100 Shades of Riven

[SeaUrchins]

This topic was originally posted in Russian section by @1lambofcat1, who game me his permission to make a translation to share his story and draw attention to the problem. Maybe there is hope. The translation is below.

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Greetings!:) The purpose of my post is to draw attention of the game developers and players who have experienced the problem same as mine, when they tried to get something good out of a riven mod.

I wanted to improve my favourite weapon, Braton Prime to be exact (each to his own I guess). Having obtained a riven for it, I strived to roll what it lacked so much! Soon the interest grew into a passion and I started spending plat on boosters. I have performed 100 rerolls of the mod. Yet, I haven't got anything good. In the end I have the right to conclude riven mods are no more than a new senseless grindfest. The image is attached.

Spoiler

My message is, it is high time to change this senseless idea with its beautiful description.

My idea is the following: each 10 rerolls should provide another challenge, completion of which would reset the reroll kuva cost back to 900, so the cycle starts again and reaches 3500 the next tenth roll.

Or to add new effects to the mod each 10 rerolls! We can discuss the effects in this topic. I want your live feedback on this, I want your ideas. Of course as long as it doesn't break the game's balance and doesn't go beyong game engine's capabilities. Here is my concept (it is merely a concept):

10th reroll

Spoiler

30% chance of getting effect: "Thunderbolt" for bullets/projectiles;
25% chance of getting effect: "Slash proc when hitting _bodypart_(name of the bodypart)";
17% chance of getting effect: "Removing enemy armor when procced with (proc name)";
15% chance of getting effect: "10m explosion when reloading";
11.5% chance of getting effect: "100% red crit chance for 7 seconds after reload";
10% chance of getting effect: "Shield converted into ammo";
9.5% chance of getting effect: "Bullets have %(num) chance to remove 50% of enemy armor";
9% chance of getting effect: "Traveling bullets produce dublicates (a kind of a multishot, but with only 50% of the original damage)";
3% chance of getting effect: "Ammo is not consumed when hitting _bodypart_ (name of the bodypart)";
1% chance of getting effect: "Finisher damage when hitting _bodypart_ (name of the bodypart)".

20th reroll

Spoiler

20% chance of getting effect: "Thunderbolt" for bullets/projectiles;
16% chance of getting effect: "Slash proc when hitting _bodypart_(name of the bodypart)";
13% chance of getting effect: "Removing enemy armor when procced with (proc name)";
12% chance of getting effect: "10m explosion when reloading";
11% chance of getting effect: "100% red crit chance for 7 seconds after reload";
10% chance of getting effect: "Shield converted into ammo";
9.5% chance of getting effect: "Bullets have %(num) chance to remove 50% of enemy armor";
9% chance of getting effect: "Traveling bullets produce dublicates (a kind of a multishot, but with only 50% of the original damage)";
3% chance of getting effect: "Ammo is not consumed when hitting _bodypart_ (name of the bodypart)";
1% chance of getting effect: "Finisher damage when hitting _bodypart_ (name of the bodypart)".

30th reroll

Spoiler

15% chance of getting effect: "Thunderbolt" for bullets/projectiles;
13% chance of getting effect: "Slash proc when hitting _bodypart_(name of the bodypart)";
16% chance of getting effect: "Removing enemy armor when procced with (proc name)";
17% chance of getting effect: "10m explosion when reloading";
18.5% chance of getting effect: "100% red crit chance for 7 seconds after reload";
19% chance of getting effect: "Shield converted into ammo";
10% chance of getting effect: "Bullets have %(num) chance to remove 50% of enemy armor";
9% chance of getting effect: "Traveling bullets produce dublicates (a kind of a multishot, but with only 50% of the original damage)";
5% chance of getting effect: "Ammo is not consumed when hitting _bodypart_ (name of the bodypart)";
3% chance of getting effect: "Finisher damage when hitting _bodypart_ (name of the bodypart)".

 

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[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

Thunderbolt on Braton Prime... you sir have my full attention and support!

