Limbo Rework Discussion and Feedback

[Ostrichofninja]

I should have reread this, it's messy. 

[AlphaPHENIX]

Reminds me of how everything looked while Frodo has the one ring on. Any way ya it really should be made less intense, especially for people with eye problems. (Can confirm this as I am currently going through a lot of trouble with my right eye, on top of being short sighted)

Sorry to hear about your arm, but I do support this as long appropriate changes are made.

[Ostrichofninja]

Just now, AlphaPHENIX said:

Reminds me of how everything looked while Frodo has the one ring on. Any way ya it really should be made less intense, especially for people with eye problems. (Can confirm this as I am currently going through a lot of trouble with my right eye, on top of being short sighted)

Sorry to hear about your arm, but I do support this as long appropriate changes are made.

I didn't even think about how everything looked while Frodo has the one ring on, and because you mentioned it I want this even more.

Hope your right eye gets better.

[(XBOX)Sneak Attack 65]

That looks pretty cool. I would definitely support a less intense version of this.

[PsiWarp]

That's very awesome. It gives the "world behind the world" kinda vibe. Definitely worth exploring.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

On 2/28/2017 at 7:08 PM, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

I'm sure status procs don't activate from enemies outside the rift while he's in the rift. But if you get a status proc on the material plane, you can take the status proc with you if you go in the rift.

Maybe you're talking about environmental damage like the traps on the Kuva fortress. Those things inexplicably hurt Limbo while he's in the rift but environmental traps on Lua like ice floors or electric floors do not.

Juggernaut, hyekka flamers, gas clouds from infested...all of these while im in the rift. Im not pulling them in...im in, and they are proc'ing on me. Also kuva guardians can knock me down while im in and they are out and sometimes corpus mines take me out. If its a bug, its needs a serious fix.

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

But that's even more blinding. When you are in the rift, you get this phantom zone filter on you. On top of that, every enemy in the rift is engulfed in a large white flame. Now imagine dozens of enemies in Cataclysm. They should get rid of the filter effect because a player already has this ghostly fluctuating aura effect on them to indicate they are in the rift and simplify the white flame effect on enemies into something that looks similar to the player.

[(PSN)Zero-0-P]

On 3/1/2017 at 9:52 AM, W0wRUUD said:

I think the only big problem with stasis is the shutdown effect for going over the target limit. It makes it hard for limbo to be really good at CCing large crowds, and being "deactivated" is a devastating penalty, especially in high-level missions.

I agreed at first with everyone, however I thought about it and unless you are reckless and if you are a real Limbo player you are far from reckless. How challenging will it really be to Rift Walk and cut it off starting the timer over then cutting it back on. I would like a decent and realistic cap on it and as I stated in this thread earlier i believe it shouldn't have a duration timer or drain, just the initial cast cost and the Cap. I feel it fit with his lore, he is the only frame to have blown up due to his powers. I like it because it fits if you know what I mean. Though I do understand the concern as I have it as well. All we can can do is hope they see what's being posted and address it before release . I would  like a prerelease look but that may be wishful thinking.

[(PSN)Zero-0-P]

Ok we have talked about the rework until we are almost blue in the face in another thread of mine " Limbo rework pros and cons". If you haven't checked it out you should, a lot of great Warframers with great ideas.

This though is about a statement made by DE during the "dev stream 88". They state that Limbo would either have his augments change (which is most likely) or they are going to be adding new ones. So this is our chance to be serious but have fun and come up with some really cool augments. I have given my opinions about the changes and made my piece, so this this thread is dedicated to the augment mods.

Ok so far I only have one and I know I'm going to catch a lot of flak on this one. Following the lore Limbo tries a jump that is to big and it split him apart. Now the good part.

