Ideas to make PvP more playable - It has potential!

[Salenstormwing]

13 minutes ago, lasersword said:

I know this isn't exactly what you want but, you can't be awesome if everyone else should be awesome, and if you don't want a balanced game that totally rewards camping, unfair tactics etc? 

 

Play some salmon. 

I was thinking about this throughout work, and you see... you're wrong.

I know how to make Conclave better. You see... it needs PvE.

How can PvP have PvE? That should be UNPOSSIBLE! Right? Wrong. It happens all the time, where someone gets to play a heroic character while fighting against both PvP and PvE opponents. League of Legends, Dota 2, Titanfall 2, Smite, the list goes on and on.

 

There are plenty of games out there that feature HEROIC characters who feel POWERFUL, partly because you have a system that allows them to gain power through fighting non-PvP targets and yet on occasion you have it where those two towers of power can come together and clash like real champions and not just weak underpowered losers we all are in normal Conclave.

 

I'm not saying make Conclave a MOBA, since Titanfall 2 has proven that enemies who are AI who help your opponent can quite easily help make a rather boring game into one with some life and action and allows you to have enemies who are actually a welcome distraction between PvP fights. Have Corpus for one side, have Grineer on the other, one set of Tenno help one side, the other side help the Grineer. You could do point control conclave fights where the enemies try to gain enough points similar to INTERCEPTION except you have a fight where Tenno might not always be going against their enemy counterparts but instead fighting against the enemies who are attacking the points they're controlling.

 

Plus, it adds a bit of PvE (that the game is focused mostly around) to a system that is otherwise divorced from it, and frankly, it needs some of that good stuff to make it fun to play.

 

But that's just my thoughts on it.

[(PSN)Akuma_Asura_]

I just had a thought on how to fix conclave a little bit besides the net code . They should bring back stamina . Also make it so that melee cost stamina 

[Lanadra]

No.

Seriously, no. Look at the recent Conclave Alert pushes, look at the frustration and anger it brought out. Most of of us don't want more PvP or Archwing, we want less. Preferably gone entirely, but that's not going to happen.

Do it in a way that doesn't detract from PvE or hide things we want also behind a PvP wall. Otherwise it'll just continually piss off the majority of the player base. PvE items improve PvE experience, PvP items should improve PvP experience.

Edited February 24, 2017 by Artorius-Alter

[(PSN)Akuma_Asura_]

2 minutes ago, Artorius-Alter said:

No.

Seriously, no. Look at the recent Conclave Alert pushes, look at the frustration and anger it brought out. Most of of us don't want more PvP or Archwing, we want less. Preferably gone entirely, but that's not going to happen.

Most of you but not all . 

[Raqyia]

>Teshin started Conclave as a means of preparing the Tenno for the threat beyond the Outer Terminus. 

>Spend more time than I care to admit playing Conclave

>Learn about the Sentients

>Fight the Sentients 

>Die horribly

>Finally Kill a Sentient

>Get a Conclave Mod

What if the real threat is Teshin, and the Sentients want to prepare us for his bull sh*t?

All in all: I would rather see Conclave used as a means to actually better ourselves against Sentient enemies. I like the parallel that DE drew between Conclave's Oro and the Sentient's "spark" that'll be used to power other Sentients if not taken in time. I would also like to see more dynamic play styles in Conclave, because f*ck balancing everything until it's all the same thing.

Hell, I'm hoping that there'll be a way to better use operators in terms of PVP and PVE.

[(PSN)Elvenbane]

Maybe what Warframe needs are game modes that work in both PvE and PvP. Something like Onslaught from Unreal Tournament 2004. My friends and I used to enjoy playing this against bots as well as humans. Might be a good way to leverage limited programming resources without neglecting anyone.

[Hellnar_Doombringer]

When they have their own servers for PVP i might have a glimpse. Otherwise it's a waste of time

[EmptyDevil]

4 hours ago, Salenstormwing said:

I was thinking about this throughout work, and you see... you're wrong.

I know how to make Conclave better. You see... it needs PvE.

How can PvP have PvE? That should be UNPOSSIBLE! Right? Wrong. It happens all the time, where someone gets to play a heroic character while fighting against both PvP and PvE opponents. League of Legends, Dota 2, Titanfall 2, Smite, the list goes on and on.