Edited February 4, 2017 by -HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-

[KoshLovesYou]

The initial idea seems pretty fair; in an RNG based system, it can get pretty easy to get screwed over.

Additional effects are a maybe, but I can get the desire to just want to go back to the start after a certain investment point.

[Lawmonark]

I just watch a few videos, where a player used 300k Kuva, rolling it about 33 times. In the end, he got a decent riven... but nothing worth the time it took to get the kuva.

[kaliazane]

I rolled prolly 400 times so far, I don't mind grinding for Kuva that much just wish they implemented kuva farming into endless missions somehow.

[SeaUrchins]

I don't mind grinding kuva either, though I would prefer a reward for the invested time. Rolling hundreds of times without a good result is Sisyphean toil.

[Abenoki]

I will roll forever till i get my perfect +crit dmg, +multi, +dmg roll! XP

 

cant stop wont stop...Im actually enjoying this

[saltygr33n]

We should be allowed to use a certain special item, obtained in some way, to lock the one stat we want saved, and re roll the rest of the stats, whether we lose or gain those extra stats is fine with me. If you want better stat of that, lets say, crit chance of (maxed rank) 70% crit chance to a higher crit chance, you'll have to re roll.

Just my thoughts.

[ranks21]

I gave up on kuva farming and rerolling rivens as there is 0 benefits of what it has advertised on the mods<< how much longer will players buy into the bs from this group?

[Rolunde]

I really would just like it if we could "lock in" parts of the Riven as we go along and re-roll the other parts.

This would be a really nice incentive to work on a riven, make a project out of it. 

Eventually, you'd get some progress and getting to the final goal would be entirely up to us and how much we want to keep whacking away at it.

Right now you can keep pouring kuva into the mod but there's no sense of progress, just degrees of disappointment unless or until you finally strike "riven gold". 

[Zebiko]

14 hours ago, Echoa said:

I will roll forever till i get my perfect +crit dmg, +multi, +dmg roll! XP

 

cant stop wont stop...Im actually enjoying this

I have a strong disposition riven (different weapon obv.) that has worse values and higher MR requirements. God I hate riven nonsense.

[Tesseract7777]

I would like a system where after enough rerolls, you earn a stack that you can use to "permanently save a stat" from being removed when rerolling. 

For example, rerolling a mod 10 times would give you one "save". You could use this save once you get a stat you like (could be your next roll or a few rolls away), and now no matter what you roll, you will at least retain that one stat. 

Then if roll 20 times you can save another stat, etc. This would ensure that by 40 - 50 or so rolls (which is fair imo because that is a lot of time an dedication to put into getting stats for one mod for one weapon), you would finally have pretty much your personal ideal stat build. 

Right now, with the absurd amount of weapons, and the fact it is totally random every time with no respect to what the stats were previously, it makes the mathematical chances of getting anything close to what you want so low you might as well be playing the lottery. 

Edited February 5, 2017 by Tesseract7777

[Ghogiel]

If people read RNG breakdown of rivens with all the math estimating time of the grind and odds of getting something good, you would know it can take up to months to couple YEARS to hit the RNG lotto depending on how much you play/booster running. Basically 100 rerolls is not huge in the grand scheme of the riven RNG.

If OP spent the equivalent time wasted in rerolling making plat and scouring the trades for the exact riven he wanted he'd either have one damn close or actually have the riven. Obviously the closer you want to perfect roll the more potential years of rerolling you will have to do and more plat it's going to cost, and the time investment in getting good trades is quite high too.

I don't think DE will help people unwilling to pay the grind with rivens tbh. They didn't lower the mutagen cost of Hema with the justification that it would be unfair to the  fraction of people who did farm it (even though the cost is kinda BS really).

Locking in a stat mechanic would lower the RNG an order of magnitude to get good rivens.  Would have been good mechanic to have from the start, but DE probs won't devalue the time players who are buying and selling rivens for 1000s put in, since unlike the Hema it also impacts the market, which would be really counter to DEs objectives with why it's heavy RNG and tradable commodity in the first place.

