AetherAids Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 (edited) Sometimes I look at frames (for example excalibur) and see a small place where a mouth could be and ever since the second dream where the warframe pulls out the war without the operators control I cant get the idea of warframes being independent creatures and I would love to see a quest or something where a frame kills its operator and we have to hunt it down or something just thought it would be a cool idea. Edited March 7, 2017 by AetherAids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachingo Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Should probably mark this for spoilers for those that didn't do the second dream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaotyke Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordoFreeman Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 8 minutes ago, AetherAids said: Sometimes I look at frames (for example excalibur) and see a small place where a mouth could be and ever since the second dream where the warframe pulls out the war without the operators control I cant get the idea of warframes being independent creatures and I would love to see a quest or something where a frame kills its operator and we have to hunt it down or something just thought it would be a cool idea. A frame like the Stalker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord-Taco-the-Great Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 I think Steve alluded to what the next big quest would be about, and you're not too far off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinthAria Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 "Independent" is probably too strong of a word; it's pretty clear they need the Operators to function with any kind of consistency. That said, it's also pretty clear that they have some kind of consciousness/intelligence of their own, if only on a very basic level. (The Silver Grove quest confirms this as well.) I'm interested to learn more, in any event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemmo67 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 well the queens call it an infested puppet so maybe there is a chance our warframe run on the infesation and operator just takes controll of the beign via transferance but then again when we controll one warframe, where are the rest stored? in cryostasis to prevent them from doing bad stuff?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vox_Preliator Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 I think that's one of the theories behind the Stalker, a frame that killed its Operator. Personally, I'm seeing them as independent individuals until such time the lore outright confirms they're not. I like the idea of symbiosis between two different life forms, Bio-mechanical Supersoldier and Void-empowered human(?). It makes me feel less lonely on missions, Lotus is more like Mission Control, Sentinels are cute but have no personality, and I find I don't use Pets much at all, so pretending I'm playing as a badass magic ninja duo working together and supporting one another feels better to me. On the side, It's been over a year, I kinda feel calling spoilers isn't as relevant anymore. Rosebud was the sled, Vader is his father, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimAtrament Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 they are golems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemmo67 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 1 minute ago, Vox_Preliator said: Vader is his father, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyaa314 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 17 minutes ago, Vox_Preliator said: I think that's one of the theories behind the Stalker, a frame that killed its Operator. What does he mean when he say 'the murder will not go unpunished' then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smilomaniac Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Up until Nidus, people were theorizing that Warframes were comprised of infested flesh for a long, long time. Whether DE thought of it themselves or not, this is now the definitive case. Arguably, it was known when Titania came out, but it wasn't definite proof (though in my opinion, as good as). Similarly people have also theorized that the frames themselves are somewhat sentient. We've seen a couple of examples of this (Chroma/Mesa comes to mind), so while there are indications of it being the case, there isn't any actual proof. My theory is that the infested flesh creates its own brain, or the nanites function as a localized hivemind with a similar function - It would stand to reason that the operator takes control of some neural center (or hardware equivalent in other cases) in order to move the frame around. If that's the case, then it's also not unreasonable to assume that this "brain" (in whatever form there is) has the ability to achieve sentience and also imposed limitations in order to prevent exactly that (reffering to Ordis - There is likely a connection between AI's and "nanite sentience"). It is also possible that there is a literal brain with the potential of sentience from the level of a fruit fly (purely instinctual and reactionary, beyond seeking fulfilment of base needs), to that of a full human (abstract thoughts, dreams and ambitions), which the infested themselves would support. Additionally, Mag Prime has a literal brain in her model, although this is likely just a decorative piece and not official lore, as DE were unlikely to have thought these things through at the time of her release. Assuming it's official, the question then becomes whether these brains are created or "donated". The crafting process would count against the latter, so they are likely created from infested nanites, unless the orbiter carries a hidden cache of stored brains. All of the above is written to support the theory that it is indeed possible that warframes can support some measure sentience; It would make sense if that were the case. However, DE intentionally keep things vague as they make up the lore as they go and so they can change their mind depending on what sort of story they want to tell. My guess is that we will one day see more examples of this, with surrounding lore that proves that it is indeed the case. If we take all that a bit further, the Stalker himself is likely the result of a Warframe with a donated brain from an Orokin soldier, intended to never be controlled by a Tenno so that he could hunt them down during the betrayal. His acolytes may be the same that he either created himself or found and released from an Orokin research lab, long after the betrayal happened. If we apply the Ordis theory, it may be an AI created from that soldiers personality and the lived experience of seeing the Tenno slaughter the Orokin. It's all interesting stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AetherAids Posted March 7, 2017 Author Share Posted March 7, 2017 I guess I just find the thought of a cinematic of Excaliburs mouth opening and it acting kind of like a feral creature ripping through stuff rather than a calm tenno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AetherAids Posted March 7, 2017 Author Share Posted March 7, 2017 Also maybe frames are always under a slightly subconscious control by the operator but the second that disap 34 minutes ago, NinthAria said: "Independent" is probably too strong of a word; it's pretty clear they need the Operators to function with any kind of consistency. That said, it's also pretty clear that they have some kind of consciousness/intelligence of their own, if only on a very basic level. (The Silver Grove quest confirms this as well.) I'm interested to learn more, in any event. In my personal opinion the operator just has a slightly subconscious control over frames even when there not using them but say the operators focus is broken by something internal *cough the grinder queen* the frame can break loose into a more feral state Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heatnix. Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 I think not. However,considering the cliche path Warframe took a couple of years ago, there's a big chance of the Warframes being "something special and mystical, the bodies of ancient warriors" or something dumb like that. They've pretty much place them as life-less tools at this point with the usual "hints" that give people hope to try and ignore the fact that your character is a bratty teen faking to be a warrior, another "I have no training but I have super powers given to me because I was chosen" millennial plot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AetherAids Posted March 7, 2017 Author Share Posted March 7, 2017 48 minutes ago, GordoFreeman said: A frame like the Stalker? I'd say the stalker is a calm Tenno who is in control just a little bloodthirsty as explained in the second dream after he/she found out what they were I kinda mean a more feral like state Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaotyke Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 4 minutes ago, AetherAids said: I guess I just find the thought of a cinematic of Excaliburs mouth opening and it acting kind of like a feral creature ripping through stuff rather than a calm tenno 1 minute ago, AetherAids said: Also maybe frames are always under a slightly subconscious control by the operator but the second that disap Pfff no. Full control and Transference became STRONGER after we moved to the Orbiter, not weaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinthAria Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 10 minutes ago, AetherAids said: In my personal opinion the operator just has a slightly subconscious control over frames even when there not using them but say the operators focus is broken by something internal *cough the grinder queen* the frame can break loose into a more feral state That's an interesting theory, but there's not a lot of evidence to support warframes being "feral"--not without exacerbating circumstances at least. They don't seem to be naturally bloodthirsty or anything when they're not being controlled; they just sort of stay where they're at. The only exceptions we've seen are when they're under intense duress (as in the Rhino Prime codex--and that was an early Transference experiment to begin with) or when someone they're bonded to is in life-threatening danger (Titania in The Silver Grove, or your warframe in The Second Dream). It may be that some warframes are like that--it's clear from things like their poses and animations that they have at least a little bit of personality to them--but at this moment it seems unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AetherAids Posted March 7, 2017 Author Share Posted March 7, 2017 12 minutes ago, Kaotyke said: Pfff no. Full control and Transference became STRONGER after we moved to the Orbiter, not weaker. Well I think maybe the fact the grineer queen is still slightly in the operators head may disturb his/her focus over the frames just a slight theory not stating facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AetherAids Posted March 7, 2017 Author Share Posted March 7, 2017 8 minutes ago, NinthAria said: That's an interesting theory, but there's not a lot of evidence to support warframes being "feral"--not without exacerbating circumstances at least. They don't seem to be naturally bloodthirsty or anything when they're not being controlled; they just sort of stay where they're at. The only exceptions we've seen are when they're under intense duress (as in the Rhino Prime codex--and that was an early Transference experiment to begin with) or when someone they're bonded to is in life-threatening danger (Titania in The Silver Grove, or your warframe in The Second Dream). It may be that some warframes are like that--it's clear from things like their poses and animations that they have at least a little bit of personality to them--but at this moment it seems unlikely. The rhino codex entry was one of the main contributors to my theory as the way it describes the frame as some sort of monster shovelling flesh into its mouth and letting out loud screeches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crashen Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Something to support the theory that warframes are more than puppets, something I point out every chance I get, is Helminth's interactions with Nidus vs operator vs everything else. It calls Nidus, specifically, master. It only opens the door for him (or those infected with mature cysts but i count that as gameplay mechanica), and addresses the operator as something else entirely. It doesnt go "oh hey master, i see you are wearing my favorite warframe!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Solargeo Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 1 hour ago, Nyaa314 said: What does he mean when he say 'the murder will not go unpunished' then? To our murdering of the High Command? All the Command structure ? Of the gold loving want to live forever people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleksundar Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 (edited) 10 hours ago, GordoFreeman said: A frame like the Stalker? The stalker is not a frame, it is inferred that he is an operator (along with the other plagued) who woke up from cryosleep and essentially grew up to hate the Lotus and the other Tenno (for unknown reasons), it explains his sleep suit and operator powers, how they are more powerful and more developed then our current child-operator Edited March 8, 2017 by Aleksundar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miser_able Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 9 hours ago, Heatnix. said: another "I have no training but I have super powers given to me because I was chosen" millennial plot. They had training. Their "Super powers" was just something that pushed them off the path of normal life and into that of child/teen soldier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)IroncladBomber Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Independent? No. Sapient? No. Sentient? Maybe. Frames are Bio-Mechanical Constructs. Like Golems, ours are made of supposedly made of a Stable version of the Technocyte Virus (AKA Infestation). Save for Nidus which appears to be a highly unstable strain, but less infectious. Combined with advanced technologies, which border on the Arcane. Our Frames are as I said, simply Golems of Flesh and Metal. Now, while I am sure the frame in the Vaguest of senses can perceive the world around them, and might have some form of Ancestral Hive-Mind which links the New Model Frames back to their Original Prime Versions, which could give the frames their individual "personalities". Such as Valkyr, being tortured by Alad V is supposedly what made that frame so adept at Violence and Rage. Which caused all subsequent models to suffer from that defect as well. Including Prime versions that were constructed afterwards. Though I don't know if that is how it works for sure. The Second Dream did show our frames breaking War while not under direct control of the Operator, now this could be a sign of greater awareness and sentience, or it could be the operator in desperation and fear was able to control the frame from that distance, albeit from a greatly diminished level. We need more info to know which is correct. I personally prefer to believe that the Frames have some level of self awareness and intelligence, however base or primal that intelligence might be, like in the Rhino Prime Codex, early prototypes of frames were savage, infested monstrosities that were driven by their baser needs, and a sort of ancestral memory, which caused the Prototype Rhino to recognize the ones who had tortured and likely Killed the once that came before it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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