It's been a while, how do you feel about Nidus now?

[PsiWarp]

I still play him occasionally. Even after the nerf (which was pretty reasonable, if you bothered to test/read up on them), he is still a fully self-sufficient Warframe who can rampage with abilities alone, and has more weapon options to fall back to when push comes to shove. I get that for some players he can be boring to play since he's quite adept at almost every role, but that's his charm for me since that just makes him incredibly versatile.

Besides, frolicking in my garden and holding back puke when Larva bulges aren't getting old for me anytime soon.

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

On the one hand, I've never been unappreciative when a Nidus starts wrecking S#&$ during a mission, helping us win. 

On the other hand, I find Nidus' abilities sorta nauseating. Plus, all my frames are infected with disgusting Canadian Space Herpes* thanks to Nidus. I don't have a Nidus, nor do I ever intend to buy or build one.

 

 

* in all seriousness, the whole helminth cyst thing actually turns my stomach a little, and I'm fairly irritated at DE about it. 

Edited January 30, 2017 by (XB1)CannyJack

[Ailissa]

Loved him before the changes now i've gone back to Mesa, Inaros and Valkyr.

 

I don't do long missions and other frames do shorter missions far better than he does.

 

It takes him 100 stacks to do what I can do with Inaros instantly. 

[RoboticApplesWithLasers]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Tactless_Ninja said:

It specifically applies to his abilities though just like every other frame. And it's much more damaging on other frames like Equinox or Rhino that need their buffs in high end content. And again there's already a unit that does that, energy leeches. It'd be overkill.

 

I think your beginning to see my point. Nullifiers don't act in a way that indicates they would "drain" anything. If stacks are an ability, they should be cleared when entering a nully, if they aren't an ability, they should not be affected at all, if nullifiers now have a gradual drain on the effectiveness of an ability, then this should show throughout the entire game, not just on one example.  Warframe has far too many "edge case" decisions made for balance, and the game would be better off if the rules of the world were more stable and the frames themselves were less balanced.

There are other ways to nerf Nidus- a few I think would make him more fun- for example, his 1 could give an enemy an effect that would remove armor/max shield to a percentage based off of his stack counter- Now His stacks count for more than just damage, getting them as high as possible isn't passive scaling, but an active goal the player needs to pursue.  Of course, I want the scaling damage to be removed, it does feel overpowered to 1 shot dozens of enemies.

I also think his 2 should "pop" after you cast his 1 underneath it, it isn't very fun to recast 1 several times in the same area.

If more than 1 Nidus are in a mission they should be able to Link to the same target, possibly triple buffing a single ally.

There are ways to nerf nidus and make him better, but the nullifier punches him in the gut and makes it a worse experience.

 

 

[Littlerift]

44 minutes ago, RainbowFlash said:

Surely you can see the difference between say, Rhino losing Iron skin on contact with a nullie and Nidus losing 100 stacks when touching the bubble. 

Of course, but Nidus is still affected far less by Nullifiers than any other Warframe.

[RainbowFlash]

7 minutes ago, Littlerift said:

Of course, but Nidus is still affected far less by Nullifiers than any other Warframe.

Not really? "Sustained" powers get broken, casting blocked and stacks keep going away at about 1 per second. You could easily argue getting 3rd power canceled and losing 3 stacks is harsher punishment than losing Iron skin, Halo or Invisibility. I don't see how being affected the same as other frames AND getting stacks leeched away is less.

[(PSN)Dark-TailedFox]

4 hours ago, damnfish20 said:

To be honest, i like Nidus, he's just not really that fun to play. He is REALLY strong in long survivals, though. (But not quite Wukong Immortal ;D) Also that virus thing needs removing. Kinda sick of the pink crap on my warframes.

Wait for it to mature and go to the infested door to remove it permanently.

_____________________

OT: I don't have much to say against him. But nullifiers are why I rarely go to corpus missions for fun until they fix that 5+ a minute spawn rate. Otherwise he's fine since you work hard to build his stacks (especially when there's a mirage and simulor or 2 in the same mission) and it pays off well. The infested field is a useful heal especially when you're able to work your power strength on it, but spamming virulence is a little annoying is all.

[YpsitheFlintsider]

1 hour ago, RainbowFlash said:

Surely you can see the difference between say, Rhino losing Iron skin on contact with a nullie and Nidus losing 100 stacks when touching the bubble. 