Augment( Rift Jump)for the new Rift Surge or Cataclysm or both: If Limbo has multiple Cataclysms up while standing inside one of them if he Rift Walks he can Jump (teleport) to other rifts. First the idea is crazy you have to give me at least that hahahaha. However this will allow for crazy moves and it will allow him to keep the number of enemies in these mini Cataclysms down as he Jumps from Cataclysm to Cataclysm dispensing justice on his frozen foes. Now i did have the drawback where when he Jumps the last Cataclysm he was in explodes prematurely until he can't jump anymore because he has to create new Rift Surge Cataclysms. I'm not sure if I like the drawback though but as you are my warframe family I figured I would share it anyway.

So what do you think aboutmy idea for a augment and do you have any cool augments of your own for Limbo you think would be cool and that they may see and actually think is cool and do it, who knows!

Edited March 4, 2017 by (PS4)Zero-0-P

[Echorion]

Any augment to Za Wurldo would be awesome.

 

I don't think it works this way, but I really wish I could take a melee weapon like Hirudo and use it's quick jabs, then un pause time to make the target take the damage all at once. You could literally just be like ORA ORA ORA!

Edited March 4, 2017 by Echorion

[(PSN)psycofang]

I need an ETA on this, as a limbo main this rework sounds too sexy.

 

 

[(PSN)Zero-0-P]

28 minutes ago, Echorion said:

Any augment to Za Wurldo would be awesome.

 

I don't think it works this way, but I really wish I could take a melee weapon like Hirudo and use it's quick jabs, then un pause time to make the target take the damage all at once. You could literally just be like ORA ORA ORA!

Hahahahahahaha THAT WOULD BE EPIC! It doesn't work like that though and I'm glad it doesn't, I would so get carried away with that one. However the effects on that would look so cool. 

[Echorion]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Zero-0-P said:

Hahahahahahaha THAT WOULD BE EPIC! It doesn't work like that though and I'm glad it doesn't, I would so get carried away with that one. However the effects on that would look so cool. 

...and that's a problem why? :D

[(PSN)Zero-0-P]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)psycofang said:

I need an ETA on this, as a limbo main this rework sounds too sexy.

 

 

We are looking at two to four weeks. They say that he is the most complete of all of there projects. They may hold it for a bigger patch but I think this year to fix the mistakes of last year they may drop it earlier in a small patch to keep the players constantly getting new content, instead of waiting for this big drop for months. Especially when it comes to the console versions, however I could be wrong.

[(PSN)Zero-0-P]

9 minutes ago, Echorion said:

...and that's a problem why? :D

HAHAHAHA you know at first I was going to say why but then I forgot... this thread, my thread, is about augments hahaha. This is a wonderful augment and I think it would be very cool on Stasis as a augment. I stand corrected!  This remains a fully epic augment!

[(PSN)psycofang]

For console itll most likely be a combined patch considering certification.

[NecromancerX69]

+++Since DE did mention that having many enemies and shots inside cataclysm (overload) will turn your powers off for a short period of time.

I suggest a survival Mod for limbo.

 

Name: Cataclysm Outbreak

Effect: If the cataclysm were to be overloaded with enemies + shots it will explode, causing all enemies in line of sight to be blinded for half the seconds you remain without powers. The enemies also get radiation proc.

The benefits... You can perform finishers on the enemies before they regain their senses or simply allowing you to escape safely.

The backfire... Enemies that weren't in line of sight will try to turn you to shreds.

 

 

+++Another suggestion it's a random effect applied to enemies that get hit by cataclysm for the first time, not when they enter cataclysm.

 

Name: Bash from the rift

Effect: Enemies hit by cataclysm for the first time have a random 80% chance of getting confused, blinded, unable to move, unable to shot / attack. For a total of 10 sec. The enemies that don't get affected still fall to the ground but takes longer to get back up.

The benefits... Watching the enemies confused attack their own crippled allies inside the rift.

The backfire... Enemies can still get inside the cataclysm and wont get affected.

 

 

+++Last suggestion is in relation with the first one but with a twist.