 

There are plenty of games out there that feature HEROIC characters who feel POWERFUL, partly because you have a system that allows them to gain power through fighting non-PvP targets and yet on occasion you have it where those two towers of power can come together and clash like real champions and not just weak underpowered losers we all are in normal Conclave.

 

I'm not saying make Conclave a MOBA, since Titanfall 2 has proven that enemies who are AI who help your opponent can quite easily help make a rather boring game into one with some life and action and allows you to have enemies who are actually a welcome distraction between PvP fights. Have Corpus for one side, have Grineer on the other, one set of Tenno help one side, the other side help the Grineer. You could do point control conclave fights where the enemies try to gain enough points similar to INTERCEPTION except you have a fight where Tenno might not always be going against their enemy counterparts but instead fighting against the enemies who are attacking the points they're controlling.

 

Plus, it adds a bit of PvE (that the game is focused mostly around) to a system that is otherwise divorced from it, and frankly, it needs some of that good stuff to make it fun to play.

 

But that's just my thoughts on it.

Good post. I've advocated for adding some PVE-elements or PVE-styled PVP modes, for the reasons you mentioned. Adding AI-controlled teammates to the match along with the players would make it much better. Killing those bots would help give some players a moral boost, if they aren't able to kill other players. I think AI-controlled Warframe Specters would be excellent, even in full squads on both sides.

DE should really consider adopting some traits from MOBAs or other games in general, to improve PVP. Pretty sure Titanfall 2(and some other game) borrowed some Warframe elements, making the gameplay feel more polished as a result.

[SilvaDreams]

Honestly there is nothing that can improve PvP enough that people will care about it.

There is a reason why 1% or less of the entire game population plays it.

Sure having dedicated servers might help a little so I'm not joining matches and suddenly having a 900-1600ms ping to the host despite a 250ms limit set in my options.

But conclave is boring as all hell. It's CoD with Warframes. And CoD is boring as hell just running in circles spraying bullets or camping a corner.

Edited February 24, 2017 by SilvaDreams

[arch111]

6 hours ago, Salenstormwing said:

I was thinking about this throughout work, and you see... you're wrong.

I know how to make Conclave better. You see... it needs PvE.

How can PvP have PvE? That should be UNPOSSIBLE! Right? Wrong. It happens all the time, where someone gets to play a heroic character while fighting against both PvP and PvE opponents. League of Legends, Dota 2, Titanfall 2, Smite, the list goes on and on.

 

There are plenty of games out there that feature HEROIC characters who feel POWERFUL, partly because you have a system that allows them to gain power through fighting non-PvP targets and yet on occasion you have it where those two towers of power can come together and clash like real champions and not just weak underpowered losers we all are in normal Conclave.

 

I'm not saying make Conclave a MOBA, since Titanfall 2 has proven that enemies who are AI who help your opponent can quite easily help make a rather boring game into one with some life and action and allows you to have enemies who are actually a welcome distraction between PvP fights. Have Corpus for one side, have Grineer on the other, one set of Tenno help one side, the other side help the Grineer. You could do point control conclave fights where the enemies try to gain enough points similar to INTERCEPTION except you have a fight where Tenno might not always be going against their enemy counterparts but instead fighting against the enemies who are attacking the points they're controlling.

 

Plus, it adds a bit of PvE (that the game is focused mostly around) to a system that is otherwise divorced from it, and frankly, it needs some of that good stuff to make it fun to play.

 

But that's just my thoughts on it.

Aha. So basically invasion buth with friendly fire >:)

I can see being on a enemy Team as a fun time.

[SeaUrchins]

It's pointless. The game is uncompetitive so obviously it attracts uncompetitive players who choose to ignore a competitive game mode.

[(PSN)Ransalot]

15 hours ago, ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD said:

To start off, it's no secret that PvP is ignored by the vast majority of the playerbase.