He literally only loses 1.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

58 minutes ago, (Xbox One)CannyJack said:

On the one hand, I've never been unappreciative when a Nidus starts wrecking S#&$ during a mission, helping us win. 

On the other hand, I find Nidus' abilities sorta nauseating. Plus, all my frames are infected with disgusting Canadian Space Herpes* thanks to Nidus. I don't have a Nidus, nor do I ever intend to buy or build one.

 

 

* in all seriousness, the whole helminth cyst thing actually turns my stomach a little, and I'm fairly irritated at DE about it. 

Wait 7 days for zit maturation (a hair growth) Enter the infested room and the chair will pop your zit and immunize your frame.

I can't comment on Nidus yet.  I've gotten 4-5 systems and still no neuroptics.

Edited January 30, 2017 by (PS4)Silverback73

[Doc-Orange]

I really like Nidus. Is has enought power to be ready for endgame but he could still be killed in high level missions.

I find it really motivating to increase the counter and power him up.

[RainbowFlash]

28 minutes ago, YpsitheFlintsider said:

He literally only loses 1.

Sure, if you do one-hit slide attack. But I'm tepted to just go "And then...?". What do other frames lose apart from the abilities currently in effect (as nidus does too) that you guys think Nidus getting perma-knocked out of mission is okay when he gets anywhere close to nullifier, otherwise "So unfair"? I feel like I missed something and would apperciate to hear the reasoning used there.

[Devinee]

Quote

It's been a while, how do you feel about Nidus now?

still mastery fodder

[Littlerift]

1 hour ago, RainbowFlash said:

Not really? "Sustained" powers get broken, casting blocked and stacks keep going away at about 1 per second. You could easily argue getting 3rd power canceled and losing 3 stacks is harsher punishment than losing Iron skin, Halo or Invisibility. I don't see how being affected the same as other frames AND getting stacks leeched away is less.

 

Nidus has the innate survivability needed to endure inside a Nullifier bubble though, whereas many other 'frames such as Mesa, Loki, Nezha, and Ivara can be almost instantly killed if they accidentally enter a bubble. Most 'frames also effectively lose a huge amount of energy the instant they enter a Nullifier bubble, and most 'frames find it far harder to recover energy than Nidus does - hell, Nidus basically cannot run out of energy thanks to his 1. Him losing his three almost doesn't matter compared to the loss other 'frames face because of this: he can recover the stack loss with one or two casts of his 1, which are free energy-wise so long as you don't use it poorly: hit 5 enemies with Virulence and you've can cast Parasitic Link again. Compare that to any other 'frame, which requires you to find energy orbs in order to recast your powers, and it seems clear to me that Nullifiers are far less detrimental to Nidus than any other 'frame.

Even the best players can run out of energy on most 'frames; even the worst players will never run out of energy or stacks while using Nidus.

[RainbowFlash]

2 minutes ago, Littlerift said:

 

Nidus has the innate survivability needed to endure inside a Nullifier bubble though, whereas many other 'frames such as Mesa, Loki, Nezha, and Ivara can be almost instantly killed if they accidentally enter a bubble. Most 'frames also effectively lose a huge amount of energy the instant they enter a Nullifier bubble, and most 'frames find it far harder to recover energy than Nidus does - hell, Nidus basically cannot run out of energy thanks to his 1. Him losing his three almost doesn't matter compared to the loss other 'frames face because of this: he can recover the stack loss with one or two casts of his 1, which are free energy-wise so long as you don't use it poorly: hit 5 enemies with Virulence and you've can cast Parasitic Link again. Compare that to any other 'frame, which requires you to find energy orbs in order to recast your powers, and it seems clear to me that Nullifiers are far less detrimental to Nidus than any other 'frame.

Even the best players can run out of energy on most 'frames; even the worst players will never run out of energy or stacks while using Nidus.

