Ideas to make PvP more playable - It has potential!

[ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD]

To start off, it's no secret that PvP is ignored by the vast majority of the playerbase.

PvE has seen countless changes and updates over the years but ever since Conclave has been added not much has been brought to the table. More gamemodes were added, and there's events every so often, generally being the only time the servers fill up in PvP, then it dies off again after the event is over. I was thinking, why not bring new things to the table for PvP, I see a lot of potential. As of right now there's 3 gamemodes (not including lunaro). Essentially we have Free For All, Team Deathmatch, and Capture the Flag. To encourage more players to play PvP more often, why not add new gamemodes, possibly new maps, hold events more often (possibly weekly?), and most importantly create a reward system for PvP. For example, end match drops - cosmetics, common/uncommon mods, blueprints, and smaller chances of getting rarer drops like prime parts, prime blueprints, and rare mods. Then with the limited time PvP events maybe the chance for better loot drops is increased.

All just a thought, it's disappointing to see PvP waste away when it's got so much potential. I can't be the only one who wants to see PvP become a bigger part of the game that players actually want to play regularly. Too many people just get to Typhoon and never want to play again, which is understandable because there's not much incentive to at the moment. Also the skill gap turns people away but the gap would close with more players, also possibly the introduction of a rank system so you're always matched with players of a similar skill set. Recruit conditioning doesn't do much considering advanced players can just sit at the Whirlwind rank and still farm players in recruit conditioning. On top of that even when you become very good in recruit conditioning, turning it off can be difficult because then you're just thrown into the pit with far more advanced players with no middle ground. So players just get stuck in this stage of being OP in recruit conditioning and getting smacked with the filter off.

What does the rest of the community think of this?

I ask that you be open minded. I know the majority of the community has a distaste for PvP, rightfully so, as it's not in the best shape at the moment. The purpose of this thread is to discuss how it could be improved to become something playable. I believe it truly has potential. Don't just reply to state your negative opinion towards PvP, actually contribute. We're talking about what it could become not what it is now, why not give it a chance to become something? You might enjoy it.

Edited February 23, 2017 by ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD

[Salenstormwing]

I ignore PvP harder than Archwing.

This statement should make the devs sad. VERY SAD.

 

Want to know why I don't care about PvP? Because it's boring. Modding for PvP is worthless 99% of the time. No one ever has time to gather enough energy to use any of their high-level powers, and without those, who cares? I don't play Warframe for a sub-adequate PvP experience. I play because I want to feel powerful and awesome. PvP does none of that.

There was this one time when PvP had a lot of power use. It's when folks used Equinox to put their opponents to sleep and then tapped them in the face with a Lex Prime. That wasn't very fun either.

[Doc-Orange]

I can speak only for myself but I do NOT want to have an more enjoyable PvP mode. I play Warframe for PvE only and for me PvP ist a waste of capacity. When I want to play PvP, I choose a different game!

Edited February 23, 2017 by Doc-Orange

[MystMan]

You might want to rephrase the title to "....majority of the pvp playerbase" so it is more precise who you are referring to. Because the true majority of the playerbase are pve players and nothing in the world will change their mind in playing something they have zero interest in.

 

[ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD]

1 minute ago, Salenstormwing said:

I ignore PvP harder than Archwing.

This statement should make the devs sad. VERY SAD.

 

Want to know why I don't care about PvP? Because it's boring. Modding for PvP is worthless 99% of the time. No one ever has time to gather enough energy to use any of their high-level powers, and without those, who cares? I don't play Warframe for a sub-adequate PvP experience. I play because I want to feel powerful and awesome. PvP does none of that.

There was this one time when PvP had a lot of power use. It's when folks used Equinox to put their opponents to sleep and then tapped them in the face with a Lex Prime. That wasn't very fun either.

I agree, it should make the devs sad that most of the players think so low about PvP. It needs a lot of work, but I see a lot of potential, that's why I made this thread giving some ideas on how to improve it

[ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD]

1 minute ago, MystMan said:

You might want to rephrase the title to "....majority of the pvp playerbase" so it is more precise who you are referring to. Because the true majority of the playerbase are pve players and nothing in the world will change their mind in playing something they have zero interest in.

 

I had it that way and changed it :/ but you're probably right

[DesuTronic]

4 minutes ago, Doc-Orange said:

I can speak only for myself but I do NOT want to have an more enjoyable PvP mode. I play Warframe for PvE only and for me PvP ist a waste of capacity. When I want to play PvP, I chosse a different game!

I second this.

I can't confirm but I think the reason why so many people don't play PVP is because everyone start off by playing PVE. They spend hundreds of hours crafting their shiny primed weapons and getting expensive mods which then they will not be able to use in PVP. Sure they can use the weapons but without any mods and the weapons are also nerfed to keep it balanced. It's not fun to play it when you can spend however much time you want building up your gear which you then can't use in PVP.