PvE has seen countless changes and updates over the years but ever since Conclave has been added not much has been brought to the table. More gamemodes were added, and there's events every so often, generally being the only time the servers fill up in PvP, then it dies off again after the event is over. I was thinking, why not bring new things to the table for PvP, I see a lot of potential. As of right now there's 3 gamemodes (not including lunaro). Essentially we have Free For All, Team Deathmatch, and Capture the Flag. To encourage more players to play PvP more often, why not add new gamemodes, possibly new maps, hold events more often (possibly weekly?), and most importantly create a reward system for PvP. For example, end match drops - cosmetics, common/uncommon mods, blueprints, and smaller chances of getting rarer drops like prime parts, prime blueprints, and rare mods. Then with the limited time PvP events maybe the chance for better loot drops is increased.

All just a thought, it's disappointing to see PvP waste away when it's got so much potential. I can't be the only one who wants to see PvP become a bigger part of the game that players actually want to play regularly. Too many people just get to Typhoon and never want to play again, which is understandable because there's not much incentive to at the moment. Also the skill gap turns people away but the gap would close with more players, also possibly the introduction of a rank system so you're always matched with players of a similar skill set. Recruit conditioning doesn't do much considering advanced players can just sit at the Whirlwind rank and still farm players in recruit conditioning. On top of that even when you become very good in recruit conditioning, turning it off can be difficult because then you're just thrown into the pit with far more advanced players with no middle ground. So players just get stuck in this stage of being OP in recruit conditioning and getting smacked with the filter off.

What does the rest of the community think of this?

I ask that you be open minded. I know the majority of the community has a distaste for PvP, rightfully so, as it's not in the best shape at the moment. The purpose of this thread is to discuss how it could be improved to become something playable. I believe it truly has potential. Don't just reply to state your negative opinion towards PvP, actually contribute. We're talking about what it could become not what it is now, why not give it a chance to become something? You might enjoy it.

Conclave doesn't need anymore content, what it needs is some serious balancing and fix. No one enjoys trying to shoot down a monkey moving maniac, no one enjoys it when the guy in the opposing team starts to inv his friends over just to faceroll you in a 4v2 or 3v1, no one enjoys the fact that a bow can 1 shot you but a sniper takes 2-3 shots to kill someone, the bows have ridiculous hitbox, players can abuse abilities in conclave, no one enjoys trying to collect their kills (Oro) and end up having the opponent stealing it. Every kill in the conclave is a lucky shot when players are moving around like a monkey

These are some of the reasons why majority of the player base don't enjoy conclave, add in with players who teabag their opponents after every kill.

Edited February 24, 2017 by (PS4)Ransalot

[Irixa]

I, like most of the playerbase, do not enjoy it. Warframe is too fast paced I think; and well...IT HAS PLAYER SERVERS. :c instant advantage to the host, disadvantage to other players.

 

Next: Oro. Just let kills be kills, I do not like Oro scavengers who knock you off the top 3 when you clearly had more kills but they stole Oro.

 

And Warframe was made for PvE, they're just trying really hard to attempt PvP.

Edited February 24, 2017 by Irixa

[Salenstormwing]

4 hours ago, arch111 said:

Aha. So basically invasion buth with friendly fire >:)

I can see being on a enemy Team as a fun time.

More or less. But you could make it Objective-based with reinforcements on both sides. And even if you're bad at PvP, you can still be effective killing off the AI PvE enemies on the opposing team and helping secure objectives and defend them.

In the end, it would be a mode that would take the PvP of conclave, and actually make it feel more like the REST of the world.

It's like I said, one of the best Conclave modes in the game are the Arena fights like Rathuum and The Index. If you teamed up opposing factions with groups of Tenno supporting them, I could see it being more interesting than trying to just play TDM and getting shotgun-oneshotted in the face repeatedly by the same guy who's so much better than you.

Taking everything that makes the PvE side fun just leaves a very dry, boring PvP shell remaining. In order to balance it, just have normal Tenno powers work as normal against AIs but be less effective against opposing Tenno. This way you don't get 1-shotted by someone's super powered #4.

The main thing I'm saying is the PvE side is SO GOOD. Why is it totally disregarded then when part of it could help make the boring PvP SO MUCH BETTER. Heck, you could have a 1v1 with a small army of AIs on both sides, and it would be awesome.

[Greenshockclaw]

12 hours ago, Artorius-Alter said:

 

Do it in a way that doesn't...hide things we want also behind a PvP wall... PvP items should improve PvP experience.

So... no cosmetics or gear, just the regular old pvp only mods we have now. got it. 

