Now that new players have easy and early access to a sentinel, remove the mod conflicts

[Xiusa]

Or introduce sentinel-only mod variants. A new player (hell, even I don't want to) doesn't want to go and get a second copy of a mod just so their shiny new sentinel buddy can deal some damage too. Also remove having to rank up their mods, just do it like how the Warframes level up. 

Edited February 9, 2017 by Xiusa
rearranged where the words were, makes more sense

[Aniawn]

The conflict is because you cannot have your cake and eat it too.

5 minutes ago, Xiusa said:

 Same thing goes for ranking up their mods, just do it like how the Warframes level up.

Can you better explain what you mean, please?

[Xiusa]

Just now, Aniawn said:

The conflict is because you cannot have your cake and eat it too.

Can you better explain what you mean, please?

I don't know what that phrase means.

Warframe abilities rank up as your Warframe levels up. Sentinels (and pets) should also do this, yet they do not.

[Zanoza-chan]

I'd like to be able to mark the mods for using on sentinel, so I can distinguish em while making the build. I'm tired of checking "is that mod installed in my sentinel wep?"

But if you want to make your sentinel strong, you need to pay for it, that's why I'm not supporting the idea of using mod on regular weps and sentinel weps at the same time. Also, it's worth it. A little spoiler here:

Spoiler

My sentinel killed me twice without giving me a chance during TWW :D becuz of 4 forma'ed wep

 

[Xiusa]

Just now, Zanoza-chan said:

I'd like to be able to mark the mods for using on sentinel, so I can distinguish em while making the build. I'm tired of checking "is that mod installed in my sentinel wep?"

But if you want to make your sentinel strong, you need to pay for it, that's why I'm not supporting the idea of using mod on regular weps and sentinel weps at the same time. Also, it's worth it. A little spoiler here:

  Reveal hidden contents

My sentinel killed me twice without giving me a chance during TWW :D becuz of 4 forma'ed wep

 

A mark would be cool I guess, especially for those of you that actually use sentinels

[Acersecomic]

OH PLEASE YES! The mod conflict is THE ONE reason why I NEVER EVER! use sentinel weapons. The ONLY time I have ever used sentinel weapons is while I was leveling them up for mastery exp.

Remove mod conflict or introduce unique mods for sentinel weapons. It's beyond ridiculous the way it is and I can't believe it's still the way it is.

Edited February 9, 2017 by Acersecomic

[Chipputer]

Mod conflicts are the only reason I have multiple maxed Primed mods. Isn't even really worth the cost of maxing them, tbh.

[Bibliothekar]

14 minutes ago, Aniawn said:

The conflict is because you cannot have your cake and eat it too.

This. Mods are upgrades to your warframe/weapon/whatever. And you can't put the same upgrade on two different things at the same time. You can't lend your coat to your neighbour and wear it while he does.

Edited February 9, 2017 by Bibliothekar

[ChuckMaverick]

Sentinel precepts being mods means that you can choose which ones to use and even what priority they should have.

If sentinel 'abilities' were innate and levelled like a warframe then you'd lose that flexibility.

It would be nice to remove mod conflicts for sentinel weapons, but creating sentinel versions of all weapon mods would further dilute drop tables.

[NightBlitz]

think of it this way, can you use a wired mouse on two computers at the same time? that means without unplugging it from one and into the other. you cant, at least not without some weird special adapter, which, if they exist, would probably be more expensive than a second mouse anyways. thats how i look at mods, so to me it makes sense that you can;t use them on multiple active weapons. sure they could change it so sentinel weapons have their own mods, but you're talking about adding a new version of pretty much every thrown melee, shotgun, rifle, and pistol mod that isnt weapon specific, otherwise you'd either still have mods that can be used on both or sentinel weapons would lose out on potential.

oh, and you can't just make the sentinel mods work like frame abilities, that'd pretty much mean removing most of the customization in sentinel builds

[MagPrime]

15 minutes ago, Xiusa said:

I don't know what that phrase means.

