Limbo Rework Discussion and Feedback

[MokutoBunshi]

Only thing really left to address is how limbo can still put a cataclysm over an area with loot and without vacuum, players still can't get it till it ends.

Also I am OKAY with the overload function. BUT, in situations where you would most NEED to stop a hail of bullets you will overload your rift and because that was a situation with a hail of bullets you WILL die without your abilities. I am OKAY with IF you were to give us a way to do something after it overloads or have maybe alternate abilities while it over loads at least. Best thing would for it to either NOT overload or MAYBE be duration based? You can even nerf his 3rd ability and switch them to allow for this greater power (or maybe even switch with his ult). But this WILL get us killed A LOT.

Here is why:

Vauban (a similar strategic frame) has his 3...

Rhinos ult HAS "STASIS" (which still plays an animation unlike limbos :P). That's not even a suitable ability for a tank and he has 0 possible penalties. In fact his 1 gets more damage when he does it.

So anyways, I hope you guys keep working at this because the rest seems AWESOME.

 

Actually:

 

]\'[

[Bobtm]

2 hours ago, Azamagon said:

Huh... I knew most of that, and I have similar concerns.

But the Banish only bringing stuff into the plane you are in... that is ANOTHER worry. What about that time you send an enemy inside the Rift, you notice you can't handle it and want to unbanish it again? Then you have to go OUT of the Rift, potentially getting killed by other enemies, while trying to unrift the first target. How... clunky and irritating!

If Banish was like this:
* Tapcast is single target, and reverses the target's current state.
* Holdcast is AoE, and puts all target's in the same state Limbo is in.

This gives you everything you need. Single target is precise and easy to manipulate, rift-wise. AoE is easy for multikililng and such, but it requires Limbo to jump more back and forth with his own state. Both have clear ups and downs.

Everything else I agreed with though. Please check my ideas down here (and add the Banish-thought from above):

I hadn't considered that specific circumstance with regards to Banish, and yeah that's definitely another concern.  Completely agree with everything you noted there.

After reading through the rest of your post, it all looks like very well thought out and on point notes.  I sincerely hope that DE takes what you've mentioned into account for the Limbo changes.  Otherwise things are going to be rather bleak for Limbo players from a squad-based perspective.

Also just to single it out, I really like your suggested tweak to the dodge-rift passive.  Having the ability to work it in as a stationary effect as well is a nice little touch.

[2Peter3Nine]

On 2/17/2017 at 2:20 PM, FelanGrey said:

For me the biggest problem of rift is, that you can't take loot.

So, I suggest to let pick up loot and, maybe, interact with objects that are in range of Cataclysm.

If that's a problem then leave the rift, grap your * and get back in.

[MokutoBunshi]

3 hours ago, Azamagon said:

Huh... I knew most of that, and I have similar concerns.

But the Banish only bringing stuff into the plane you are in... that is ANOTHER worry. What about that time you send an enemy inside the Rift, you notice you can't handle it and want to unbanish it again? Then you have to go OUT of the Rift, potentially getting killed by other enemies, while trying to unrift the first target. How... clunky and irritating!

If Banish was like this:
* Tapcast is single target, and reverses the target's current state.
* Holdcast is AoE, and puts all target's in the same state Limbo is in.

This gives you everything you need. Single target is precise and easy to manipulate, rift-wise. AoE is easy for multikililng and such, but it requires Limbo to jump more back and forth with his own state. Both have clear ups and downs.

Everything else I agreed with though. Please check my ideas down here (and add the Banish-thought from above):

 

9 hours ago, Azamagon said:

From what we have heard about Limbo, I'm personally very interested about his rework (as the ideas have potential), but not unexpectedly, there seems to be a ton of dangerous flaws added in it.

Let's carefully and constructively inspect each ability, and then delve into how they could be finetuned to perfection!

 

Passive: With a small tweak, I'd love this passive. But as it is, it has some issues.

The excuse was "Limbo has difficulties picking up loot". That's not really being helped by this passive, as now not only you STILL have to toggle in/out of the Rift, now you HAVE to move as well! So, it adds more issues than helps, in that regard.
Also, LIMBO is less concerned about loot than teammates (especially if you use Carrier), as he better control when he wants to pick it up. His teammates on the other hand...
Further, he will have less parkourability, at least without affecting his Rift-state. I bet we'd get used to this though, so this doesn't concern me much personally.

