[Update 20] Limbo Revisited Feedback Megathread

[Fallen_Echo]

18 hours ago, Ardhanarishvara said:

Cataclysm: Obviously the nuking mechanic has to go. I don't think it works well having any sort of damage mechanic on it. The energy regain and synergy with Stasis Core and Rift Surge alone would really give it value.
Suggestion: Would strongly suggest removing the shrinking mechanic. Maybe have the bubble crack and break, visually, to show it's reaching its limit before it shatters? Also, please let us actually interact with other items in Cataclysm, like antidote injectors, mobile defence points, life support pillars, consoles for hacking...

Then they aswell create a brand new skill for him.

The description of it screams lethal dimensional collapse i expect it to do that.

But i have an idea for it.

 

Cataclysm: When casted allies in the rift are placed back in the material plane while enemies inside the rift are crushed. Damage is affected by power strenght and starts from 20% of each enemies max health. Cataclysm drains all of limbos current energy while dealing extra 500 puncture and impact damage for every 10% max energy limbo had.

No more rift sphere or any other effect this thing only works on banished enemies in the rift.

[-CM-NineFingers]

1 hour ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Then they aswell create a brand new skill for him.

The description of it screams lethal dimensional collapse i expect it to do that.

But i have an idea for it.

 

Cataclysm: When casted allies in the rift are placed back in the material plane while enemies inside the rift are crushed. Damage is affected by power strenght and starts from 20% of each enemies max health. Cataclysm drains all of limbos current energy while dealing extra 500 puncture and impact damage for every 10% max energy limbo had.

No more rift sphere or any other effect this thing only works on banished enemies in the rift.

And thus, you destroy half his synergy, remove all utility from rift torrent, and drain him of power at the same time. Damn, you must really hate Limbo.

[Fallen_Echo]

22 minutes ago, -CM-Limbo said:

And thus, you destroy half his synergy, remove all utility from rift torrent, and drain him of power at the same time. Damn, you must really hate Limbo.

Why?

You can banish enemies into the rift.

Still keep em stasised.

Rift torrrent still banishes them back to the rift.

And he got a not spammable nuke skill what is dependant on the others.

[-CM-NineFingers]

30 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Why?

You can banish enemies into the rift.

Still keep em stasised.

Rift torrrent still banishes them back to the rift.

And he got a not spammable nuke skill what is dependant on the others.

You can die in the cataclysm from enemies outside the rift (" allies in the rift are placed back in the material plane") or you can deal no damage in the whole bubble, except the AoE effect. You can't use rift surge to gain damage. You lose all energy in one ability (wow! perfect! it's exactly as powerful as the other nukes! What? regardless of efficiency? that's even better!").

so that means, with a primed flow, you get to spend 638 energy in ONE. SINGLE. ABILITY. Or you can use it at the last moment to gain... Oh, 0 extra damage.

Now seriously, how in the world did that sounded like a good idea? Stripping him of all his energy to give him a S#&$ty single use nuke?"but it scales!" yeah, and armored enemies will find out it tickles. There's no way that suggestion is viable.

No. Leave limbo as he is, the king of CC, and forget of nukes. Specially nukes that take all your energy if you dare use it.

You can still banish and cast stasis, yeah... In a minute or so, because cataclysm brings you to 0 energy.

As I said... you must really hate Limbo.

[Fallen_Echo]

8 minutes ago, -CM-Limbo said:

You can die in the cataclysm from enemies outside the rift (" allies in the rift are placed back in the material plane") or you can deal no damage in the whole bubble, except the AoE effect. You can't use rift surge to gain damage. You lose all energy in one ability (wow! perfect! it's exactly as powerful as the other nukes! What? regardless of efficiency? that's even better!").

so that means, with a primed flow, you get to spend 638 energy in ONE. SINGLE. ABILITY. Or you can use it at the last moment to gain... Oh, 0 extra damage.

Now seriously, how in the world did that sounded like a good idea? Stripping him of all his energy to give him a S#&$ty single use nuke?"but it scales!" yeah, and armored enemies will find out it tickles. There's no way that suggestion is viable.

No. Leave limbo as he is, the king of CC, and forget of nukes. Specially nukes that take all your energy if you dare use it.

You can still banish and cast stasis, yeah... In a minute or so, because cataclysm brings you to 0 energy.

