The lack of universal vacuum is killing variety.

[TykitheFreak]

Allow me to sum up my experience with both kubrows and kavats: I did the quest, carrier following me behind with vaccum dilligently, plugging in the kubrow segement shortly before waiting the short period so I could hatch my first doggo, slightly amused at the fact that they came from eggs. The process of leveling it was surprisingly swift considering the existence of draco back then, and a quick return to my ship later the first mod I search up is vacuum, it does not appear. My next action is to consign the kubrow and re-equip carrier.

 

Upon the discovery of kavats, creatures based upon my favorite pets, I hold back from crafting and/or collecting the segments, having become jaded from my previous attempt at finding a much more fleshy, friendly buddy than a sentinel, i type into region chat "can i put vacuum on kavats?" which is ignored in favor of S#&$posting for a good ten minutes before i'm pmed a swift, curt "no". I've yet to make a kavat and have only crafted the segment hoping that they add universal vacuum.

These two experiences were caused by vacuum being a sentinel only mod, the existence of the mod is by no means a bad thing, in fact it should be a thing inherent to warframes, a small section of the options menu where you can simply hit a switch and turn it on or off depending on your preferences. I WANT badly to have a reason to use kavats and their S#&$tier counterpart, kubrows. Many will reply "well kavats and kubrows can kill things" yes, up to a certain point, however you have three weapon slots that are INFINITELY more suited to housing things designed entirely to kill things. "but kitty/puppers" is often another response others give me, if you want to put up with less loot interaction and even sometimes completely losing out on loot due to not having a sentinel with vacuum, then that's on you, however, MOST PEOPLE do not. DE, i'm sure you can and actually probably have very easilly gather stats on this sort of thing, seen the sheer amount of people that use sentinels over kavats/kubrows just simply because they like having loot in a loot-based game. I know you don't like to acknowlege this fact, i know you wish you'd never brought vacuum into existence because it has unbalanced so heavilly the companions people run with, but you have to lie in it now. I'd personally love for it to be universal as an option in the options menu, so i can actually have a reason to use kitties. As things are, kavats/kubrows are "does this species-oriented thing" while sentinels are "does this model-oriented thing, also it has this thing called vacuum" there is quite literally no way they can compete with that on a rational level.

 

Also while i have you, have someone play nioh and apply the weapon re-rolling system to rivens. Have pablo do it or something, he's always making everyone's lives better.

Edited April 19, 2017 by TykitheFreak

[artemisfortune]

Universal Vacuum on sentinels shouldn't have even been added.

[VinDanger]

4 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

Universal Vacuum on sentinels shouldn't have even been added.

why?

[artemisfortune]

2 minutes ago, VinDanger said:

why?

promotes laziness, makes it a mandatory mod, encourages people to AFK with easy macros to make them move.

honestly, shoulda just increased the warframe pickup range slightly and removed vacuum entirely, allowing carrier to keep his new ability.

[Pavelord]

for me it was backward, toss the sentinels back into the closet and went back to kubrows, spending some extra seconds to grab loot just piled up over the years, now is very rare that i have to farm materials. Still I know they can be convenient but being unable to play a day or a week without vacuum seems a bit exagerated.

[TykitheFreak]

1 minute ago, Pavelord said:

for me it was backward, toss the sentinels back into the closet and went back to kubrows, spending some extra seconds to grab loot just piled up over the years, now is very rare that i have to farm materials. Still I know they can be convenient but being unable to play a day or a week without vacuum seems a bit exagerated.

 

10 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

promotes laziness, makes it a mandatory mod, encourages people to AFK with easy macros to make them move.

honestly, shoulda just increased the warframe pickup range slightly and removed vacuum entirely, allowing carrier to keep his new ability.

Numbers don't lie. I can pretty much garuntee a majority of players use sentinels just for quality of life, also increasing pick-up range is what vacuum does. It's what i was asking for in my post (or at least attempting to)

[artemisfortune]

2 minutes ago, TykitheFreak said:

 

Numbers don't lie. I can pretty much garuntee a majority of players use sentinels just for quality of life, also increasing pick-up range is what vacuum does. It's what i was asking for in my post (or at least attempting to)

I would have made it slight. 8m at most. it's currently 6m. I see at least 1 AFK on akkad nearly every match. QoL is fine, afk farming is not.