That said, the rework does allow more abilities to be different, which I really like. The passive can work, but it does require a simple addition:

CHANGES: Standing still and pressing roll = Shifting in/out of the Rift, WITHOUT dashing. If you wanna dash, you have to move at the same time. Now he can still be a good sniper, among other stuff he already was good at when he had Rift Walk. It simply adds options, which is always good.

 

Banish: Plainly making it AoE is actually NOT a good idea, as that would remove a big and important part of his toolkit: Precision. This precision is what makes him so useful for singling out dangerous foes to 1vs1 them, or to aid Rescue targets (etc) with little concerns. AoE Banish as an OPTION, that would be great, no doubt.

CHANGES: Tap for single cast, Hold for AoE cast. Again, options are always good. Just make sure that Limbo is unaffected by the AoE Banish. If he wants to go out, he has to do so by choice with his new "roll".

 

Stasis: I like the premise, but not the heap of drawbacks and trolling power. Having a drawback sounds fitting (fits his Lore, and as a balancing to a VERY potent CC), but the suggested "kick Limbo out of the Rift for a duration" sounds like a really sadistic and overblown penalty. And the ability to FURTHER reduce your teammates' potency is not cool, obviously.

CHANGES: Freeze enemies and their projectiles, but not ALLIED projectiles (or their activity, ofc). As for the penalty, speed up how quickly the abiliy fades the more enemies are caught (don't count enemy projectiles though, that's just too much), but remove the "kick out Limbo out of Rift for a duration"-penalty entirely. This means you still have to be careful with how many enemies you control, but not with such extreme risk.

 

Rift Surge: Death-explosions sound nice, as it seems to add a tool in Limbo's kit to do stuff (partially) cross-rift. But random and uncontrollable mini-cataclysms? That is just something that is gonna get Limbo players killed, even good ones, as it can be out of their control after all. Especially so if you consider the current Stasis-penalties (less so if Stasis changed as suggested, but it would still carry potential issues).

CHANGES: Scrap the minicataclysms entirely, they are just too dangerous and random.
Mechanically, make the ability an Accelerant-esque cast: Make it a recastable ability with enemies in the castradius being debuffed (causing them to explode on death) and grants Limbo a selfbuff (he deals more damage whenever he attacks from inside the Rift). Simple, controllable, useful. It keeps his old tool (enhanced damage), while adding something that works both from any side of the rift and to any side of the rift (death explosions).

 

Cataclysm: Adding a stun is neat and all, making it more workable and less risky, but this ability can have so much more fun potency and control in it. I'll just go straight to the suggested changes.

CHANGES: Multiple ideas here:
* Don't allow enemies to exit the sphere by themselves (no hard-CC when touching the shrinking walls though).
* Enemies in Cataclysm hurt by Banish will be expelled violently with ragdoll. This gives some actual distinct use between the AoE they both can provide, and further  adds more fine control to his kit.
* Holdcast it when active to quickly shrink the sphere's size manually. Going for low power range shouldn't feel so "necessary" (although, Stasis helps with that a big bunch too, I bet).

 

Rift in general - The Rift still has a lot of trolling power. Lots of its irritating issues has been left unchanged, as far as we know.

CHANGES: Multiple suggestions
* Allow looting, picking up and carrying of any items cross-rift. I mean, you can still hold your weapons, no? Why not loot etc? Logic explanation: You and your allies can "banish" small stuff that you touch. Enemies can't affect stuff across the Rift, because they aren't using Warframes.
* Possibly also allow allies and Limbo to hack when in the Rift via Banish, but if doing so, the player greatly speeds up the remaining Rift-duration (meaning, reducing the time you have left to stay in the Rift). This reduces lots of irritation for the whole team, but it still has downsides as you will not being protected for as long. I mean, using invisibility allows you to (generally) more safely hack than what the Rift would, so why not, right?
Note: If hacking is done inside a Cataclysm-sphere though, there doesn't need to be any duration-penalties, as enemies can still come in and hurt you.