As I said... you must really hate Limbo.

Hmm i didnt think that throught.

How about 500 puncure and impact for every enemy in the rift and we keep the impenetrable dimensional line? 

It would grant the same defense capatibility and would deal acceptable damage.

[-CM-NineFingers]

3 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Hmm i didnt think that throught.

How about 500 puncure and impact for every enemy in the rift and we keep the impenetrable dimensional line? 

It would grant the same defense capatibility and would deal acceptable damage.

The problem is, 1000 damage is just what it did before the rework when you spammed it.

If it still consumes all your energy, it's not worth using. Limbo now is hella useful for mobile defenses and excavations. If you lose all energy on each cast, you can't keep the objectives protected without using energy pads or a trin.

Limbo is designed around being a solo frame, he's not a dps that needs assistance or a nuker. He must be able to go around alone, that's why a nukespam is not suitable for Limbo.

If you want damage, I'd say make Cataclysm start from minimum range and grow to maximum before exploding,  deal damage over time, and remove 20% of the enemy combined health+shields+armor (effectively removing a 20% of the enemy total health bar) if it concludes by itself. That keeps Cataclysm as is, in CC terms, but also gives you a bit of damage and a nuke at the end. That would make viable a minimum duration build (that would F*** the rest of your kit, tho, but it's the price to pay) that lets you nuke eery 15 seconds or so, and at the same time you can keep using him as always.

The DoT would get rid of trashmobs on a duration build by itself, that's very nice, and on a nuke build you would need that 20% to deal the damage, so spamming would stop to a degree.

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

3 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Cataclysm: When casted allies in the rift are placed back in the material plane while enemies inside the rift are crushed. Damage is affected by power strenght and starts from 20% of each enemies max health. Cataclysm drains all of limbos current energy while dealing extra 500 puncture and impact damage for every 10% max energy limbo had.

No more rift sphere or any other effect this thing only works on banished enemies in the rift.

Limbo doesn't need the nuke.

I cast Stasis with Cataclysm on a group of enemies from a distance. I go into the rift outside of Cataclysm's range. I then set up a few Lanka head shots built for gas and crit (I know it was nerfed but its still strong.) I deactivate Stasis. Tada! 80k damage everywhere from sniper range. I didn't even have Surge running.

You just have to be creative. He doesn't need a nuke.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

The Rift is just as inconsistent as before and I chalk it up to 'Space Magic'

Simaris Traps work cross dimensional but the Codex & Synthesis Scanners do not. (Synthesis targets that can Rift-Walk)

Limbo and Rifted allies can have Shields and Health drained from Cold and outer psace environment. Same with end of Life-Support Survival still drain a different dimensional Limbo. Or Nullifiers and Combas having cross dimensional affects where as Exlated Melee weapons which are Abilities, cannot cross these same dimensional planes.

 

I am guessing 'Space Magic' is fickle and works selectively, regardless of logic.

 

Edit: To clarify post: I am in support for consistency in regards to cross-dimensional damage being addressed.

Edited April 30, 2017 by (PS4)MrNishi

[(PSN)MrNishi]

On 4/29/2017 at 6:00 AM, ChameleonBro said:

He is a lot better in high levels than in low levels as in low levels it is not necessary to use his skills because you can mow enemies down with your weapons. However he shines a lot more in higher levels.

The problems he makes for his teammates are easily avoidable. You can easily tell if you are banished so you can just roll out of it.

If you see frozen enemies you are not forced to kill them, in fact Limbos entire purpose is to isolate enemies from his teammates so that can take care of them so that it is easier for teammates to focus on other enemies. If you see him use Stasis just simply walk out of the Cataclysm and kill enemies that are not frozen, it's that simple.

People are just acting like blind sheep without putting any though whatsoever and just jump on the bandwagon of "Limbo is a troll frame"  just because they can.

I am experiencing different Stasis then what you described.

I get enemies that are in Stasis but not inside Cataclysm with a Limbo that is not killing these targets ... they are just Banished and frozen.

Really drags on the Defense Waves when this is occurring all 10 rounds of Design Council Alert.

Worse for Limbo trolling still goes to Trials...when Limbo puts Cataclysm on people trying to hack puzzles or stay on Pressure-Pads, as it removes them from that plane of existence.

•How am I supposed to work around a Limbo using Cataclysm on consoles/pads? 