Sorry, you just give so much of the "I dislike Nidus, so the frame should be usueless" vibe that it hard to say much that makes a lot of sense. I don't find nullifiers to be more than a mild inconvenience on any frame, only time it gets pretty adrenaline fueled is soloing with Ivara or Loki with large group of high level enemies around, where the one touch could really cost you the mission. Nidus should always lose all stacks + everything other frames lose on contact with nullie... Collecting full stacks on Nidus isn't completely daunting task, that much is true, tho it's not exactly something you do in 10 seconds either as you seem to suggest, but instead of saying "Well, the stacks should drain 3x faster" or something , you say that just touching nullie, be it intentionally, miscalculation or due to lag, Nidus should lose everything he's got going for him and likely ending the mission for him, if you play on higher levels. That is just not reasonable and more of the "Don't like that guy, let's kill 'im." I meantioned before.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

my nidus came out same way as my saryn a DOT frame 

nidus scales well -until that 100 cap-  and has a high survivability 

then saryn takes over imo in the DOT area 

using them together is fun 

 im using it, and i dont normally like male frames kits but hes ok as is 

[Littlerift]

6 minutes ago, RainbowFlash said:

Sorry, you just give so much of the "I dislike Nidus, so the frame should be usueless" vibe that it hard to say much that makes a lot of sense. I don't find nullifiers to be more than a mild inconvenience on any frame, only time it gets pretty adrenaline fueled is soloing with Ivara or Loki with large group of high level enemies around, where the one touch could really cost you the mission. Nidus should always lose all stacks + everything other frames lose on contact with nullie... Collecting full stacks on Nidus isn't completely daunting task, that much is true, tho it's not exactly something you do in 10 seconds either as you seem to suggest, but instead of saying "Well, the stacks should drain 3x faster" or something , you say that just touching nullie, be it intentionally, miscalculation or due to lag, Nidus should lose everything he's got going for him and likely ending the mission for him, if you play on higher levels. That is just not reasonable and more of the "Don't like that guy, let's kill 'im." I meantioned before.

I like Nidus, but if assuming things makes you happy then fine.

I very clearly stated that he should lose all his stacks as a joke, hence the Flame Retardant picture that associated it. I don't think he should lose all his stacks, but I just don't understand this pathetic illusion that many players have built up around him and how he's been so unfairly nerfed. He was ridiculously overpowered when he was released, and the changes have helped to tone him down to a more standard level, which is good.

My point is merely that Nidus is the 'frame that is least negatively effected by Nullifiers, and as such the "Nullifiers should drain all Warframes' energy" argument is utter nonsense. Again, I don't think he should lose all of his stacks, but if you wanted him to suffer the same penalty as other Warframes then he really should lose 10/20 stacks whenever he enters a bubble.

Edited January 30, 2017 by Littlerift

[NewAgeDoom]

Good at farming, and general survival, but he's not so good at the boss fights with his abilities (I had a very sad time dealing with the Valkyr Rail Specter in particular with him, got her down to about half, then she hysteria'd and ripped me to shreds)

[RainbowFlash]

4 minutes ago, Littlerift said:

I like Nidus, but if assuming things makes you happy then fine.

I very clearly stated that he should lose all his stacks as a joke, hence the Flame Retardant picture that associated it. I don't think he should lose all his stacks, but I just don't understand this pathetic illusion that many players have built up around him and how he's been so unfairly nerfed. He was ridiculously overpowered when he was released, and the changes have helped to tone him down to a more standard level, which is good.

My point is merely that Nidus is the 'frame that is least negatively effected by Nullifiers, and as such the "Nullifiers should drain all Warframes' energy" argument is utter nonsense. Again, I don't think he should lose all of his stacks, but if you wanted him to suffer the same penalty as other Warframes then he really should lose 10/20 stacks whenever he enters a bubble.

Maybe you mentioned joking, but not in this dialogue certainly, so *shrug*, as far as this covenrsation goes, you are comp=letely serious about what you said.

I never said they -should- drain all energy, as far as I'm concerned, nullifiers don't really have a place in the game appard from making it less fun and should be reworked to reflect current gameplay or be removed, but you said nullies should remove all useability from skill for Nidus, I say that is like removing all energy on touch from other frames, which it is. And yeah, Nidus is really not the least affected as it stands currently. What you seem to want if for him to be the most affected, which I guess is your thing? So what exaxctly do you propose, if everything up till this point was "Is a prank, bro!" ?

[Stratego89]

6 hours ago, Smilomaniac said:

Ahh that was one of the other changes too, wasn't it, maggots getting unintentionally too many stacks for you?

I don't really notice the difference in that now though. Maybe because I run with a high efficiency build for easy spamming.

 

edit; I don't really agree on him needing a nerf though. I have several sets of weapons that kill just as easily and he's not particularly powerful early on in missions anyway.

"This thing is overpowered" is not an excuse for something else to not be. It just means both things need to be changed to balance them. Excuses do not create progress, they create stagnation, decay, and problems.