 

I think this will solve most issues with the rework, along with old problems too.

Thoughts and opinions?

 

 

I agree with all of this ESPECIALLY with the mini cataclysms.

Also I REALLY like "BANISH" Banishing/ejecting enemies from the cataclysm and thus from the rift!

 

]\'[

Edited February 18, 2017 by MokutoBunshi

[2Peter3Nine]

Dodge ste into/out of rift is bad because some players actually use the dodge function.

If you can make it so you have to hold the dodge button to rift shift that would be great.

 

AoE banish is bad because you don't want to banish level 100 enemies along with your hostage.

If you made it so taping the powering is a single target cast, while holding the power did the AoE cast, that would be great.

 

Time stop is bad because getting locked out of your powers just because there was to much going on is to big of a penalty.

One mirage comes along and you'll never be able to use your powers.

If it worked like Bastille, where when it gets to it's max, any excess enemies and projectiles are unaffected, that would be great.

 

rift surge making smaller rift pockets everywhere is bad because,

what if one opens up on a bombard behind you? you dead.

what if one opens up and a crowd of enemies shooting at something? you can't use powers anymore if stasis was on.

the last thing limbo needs is uncontrollable pockest of the rift opening up everywhere.

if the surge made rift tears instead of bubbles, that can be hit with banish to open, that would be great.

 

cataclysm is okay, but it's his ultimate power and should do something more then just damage, knockdown, damage.

if it also made enemies inside it deal less damage t would be great.

 

 

[Cimbro94]

Anyway for anyone who hasn't watched the stream the cap on the number of enemies/projectile paused within the rift is because too much enemies AI and too many bullets can have performance issues on older PCs.... That's the main reason and Scott mentioned as "it can burn cookers"

[Tesseract7777]

After watching the devstream (well the Limbo part anyway) a couple more times, there are some things I am definitely wondering about that concern me a little. 

Do you and your allies still regenerate energy within the rift? 

If Limbo now has the roll into and out of the rift passive, does he still get to keep current passive where he gets increased reload and holster speed in the rift as well? 

Does his new third ability actually provide any damage amplification, or is that being completely taken away? Are we going to expect to get the weapon damage multiplier only from using an augment or something now? Are they going to retool Rift Torrent to be an optional add on for damage increase?

And Cataclysm. In the video, you cannot pick up objects in the rift when you are normally in the rift, but you can in Cataclysm. I don't want to get my hopes up. Was this really for real? I really sincerely hope so. Limbo really needs it. It would actually make sense. When in Cataclysm you can pick up objects because it makes a rift pocket and essentially drags the entire area/environment into the rift (why else would it be able to protect defense objectives?), so it makes sense you can in a Cataclysm. Not being able to hack/pick up after just normally rolling into the rift makes more sense though, because you didn't pull the console into the rift (make a big rift pocket), you just took yourself into the rift. So the question here is, was that just for the dev build or will we really get to pick up in Cataclysm? Because of not, with being able to create mini cataclysm as well, and all the range mods we have, the trolling potential could only go up. Someone could theoretically keep a very vast area almost permanently covered in rift pockets and prevent anyone from getting pickups. That may need to be toned down. 

My other concern is the whole "punishing you for too many projectiles/enemies" thing by pushing you out of the rift. They need to be careful not to make that too punishing. This is an incredibly hectic and fast paced game, and it seems almost ludicrous to suggest that we would be able to that easily keep track of the limit of enemies and projectiles, to avoid getting kicked out of the rift and put on this cooldown thing... If we are going to have even the possibility of a cooldown being forced on us, it needs to be really easy in a very fast paced situation to know how to avoid that happening. 

This is Warframe, and it is an extremely fast paced horde game. I think to be honest, the whole "kick you out of the rift with a cooldown thing" just needs to be removed. Unless they can find an entirely different way to do it. I wouldn't mind it if I could be certain I could predict when it could happen with enough practice, but with the current proposed way it would work, there are far too many variables for me to control, what with it taking ally and enemy projectiles into account... 