 

Name: Wardens Paradise

Effect: If the Cataclysm gets overloaded, instead of losing all your powers and the cataclysm dying. It will trigger a lock down, enemies can no longer get inside the overloaded cataclysm, the enemies outside get the effect of repelling bastille. Limbo and his allies must kill all enemies inside the lock down cataclysm for it to be turned off early also the time stop can not be applied during the lock down and can't cast other powers by exception of limbo still getting inside and out of the rift. The lockdown will last a total of 60sec, once the seconds passes, the cataclysm will turn off and limbo will be allowed to use his other powers again.

Limbo and allies can get in and out of the cataclysm, but the enemies can't get out of the cataclysm.

The benefits... You can make choke points if used wisely, also good for defense missions.

The backfire... Getting a lock down with really scary enemies inside, getting a lock down next to a console you need to hack, etc.

[NecromancerX69]

1 hour ago, Echorion said:

Any augment to Za Wurldo would be awesome.

 

I don't think it works this way, but I really wish I could take a melee weapon like Hirudo and use it's quick jabs, then un pause time to make the target take the damage all at once. You could literally just be like ORA ORA ORA!

[Echorion]

7 minutes ago, NecromancerX69 said:

I wish they would have had the full combo in that gif, because he literally would have then been beating a dead horse at the end.

The perfect analogy for the combo.

Edited March 4, 2017 by Echorion

[(XBOX)Flyin junebug]

I'm personally very excited, but also very sad since i have put a lot of work into my limbo's rift surge build. Now it's getting completely changed from it's original. I only hope that it's just as effective as before though.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

On 28.2.2017 at 4:59 PM, bluepheonix13 said:

Iteresting idea, but I don't like it very much, because it would probably do weird things to our camera if we run through enemies.

They went full dragon age-arcane enchanter on him allready...might as well clone the void walk and add the teleport while they're at it.

Edited March 4, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[brainjelly2g0]

This would be super freaking cool. I don't even care if it would make me less effective as Limbo, just because I'd at last be able to pretend I'm some sort of Space Frodo(or Space Sam for like a day).

However, I say this should be an option, not a change. Even toned down, the current Rift filter is way easier to discern things through then that. 

[xxswatelitexx]

I am personally a big fan of Limbo - and I love the idea of his abilities but I think his current state and changes won't actually fix the issue over all.
With that said I want to open up a discussion on Why Limbo failed to gather a larger following.

• The biggest problems I feel with the current iteration of Limbo is - casting time is slow enough it can be considered suicidal in higher difficulties. By the time you shift to rift walk you are likely dead with that entire 3 second casting time. Same goes with cataclysm if you cast it on your self - the speed in which enemies get back up is faster then your casting animation resulting in insta death 20% of the time. 
• Another Main issue is Limbo's Cataclysm lacked suction. Enemies simply stood outside of his cataclysm and shot inside. If it cataclysm had innate suction and slowly dragged enemies inside it would allow Limbo to constantly get kills while standing inside. The second issue with cataclysm is of course it is so small it is impossible to dodge. If enemies sucked in got knocked down with a mandatory 2 second disable it would also solve the dodge issue. 

Fixing Limbo.

I think the rework has a few steps in the right direction and a few steps in the wrong.
One thing I believe should be done is All enemies in the rift should take Full or Some shared damage when a single enemy is damaged by Limbo.
That way it makes his powers synergistic. I can Place a large cat in a large group of enemies, and then place a single rift on an enemy some where else. That damage I do that single enemy is then transferred to all enemies in the rift ( those also in cataclysm ).  Throw in Rift Surge on top of that and all of a sudden Limbo becomes extremely viable. All of a sudden now I am damaging 20 - 30 enemies safely by just attacking a single lone enemy in a much safer location which would increase his survivability dramatically.

Especially with his rework where he can now rift groups of enemies being able to damage one gets shared among 3 - makes him having AoE weapons more meaningful as damage will be multiplied among enemies hit. Which would negate the need for rift surge. 

