[Update 20] Limbo Revisited Feedback Megathread

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

I totally agree with Dethlok--this rework is definitely "start over" territory-- but it doesn't seem like much, if anything, will be changed about limbo ever again. DE doesn't seem like the type to revisit their revisits. 

Edited April 14, 2017 by (XB1)CannyJack

[DEATHLOK]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Seabastion25 said:

If they do that ooooooooooh the backlash from the new limbo players who picked him up and the mains who relearned him. Whats that noise? Is that a angry mob and pitch forks? Being serious after the good amount of time they put into the rework I doubt they would revert it. I mean all that time.........flush down the drain.

Well, I quit any squad with a Limbo in it. I won't get trolled by one again. I'm not the only one doing this.

DE can man up and fix their mistake properly.

[nameomnz]

The problem with limbo is with his teammates and co-op play in general

I don't care if limbo got his 4 nerfed, I just want limbo to be better at team play, by rework his stasis.

 

[Nez-Kal]

Getting straight to the point, Limbo's Cataclysm (And hopefully that's All) is gonna get the Rework, or "Nerf" as some might say, which was confirmed at the Devstream Yesterday.

Now....Here's what I ask you:

"What's the Worse that could Happen?"

 

What is THE WORSE changes DE could possibly make. This post is a Part Dread, Part Joke, and Part "Prepare for the Worse, Limbo Lovers, but let's Hope for the Best"

What ways could DE really Mag Limbo's Cataclysm up. After all, if it's a Nuke, it's gonna Get Nuked. X'D

 

 

(Ideas are primarily for his Cataclysm, but if you can think of a way they might try to Synergize it with one or more of his other Powers, and rework those too, then go ahead and include.)

[X3Evanescence]

The worst thing that could happen is to leave Limbo as he is right now.

Besides that, I am hoping that there will be some changes to it so that teammates in the same mission will not ragequit, as I had several PUGs with Limbos hindering the team with their bubble spam, preventing players from putting the datamass into terminals in MD, stopping teammates in mid-hack and causing Rescue and Spy sorties from failing, etc etc. 

I like the idea of scaling damage, and I would like the scaling damage to stay. However, the spamming needs to be toned down, by adjusting Cataclysm to deal its collapse damage only on a natural collapse (Once the duration runs out), and requiring Cataclysm to be active for at least 10 seconds before dealing the full 10% of scaling damage, with some kind of charging mechanic. This will prevent Limbo from spamming 4 to wipe the map while drinking coffee with his free hand.

Alternatively, the charging mechanic can be replaced by making Cataclysm's radius scale with Power Duration rather than Power Range (Like Nova's Molecular Prime), with it expanding rather than contracting, and make it deal its full scaling damage only on a natural collapse, as usual. Of course, the energy refund definitely needs to go.

Edited April 14, 2017 by X3Evanescence

[ShardYT]

iam worried , for now i use limbo as my maim frame.

i would say remove or reduce the energy refund .. 10 to 4

reduce scaling to 5% from 10%

 

[Nez-Kal]

1 minute ago, X3Evanescence said:

The worst thing that could happen is to leave Limbo as he is right now.

As much as I love his Nuke, it is Toxic as all hell. I'm sure their idea was "I'm quite certain nobody will ever exploit this and over use it in Public Servers. Yes yes. *Sips Teas*"

Boy did we prove them wrong.

[Airwolfen]

They almost remove his ult damage completely. Just that. Not that bad imo.

[GTX49]

The worst thing that could possibly happen? 

Well.. Removing Limbo from Warframe :O

[Freeman97]

A brief comment on Stasis before my main suggestion: Stasis is an excellent CC and gives Limbo long-term viability, but I'd suggest an augment that allows projectiles to pass through to avoid Limbo being hated by his entire squad. In lieu of that, I can't say I support a rework; Limbo was always supposed to be a CC king and now he is. Cataclysm, on the other hand...

You guys already know this, but Limbo's potential as a nuke-frame is unacceptable right now. According to the devstream a rework of this ability is already underway, so I'd like to make a suggestion in regards to Cataclysm's mechanics.

Scaling damage is something Warframe has needed for a long time. Octavia, Nidus and Limbo - the 3 most recent frame updates - have all had a major focus on scaling damage output, and most of the community will agree that it needs to be kept that way.

With that in mind, I'd suggest a cooldown-type mechanic. Here's an example:

Cataclysm becomes more unstable the longer it exists. As Cataclysm becomes more unstable, it deals a higher percentage of scaling damage (using the current formula, roughly 1% scaling per second) until it reaches a maximum of 10% (its current value) after 10(?) seconds (or more).