[TykitheFreak]

Just now, JSharpie said:

I would have made it slight. 8m at most. it's currently 6m. I see at least 1 AFK on akkad nearly every match. QoL is fine, afk farming is not.

great, so we're on the same page that vacuum could be entirely removed from the game if they instead increased pick-up range to say 8-12m. ergo, making vacuum universal. Also, to be fair, if everyone's killing people on akkad and don't need help then why shouldn't they afk a bit? it's not like you need them and it's better for them if everyone else kills things due to how affinity works.

[taiiat]

homogenization.... is a lack of variety. one of the foremost sources of 'killing variety'.

the Mod doesn't provide some very important or necessary foundational functionality for the thing it is Equipped on or anything connected to it to function, so being ubiquitous doesn't really make sense.

 

sure... in the usual AFKFarming 'Playstyle' that is the most popular, the Utility that Companions provide are all bunk - but that does not make the competing features not compete with each other.

3 minutes ago, TykitheFreak said:

it's better for them if everyone else kills things due to how affinity works.

Affinity is not that black and white, sorry.
under certain particular circumstances that can be true but that isn't true for anyone that is Leveling a thing.

Edited April 14, 2017 by taiiat

[artemisfortune]

15 minutes ago, TykitheFreak said:

great, so we're on the same page that vacuum could be entirely removed from the game if they instead increased pick-up range to say 8-12m. ergo, making vacuum universal. Also, to be fair, if everyone's killing people on akkad and don't need help then why shouldn't they afk a bit? it's not like you need them and it's better for them if everyone else kills things due to how affinity works.

it's 11.5 meters now. 8m is already pushing it. 12m is overkill. 7m would have been nice. They shouldn't AFK because they're leeching off other people's work. I can see now why you want it though. You don't want to play the game. You just want all the rewards.

Edit: So "to be fair" it isn't fair for other people that people can just sit there and watch netflix while others have to actually play the game. Leechers are the worst kind of players because when they finally get to higher level content, they suck at the game. Go play a pug spy sortie and tell me that the leeching isn't an issue.

Edited April 14, 2017 by JSharpie

[TykitheFreak]

1 minute ago, JSharpie said:

it's 11.5 meters now. 8m is already pushing it. 12m is overkill. 7m would have been nice. They shouldn't AFK because they're leeching off other people's work. I can see now why you want it though. You don't want to play the game. You just want all the rewards.

Edit: So "to be fair" it isn't fair for other people that people can just sit there and watch netflix while others have to actually play the game. Leechers are the worst kind of players because when they finally get to higher level content, they suck at the game. Go play a pug spy sortie and tell me that the leeching isn't an issue.

I'm often time's the one carrying three lokis somehow managing to F*** up spies with an inaros through sorties spies, it's not that bad. Also, the reason we play warframe are the rewards. Frankly, this game's not hard and in the places it IS difficult, it's not the sort of healthy difficulty you get form things like dark souls. It's just bullet-sponges, bullS#&$ resistances and/or immunities paired up with one-shot level damage. The reason i want the increased pick up range is so i can just run down a hallway, focus on killing things and going really fast, which is what makes the game fun, not picking up every little loot drop while getting shot at. Claiming that "adds difficulty" or "adds depth" is simply false, what it does add is annoyance.

[artemisfortune]

Just now, TykitheFreak said:

I'm often time's the one carrying three lokis somehow managing to F*** up spies with an inaros through sorties spies, it's not that bad. Also, the reason we play warframe are the rewards. Frankly, this game's not hard and in the places it IS difficult, it's not the sort of healthy difficulty you get form things like dark souls. It's just bullet-sponges, bullS#&$ resistances and/or immunities paired up with one-shot level damage. The reason i want the increased pick up range is so i can just run down a hallway, focus on killing things and going really fast, which is what makes the game fun, not picking up every little loot drop while getting shot at. Claiming that "adds difficulty" or "adds depth" is simply false, what it does add is annoyance.