[Lanadra]

18 minutes ago, Greenshockclaw said:

So... no cosmetics or gear, just the regular old pvp only mods we have now. got it. 

Yeah, pretty much. Though I'd appreciate it if you didn't cut out half of my sentence, it kinda messes with the context.

12 hours ago, Artorius-Alter said:

Do it in a way that doesn't detract from PvE or hide things we want also behind a PvP wall. Otherwise it'll just continually piss off the majority of the player base. PvE items improve PvE experience, PvP items should improve PvP experience.

Regardless of how you may feel, when PvP in a game that is for the majority consisting of a PvE playerbase that doesn't want to PvP, has exclusive cosmetics that everyone can use, it is just going to annoy, or in the worst case, royally piss off a lot of people. Because most of us don't want to -feel- forced to play PvP to get things we want to use or wear in PvE and 'fashionframe'. It doesn't matter how fair or justified it being PvP exclusive may be, it will still piss off a lot of people. Though I do get it, DE wants to incentivize PvP.

Even just those recent alerts caused a legion of saltiness over being conclave only, however minor and mostly insignificant the rewards were. With countless people begrudgingly suffering through conclave because they wanted the noggles. But aside from a few who find themselves newly discovering they actually like the gamemode, I actually did see a few of such posts, the vast majority will never touch conclave again after they have what they want.

Oh, and for the record, I did not participate in any of the alerts they had for conclave recently, I don't want to PvP, and very few rewards will get me to basically piss myself off by going in there.

Edited February 24, 2017 by Artorius-Alter

[Greenshockclaw]

2 hours ago, Artorius-Alter said:

Yeah, pretty much. Though I'd appreciate it if you didn't cut out half of my sentence, it kinda messes with the context.

 

ah, sorry. just wanted to specify what i was talking about

 

2 hours ago, Artorius-Alter said:

 

Regardless of how you may feel, when PvP in a game that is for the majority consisting of a PvE playerbase that doesn't want to PvP, has exclusive cosmetics that everyone can use, it is just going to annoy, or in the worst case, royally piss off a lot of people. Because most of us don't want to -feel- forced to play PvP to get things we want to use or wear in PvE and 'fashionframe'. It doesn't matter how fair or justified it being PvP exclusive may be, it will still piss off a lot of people. Though I do get it, DE wants to incentivize PvP.

Even just those recent alerts caused a legion of saltiness over being conclave only, however minor and mostly insignificant the rewards were. With countless people begrudgingly suffering through conclave because they wanted the noggles. But aside from a few who find themselves newly discovering they actually like the gamemode, I actually did see a few of such posts, the vast majority will never touch conclave again after they have what they want.

Oh, and for the record, I did not participate in any of the alerts they had for conclave recently, I don't want to PvP, and very few rewards will get me to basically piss myself off by going in there.

Maybe they should work on making pvp enjoyable before they put the rewards in then? and if people still don't like the changes, then the cosmetics can also be available for platinum

[Lanadra]

Just now, Greenshockclaw said:

ah, sorry. just wanted to specify what i was talking about

 

Maybe they should work on making pvp enjoyable before they put the rewards in then? and if people still don't like the changes, then the cosmetics can also be available for platinum

I'd say yeah, though many would find that a hot topic also. Fairly certain there's plenty of people who would find more effort made on PvP to be disastrous. I know I'll never bother, it simply isn't what I come to Warframe for. If I want PvP, I'll go play a PvP game.

[ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD]

16 hours ago, (PS4)FriendSharkey said:

You have to make PVP for PVE players to get them to try out their brand of PVP. They do not want normal PVP modes with death matches, capture the flag, and king of the hill. You have to think Races, Sports, Player controlled monsters, Enviromental hazards. You throw out death animations and place in stunlocks. If someone tea-bags you, they get punched in the tenders. PVE players are really competitive and they do not like that meta-rage tatics. So they avoid it. But play a couple exterminates and watch them claw and bite and bullet jump to be the first to the finish. Lunaro was a good idea for that line of thought but they screwed it up with spam checking and slow snail paced gameplay. I tried it and instantly hated how slow it was, the checking, how small the fields were. Players were coming out of Rocket League. Fast paced, exciting, fun, hard to check someone where they were out of commission. A giant ball always in play, fun. Lunaro...slow and overly complicated, frustrating.... Dead. 