Edited February 23, 2017 by DesuTronic

[ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD]

3 minutes ago, Doc-Orange said:

I can speak only for myself but I do NOT want to have an more enjoyable PvP mode. I play Warframe for PvE only and for me PvP ist a waste of capacity. When I want to play PvP, I choose a different game!

You don't even wanna give it a chance? What it they update it and it becomes something great?

[ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD]

Just now, DesuTronic said:

I second this.

I can't confirm but I thing the reason who so many people don't play PVP is because everyone start off by playing PVE. They spend hundreds of hours crafting their shiny primed weapons and getting expensive mods which then they will not be able to use in PVP. Sure they can use the weapons but without any mods and the weapons are also nerfed to keep it balanced. It's not fun to play it when you can spend however much time you want building up your gear which you then can't use in PVP.

Right, that's why I say there should be a better reward system for PvP. So players can get mods faster and easier, giving them more incentive to play.

[DesuTronic]

1 minute ago, ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD said:

Right, that's why I say there should be a better reward system for PvP. So players can get mods faster and easier, giving them more incentive to play.

But most people if they have to start all over again would rather switch to a whole new game where the PVP is more refined already.

Warframe PVP could just as easily be its own separate game.

Edited February 23, 2017 by DesuTronic

[Drufo]

The biggest reason I don't play Conclave is that it's empty. I love conclave skins, and I managed to get 3 of them, but there are so few players there that I can play it only during events, so most of the times I don't even try to play it.

Edited February 23, 2017 by Drufo

[Nurmetya]

So your entire idea is to essentially turn this games boring and tedious as hell "pvp" into an alternative "insert random crap here" farm? Sorry that won't get me to care for pvp any more than I already don't, DE couldn't get me to care enough for it for 2 liset decoration objects why would I care to go farm some junk out of it? Warframes pvp and Lunaro (this died in what a week? if that.) just needs to be buried somewhere and forgotten. 

[Doc-Orange]

1 minute ago, ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD said:

You don't even wanna give it a chance? What it they update it and it becomes something great?

No thank you. There are so many really good alternatives out there when I want to play PvP and Warframe PvP is so far away from this. And again...my objective is to play a good PvE game. In this area WF is extremly strong and I strongly believe this is what the majority of the playerbase wants. Why should Warframe waste energy to to a competition WF couldnt win and which is not wanted by the majority?

[(PSN)Elvenbane]

Shouldn't the "fun" of competing against other humans be reward enough? You mention players getting to Typhoon and not coming back but then fail to realize that additional rewards would just create a slightly longer grind wall for resentful PvE players to surmount. If the PvP game modes are fun and interesting, people that like PvP will keep playing. Souls games have dedicated PvP players who keep playing without any in-game rewards just because they find it enjoyable somehow.

[ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD]

1 minute ago, DesuTronic said:

But most people if they have to start all over again would rather switch to a whole new game where the PVP is more refined already.

Makes sense, but I feel like if pvp was made more enjoyable people wouldn't mind playing it and starting over, might be refreshing tbh

[ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD]

2 minutes ago, Drufo said:

The biggest reason I don't play Conclave is that it's empty. I love conclave skins, and I managed to get 3 of them, but there are so few players there that I can play it only during events, so most of the times I don't even try to play it.

Exactly, that's why I think DE should add more PvP content to give more players incentive to try it. Even if vets don't want to because they feel like it's starting over. It might draw new players in.

[ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Elvenbane said:

Shouldn't the "fun" of competing against other humans be reward enough? You mention players getting to Typhoon and not coming back but then fail to realize that additional rewards would just create a slightly longer grind wall for resentful PvE players to surmount. If the PvP game modes are fun and interesting, people that like PvP will keep playing. Souls games have dedicated PvP players who keep playing without any in-game rewards just because they find it enjoyable somehow.

That's the thing though the lack of content and gamemodes makes it unenjoyable for most. The players that just genuinely enjoy PvP do still play it, my clan is full of players that main PvP.

[DesuTronic]

Just now, ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD said:

Exactly, that's why I think DE should add more PvP content to give more players incentive to try it. Even if vets don't want to because they feel like it's starting over. It might draw new players in.