Issues with the Future Rework

Personally though I think his new concept of Time Freezing is really impractical in higher level areas where literally hundreds of enemies are swarming you. Who has time to sit around and place projectiles? It would be wasting one entire ability on a system that is only practical in very low level zones. Just remove time stop and bring back Rift Surge and with the ability to share damage among all enemies in rift, with rift dash and group rifting he will be perfect.

Edited March 5, 2017 by xxswatelitexx

[(PSN)MrNishi]

1 minute ago, xxswatelitexx said:

I am personally a big fan of Limbo - and I love the idea of his abilities but I think his current state and changes won't actually fix the issue over all.
With that said I want to open up a discussion on Why Limbo failed to gather a larger following.

• The biggest problems I feel with the current iteration of Limbo is - casting time is slow enough it can be considered suicidal in higher difficulties. By the time you shift to rift walk you are likely dead with that entire 3 second casting time. Same goes with cataclysm if you cast it on your self - the speed in which enemies get back up is faster then your casting animation resulting in insta death 20% of the time. 
• Another Main issue is Limbo's Cataclysm lacked suction. Enemies simply stood outside of his cataclysm and shot inside. If it cataclysm had innate suction and slowly dragged enemies inside it would allow Limbo to constantly get kills while standing inside. The second issue with cataclysm is of course it is so small it is impossible to dodge. If enemies sucked in got knocked down with a mandatory 2 second disable it would also solve the dodge issue. 

Fixing Limbo.

I think the rework has a few steps in the right direction and a few steps in the wrong.
One thing I believe should be done is All enemies in the rift should take Full or Some shared damage when a single enemy is damaged by Limbo.
That way it makes his powers synergistic. I can Place a large cat in a large group of enemies, and then place a single rift on an enemy some where else. That damage I do that single enemy is then transferred to all enemies in the rift ( those also in cataclysm ).  Throw in Rift Surge on top of that and all of a sudden Limbo becomes extremely viable. 

Especially with his rework where he can now rift groups of enemies being able to damage one gets shared among 3 - makes him having AoE weapons more meaningful as damage will be multiplied among enemies hit. Which would negate the need for rift surge. 

Issues with the Future Rework

Personally though I think his new concept of Time Freezing is really impractical in higher level areas where literally hundreds of enemies are swarming you. Who has time to sit around and place projectiles? It would be wasting one entire ability on a system that is only practical in very low level zones. Just remove time stop and bring back Rift Surge and with the ability to share damage among all enemies in rift, with rift dash and group rifting he will be perfect.

I didn't see that Rift Surge was removed.

Instead it sounded like Rift Walk was removed as an ability and made a passive ability.

-Rift Walks ability was replaced with Stasis which means Rift Surge was left intact.

I am not n the play test server so I am only going by what I saw sin the streams.

[Buzkyl]

In playing Limbo for awhile to get a better feel of him before his oncoming rework there's one ever present concern I keep coming across, many players don't know exactly what the rift does. And that's probably the biggest hindrance to having Limbo in a team, if you don't know how he works he's going to easily be seen as troll.

Let's go through some common questions  I've experienced.

 

• Why can't I pick up loot? (When banished or in cataclysm)
• What the hell is the rift?
• Why does my guns do no damage?
• Why can't the enemy damage me?
• Why can't I hack?
• And above all- How do i get out of the rift??

 

While Limbo's rework is going to make his skillset alot better, he is still going to find difficulty being part of a team because many players don't know how the rift works.

So let's go through some possible solutions

1.Put the Rift in the codex- Being part of Limbo's mechanic, Limbo's codex entry should also include various information about the Rift and what it does.

2.Tell player's it's possible to opt out of the Rift-This will greatly improve Limbo's time in dealing with new players. When Banished a message should appear to the player "Limbo has sent you to the another plane of existence, The Rift. You may leave this plane through dodging/rolling."

3.Inform players that you can only damage enemies on the same plane as you- Attempting to damage an enemy on a different plane should pop a message "The enemy is on a different plane of existence... you must fight them on the same plane...".

 

 

 

Edited March 8, 2017 by [DE]Danielle
Edited title for clarity