[Update 20] Limbo Revisited Feedback Megathread

[Alpacnologia]

On 25/04/2017 at 0:32 PM, Fallen_Echo said:

Before we start i just started to use limbo since monday so please bear with me.

From my observations limbo on regular mission is....well useless.

Most missions are too low in level to actively use limbos skillset, by the time i cast banish, stasis and enter the rift i could just mow them down with any medicore gun.

The banish cone acdidentally hitting my allies hinders their gameplay and since it could suck in mobs too its hard to use it to save someone from immient death on top of this you can only use it on targets on the same plane and those who are not on the same plane cant do anything with the others.

Allies inside the rift are more annoyed by stasis than thankful.

Rift surge causes problems as it send more targets into the rift hindering others gameplay.

Cataclysm deals almost no damage and has the same gameplay hindering problems as banish.

The only places i found him useful are sorties where the mobs are more dangerous and the kuva siphon missions.

Now i would like to know if i am wrong in here because honestly i hoped more from the "master of the rift" even after the cataclysm nerf. 

Is this the limbo what DE seen in their visions when they first showed him to the public or is this just a twisted abonimation what born from that infamous last trick ordis talks about?

he's a cc frame meant to hinder the enemy's movement, well done

also you must be building him wrong if cataclysm deals almost no damage.

[Music4Therapy]

2 minutes ago, Insizer said:

I agree that in a way the bullet stopping balances out Stasis, but your analogy to Volt Discharge is a bit... bad.  I get what you are saying, but the damage cap prevents Discharge from scaling well and leads to a lot of unreliability.

Discharge spreads rapidly and goes much further than the range would suggest. Due to the nature of the spreading mechanic, its understandable a damage cap would be put in place so that it couldn't just spread over the whole map and keep everything stunned the full duration.

 

EDIT: I do agree that a damage cap being placed on a CC mechanic does cause it to be unreliable, and I unreliable CC isn't great CC.

Edited May 1, 2017 by Music4Therapy

[Insizer]

Just now, Music4Therapy said:

Discharge spreads rapidly and goes much further than the range would suggest. Due to the nature of the spreading mechanic, its understandable a damage cap would be put in place so that it couldn't just spread over the whole map and keep everything stunned the full duration.

I understand the mechanics of Discharge, I'm a Volt main.  I understand the reasoning of why they have a damage cap (they didn't want a long duration hard CC, not spreading which is limited to enemies caught within the range during the first 4 seconds of the duration), but that damage cap often makes the ability unreliable.  That's all I'm saying.  Nothing more, nothing less.

[Fallen_Echo]

27 minutes ago, Alpacnologia said:

also you must be building him wrong if cataclysm deals almost no damage.

2000 explosive damage plus 10% avarage hp of the enemy is almost nothing and this is a max strenght build numbers.

[DeeDeetheSpy]

So... 

 

If a banished enemy is surged and they die they spread the surged status to unbanished enemies but not the banished status.

If a banished enemy is surged and they become unbanished then they lose the surged status and they will regain the banished status along with putting the banished status on all unbanished enemies around them.

If a unbanished enemy is surged and they die, nothing is spread.

 

Sound about right?

Edited May 2, 2017 by DeeDeetheSpy
missing words

[PsiWarp]

Yup. The kill-spread is pretty much designed with Rift Torrent in mind, since the damage bonus is kept if a material-bound enemy gets surged.

The re-banish helps keeping you safe in the Rift while being able to bring a small group of enemies in. Most people would just Cataclysm and freeze the whole maptile than bother with that though.

[hukurokuju5]

any kill or banish of surged enemy will result in pulling more enemies into the rift

its not complicated at all. because it is a one way ticket(only works to bring enemies into the rift) and not out

[ChameleonBro]

On 4/30/2017 at 9:43 PM, (PS4)MrNishi said:

I am experiencing different Stasis then what you described.

I get enemies that are in Stasis but not inside Cataclysm with a Limbo that is not killing these targets ... they are just Banished and frozen.