Edit: 

One more thing. Banish should be able to tap for aoe and hold for single target (with an option like Vauban and his minelayer where you can toggle which way you prefer it in your settings). This is a no brainer and should be relatively easy to code. More control is never a bad thing. 

Edited February 19, 2017 by Tesseract7777

[BalaDeSilver]

I have think a bit, and NPC's showld definitely be stopped by Stasis. I don't want the Sortie Defense target to keep walking around autistically like he/she always do.

[2Peter3Nine]

45 minutes ago, Cimbro94 said:

Anyway for anyone who hasn't watched the stream the cap on the number of enemies/projectile paused within the rift is because too much enemies AI and too many bullets can have performance issues on older PCs.... That's the main reason and Scott mentioned as "it can burn cookers"

Yeah, we heard them.

And you know what they could make happen when it's max is reached instead of turning off your powers and disabling them for a time?

Make it like bastille, once it's at max, any extra that enter the AoE are unaffected.

[BalaDeSilver]

3 minutes ago, General_Durandal said:

Yeah, we heard them.

And you know what they could make happen when it's max is reached instead of turning off your powers and disabling them for a time?

Make it like bastille, once it's at max, any extra that enter the AoE are unaffected.

Or just vanish pre existing bullets without any damage (to be fair with balancing, I actually feel like this is going to be REALLY OP anyways, everyone who watched X Man knows that)

Edited February 19, 2017 by BalaDeSilver

[2Peter3Nine]

13 minutes ago, BalaDeSilver said:

Or just vanish pre existing bullets without any damage (to be fair with balancing, I actually feel like this is going to be REALLY OP anyways, everyone who watched X Man knows that)

Oooooo that would be cool!

but the other players would be like, "whaaa my ammo was wasted"

[Delamir]

First of all, i want you to know that rework look amazing, there is a couple of things that i cant wait to be more specific like how many projectiles i can have in the rift etc.

I have the most fun with Limbo in the game, i really only play him, it's a make or break for me and Warframe depending on the Limbo rework.

I wont say anymore, as i know it's still in development, but so far it's looking good. There is one thing that worries me though. The new passive to me still looks a bit clunky the way you have to do it. It's a really good idea, but the execution dont look reliable enough to me.

When Rebecca showed it, she was moving around all the time when she walked through dimensions, is it possible to rift walk while you are standing still?

When i play Limbo now, most of the time i pop out of the rift when i'm standing still, it can be in front of consoles, or enemies or what ever but if it moves me every time, its going to mess up my position.

Anyway as i said, really good job on the rework.

If you need any testers outside of DE, i would like to help you try out the new Limbo.

[Nokah]

Here is what we currently know about these powers. Please keep this in mind when criticizing the design of the Limbo rework.

BANISH: Is now AoE. This is offset by Stasis. This remains his way to precisely manage which enemies he pulls into the Void.

STASIS: Za warudo. Timestop. Enemies can be meleed or point blank shot: as long as the hitbox hits the enemy hitbox, it will register as a hit, no matter if the projectile is paused or not. (Rebecca point blank shot an enemy with her primary, which killed it while everything was still paused.)

The limits on this ability as we were shown it: We saw up to 15 enemies be paused in the Rift at once. Additionally, up to 25+ projectiles were paused. Assuming the limit is scalar and non-moot, Stasis cannot be dismissed as "not viable" simply because of a stated upper limit.

RIFT SURGE: Charges enemies inside of the Rift with arc lightning when they die. If they're removed from the Rift, they pop into mini-Catacylsms. Because you control when enemies are or are not in the Rift unless you let a Banish or Cataclysm expire, there is not any risk of unplanned mini-Cataclysms unless you as Limbo lose control of the situation.

CATACLYSM: This remains the same, but drops can be picked up while in the Cataclysm Rift. We see Rebecca pick up Ferrite and life support modules. Whether Limbo can use this to interact with objects remains uncertain.

On the terms of Stasis, Cataclysm has always been Limbo opening the door to the Rift for everyone: enemies and allies alike. This lets him define and control a space. Banish allows Limbo some control over who enters the Rift and who doesn't. Cataclysm offers Limbo no control over who does/doesn't enter in order to give him control over a space.