Warframe abilities rank up as your Warframe levels up. Sentinels (and pets) should also do this, yet they do not.

Ahh, having their abilities be inherint and auto ranking.

Yes, please.  I'd be willing to drop two mod slots for that, just like we did when Warframes when from ability mods to inherent.

[Aniawn]

7 minutes ago, Xiusa said:

I don't know what that phrase means.

Basically, a mod can only be installed on one active equipment item.  If two patients need a new heart, and you only have one available, you can only give the heart to one of the patients.

 

9 minutes ago, Xiusa said:

Warframe abilities rank up as your Warframe levels up. Sentinels (and pets) should also do this, yet they do not.

So you want to turn the sentinel specific abilities into non-removable abilities that level up with the sentinels?  How will I prevent my sentinel from attacking enemies when I am affinity farming via melee stealth attacks?

[Xekrin]

3 minutes ago, Bibliothekar said:

This. Mods are upgrades to your warframe/weapon/whatever. And you can't put the same upgrade on two different things at the same time

While this is an obvious reason, it will cause some issues with new players fresh to the sentinels who will be really confused, annoyed and frustrated that they cant mod both at the same time.

[Skaleek]

I guess I'm for this... I could make a killing off all my duplicate maxed primed mods.

[ChuckMaverick]

3 minutes ago, Noamuth said:

Ahh, having their abilities be inherint and auto ranking.

Yes, please.  I'd be willing to drop two mod slots for that, just like we did when Warframes when from ability mods to inherent.

You choose which warframe abilities to use and when by pressing '1', '2', etc.

You wouldn't be able to do the same for your sentinel, the only control you currently have is by adjusting which precept mods you use and in which order.

[Xiusa]

Just now, Aniawn said:

Basically, a mod can only be installed on one active equipment item.  If two patients need a new heart, and you only have one available, you can only give the heart to one of the patients.

 

So you want to turn the sentinel specific abilities into non-removable abilities that level up with the sentinels?  How will I prevent my sentinel from attacking enemies when I am affinity farming via melee stealth attacks?

Pretty sure way back in the days of old, this exact same thing was applied to Warframes and Weapons. I know this mostly because the friend that got me into this game had multiple copies so that he could use a mod without needing to remove it and apply it to another Warframe

I mean you are always allowed to remove the weapon from a Sentinel? This is also mostly about a new player seeing the mod conflicting stuff and probably being turned away from it, if you want to talk about your super epic noscoping melee farms for massive affinity gainzzz do it elsewhere please

[Aniawn]

1 minute ago, Xiusa said:

Pretty sure way back in the days of old, this exact same thing was applied to Warframes and Weapons. I know this mostly because the friend that got me into this game had multiple copies so that he could use a mod without needing to remove it and apply it to another Warframe

I mean you are always allowed to remove the weapon from a Sentinel? This is also mostly about a new player seeing the mod conflicting stuff and probably being turned away from it, if you want to talk about your super epic noscoping melee farms for massive affinity gainzzz do it elsewhere please

 

[MagPrime]

3 minutes ago, ChuckMaverick said:

You choose which warframe abilities to use and when by pressing '1', '2', etc.

You wouldn't be able to do the same for your sentinel, the only control you currently have is by adjusting which precept mods you use and in which order.

Yes, I am aware how the current system works.

My Sentinel does it's own thing, mainly.  The only concern I give when modding is to make sure Vacuum is in the primary slot.  If I don't want it to attack, I remove it's weapon.  IIRC, that works for All but one, Dirigia, since it has multiple attack mods that are placed on the Sentinel and not it's weapon.

By inhernt abilities, I'm referring to Shades invisibilty, and other abilities like it.

Edited February 9, 2017 by Noamuth
I hate this phone. So. Much.