Really drags on the Defense Waves when this is occurring all 10 rounds of Design Council Alert.

Worse for Limbo trolling still goes to Trials...when Limbo puts Cataclysm on people trying to hack puzzles or stay on Pressure-Pads, as it removes them from that plane of existence.

•How am I supposed to work around a Limbo using Cataclysm on consoles/pads? 

•I also don't know how I am supposed to kill Banished and Stasis'd enemies outside Cataclysm and with no Rift portal to enter. (Just like Nidus Paralysis-linked enemy)

 

 

They are banished and frozen but they are still dead, just frozen. It may look like they aren't but they are dead, it is just their corpses.

Let me ask you how many Limbos did you encounter who would drop a Cataclysm on you while hacking ? I sure as hell never did, and the only time when that happened is when I used Cataclysm on accident when someone was hacking.

You can kill enemies that are frozen just by going into Cataclysm and using melee (best weapon type in the game). If the enemies are just banished ignore them because it is Limbos job to kill them not yours. Don't create problems for yourself that don't exist.

Limbos purpose and job is to isolate enemies and kill them for his teammates so that they have an easier time getting rid of other enemies. If you try to interfere you will make problems for yourself and make Limbo less useful.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

29 minutes ago, ChameleonBro said:

They are banished and frozen but they are still dead, just frozen. It may look like they aren't but they are dead, it is just their corpses.

Let me ask you how many Limbos did you encounter who would drop a Cataclysm on you while hacking ? I sure as hell never did, and the only time when that happened is when I used Cataclysm on accident when someone was hacking.

You can kill enemies that are frozen just by going into Cataclysm and using melee (best weapon type in the game). If the enemies are just banished ignore them because it is Limbos job to kill them not yours. Don't create problems for yourself that don't exist.

Limbos purpose and job is to isolate enemies and kill them for his teammates so that they have an easier time getting rid of other enemies. If you try to interfere you will make problems for yourself and make Limbo less useful.

During the Design Council Melee-only Defense Waves the enemies that were frozen via Stasis were still showing as Red enemy markers but the Cataclysm bubble had shrunk to where the enemies were no longer in Cataclysm bit somehow still in Stasis. It could be possible that the Limbo I was with, did in fact Banish those enemies and may have been trolling us anyway...or could have run out of power since it seemed it was always Parasitic Eximus Units that were left in the rift with no Cataclysm for the other team to deal with them. (Still don't know why he would Void Dash to give us a portal to enter, to kill the enemies.)*

I run Enemy Radar and these enemies registered as red blips and the Defense Wave did not end. 

 Normally run Melee only and I personally leave certain CC'd enemis for the player that casts to deal with said Enemies. Atlas that stone gazes...I just leave those enemies alone.

Frost ice-cubing enemies. I also leave those as his responsibility to kill.

Same goes for Rhino stomped, Hydroid puddle, Zephyr Tornadoe, Nidus Parasitic-link, and others. I have made the decision that the player casting those abilities has decided to mark those enemies to kill by themselves. (Since they made it more difficult for me to kill them. And likewise I am pretty sure Gun players do not appreciate me Ragdoll pulling all nearby enemies into a ground-state.)

Pre-Limbo rework I also left Banished/Cataclysm enemies as his to kill....except Prolonged Paralysis could pull enemies out of Cataclysm so that I could kill them like normal.

 

With new Stasis: Prolonged Paralysis has no CC effect no stun or pull. (Which is understandable since Stasis is a hard CC)*

The Limbos I was dealing with may have been getting acclimated with the recent changes, since I have run a cross a lot less Limbos in public matches now. (If there is a Limbo in a match now- it seems to be a Cataclysm Nuker (PS4 has not received fix/Nerf) or an AFK'er = void dash to enter rift and then stand on Sortie Interception control node and do nothing.)

There has only been a 3 matches where I played with a Limbo that used Cataclysm sparringly. Or was generous like always leaving a portal near enemies  that had been Banished and the Limbo was moving to another area.

