How to ruin progress in a progression based game! ... or Ferrox powercreep deluxe!!!

[AcceptYourDeath]

OK so I guess we can now research weapons for 2 rusty bottle caps and a handful Oxium (funny after Hema/Mutagen ) which can easily challenge Prime Weapons. Our latest edition for example Euphona Prime.

No travel time - Euphona has

ALOT of ammo - Euphona hasn`t

Punch through - Euphona hasn`t

More overall physical damage with a nice portion of slash damage (I wonder what that does with critical hits mixed in?)

Same crit stats, double magazine size, shorter reload, better status

Neutral riven disposition compared to faint for Euphona.

HALF Mastery Rank required than Euphona (and btw lower MR than Syndicate primary/melee weapons which need alot more resources and effort to get)

 

Ferrox has charge rate, so I guess there is that.

Oh wait - It beats basically any bow in the game with its charge rate .....I am so glad I got myself a Cernos Prime  right? RIGHT? 

 

I honestly appreciate how alot of players seem to buy Prime Access with noble intentions, I really do.

So yeah DE I actually wonder at the moment if I should bother getting weapons, Prime weapons, Potatos, Rivens, Forma if a week later stuff like this can drop?

 

 

[GDSK-NXS]

8 minutes ago, AcceptYourDeath said:

Oh wait - It beats basically any bow in the game with its charge rate .....I am so glad I got myself a Cernos Prime  right? RIGHT?

it's not area based, like euphona's shotgun mode.

It has a slower rate of fire. The charge shots automatically, making presicion full charge shots harder.

It has less range than bows.

Also, it's currently bugged, so a fix is due, hopefully including those 7K slash procs.

 

Also, Cernos Prime is not that good to begin with. I get it, you are ranting about primes only, but don't compare a primary weapon to a secondary, and less, to a primary that isn't even the best of it's kind.

 

Also I agree with powercreep being an issue, it's been 3 years and my orthos is still rotting in my inventory, that outdated piece of junk.

Edited March 14, 2017 by GDSK-NXS

[Mepheri]

the only thing i do agree with you is that weapon mastery ranks should be reconsidered, we have really strong weapons super early on, like the redeemer on mr4, but as much as it annoys me in the ocd vein that warframe mastery to weapon is pretty random, i dont mind it that much that early game players get to expirience some strong weapons early on.

[Airwolfen]

Now compare them at lvl 80+ without armor stripping and suddenly the ferrox starts to drop off. HARD. I'd say that by now anything that you slap powercreep on should at the very least handle high armor targets quite easily. a weapon that can handle those can handle the entire game. 

At least the Euphona has affinity to become a status weapon that scales way beyond ferrox.

[AcceptYourDeath]

3 minutes ago, GDSK-NXS said:

it's not area based, like euphona's shotgun mode.

The shotgun mode limited to 3-4m? Right that`s an equalizer.

5 minutes ago, GDSK-NXS said:

Also, Cernos Prime is not that good to begin with. I get it, you are ranting about primes only, but don't compare a primary weapon to a secondary, and less, to a primary that isn't even the best of it's kind.

Yeah somewhat proves my point doesn`t it? Stuff which is essentially harder to get and needs more progression in most cases is overshadowed by early game. Usally that`s not how progression works.

I mean what would you say to somebody holding a Ferrox and asking you if they should get a Secura Dual Cestra? 

"Yeah you should totally go for it, it is an awfully bad weapon and you only need to grind up the ranks and throw stuff at this syndicate."

[ashrah]

we just need wepons sorted by tiers... then lock them by rank category...

[--RV--D4VE-]

Is this rant based on that someone did have more kills with ferrox than you with euphona? Because the way I see it, you are just throwing out stuff cuz you are mad, but why? What has to do prime access with it? You don't need it to get euphona nor banshee.

[Kalvorax]

33 minutes ago, AcceptYourDeath said:

The shotgun mode limited to 3-4m? Right that`s an equalizer.

before MASSIVE damage fall off yeah...but i can hit targets with shotgun mode at up to at least 50m...which by that point is only good for status procs lol

[Fallen_Echo]

4 hours ago, GDSK-NXS said:

It has less range than bows.

Also, it's currently bugged, so a fix is due, hopefully including those 7K slash procs.

How does it got less range than a bow? Its a hitscan weapon.

 

How is it bugged? So far i havent noticed anything other than the punchtrough issues.

[-Shikari-]

We get a few weapons that aren't Mastery fodder for once and everyone complains about powercreep. No pleasing the masses.

[Fallen_Echo]

35 minutes ago, EnterTheShikari said:

We get a few weapons that aren't Mastery fodder for once and everyone complains about powercreep. No pleasing the masses.

Welcome to the Nerfframe!

You have an actual usable weapon?

Powercreep, Op! DE nerf plz!