[Rauxon]

7 minutes ago, Aniawn said:

So you want to turn the sentinel specific abilities into non-removable abilities that level up with the sentinels?  How will I prevent my sentinel from attacking enemies when I am affinity farming via melee stealth attacks?

1) Use something like shade - it only attacks once something attacks you.  At that point you've already been detected, so the stealth attack issue is no longer relevant.

2) Don't equip a weapon.

(I currently use a combination of both of the above - I have shade with an attack precept, I don't bother changing mods on sentinels that much, and run either with or without a weapon depending on the mood I'm in.

 

Also - don't equip the coolant leak, that doesn't work well for stealth melee.

[ChuckMaverick]

2 minutes ago, Noamuth said:

My Sentinel does it's own thing, mainly.  The only concern I give when modding is to make sure Vacuum is in the primary slot.  If I don't want it to attack, I remove it's weapon.  IIRC, that works for All but one, Dirigia, since it has multiple attack mods that are placed on the Sentinel and not it's weapon.

Except the same system is also used for Kubrows and Kavats, which have more active abilities and need to prioritise them carefully.

[Rauxon]

Just now, Noamuth said:

By inhernt abilities, I'm referring to Shades invisibilty, and other abilities like it.

So you want to be able to choose whether your sentinel goes invis (or the like)?  The answer is that decision is based on which sentinel you take, and whether you equip a weapon or not.

It's likely that the sentinel specific precept would become the innate ability - so if you want a 'doesn't change anything', just take carrier... The ammo change ability has (as far as I can see) no downside, or game changing affect other than reducing the likelihood of running out of ammunition.

I like the control of choosing abilities, but there are ways around it even if they go innate.  I am not however recommending this change - sentinels work fine for me as they are, and although aligning them with the change that was made to warframes (since abilities used to be mods) would make sense it does not seem a compelling argument.

This would also, likely, end up with power creep - and we've had enough of that thanks.

[MagPrime]

4 minutes ago, ChuckMaverick said:

Except the same system is also used for Kubrows and Kavats, which have more active abilities and need to prioritise them carefully.

OP is only referring to Sentinels due to conflicting mods, not the other companions, and so am I.

 

[MagPrime]

6 minutes ago, Rauxon said:

So you want to be able to choose whether your sentinel goes invis (or the like)?  

Shade makes the Waframe invis, not just itself.  And if I don't want that, I won't take the Sentinel.

I'm talking about making the ability to turn you invisible into an inherent abilty, one you don't have to use a mod card for.

[Aniawn]

31 minutes ago, Xiusa said:

Pretty sure way back in the days of old, this exact same thing was applied to Warframes and Weapons. I know this mostly because the friend that got me into this game had multiple copies so that he could use a mod without needing to remove it and apply it to another Warframe

That is true.  They removed that restriction as it was a burden on the game and players to know which of their five serrations were on which weapons and such.

 

31 minutes ago, Xiusa said:

[...] if you want to talk about your super epic noscoping melee farms for massive affinity gainzzz do it elsewhere please

I unfortunately have no horn to toot.  I apologies if I gave you that impression.  I was trying to give a situation in which I would not want my sentinel to be attacking enemies at all.

You are right, I could uninstall the weapon. But what about sentinel abilities like Dethube's Vaporize, Diriga's Electro Pulse and Arc Coil, Djinn's Fatal Attraction, or Taxon's Molecular Conversion which do not need a weapon equipped in order for the sentinels to use them?

Edited February 9, 2017 by Aniawn

[ChuckMaverick]

24 minutes ago, Noamuth said:

OP is only referring to Sentinels due to conflicting mods, not the other companions, and so am I.

Conflicting mods only apply to sentinel weapons, not sentinels. The OP also referred to changing the way sentinel abilities work from precept mods to innate.

Changing abilities for sentinels would also change them for other companions, as they all share the same system. Unless you're proposing to use different ability systems for different types of companions, which just seems even more confusing than the current state of affairs.