 

I was only complaining that it seemed Limbo had more ways to interfere with other player's ability to kill enemies than other Warframes. Even to the point of not allowing an objective or enemy to be completed/killed.

(The LoR and JV incidences we're just frustrating...having 6/8 people on a puzzle pad in 2nd room and then Limbo Cataclysm someone on a pad. Or Cataclysm a pad in 3rd part at Vay Hek getting Bomb runner trapped and just letting Cataclysm expire rather than manually collapse. 

In JV it was more of a Cataclysm making players on pads close doors to Nerves that needed to be destroyed.

This felt more like trolling than players not realizing they are hindering progression.  Few times I was wishing Nullifiers would come to the rescue, other time I wish Nullifies would help is when I get glitched into an ability unable to end the power (stuck as power in-service))

 

 

 

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

Really, I don't use his first power much. I use it to pull select groups into the rift when I am trying to control the number of targets as I phase in and out of the rift myself. 

Stasis should not be used 100% of the time unless your team is set up in a way to benefit from it. I use it to ease tough situations or quick bursts to thin the crowd. Definitely don't use it often if you plan on rifting everything on the map all the time...

Surge, again I use to control the number of crowds I'm phasing out to thin the population at a controlled pace, but more so on teams where people are power-heavy or take advantage of the numerous benefits of being in the rift themself. 

Cataclysm is actually pretty awesome if you are well built. I built for range/duration and some damage. I can maintain Cataclysm as long as I need to allowing for varied use of surge and statis as necessary, lets me control the number of enemies i engage. Allows my teammates to decide when they want to use the rift. And one of the nice little extras is that you can throw it like a nuke at crowds and instantly turn it off to kill trash mobs (especially in low-mid level content) and kill weaker mobs at higher level and handle the tougher mobs easily with his skillset.

[Enderlook]

I think that Haven should also heal limbo. However, Limbo can enter into the rift free, so I think that he could only heal himself using Cataclysm (an even he could heal less, like 10%).

Spoiler

 

[Somb3rBivalve]

Honestly, there's no point. Limbo has so little armor and so little health that any reasonable percent of his health healed is like one enemy bullet hitting him. Limbo is supposed to avoid taking damage in the first place, hence why he is so squishy without the rift mechanics to save him.

This augment would be better if putting allies in the rift via banish initiated a per second heal that would eventually put the ally at full health if they chose to take advantage of it

[PsiWarp]

After Banish got changed to be plane-dependent, Haven took a huge hit in usability since before you can just spam several casts to heal up allies to full... now you have to roll back and forth and still have to spam. I don't find it worth the slot anymore, not when Rift Torrent and Cataclysm Continuum offer longer lasting benefits.

Life Strike works better with Stasis + Cataclysm or Banish for Limbo's personal healing needs, IMO.

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

You can still spam Banish on allies if your intention is to heal them with Haven but you're gonna have to do it inside Cataclysm.

But let's be honest here. How many augments in game are actually not very useful or are very situational? I know Frost and Ember have augments that lets their 1 give cold and heat damage to allies but do people actually use these augments?

[Prophet]

I believe that I am late to the discussion on Limbo's rework, if this is the right place. With the new rework, and the subsequent Cataclysm nerf, I feel that the nerf was too harsh. Enough about that now. I'm here to propose a mechanical suggestion to Limbo. As it is right now, Limbo's animation when entering and leaving the rift locks into the animation and does not let you do anything until the move is completed. My suggestion is to let Limbo be able to banish while in the middle of the dash in order to add an additional layer of safety, and a faster response time for clutch banishes that can be very important in saving an ally or stopping an enemy.