This solution would keep the scaling damage and prevent spam-Limbo. Spamming cataclysm is a strategy that almost nobody appreciates, but when Limbo is played properly (CC-focussed with long cataclysms) he should keep a high scaling damage potential. Realistically, imploding a section of the material plane into the rift or vice versa should deal a hell of a lot of damage.

Edited April 14, 2017 by Freeman97
reformatted for clarity

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

9 minutes ago, Freeman97 said:

You guys already know this, but Limbo's potential as a nuke-frame is unacceptable right now. According to the devstream a rework of this ability is already underway, so I'd like to make a suggestion in regards to Cataclysm's mechanics. Stasis is an excellent CC and gives Limbo long-term viability, but I'd suggest an augment that allows projectiles to pass through to avoid Limbo being hated by his entire squad.

Scaling damage is something Warframe has needed for a long time. Octavia, Nidus and Limbo - the 3 most recent frame updates - have all had a major focus on scaling damage output, and most of the community will agree that it needs to be kept that way.

With that in mind, I'd suggest a cooldown-type mechanic. Here's an example:

Cataclysm becomes more unstable the longer it exists. As Cataclysm becomes more unstable, it deals a higher percentage of scaling damage (using the current formula, roughly 1% scaling per second) until it reaches a maximum of 10% (its current value) after 10(?) seconds (or more).

This solution would keep the scaling damage and prevent spam-Limbo. Spamming cataclysm is a strategy that almost nobody appreciates, but when Limbo is played properly (CC-focussed with long cataclysms) he should keep a high scaling damage potential. Realistically, imploding a section of the material plane into the rift or vice versa should deal a hell of a lot of damage.

Another suggestion that I've been reading about is something as simple as Damage over Time. If enemies are inside the Cataclysm bubble, they get damaged continuously by rift energy (preferably radiation). No more damage on collapse. Even if it was around World on Fire damage, it'd still be super good. Considering how big Cataclysm can get and its duration based instead of channeling. It would also have synergy with the augment mod Cataclysmic Continuum as there's an actual reason to keep the bubble up as long as possible and only collapse it if you need to move the bubble.

[Uzpian]

There's still Stasis so...

[Freeman97]

28 minutes ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

Another suggestion that I've been reading about is something as simple as Damage over Time. If enemies are inside the Cataclysm bubble, they get damaged continuously by rift energy (preferably radiation). No more damage on collapse. Even if it was around World on Fire damage, it'd still be super good. Considering how big Cataclysm can get and its duration based instead of channeling. It would also have synergy with the augment mod Cataclysmic Continuum as there's an actual reason to keep the bubble up as long as possible and only collapse it if you need to move the bubble.

Damage over time is a valid suggestion for sure. There are a few points I have issues with, though:

1) Cataclysm's description on ability pages in-game as well as on other official material describes the whole process of opening and imploding the cataclysm as extremely violent, using words like "collapse" and "tear". With this in mind, it would be a lore discrepancy to have Cataclysm do nothing on collapse. It needs to do something, although maybe not nuke everything inside instantly.

2) Your suggestion doesn't account for scaling damage. This is the direction the developers are moving in according to an overview of the 3 most recently updated frames. Nidus, Octavia and Limbo are all focussed on scaling. It's highly unlikely that the developers will remove his scaling altogether, so that needs to be considered in a damage-over-time effect.

3) I can't personally vibe with the idea of rupturing an existential plane dealing the same sort of damage as just setting an enemy on fire, but that's a personal issue and doesn't stand as a real criticism.

Your thoughts?

[Genoscythe]

I think it would be reasonable to tie the damage scaling with power strength, like this one would have to decide between getting all enemies on the map into a cataclysm or having a small cataclysm that has to be well placed to kill something.

 

Actually I find the ability right now balanced, you can't kill heavy gunners, nullifers or ancient disruptors anyway. All faction have something to counter this ability. The most Op thing might be stasis + a max range cataclysm, but honestly this game needs scaling damage.

[-N7-Leonhart]

1 hour ago, Tangent-Valley said:

-snip-

The true Limbo lovers never cared about Catacylsm in the first place. The Limbo 'lovers' you have in mind however, are just the usual cast of meta users that go by the rule 'use it just because it's the new meta'. Once Limbo is done with, they will just ride the next train.