•I also don't know how I am supposed to kill Banished and Stasis'd enemies outside Cataclysm and with no Rift portal to enter. (Just like Nidus Paralysis-linked enemy)

 

 

[(PSN)psycofang]

23 minutes ago, (PS4)MrNishi said:

•I also don't know how I am supposed to kill Banished and Stasis'd enemies outside Cataclysm and with no Rift portal to enter. (Just like Nidus Paralysis-linked enemy)

 

Use your powers or channel your melee.

[(PSN)psycofang]

I ran today's sortie and get fire procd by a grineer trap

 

In the rift

 

Why do i still play this frame? Harrow better be a super unique and interesting frame because i feel i need to switch.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

18 minutes ago, (PS4)psycofang said:

 

Use your powers or channel your melee.

Rip-line and Hysteria do not affect cross-dimensional enemies.

Paralysis sadly does not deal enough damage to kill them.

 

Thank you for the channeling tip, I did not know that Channeling Melee was cross-dimensional.

 

[(PSN)psycofang]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)MrNishi said:

Thank you for the channeling tip, I did not know that Channeling Melee was cross-dimensional

I ment to put -maybe- channel your weapon as ive anecdotally seen someone use hirudo to kill a surge stasis target after i cata surged the area meaning no one but the enemies shouldve been in the rift.

F me and my typing.

[(PSN)psycofang]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)MrNishi said:

Rip-line and Hysteria do not affect cross-dimensional enemies.

Void empowered powers not effecting cross dimensional enemies has never made sense.

[Buzkyl]

Limbo is still extremely disruptive to a team. Yes his abilities are very powerful however he is very annoying to both friend and doe whether intentionally or not. I love being  the Limbo, however Limbo is not as fun to play with.

• Cataclysm locking you out of hacking and forcing you out of console when hacking has to be addressed
• There is still no visual cue that you can roll out of banish. Leaving many teammates frustrated as they are stuck in the rift
• Because of the interaction between Rift and Banish/cataclsym Limbo can leave a large amount of enemies stuck within the Rift unable to be hurt by teammates. The common argument is "warframe skills damage through the rift" however frame such as Loki, Vauban, Mirage, Inaros ect lack heavy damaging abilities to circumvent this.

 

Limbo is a great frame but No frame should have this much control over how others play. This does't take into consideration stasis and the grievances that can cause.

Possible solutions?

 

1.  Enemies affected by Rift Surge can be damaged across both planes- Enemies under the Rift Surge effect can now be damaged from both planes. This means that allies can now kill Rifted enemies from the material plane. Enemies however who try to damage allies on the opposing plane will deal 75% of their original damage.  Right now Rift surge isn't quite useful without the augment, this change not only provides greater use to the skill, but it allows Limbo to be a greater teamplayer within the squad. Because surge enemies can be damaged across planes there will be alot less instances of Limbo accidentally trolling his team by locking an enemy within the rift.
2. Consoles  should be able to be hacked within cataclsym- Or at the very least, not force you out of hacking, it's possible to interact with friendship door through the rift, consoles should follow suit. Another possible solution is to make hacking force you out of the rift on the action key.

Edited May 1, 2017 by Buzkyl

[Fallen_Echo]

13 hours ago, -CM-Limbo said:

The problem is, 1000 damage is just what it did before the rework when you spammed it.

If it still consumes all your energy, it's not worth using. Limbo now is hella useful for mobile defenses and excavations. If you lose all energy on each cast, you can't keep the objectives protected without using energy pads or a trin.

Limbo is designed around being a solo frame, he's not a dps that needs assistance or a nuker. He must be able to go around alone, that's why a nukespam is not suitable for Limbo.

If you want damage, I'd say make Cataclysm start from minimum range and grow to maximum before exploding,  deal damage over time, and remove 20% of the enemy combined health+shields+armor (effectively removing a 20% of the enemy total health bar) if it concludes by itself. That keeps Cataclysm as is, in CC terms, but also gives you a bit of damage and a nuke at the end. That would make viable a minimum duration build (that would F*** the rest of your kit, tho, but it's the price to pay) that lets you nuke eery 15 seconds or so, and at the same time you can keep using him as always.

The DoT would get rid of trashmobs on a duration build by itself, that's very nice, and on a nuke build you would need that 20% to deal the damage, so spamming would stop to a degree.