Stasis most likely will not be incredibly useful with Cataclysm. It can be used for smaller groups, but of course, larger groups will suffer.

Rift Surge also will not have enemies create mini-Cataclysms unless Limbo lets enemies exit the Void, which is something he is almost entirely in control of, not counting Cataclysm.

Arguing that Stasis doesn't play nice with Cataclysm is misunderstanding the way Stasis is intended to be used. It can stop groups of enemies you catch with Cataclysm - but Banish is cheaper, more precise, and lets you exert a fine control over who's in, and who's out.

[EDM774]

Long ago back when coptering was a thing I got spoilt for speed. After they removed it I adapted to the new movement system combining bullet jumps rolls aim glides etc. to keep my speed trough the tileset. What wories me the most is the fact that I might have to sacrifice the roll portion of my speed run combo to avoid accidental rift walking. I really hope they come up with some sort of backup or a way to keep the normal roll and execute his rift walk roll in a different way.

Edited February 19, 2017 by EDM774

[Evanescent]

Right now the overload limit will make or break the rework.

Other frames have comparable 'stasis' abilities that are easier to use and have no such drawback. If the overload is too ridiculous, it will drive Limbo even further down.

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

8 hours ago, PsiWarp said:

There's something I noticed (probably someone else did too): when Rebecca banished that Heavy Gunner and used Stasis, she then banished the Corrupted Ancient which was also frozen in time, but the Heavy Gunner was not unbanished from the AoE. Same thing happened with the Corrupted Butchers near the Life Support.

So I'm curious to see if Stasis is active, then unbanishing doesn't work?

My guess is there are some rulings to the AoE that Banish now has that they didn't mention. You'd think the AoE would make the Gunner and the Ancient swap planes but they didn't. Maybe the banish and un-banish hitboxes are different from each other. Who knows how it also affects allies. If I banish a rescue target, will I also banish all the enemies around the rescue target?

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

6 hours ago, (PS4)mr_chainsaw555 said:

wait, will rift surge still have the damage buff it always had?

They didn't say it was removed. They just said it does some new things. Not sure that its ability to make little rift bubbles from enemies is a good thing. though.

[corrosivePaladin]

21 hours ago, General_Durandal said:

And then if you don't like it, it'll be three years before they work on him again.

So? I personally don't like most frames. I prefer tanks. but I'm not going to get hyped over something that is still subject to change. Its almost fully working. It AI wasnt properly pausing during the livestream. But they even said that it could still change, and even things like the bluudborne dash would be changed to have an energy cost. A wip can be great but the final outcome could be lesser then expected.

I honestly wouldn't expect them to work on Limbo ever again outside of augments after this. But I won't be hyped until its out and it feels good in player's hands.

[2Peter3Nine]

4 hours ago, Nokah said:

Here is what we currently know about these powers. Please keep this in mind when criticizing the design of the Limbo rework.

BANISH: Is now AoE. This is offset by Stasis. This remains his way to precisely manage which enemies he pulls into the Void.

STASIS: Za warudo. Timestop. Enemies can be meleed or point blank shot: as long as the hitbox hits the enemy hitbox, it will register as a hit, no matter if the projectile is paused or not. (Rebecca point blank shot an enemy with her primary, which killed it while everything was still paused.)

The limits on this ability as we were shown it: We saw up to 15 enemies be paused in the Rift at once. Additionally, up to 25+ projectiles were paused. Assuming the limit is scalar and non-moot, Stasis cannot be dismissed as "not viable" simply because of a stated upper limit.

RIFT SURGE: Charges enemies inside of the Rift with arc lightning when they die. If they're removed from the Rift, they pop into mini-Catacylsms. Because you control when enemies are or are not in the Rift unless you let a Banish or Cataclysm expire, there is not any risk of unplanned mini-Cataclysms unless you as Limbo lose control of the situation.

CATACLYSM: This remains the same, but drops can be picked up while in the Cataclysm Rift. We see Rebecca pick up Ferrite and life support modules. Whether Limbo can use this to interact with objects remains uncertain.