[AcceptYourDeath]

11 hours ago, --RV--D4VE- said:

Is this rant based on that someone did have more kills with ferrox than you with euphona? Because the way I see it, you are just throwing out stuff cuz you are mad, but why? What has to do prime access with it? You don't need it to get euphona nor banshee.

You don`t know me a single bit making that assumption 

This rant is about how new players have very little to look forward and downgrade for the majority with other weapons they might get. And about long time players feel this notion they can throw 80% of their arsenal and work into the trash. 

You don`t hand over Excalibur after the tutorial 

[GDSK-NXS]

On 14/3/2017 at 8:28 AM, AcceptYourDeath said:

The shotgun mode limited to 3-4m? Right that`s an equalizer.

Yeah somewhat proves my point doesn`t it? Stuff which is essentially harder to get and needs more progression in most cases is overshadowed by early game. Usally that`s not how progression works.

I mean what would you say to somebody holding a Ferrox and asking you if they should get a Secura Dual Cestra? 

"Yeah you should totally go for it, it is an awfully bad weapon and you only need to grind up the ranks and throw stuff at this syndicate."

If someone asked me, sure, go for it, mastery fodder. The cestras were bad from the beggining, so why even bother with the upgrade? It doesn't matter if it comes from a syndicate, prime, vandal or wraith, if the base weapon is trash then so is the upgraded version. Some weapons have potential, some doesn't. The cernos? doesn't. So I go back to my previous point, why compare the Ferrox, a Primary weapon with potential, with the Euphona (a secondary with potential), a Cernos (a primary without potential) and the cestras (a secondary without potential)?

Why don't you compare it to the tigris prime since you're all up for prime vs ferrox?

14 hours ago, AcceptYourDeath said:

You don`t know me a single bit making that assumption 

This rant is about how new players have very little to look forward and downgrade for the majority with other weapons they might get. And about long time players feel this notion they can throw 80% of their arsenal and work into the trash. 

You don`t hand over Excalibur after the tutorial 

New players sure are hyped about the ferrox, a weapon that allows them to play high level content and isn't locked behind 3 thousand walls. The powercreep sure makes guns outdated, unless you pour resources into actual good weapons, that is, the most meta, those with the potential to give the powercreep a fight. In that case, players won't have to throw work into the trash, because they are reliable (unless nerfs start rolling out), also, long time players will most likely have 95% of their arsenal in the trash at this point, since everything is a downgrade from other weapons, and the only thing that makes people build them is the mastery fodder. I personally have all the weapons in the game because I like them all, and I don't feel betrayed when the new weapons come in because I don't spend forma on anything to begin with, so there's nothing lost.

Also, comparing excalibur with anything in this thread is completely useless, unless you want to compare wukong, in which case yeah, I would rather hand over wukong than excalibur, because wukong is (in this meta world) the trash tier.

If DE gave a warframe like wukon or oberon at the start of the game players would most likely sell them without hesitation at the start because they are just not the top tier. Excaibur now, well, my 650K finishers tell me he's safe as the starter frame.

[aligatorno]

22 hours ago, EnterTheShikari said:

We get a few weapons that aren't Mastery fodder for once and everyone complains about powercreep. No pleasing the masses.

This is what I can never understand about the Warframe community. At all. There's always those people that : 

If we get good weapons that can handle high level missions, they are power creep. 

If we get sub-par or side-grade weapons, people complain that they are mastery fodder.

 

While I love Ferrox, it is far from a power creep weapon, there are so many more weapons that outshine it in every way. Is it a really good weapon though?Of course. It's really fun and refreshing

Euphona's altfire build for status cand easily outshine it. Even the main fire with good crit mods holds its own against Ferrox, but it is a bit silly to compare a secondary with a primary. 

Edited March 15, 2017 by aligatorno

[Madway7]

You do know this is (at least currently) a game mainly based around grinding right?

[-Akeva-Banshee-]

On ‎3‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 6:12 AM, GDSK-NXS said:

Also I agree with powercreep being an issue, it's been 3 years and my orthos is still rotting in my inventory, that outdated piece of junk.

Try looking for the "critical Whackerslapper" Orthos build on the WF mod builds site. And yeah Orthos is not a piece of junk.

That being said power creep is becoming more and more of an issue. RIVENS CANT FIX ALL WEAPONS!

[Azlen]

8 minutes ago, aligatorno said:

This is what I can never understand about the Warframe community. At all. There's always those people that : 

If we get good weapons that can handle high level missions, they are power creep. 

If we get sub-par or side-grade weapons, people complain that they are mastery fodder.

 

A wise man once said...

If you aren't whining, are you even really on the forums?

I can only assume these people take this to heart :p

[Madway7]

6 minutes ago, aligatorno said:

This is what I can never understand about the Warframe community. At all. There's always those people that : 

If we get good weapons that can handle high level missions, they are power creep. 