Yeah I figured a lot of PvE players don't like Conclave because they aren't good at it. A lot of people expect to just jump in and be good immediately but there's a learning curve to this game's PvP and people don't want to put in the time to get better. It's easier just to cry about it being a terrible mode with no potential that to admit you're just not good at it yet.

[ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD]

16 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

truth is, there's always going to be a crowd of people that don't play PVP, and I'm one of them. I won't speak for other's reasons of course, but mine is that competition is of no real interest to me, and PVP brings out the worst in people, including my own salty side (which has been getting plenty of indulgence thanks to Nioh, that's a damn hard game lol). i do think the Devs should look at PVP more, but do it without irking and starving the PVE crowd. at the end of the day, PVP was a mode tacked on to give longevity to the game, and PVP is basically the easiest way to do that, because it capitalizes on our competitive nature as humans (usually). I'm fine with PVP, I'll leave those people to it, but don't shove it down our throats and don't forget about PvE, that's all I ask.

A rational opinion. I respect it.

[ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD]

15 hours ago, Salenstormwing said:

I was thinking about this throughout work, and you see... you're wrong.

I know how to make Conclave better. You see... it needs PvE.

How can PvP have PvE? That should be UNPOSSIBLE! Right? Wrong. It happens all the time, where someone gets to play a heroic character while fighting against both PvP and PvE opponents. League of Legends, Dota 2, Titanfall 2, Smite, the list goes on and on.

 

There are plenty of games out there that feature HEROIC characters who feel POWERFUL, partly because you have a system that allows them to gain power through fighting non-PvP targets and yet on occasion you have it where those two towers of power can come together and clash like real champions and not just weak underpowered losers we all are in normal Conclave.

 

I'm not saying make Conclave a MOBA, since Titanfall 2 has proven that enemies who are AI who help your opponent can quite easily help make a rather boring game into one with some life and action and allows you to have enemies who are actually a welcome distraction between PvP fights. Have Corpus for one side, have Grineer on the other, one set of Tenno help one side, the other side help the Grineer. You could do point control conclave fights where the enemies try to gain enough points similar to INTERCEPTION except you have a fight where Tenno might not always be going against their enemy counterparts but instead fighting against the enemies who are attacking the points they're controlling.

 

Plus, it adds a bit of PvE (that the game is focused mostly around) to a system that is otherwise divorced from it, and frankly, it needs some of that good stuff to make it fun to play.

 

But that's just my thoughts on it.

That's already been thought of, and brought up in this thread, the Corpus vs. Grineer mode. Small team tactics based game mode with corpus and grineer AI.

[ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD]

15 hours ago, (PS4)Akuma_Asura_ said:

I just had a thought on how to fix conclave a little bit besides the net code . They should bring back stamina . Also make it so that melee cost stamina 

Wouldn't be a bad addition. I like the idea.

[ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD]

11 hours ago, Hellnar_Doombringer said:

When they have their own servers for PVP i might have a glimpse. Otherwise it's a waste of time

You mean players? That's already been implemented.

EDIT: Nvm - that was a dumbass question ...

Edited February 24, 2017 by ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD

[ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD]

10 hours ago, SilvaDreams said:

Honestly there is nothing that can improve PvP enough that people will care about it.

There is a reason why 1% or less of the entire game population plays it.

Sure having dedicated servers might help a little so I'm not joining matches and suddenly having a 900-1600ms ping to the host despite a 250ms limit set in my options.

But conclave is boring as all hell. It's CoD with Warframes. And CoD is boring as hell just running in circles spraying bullets or camping a corner.

It's nothing like CoD. That's spoken like someone who's never really put time into Conclave ...

Everyone compares every game with a PvP mode to CoD.

Mario Party - "AYE THEY DON"T TEACH YOU THIS IN COD BOI YOU BETTER STAY IN YOUR LANE"

[ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD]

9 hours ago, SeaUrchins said:

It's pointless. The game is uncompetitive so obviously it attracts uncompetitive players who choose to ignore a competitive game mode.

Not entirely, it's free so it attracts a wide variety of players that just don't want to pay to play a game. I've met players from all types of backgrounds in WF, shooters, MOBA's, other MMO's, I met a few guys who mainly play sports games like 2k, rocket league, forza, etc.