[Carnage2K4]

I feel like people that just grind and grind Kuva day after day till they have exactly the mod they want are doing it wrong...

I take it as a long term thing to work on slowly as I do other stuff in the game, and every few days I notice I have enough Kuva to make a roll on something, choose the better mod and keep doing other things. 

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

Rivens are all about selling platinum, nothing more.

[Carnage2K4]

1 minute ago, (PS4)AllOrNothinDays said:

Rivens are all about selling platinum, nothing more.

[NightValdiez117]

 

Well, apparently this is not enough for our developers. Challenge accepted.

[k05h]

On 5.2.2017 at 8:50 AM, Ghogiel said:

If people read RNG breakdown of rivens with all the math estimating time of the grind and odds of getting something good, you would know it can take up to months to couple YEARS to hit the RNG lotto depending on how much you play/booster running. Basically 100 rerolls is not huge in the grand scheme of the riven RNG.

Rivens turned Warframe mods into slot machines. It is interesting to see how people get addicted to yet another re-roll. - Actually it is very scary to see this development.

[Hypernaut1]

I just roll a Riven until the stats are good enough to replace a mod. I don't hunt that god stat Riven.

So far, it really hasn't taken me more than 10x rolls to get something good enough. People's obsession with getting a mod with stats in the top 0.05% if unnecessary

Edited February 11, 2017 by Hypernaut1

[SolaireTheSunWalker]

On 2/5/2017 at 1:29 AM, Warfoxzero said:

I have a strong disposition riven (different weapon obv.) that has worse values and higher MR requirements. God I hate riven nonsense.

MR doesn't matter in rivens it doesn't change the values. He has a negative stat and it increases the other positive stats on it. Bur yeah RNG sucks sometimes 

Edited February 11, 2017 by SolaireTheSunWalker

[Gxls]

On 2/5/2017 at 8:02 AM, Tesseract7777 said:

I would like a system where after enough rerolls, you earn a stack that you can use to "permanently save a stat" from being removed when rerolling. 

For example, rerolling a mod 10 times would give you one "save". You could use this save once you get a stat you like (could be your next roll or a few rolls away), and now no matter what you roll, you will at least retain that one stat. 

Then if roll 20 times you can save another stat, etc. This would ensure that by 40 - 50 or so rolls (which is fair imo because that is a lot of time an dedication to put into getting stats for one mod for one weapon), you would finally have pretty much your personal ideal stat build. 

Right now, with the absurd amount of weapons, and the fact it is totally random every time with no respect to what the stats were previously, it makes the mathematical chances of getting anything close to what you want so low you might as well be playing the lottery. 

I totally agree and thought about the same mechanic of saving 1 stats after X rolls.

Currently at 230+ rolls on my simulor mod.... All i want is damage/fire rate and a managable negative :(

[NightValdiez117]

2 hours ago, -Metanet01 said:

I totally agree and thought about the same mechanic of saving 1 stats after X rolls.

Currently at 230+ rolls on my simulor mod.... All i want is damage/fire rate and a managable negative :(

 

Attach screen to the subject theme and support his opinion!)

[Gxls]

On 2/13/2017 at 2:52 PM, 1lambofcat1 said:

 

Attach screen to the subject theme and support his opinion!)

https://gyazo.com/3f522afde53ecd63a3c4936c8d3438ac

[TennoPain]

Rivens were none of the worst ideas in Warframe imo (tho i understand so many ppl get adicted to it) i I guess only few of us can stand calm.

I was sad so sad about this it made me quit game I dont see reason in it when i was able to one shot everything 4 big updates before and endgame is pointless at this point 

WHY u may ask WARFRAME IS Games structured around TIME and to be fast at it you neded money (or have tons unhuman number of time houres)

BY this i speak full gear max HC grind 

 

[Aleksundar]

Complain complain complain. Just buy a new riven son, just because you weren't lucky doesn't mean the WHOLE SYSTEM needs to change to suit your needs. You should've stopped after 29 rolls and started wit a new mod XD. I can't begin to think about that grind...

Edited March 20, 2017 by Aleksundar