The problem isn't what the rewards are, the problem is what you have to do to get it. If it's fun then people will do it, if it is not fun then people will NOT do it. But then you can say what about PVE content, farming resource's for thousands of hours is boring as well. But at least in PVE there are thousands of different way you can make it more fun for yourself by doing silly builds and strategies and having fun with your friends. In PVP the ONLY way to get anything is by killing other players. There is absolutely no variety in how you rank up in PVP and there probably never will be because what else can you add into a Player versus Player mode that doesn't involve killing other players with the most optimal setup? Maybe add a few more gamemodes but that will stll not fix the underlining problem that it's not a gamemode where you are against a hoard of stupid AI that you can tentacle rape with Hydroid. It's just a bunch of tryhards trying to get the most kills.

[ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD]

6 minutes ago, Doc-Orange said:

No thank you. There are so many really good alternatives out there when I want to play PvP and Warframe PvP is so far away from this. And again...my objective is to play a good PvE game. In this area WF is extremly strong and I strongly believe this is what the majority of the playerbase wants. Why should Warframe waste energy to to a competition WF couldnt win and which is not wanted by the majority?

I mean they added it into the game, why not update and improve it and see where it goes? They're already doing PvP events to try to get players into Conclave.

[ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD]

3 minutes ago, DesuTronic said:

The problem isn't what the rewards are, the problem is what you have to do to get it. If it's fun then people will do it, if it is not fun then people will NOT do it. But then you can say what about PVE content, farming resource's for thousands of hours is boring as well. But at least in PVE there are thousands of different way you can make it more fun for yourself by doing silly builds and strategies and having fun with your friends. In PVP the ONLY way to get anything is by killing other players. There is absolutely no variety in how you rank up in PVP and there probably never will be because what else can you add into a Player versus Player mode that doesn't involve killing other players with the most optimal setup? Maybe add a few more gamemodes but that will stll not fix the underlining problem that it's not a gamemode where you are against a hoard of stupid AI that you can tentacle rape with Hydroid. It's just a bunch of tryhards trying to get the most kills.

But that's not all it's about ... Lunaro is a sports type mode that doesn't involve killing at all. With the addition of more PvP mods you can make different builds, try new, weapons, challenge yourself, randomize your loadout and try to compete with something you're not at all used to, etc. You can be just as creative.

Edited February 23, 2017 by ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD

[ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD]

12 minutes ago, Nurmetya said:

So your entire idea is to essentially turn this games boring and tedious as hell "pvp" into an alternative "insert random crap here" farm? Sorry that won't get me to care for pvp any more than I already don't, DE couldn't get me to care enough for it for 2 liset decoration objects why would I care to go farm some junk out of it? Warframes pvp and Lunaro (this died in what a week? if that.) just needs to be buried somewhere and forgotten. 

It's just an idea off the top of my head. I trust DE could come up with a better way to improve their gamemode than I can ...

[DesuTronic]

1 minute ago, ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD said:

But that's not all it's about ... Lunaro is a sports type mode that doesn't involve killing at all. With the addition of more PvP mods you can make different builds, try new, weapons, challenge yourself, randomize your loadout and try to compete with something you're not at all used to, etc. You can be just as creative.

Conclave and Lunaro are under the same navigation segment in your Liset but they are lets be frank completely different things.

As for the builds, sure you can vary your builds and do whatever but you will always be up against someone who will be using the most optimal build to kick your butt with. It's fun o try to see how many grineer can you kill with a 8 forma braton mk1 but but in conclave unless you have a build that rivals the opposition, you will never be able to win.

[VocalMagic]

PvP is too far different from the base game to be any fun for me.

Now, if they introduced a mode where you started with no weapons and picked up a prepared weapon from the starting point, then had you race down a semi-linear maze/obstacle course fighting NPC enemies and taking their keys to open a door you need to get through, that could be fun. 

[ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD]

9 minutes ago, DesuTronic said:

Conclave and Lunaro are under the same navigation segment in your Liset but they are lets be frank completely different things.

As for the builds, sure you can vary your builds and do whatever but you will always be up against someone who will be using the most optimal build to kick your butt with. It's fun o try to see how many grineer can you kill with a 8 forma braton mk1 but but in conclave unless you have a build that rivals the opposition, you will never be able to win.

Not entirely true. Depends on your skill compared to the players you're facing. That goes for any game not just WF. If you're a good player you can win or at very least do well with worse set ups. To many, it's fun to see if you can do well with bad weapons and set ups, or just weapons deemed harder to use, hence why sniper rifles are so popular in shooters.

[ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD]

8 minutes ago, VocalMagic said:

PvP is too far different from the base game to be any fun for me.

Now, if they introduced a mode where you started with no weapons and picked up a prepared weapon from the starting point, then had you race down a semi-linear maze/obstacle course fighting NPC enemies and taking their keys to open a door you need to get through, that could be fun. 

I agree! That sounds like an interesting idea for a game mode. They could even implement a pvp mode where you start out with say only your melee (or sidearm) weapon and have to pick up prepared weapons around the map.