From what i heard he was designed to be a part of a tactical co-op team. No frames were ever designed for solo play.

On another note i would agree with the growing cataclysm builds slowly shredding mobs.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

17 hours ago, (PS4)psycofang said:

Void empowered powers not effecting cross dimensional enemies has never made sense.

Strongly agreed!

[Music4Therapy]

On 4/25/2017 at 6:27 AM, Fallen_Echo said:

No bullet stop at all, only freezing the enemies in place.

The bullet stopping is what makes the ability balanced, similar to Volt's Discharge having a damage cap. Without the bullet stopping, Limbo's stasis is basically a better, cheaper Rhino stomp.

[Fallen_Echo]

49 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

The bullet stopping is what makes the ability balanced, similar to Volt's Discharge having a damage cap. Without the bullet stopping, Limbo's stasis is basically a better, cheaper Rhino stomp.

And with bullet stopping limbos stasis is just a more annoying version of rhino's stomp.

[salem8171]

My Limbo feedback:

Probably no one cares but first I wanna say how much I like limbo he's one of my favorite frames before and after his rework excluding the nuking part (My 4th most used frame in 2300h ingame xD ). His theme is amazing, his fashion frame is amazing, great synergy with huras kubrow, He's good at what he does, especially in solo. It took me some time to adapt to the new rework I'm not asking for another rework but I just feel the need of some tweaks:

• A buff icon that indicates the rift state: Depending on the tile set and graphic settings the visual effect of the rift doesn't feel different from the standard rift and it takes a couple of dashes to distinguish between them so a buff icon would be appreciated.
• Catalysm nullified: I know that this is working as intended, nullifiers doing their job and all but the fact that catalysm has a huge range makes nullifiers more than just a challenge for limbo especially that limbo relies too much on his rift state for survivability. I mean how can I deal with a nullifier that is like 50m away in a different room from where I am and transport me and all the mobs near me to the normal rift and get 1shoted. I can safely say that I died with limbo every single time this happened and I can't think of anything to counter it other than not using limbo in the 1st place. What I'm suggesting is either make catalysm immune to nullifiers until limbo himself is inside the nully bubble like any other frame with big range ability (molecular prime, chaos sphere..) or if that doesn't make any sense just make limbo not lose his rift state when he's out of catalysm.
• The shrinking catalysm: This shrinking mechanic is making a lot of problems with stasis. The shrinking cause enemies to go in and out of the rift which is annoying as it makes enemies avoid your bullets that were stopped by stasis. Somehow these enemies are able to deal damage to players/objectives inside the rift even though it is theoretically impossible. It also makes the duration on catalysm irrelevant as we have to recast before the duration ends to keep the catalysm territory large enough for limbo to roam. It also "drains" the damage buff from rift torrent as enemies are constantly leaving the rift as the globe shrink. It would be appreciated if the ability expands instead of shrinking or at least keep a constant radius.
• Rift torrent seems bugged??: It doesn't affect catalysm's damage probably other abilities too but I couldn't care less. But the problem is the damage sometimes doesn't apply to weapons. I think this is restricted to bosses and capture targets (need more testing) probably related to the fact that they connot be banished or freezed by stasis and the only way to banish them is through catalysm.
• Kuva guardians are immune to stasis and banish until they get disarmed (Not sure if it's a bug)
• Some hazards/enemies still ignore rifts: teslas in kuva rescue mission, freezed floor in lua spy, ambulas' fire (pls fix this before the event) and probably others that I forgot/don't know about.

I also wanted to say that unlike what a lot of people say rift surge is underrated and actually very useful with or without augment, has great synergy with catalysm and stasis and saves me from banish spamming, hell it even fixes the shrinking catalysm problem but it's just a band aid so we still need that fixed.

Thanks for reading my wall of text. Cheers.

[-CM-NineFingers]

30 minutes ago, salem8171 said:

I mean how can I deal with a nullifier that is like 50m away in a different room from where I am and transport me and all the mobs near me to the normal rift and get 1shoted

Git gud.

Nah, I'm joking. After reading, I agree on the nullifier part, but not completely. Cataclysm is not an AoE, it's a zone with a hard limit, like frost's bubble. And like frost's bubble, I think it should keep dispelling when a nullifier touches it. But the part on Limbo mantaining the rift state, that's what I agree on.