[Nez-Kal]

19 minutes ago, -N7-Leonhart said:

The true Limbo lovers never cared about Catacylsm in the first place. The Limbo 'lovers' you have in mind however, are just the usual cast of meta users that go by the rule 'use it just because it's the new meta'. Once Limbo is done with, they will just ride the next train.

Eh. I've loved Limbo's design since I first saw the GentleSir, but always wanted him to be just a little...more. Since Rework I've completely fallen for him all over again, but after the Nuke fest, well, I can't help but look off at poor Mag, and fear what "Fix" might be coming for my favorite Frame.

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

50 minutes ago, Freeman97 said:

Damage over time is a valid suggestion for sure. There are a few points I have issues with, though:

1) Cataclysm's description on ability pages in-game as well as on other official material describes the whole process of opening and imploding the cataclysm as extremely violent, using words like "collapse" and "tear". With this in mind, it would be a lore discrepancy to have Cataclysm do nothing on collapse. It needs to do something, although maybe not nuke everything inside instantly.

2) Your suggestion doesn't account for scaling damage. This is the direction the developers are moving in according to an overview of the 3 most recently updated frames. Nidus, Octavia and Limbo are all focussed on scaling. It's highly unlikely that the developers will remove his scaling altogether, so that needs to be considered in a damage-over-time effect.

3) I can't personally vibe with the idea of rupturing an existential plane dealing the same sort of damage as just setting an enemy on fire, but that's a personal issue and doesn't stand as a real criticism.

Your thoughts?

I only compared it to WoF because for me, that's good enough. If it was scaling damage, I wouldn't mind either. I also read a suggestion that Cataclysm collapse could cause massive rag dolling. Imagine when Cataclysm collapses and every enemy inside its massive bubble rag dolled like they were hit by a Sonicor shot built for Blast damage. It wouldn't deal any more than the 300 impact rift transition damage but sending everything into orbit like that would look hilarious.

[FriarTuck]

Comba can turn off Limbo's passive Rift walk when he is in the Rift plane. 10/10, fair and balanced.

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

Just replace the scaling damage of Cataclysm with the ability to hack consoles, stand on plates and break objects while inside Cataclysm. Its no nuke but from a Limbo player's perspective, its more OP than a nuke.

[Hixlysss]

I hope all they do is make his ultimate affected by power strength. That's where my issues with him are. The fact I can throw on overextended on him with 0 downsides is...remarkable. Okay, sure, his 500 damage he does gets reduced, how ever the "Does damage based on HP of enemies inside cataclysm" is not affected by power str, if they just change that it will be good.

Also if they could give Oberon similar traits I'd be so happy.

[Rioma]

In all my time playing this game next to old Ash bladestorm I've never wanted a frame to not be in my party as much as I do new limbo. He can banish me on purpose or accidentally, which isn't really a big deal but still annoying. His new fun innovative 2 stops me from playing the game inside a certain part of the map. And his 4 depending on energy color can just make my eyes not want to be eyes anymore. 

10/10 would banish limbo to solo play. 

[Newnight]

Line of sight and or shrinking the scale down way too much to be useful. That or making it like before (a discount and bad frost bubble), might be worse though.

[Azamagon]

I think the best thing that could happen is: Damage of Cataclysm scale the same way as now, but it only counts enemies that have been killed while it was in Cataclysm. Pretty much making it similar to Equinox's Maim.

[Newnight]

8 minutes ago, Azamagon said:

I think the best thing that could happen is: Damage of Cataclysm scale the same way as now, but it only counts enemies that have been killed while it was in Cataclysm. Pretty much making it similar to Equinox's Maim.

Then what use would poor equ have ( im jking). That could work but could the cata changes also come with something else?

[Azamagon]

1 minute ago, Newnight said:

Then what use would poor equ have ( im jking). That could work but could the cata changes also come with something else?

Yeah, loads of stuff:
* Allies (or Limbo) in Cataclysm can hack/interact with consoles and such, and if they are hacking/interracting and Cataclysm is summoned/removed from them, they are not interrupted anymore.
* Stasis no longer has a projectile-pausing effect (as cool as that is, I think it is too disruptive). Instead, Limbo gets an energydrain, its rate depending on how many enemies he catches in Stasis (Gives him a reason for his kill-energy-passive).
* Rift Surge becomes old Rift Surge again (aka a weaponbuff for self), but also causes a radial debuff on enemies. Enemies killed while debuffed explode for X damage, which deals damage across rift/reality freely. Ability is recastable.
* Banish is single target on tap-cast, and AoE on holdcast. Single target can be used across planes freely, Holdcast remains as it currently is (or reversed in direction?).