[Littlerift]

5 minutes ago, RainbowFlash said:

Maybe you mentioned joking, but not in this dialogue certainly, so *shrug*, as far as this covenrsation goes, you are comp=letely serious about what you said.

I never said they -should- drain all energy, as far as I'm concerned, nullifiers don't really have a place in the game appard from making it less fun and should be reworked to reflect current gameplay or be removed, but you said nullies should remove all useability from skill for Nidus, I say that is like removing all energy on touch from other frames, which it is. And yeah, Nidus is really not the least affected as it stands currently. What you seem to want if for him to be the most affected, which I guess is your thing? So what exaxctly do you propose, if everything up till this point was "Is a prank, bro!" ?

 

Well I haven't mentioned, outside of the original post which is somewhat clearly a jest, that he should lose all of his stacks even once - I've just argued that he has it much better than any other Warframe. In fact, that post is entirely outside of the line of discussion, which is about the drain on his stacks and how you jumped onto my post with somebody else and just assumed my position a priori. In fact, I even stated flatly that there was a clear difference between Nidus losing 100 stacks and other Warframes losing their power in my original response to you, and since then I have only stated that Nidus is the least affected Warframe when it comes to Nullifiers.

I think he should suffer more than he currently does: either the rate of drain should be higher or he should just lose a fixed amount or percentage of stacks upon entering a Nullifier bubble.

Nullifiers already remove most of the energy from other Warframes though, as they lose any active abilities that they've already paid for. While all other Warframes can lose a significant amount of energy the second a Nullifier bubble brushes the, Nidus doesn't suffer any appreciable penalty from Nullifiers unless he bumbles around inside the bubble for a fairly length amount of time. Given that Nidus is already the most energy efficient Warframe in the game, I think this is something of an issue.

If you can point to another Warframe that suffers more from entering a Nullifier bubble I'd love to know which one it is. 

[Campaigner]

Nidus = spam 1 all mission long and never use weapons.

It's a shame really, he looks so cool too.

[NewAgeDoom]

Just now, Campaigner said:

Nidus = spam 1 all mission long and never use weapons.

It's a shame really, he looks so cool too.

If that's literally all you do as Nidus, you're playing him VERY wrong.

[RainbowFlash]

3 minutes ago, Littlerift said:

 

Well I haven't mentioned, outside of the original post which is somewhat clearly a jest, that he should lose all of his stacks even once - I've just argued that he has it much better than any other Warframe. In fact, that post is entirely outside of the line of discussion, which is about the drain on his stacks and how you jumped onto my post with somebody else and just assumed my position a priori. In fact, I even stated flatly that there was a clear difference between Nidus losing 100 stacks and other Warframes losing their power in my original response to you, and since then I have only stated that Nidus is the least affected Warframe when it comes to Nullifiers.

I think he should suffer more than he currently does: either the rate of drain should be higher or he should just lose a fixed amount or percentage of stacks upon entering a Nullifier bubble.

Nullifiers already remove most of the energy from other Warframes though, as they lose any active abilities that they've already paid for. While all other Warframes can lose a significant amount of energy the second a Nullifier bubble brushes the, Nidus doesn't suffer any appreciable penalty from Nullifiers unless he bumbles around inside the bubble for a fairly length amount of time. Given that Nidus is already the most energy efficient Warframe in the game, I think this is something of an issue.

If you can point to another Warframe that suffers more from entering a Nullifier bubble I'd love to know which one it is. 

Clearly a jest, huh. If I assume it's a jest just because it soudns overkill or stupid, I'd have to assume about 90% of these forums are a complete joke. So I don't.

What I will assume tho, is that you meant warframe that suffers less, rather than more. Meelse Inaros. That <any> frame with a tonkor standing on boxes. Virtually anything ever that depends on weapons more than powers. It's all about context is what I'm saying. Loki and Ivara are certainly affected way more than Nidus when playing solo. I don't know where you get the idea that touching nullifier drains "most frames of most energy" from or that Nidus is always super strong no matter what. At the end of the day, Nullies make the game less fun and I'm against buffing them further, no matter whether you want the buff to screw up only one perticular frame or all of them. 

[Littlerift]

1 minute ago, RainbowFlash said:

Clearly a jest, huh. If I assume it's a jest just because it soudns overkill or stupid, I'd have to assume about 90% of these forums are a complete joke. So I don't.