[Prophet]

Just now, Gr1d1ron said:

I believe that I am late to the discussion on Limbo's rework, if this is the right place. With the new rework, and the subsequent Cataclysm nerf, I feel that the nerf was too harsh. Enough about that now. I'm here to propose a mechanical suggestion to Limbo. As it is right now, Limbo's animation when entering and leaving the rift locks into the animation and does not let you do anything until the move is completed. My suggestion is to let Limbo be able to banish while in the middle of the dash in order to add an additional layer of safety, and a faster response time for clutch banishes that can be very important in saving an ally or stopping an enemy.

 

[SwankDank25]

It would be a good idea to encourage Limbos to buff and heal their teammates instead of just themselves, but I still don't think it would justify using the augment. Healing isn't something that is super hard to do since literally all melee weapons can do it, and even some secondary and primaries can. The reason why Winds of Purity is such a good augment is that it's super consistent and fast. Limbo would have to hop out of the rift, target an ally, and hop back in to prevent further damage. At that point, you probably took more damage that you would've by just camping in the rift waiting for Medi-Ray to activate, or just letting rift's energy regen fuel your Quick Thinking.

Edited May 4, 2017 by SwankDank25

[JalakBali]

Honestly, I find banishing teammates is so useless and it's even worse now that Banish is an AoE. It's even redundant now that Limbo creates an actual doorway for teammates to enter at their leisure. Just remove Banish from affecting teammates (but still works on NPC allies) and instead make the duration also works on the doorway from entering the rift. This way teammates could choose if they wanted to enter the rift.

 

So Haven should be reworked into something else. Maybe a health regen while in the rift.

[Viscerataunt]

Would ignoring every limbo player be going too far? Being trolled by limbo's stasis many times is making me weary of all limbo players.

[devildevil21]

32 minutes ago, Viscerataunt said:

Would ignoring every limbo player be going too far? Being trolled by limbo's stasis many times is making me weary of all limbo players.

It's okay if you want to avoid limbo players who abuse stasis to troll allies.

 

But please, don't be one of those guys who leaves cause I've rift surged an entire room to give you all breathing room.

Had someone leave because "I can't attack those enemies!" While he had other rooms with tons of enemies ready to murder him. It was a sortie survival mission lvl 80-100 with eximus units (grineer).

[Diezen]

If you really hate Limbo players just use pox, it breaks stasis completely and makes it so it can't be recasted until clouds are gone. New Cycron change also makes it so you can just tap fire two times and it breaks stasis, which is a bit too much. Used to be able to make some cool patterns in stasis with the lasers, but now it breaks too soon just like with certain weapons.

Also there's a bit of inconsistancy with beam weapons and breaking stasis. Nukor breaks it in two, Atomos seven, and Artax doesn't seem to break it. Though it would be terrible if it did since sentinels will just spam laser at enemies in the rift prematurely breaking stasis.

Edited May 5, 2017 by Diezen

[Viscerataunt]

9 hours ago, devildevil21 said:

It's okay if you want to avoid limbo players who abuse stasis to troll allies.

 

But please, don't be one of those guys who leaves cause I've rift surged an entire room to give you all breathing room.

Had someone leave because "I can't attack those enemies!" While he had other rooms with tons of enemies ready to murder him. It was a sortie survival mission lvl 80-100 with eximus units (grineer).

When its used tactfully in survival, mobile defense or interception its actually quite useful. That's about the only good thing I will say about it though. When people are leveling weapons and trying to get headshots, rifle/pistol kills, it just gets annoying. Shoulda named him buzzkillbo or Limbuzzkill, would have fit better.

[Prophet]

4 minutes ago, Viscerataunt said:

When its used tactfully in survival, mobile defense or interception its actually quite useful. That's about the only good thing I will say about it though. When people are leveling weapons and trying to get headshots, rifle/pistol kills, it just gets annoying. Shoulda named him buzzkillbo or Limbuzzkill, would have fit better.

If Limbo is being this much of an issue you can always play solo. If its an endless you should have no problem getting the challenges finished.

[--Q--uixotic]

Using a high range Cataclysm on Corpus maps is painful right now - nullifiers pop it instantly.

[(PSN)psycofang]

Lower or use a negative range build for rift torrent.