sweeping decision to possibly remove it, thankfully I am guessing that chain of thought was stopped before it got out of hand.

So I said it in the past about the coding so again, know the game you are making sweeping decisions for.  We don't need another archwing grade update.

I think you missed the point. He's deliberately approaching things from the perspective of a new player, who does not know what things do. Which is why he asks himself the question over, and over.

Steve has been on a few Prime Times and seemed to know quite well what was happening. He sucked &#! from a gameplay perspective (read: he has no skill playing the game), but he knows what he was doing.

If you want an example, just wait around in the 'players helping players' subsection, or the 'Feedback' section. Almost every single day, someone posts a new thread on how the "Maths for Warframe is wrong" because they don't know the mods scale off of base values.

[Vali]

37 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

Which is a dangerous way to design your game.

The basics need to be explained. Not every intricate detail. Things need to be intuitive, but there needs to be something beyond the surface for people to discover or the intrigue and mystery is completely lost when the game pretty much gives them everything on a platter.

The thing is, Warframe is comprised of numerous complex and un-intuitive mechanics. I don't see what's wrong with how Steve approached these caches, mission objectives should be easily understood. Caches within sabotages missions aren't. I believe what Steve means by 'Don't make me think'  is to remove ambiguity from things which should be direct. It isn't about relaying all information about the game, but only things which are relevant to the core gameplay. 

[SeaUrchins]

Seriously, who the hell cares what colour shorts does he wear? You keep chanting "pink shorts" as if it's some sort of a bad thing, did someone beat you up with them in childhood or something?

[Sziklamester]

1 hour ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Yeah this. While I am somewhat alarmed and bothered that Steve is only just now really delving in as a player, let's not pretend he doesn't know full well how most of the game works. 

He is "roleplaying" as a new player in order to better get an understanding as a developer of how a new player would look at and understand the game. It is very important that he roleplay in that manner if he is going to do this right and really learn what the player experience feels like. 

While I do wish him and some of the others did this long before, I think we should commend him for finally doing so. And I think the OP needs to remember that just because Steve and many of the devs may not actually know what it is like to be a player, they still have a pretty encyclopedic knowledge of how the game works and what they need to do, and how to do it. What they lack is simply the experience doing it from a player standpoint. 

And now Steve is rectifying that. 

Pretty much this.