On the terms of Stasis, Cataclysm has always been Limbo opening the door to the Rift for everyone: enemies and allies alike. This lets him define and control a space. Banish allows Limbo some control over who enters the Rift and who doesn't. Cataclysm offers Limbo no control over who does/doesn't enter in order to give him control over a space.

Stasis most likely will not be incredibly useful with Cataclysm. It can be used for smaller groups, but of course, larger groups will suffer.

Rift Surge also will not have enemies create mini-Cataclysms unless Limbo lets enemies exit the Void, which is something he is almost entirely in control of, not counting Cataclysm.

Arguing that Stasis doesn't play nice with Cataclysm is misunderstanding the way Stasis is intended to be used. It can stop groups of enemies you catch with Cataclysm - but Banish is cheaper, more precise, and lets you exert a fine control over who's in, and who's out.

The game isn't only about killing the enemies.

Sometimes, you need to defend a hostage.

Limbo is the best for that, pin point precision accuracy banish ensures that the hostage is the only one that gets banished.

Giving it an AoE not only turns that sniper rifle accuracy into a shotgun.

Worst part of all, his best build utilizes max range,

meaning his banish would now be banishing much larger amounts of enemies at a time,

when you don't want to banish more than one person at any one time.

Limbo is about controlling the battlefield, AoE banish and random rift pocket crating surge turns limbo's orderly battlefield control into a chaotic mess.

[PsiWarp]

Still need to see if there's any progress on Banish's buff effect for ally players. Now that the ability is AoE (which hopefully becomes tap = single target / hold = multi-target or even Bladestorm-esque marking), Limbo can very easily throw allies into the Rift by accident when they least expect or want it.

The current opt-out via roll & backflip isn't enough to deter trolling, especially since the Rift Plane forces held items to drop, prevents pickup, no interacting with objects period, even auto-failing hacking consoles (why was this oversight unfixed?)

Ideally, let Limbo grant allies access to the Rift, but let players themselves decide their preferred plane once the buff is active. For example, Limbo's new dash to toggle between dimensions, maybe add that functionality for banished players when they roll (doesn't cancel the buff anymore), then don't let Limbo forcibly unbanish them while their buffs are still active- bam, control is in the teammates' hands, with Limbo politely empowering his teammates and be on his merry way focusing on freezing enemies in the Rift.

Trying to babysit teammates' plane states while avoiding throwing too many enemies into the Rift feels like a nightmare. Of course we don't know the exact specifics for new Banish, and it's probably already been reiterated after the Devstream. Doesn't hurt to be sure!

Edited February 19, 2017 by PsiWarp

[Nokah]

3 minutes ago, General_Durandal said:

The game isn't only about killing the enemies.

Sometimes, you need to defend a hostage.

Limbo is the best for that, pin point precision accuracy banish ensures that the hostage is the only one that gets banished.

Giving it an AoE not only turns that sniper rifle accuracy into a shotgun.

Worst part of all, his best build utilizes max range,

meaning his banish would now be banishing much larger amounts of enemies at a time,

when you don't want to banish more than one person at any one time.

Limbo is about controlling the battlefield, AoE banish and random rift pocket crating surge turns limbo's orderly battlefield control into a chaotic mess.

Defending a hostage is literally the only instance you can think of, dude. We aren't even mentioning that the hostage defense design in this game gives you situations where the hostage isn't surrounded with enemies, which means banishing him is easy if you have a duration build (which Limbo usually does). Any situation where you're banishing a hostage out of a group of enemies is a failure on Limbo's part to actually control the flow.

Furthermore, the main reason he's used in Sorties is Hostage Defense. Based on the fact Limbo can't banish a defense objective normally, I'd suspect this is already kind of an abuse of the ability anyway - Limbo's absolute defense tactic is probably against the dev's intentions.

Here's a point: CCing enemies is effectively taking them out of the game. There's no reason to not combine your Stasis and your Banish now, which means that instead of banishing 1 target and facing 1 target, you banish multiple targets and effectively face 0 of them.

This all defends on the Stasis cap, but enemies tend to viably clump at about an amount close to 15-20. We know that'd work under Stasis, so there's no reason for us to care.

The random rift pockets and the AoE banish are well within Limbo's control - and when they're not, it's because Limbo lost control in the first place. 