What I will assume tho, is that you meant warframe that suffers less, rather than more. Meelse Inaros. That <any> frame with a tonkor standing on boxes. Virtually anything ever that depends on weapons more than powers. It's all about context is what I'm saying. Loki and Ivara are certainly affected way more than Nidus when playing solo. I don't know where you get the idea that touching nullifier drains "most frames of most energy" from or that Nidus is always super strong no matter what. At the end of the day, Nullies make the game less fun and I'm against buffing them further, no matter whether you want the buff to screw up only one perticular frame or all of them. 

 

Inaros loses Scarab Armour when entering a Nullifier bubble, although I will admit that he doesn't lose as much as most others.

Saying "Any Warframe with a tonkor" isn't a legitimate answer - Nidus can have a tonkor.

Saying "anything that depends on weapons more than powers" is equally not really an answer. I assume you're talking about people like Mirage and Mesa? In both cases you lose energy efficiency and survivability by entering a Nullie bubble. If you meant Warframes that just don't use powers at all, well, which Warframes actually do this? The only ones that come close, I think, are Titania (who loses her Tributes when entering a Nullie bubble, which means she loses a minimum of 50~ energy), Atlas (although he loses his Rumblers, so 100 energy), and Vauban, Excal, and Frost. 

And Nullifiers do remove a lot of energy from most 'frames. For Warframes that have duration-based powers you effectively suffer a major energy efficiency penalty, and for Warframes with continuous abilities that improve over time (such as Equinox) you get reset to 0. The only ones who don't effectively lose energy from Nullifiers are Warframes that lack buffs and Warframes whose continuous abilities drain energy at a fixed rate and do not improve over time.

And I haven't said anything about buffing Nullifiers at all. Although, personally I don't really see any issues with Nullifiers - I much prefer where they are in terms of balance than how Bombards are.

[RainbowFlash]

5 minutes ago, Littlerift said:

 

Inaros loses Scarab Armour when entering a Nullifier bubble, although I will admit that he doesn't lose as much as most others.

Saying "Any Warframe with a tonkor" isn't a legitimate answer - Nidus can have a tonkor.

Saying "anything that depends on weapons more than powers" is equally not really an answer. I assume you're talking about people like Mirage and Mesa? In both cases you lose energy efficiency and survivability by entering a Nullie bubble. If you meant Warframes that just don't use powers at all, well, which Warframes actually do this? The only ones that come close, I think, are Titania (who loses her Tributes when entering a Nullie bubble, which means she loses a minimum of 50~ energy), Atlas (although he loses his Rumblers, so 100 energy), and Vauban, Excal, and Frost. 

And Nullifiers do remove a lot of energy from most 'frames. For Warframes that have duration-based powers you effectively suffer a major energy efficiency penalty, and for Warframes with continuous abilities that improve over time (such as Equinox) you get reset to 0. The only ones who don't effectively lose energy from Nullifiers are Warframes that lack buffs and Warframes whose continuous abilities drain energy at a fixed rate and do not improve over time.

And I haven't said anything about buffing Nullifiers at all. Although, personally I don't really see any issues with Nullifiers - I much prefer where they are in terms of balance than how Bombards are.

Yes, with Inaros you pretty much need to press 4, then 2 and then E to completely recover from a nullifier, no matter how long a stay you had... So I suppose you are now going to lobby for Inaros being more affected? And yes, when one says any frame, it tends to encompass any frame, rather than two particular frames, so yes, as you say Nidus can have a Tonkor. I never said "warframes that never use powers" either. Also if you call 50 energy "almost all for any other warframe than Nidus" then, well, I'm not even gonna say anything. Let's not even mention that you are talking about losing already spent energy, rather than energy you have and assuming noone ever heard of efficiency or something of the sort, which then twists this whole thing elsewhere completely, as we would have to talk about reducinng tribute energy price to 30 and having energy regen of 4/s and energy orbs and how titania can lose essenially nothing upon enetering the bubble, where Nidus can lose 1+3+1/s stacks in the same spot, which is infinitely more relevant in almost any situation.

You could say "But what are you talking about, I don't use THAT focus school so I have no regen and I don't use build with efficiency, so I lose 50 and won't get it back, that is pretty heavy price to pay copared to Nidus." To which I can say "Yes, maybe that's why I keep mentioning that there is context to look at as we are not dealing in absolutes here." And we can go on and on.

So instead: Good night!