P.S.: Think about how Cataclysm is a dimensional bubble. You can't cut a hole in it, and it's even more difficult for it to keep stabilized when there's a dimensional bubble inside a dimensional bubble. It makes sense it ends instantly.

[-CM-NineFingers]

8 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

From what i heard he was designed to be a part of a tactical co-op team. No frames were ever designed for solo play.

On another note i would agree with the growing cataclysm builds slowly shredding mobs.

Technically yes, you could say that, but nobody liked the Rift mechanic at the start. DE messed up badly, and we ended with a frame that could forbid you from using a console, pick up items, deal damage with their weapons and such. They created a monster that the playerbase didn't like, and the rework has still not corrected everything (consoles are still a huge problem if limbo wants to troll).

But Stasis is an ability clearly designed with limbo, and only limbo, in mind.  Teammates are never sure how to react to a stasis cataclysm, and if they do, most times they just enter a frenzy of fire that dispels it. when you have an ability designed in a way that forces your whole team to play along, it's easy to see it's not designed around teamplay, imho.

[Fallen_Echo]

20 minutes ago, -CM-Limbo said:

Technically yes, you could say that, but nobody liked the Rift mechanic at the start. DE messed up badly, and we ended with a frame that could forbid you from using a console, pick up items, deal damage with their weapons and such. They created a monster that the playerbase didn't like, and the rework has still not corrected everything (consoles are still a huge problem if limbo wants to troll).

But Stasis is an ability clearly designed with limbo, and only limbo, in mind.  Teammates are never sure how to react to a stasis cataclysm, and if they do, most times they just enter a frenzy of fire that dispels it. when you have an ability designed in a way that forces your whole team to play along, it's easy to see it's not designed around teamplay, imho.

Im sure there could be something done to fit limbo and please the playerbase.

Rift surge could be used to make allies able to attack enemies normally in stasis.

Or make stasis suck in and auto launch attacks gathered at stasised targets. No more teammate limbo trolling, every attack is consumed and dealt to a stasised enemy in the rift, if there is no target spent shots turn into a 1 use damage buff (like mesa's ballistic battery) for the shooter. 

[-CM-NineFingers]

43 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Im sure there could be something done to fit limbo and please the playerbase.

Rift surge could be used to make allies able to attack enemies normally in stasis.

Or make stasis suck in and auto launch attacks gathered at stasised targets. No more teammate limbo trolling, every attack is consumed and dealt to a stasised enemy in the rift, if there is no target spent shots turn into a 1 use damage buff (like mesa's ballistic battery) for the shooter. 

While it doesn't look too bad, I don't see how the buff would fit Limbo's theme. I'd prefer stasis to slow the bulletspeed of allied weapons instead of stopping them. Imagine every shoot flying at 10% of the normal speed. That would encourage getting close to shoot, and be careful when shooting to avoid breaking the bullet limit. I could see that working fine honestly.

[Insizer]

I personally love the new limbo.  Before he was extremely clunky to use, now he is more or less seamless.  People complain about Banish, but Banish has always been an issue, because you'd accidentally banish an ally and then be unable to unbanish them because they wouldn't stop moving.  At least now you easily unbanish allies.  Plus the Banish cone makes it so much easier to use against enemies.  Stasis is about the only issue that Limbo has with regards to teamplay.  Its a neat and useful idea, but can lead to issues.  I've been more fortunate than others perhaps because whenever I've been Limbo, my allies innately understood that frozen enemies = melee time.  Perhaps this is because go out of my way to not bother my allies.  I don't spam Cataclysm, I don't run max range builds, I don't use the cata-stasis combo much if at all (unless it is a defense-type mission), and I try to make sure that my allies are not in my Banish cone.  I use Stasis fairly often but combo it with Banish and while wielding a shotgun and Jat Kitty.  

3 hours ago, Music4Therapy said:

The bullet stopping is what makes the ability balanced, similar to Volt's Discharge having a damage cap. Without the bullet stopping, Limbo's stasis is basically a better, cheaper Rhino stomp.

I agree that in a way the bullet stopping balances out Stasis, but your analogy to Volt Discharge is a bit... bad.  I get what you are saying, but the damage cap prevents Discharge from scaling well and leads to a lot of unreliability.