And again, this has been told to you repeatedly, by multiple people. I get that you like how Limbo is, but you aren't about to lose anything meaningful from his original style. You will be able to adapt. Stop fearing change, dude. You will be able to do as you want to.

[Tesseract7777]

Most of the concerns about Banish would be fixed if they simply allowed us to tap/hold to choose whether it was aoe or single target. 

[Nokah]

3 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Most of the concerns about Banish would be fixed if they simply allowed us to tap/hold to choose whether it was aoe or single target. 

And since most people have suggested it, I bet they're probably gonna do something like that. It wouldn't be too hard, and it seems like their style.

Some of us are acting like Banish is forever stuck as AoE only, when the problems with it have been discussed, and even though it's definitely something we all want to see, most of the scenarios being proposed where single target is preferable to AoE for Limbo are actually nonissues.

[Death_Master_]

For me there a re two problems in what i seen on devstream:

1) First ability should be controllable so i can take only ONE enemy/ally into rift.

Example situation: Squadmate down and there are 4 toxic eximuses and flying toxic drones swarming around him.

I want to take only him there, not a crowd that will kill me just by auras and clouds. 

2) Replacing roll will cause mobility limitation because to move fast i use slide-roll-bulletjump combo all the time.

And when i'm Limbo i do not want to be outside of the rift at all(except 1-2 sec to pick all loot floating around my sentinel), i prefer take into rift mobs i wish to kill.

 

[2Peter3Nine]

3 hours ago, Nokah said:

Defending a hostage is literally the only instance you can think of, dude. We aren't even mentioning that the hostage defense design in this game gives you situations where the hostage isn't surrounded with enemies, which means banishing him is easy if you have a duration build (which Limbo usually does). Any situation where you're banishing a hostage out of a group of enemies is a failure on Limbo's part to actually control the flow.

Furthermore, the main reason he's used in Sorties is Hostage Defense. Based on the fact Limbo can't banish a defense objective normally, I'd suspect this is already kind of an abuse of the ability anyway - Limbo's absolute defense tactic is probably against the dev's intentions.

Here's a point: CCing enemies is effectively taking them out of the game. There's no reason to not combine your Stasis and your Banish now, which means that instead of banishing 1 target and facing 1 target, you banish multiple targets and effectively face 0 of them.

This all defends on the Stasis cap, but enemies tend to viably clump at about an amount close to 15-20. We know that'd work under Stasis, so there's no reason for us to care.

The random rift pockets and the AoE banish are well within Limbo's control - and when they're not, it's because Limbo lost control in the first place. 

And again, this has been told to you repeatedly, by multiple people. I get that you like how Limbo is, but you aren't about to lose anything meaningful from his original style. You will be able to adapt. Stop fearing change, dude. You will be able to do as you want to.

I've already told you all the ways limbo is useful, i'm not typing it again.

 

You think that's op?

What are your thoughts on Nidus? He's not OP?

 

I'd rather be a sniper rifle then a shotgun. AoE banish is a shotgun.

 

Then mirage with a simulore, or anyone with a soma or grakata,

starts shooting and you're out of powers for x seconds.

It only takes 1 second to die in sortie missions.

 

Limbo is the master and creator of the rift, he shouldn't be able to lose control of it so easily and randomly.

 

What is your favorite frame?

What is your favorite play style with that frame?

What if they change something about that frame that makes that playstyle less rewarding and more hazardous?

 

I have an IQ 149, i'm a strategist, Limbo is a strategist, removing his pinpoint finesse will hurt him overall.

You might not care about any of that, and will probably not read any of this,

but I want you to know, that fearing bad change is acceptable.

Especially when you have calculated the outcome, and it has a vastly higher margin for failure.

New limbo will be cool, there is no doubt, he will even be slightly more scary,

but if they keep him as shown, without any polish, and with that, "loose rift powers for x time for over-using it",

then he will be unfairly handicapped compared to others like wukong, nidus, valkyr, nyx even ember.

Why be someone with bad range, that can kinda stop time, with the chance of not being able to use his powers,

when you can be someone that can make everyone fight each other, and mind control bosses.