If we get sub-par or side-grade weapons, people complain that they are mastery fodder.

 

Let's say only 10 people play this game. A new weapon comes out.

2 complain the weapon is not good enough. 2 say it's good enough. 6 are silent and keep playing the game.

Another new weapon comes out. 2 say it's too powerful. 2 say it's not. 6 remain silent.

Okay out of these numbers used to just describe amount of actions taken. Do you think it was always the same 4 people talking and same 6 silent?

People have different opinions about different things. 

[Kaotyke]

19 minutes ago, aligatorno said:

This is what I can never understand about the Warframe community. At all. There's always those people that : 

If we get good weapons that can handle high level missions, they are power creep. 

If we get sub-par or side-grade weapons, people complain that they are mastery fodder.

 

While I love Ferrox, it is far from a power creep weapon, there are so many more weapons that outshine it in every way. Is it a really good weapon though?Of course. It's really fun and refreshing

Euphona's altfire build for status cand easily outshine it. Even the main fire with good crit mods holds its own against Ferrox, but it is a bit silly to compare a secondary with a primary. 

I mean, its not like a community is made of PEOPLE and each of these PEOPLE have this thing called DIFFERENT OPINIONS, right?

There is no pleasing everyone. And the OP has nothing constructive.

[--RV--D4VE-]

15 hours ago, AcceptYourDeath said:

You don`t know me a single bit making that assumption 

This rant is about how new players have very little to look forward and downgrade for the majority with other weapons they might get. And about long time players feel this notion they can throw 80% of their arsenal and work into the trash. 

You don`t hand over Excalibur after the tutorial 

It may be shocking to you, but ppl play games actually for fun, and not everyone has to go for the most op gun, sure mostly everyone has a tonkor in their inventory but does it mean you have to use it always? nope. Nothing stops you from using akjagara, phage or w/e weapon you like. Some ppl like what other consider mastery fodder. What I'm saying is, it's not always about upgrades and downgrades, but what you like. If more folks would actually use the guns while leveling than going Bere (earlier Draco) things might have been different. 

[(XBOX)ThermalStone]

Power creep is healthy in a game like this.  It gives players with everything a reason to be excited for new content and injects replayability into the game as we forma our new kit and get it ready for endgame.  If you are concerned for your old equipment, it still works just as well as before.  This isn't PvP where you are always looking for the slightest edge over other players.

[Wiz3rd]

Personally i see Euphonas flaws and the comparison to Ferrox, but I don't like using Ferrox. Euphona feels nice to me.

That simple.

And as for the powercreep: It's good. Really good even, but not gamebreaking, so I don't see a problem.

[Rakosta_Kai]

I haven't tried the Ferrox yet... Not a huge fans of corpus designs. That said,  I would buy it in a heartbeat if it had a decent Gungnir skin because I like the idea behind it.

On the whole thing with parity of normal, research and prime items: I don't see anything wrong with this... It's one more way the game keeps from becoming p2w or bottle-necked into being "Primes are best...", etc.

Powercreep is a natural occurrence in most games so that, in and of itself, isn't the issue.

The issues (for me) are:

• The fuzzy tiers that weapons have.
• The idea that for every good weapon, another seems to need to be bad to balance it out. (DE seems to love "whammy" items) 
• That a weapon like the Hind has to be expensive to build and be objectively bad at it's core.
• That tools galore are provided to make weapon able to be tuned to handle enemies in the 80-140 tier but there is no mission slider or commensurate rewards for the work taken to tackle that challenge.
• That lowlier weapons exist in this game at all given that the deciding factor is supposed to be modding to individual preference. (Hind vs Dex Sybaris modded the same way and we know which wins. The point is that it should be a tie). 
• The fact that Rivens are the only equalizer for this disparity.

Instead of constantly making crafting mat reqs insane they could add weapon related crafting options that make older weapons work better. This gets material out of inventories and encourages players to want to grind for mats to modify that weapon we like as opposed to feeling like we have to do xyz as it's the only option. 

Research a new Hind trigger, receiver, or barrel to improve the base hind's performance, use the blueprints to modify the hind itself... Suddenly people are complaining less about the new weapon's powercreep potential and are now number crunching to get their Hind to match it. 

 

 

[GDSK-NXS]

4 hours ago, -Akeva-Banshee- said:

Try looking for the "critical Whackerslapper" Orthos build on the WF mod builds site. And yeah Orthos is not a piece of junk.

That being said power creep is becoming more and more of an issue. RIVENS CANT FIX ALL WEAPONS!

With 5% crit chance...??? To clarify, I was referring to orthos, not the primed variant which looks (in my opinion) less appealing.

[Arniox]

On 3/15/2017 at 0:12 AM, GDSK-NXS said:

Also, it's currently bugged, so a fix is due, hopefully including those 7K slash procs.

how is it bugged currently?