Change your perspective. Why do you need every little bit of loot? If you want every bit of loot then put on vacuum.

I don't use vacuum and I still have plenty of mats. I don't have an insane amount of mats, but I have enough. I focus on playing, not getting everything as fast as I can.

I didn't claim it adds anything except laziness. Also, Dark Souls isn't a hard game. It's a pattern game. I'm a souls-player before I'm a warframe player, and trust me. I died more times trying to kill Thaym without cheese than I did killing the Lord of Cinder or Gwyn.

[TykitheFreak]

Just now, JSharpie said:

Change your perspective. Why do you need every little bit of loot? If you want every bit of loot then put on vacuum.

I don't use vacuum and I still have plenty of mats. I don't have an insane amount of mats, but I have enough. I focus on playing, not getting everything as fast as I can.

I didn't claim it adds anything except laziness. Also, Dark Souls isn't a hard game. It's a pattern game. I'm a souls-player before I'm a warframe player, and trust me. I died more times trying to kill Thaym without cheese than I did killing the Lord of Cinder or Gwyn.

Because this is a loot based game. Everything revolves around loot of some sort, and i'd like to actually have a reason to use other things besides sentinels, however, the abyssmal pick-up range on warframes mixed with how terrible kavats and kubrows are when vacuum is brought into the equation, keeps not only me but the majority of players using sentinels. also kela is a rather easy boss fight, HOWEVER if i'd fought gwyn over 2k times, i'd probably find him a breeze as well. I have very S#&$ty luck when it comes to saryn systems

[artemisfortune]

Just now, TykitheFreak said:

Because this is a loot based game. Everything revolves around loot of some sort, and i'd like to actually have a reason to use other things besides sentinels, however, the abyssmal pick-up range on warframes mixed with how terrible kavats and kubrows are when vacuum is brought into the equation, keeps not only me but the majority of players using sentinels. also kela is a rather easy boss fight, HOWEVER if i'd fought gwyn over 2k times, i'd probably find him a breeze as well. I have very S#&$ty luck when it comes to saryn systems

So she isn't easy if it took you 2000 times.

This isn't a loot-based game. If it is, then every RPG is a loot-based game. This is a hoard shooter, not a cookie clicker. vacuum doesn't even double the pickup range. If you feel like you're forced into using a sentinel, that's because you can't live with having to spend 4 seconds picking up loot and that's a bad reason for wanting a 12m universal vacuum.

[TykitheFreak]

3 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

So she isn't easy if it took you 2000 times.

This isn't a loot-based game. If it is, then every RPG is a loot-based game. This is a hoard shooter, not a cookie clicker. vacuum doesn't even double the pickup range. If you feel like you're forced into using a sentinel, that's because you can't live with having to spend 4 seconds picking up loot and that's a bad reason for wanting a 12m universal vacuum.

it took me killing her damn near 3k times to get the first systems to drop, also, you clearly are playing a different game or at least talking about a different one than what this forum is about.

[artemisfortune]

5 minutes ago, TykitheFreak said:

it took me killing her damn near 3k times to get the first systems to drop, also, you clearly are playing a different game or at least talking about a different one than what this forum is about.

ah, I miss understood. Did you cheese her? She's dog easy if you cheese her as if everything in this game.

[TykitheFreak]

Just now, JSharpie said:

ah, I miss understood. Did you cheese her? She's dog easy if you cheese her as if everything in this game.

depends on what you define as cheese... i just brought her along on mesa's bizarre adventure with aklex prime

[Fallen_Echo]

53 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

I would have made it slight. 8m at most. it's currently 6m. I see at least 1 AFK on akkad nearly every match. QoL is fine, afk farming is not.

When did anybody have gone to afk akkad for mats really?

They farm afk affinity,focus and creds but not mats.

Promotes laziness, HA!

You know what promotes laziness? The fact that most enemies are soo weak i can sit down on the def target and let my kubrow/sentinel handle them.

Its a mandatory mod for a reason, it brings a huge quality of life change in a game where grinding is a must.

[[DE]Momaw]

"The lack of universal vacuum is killing variety."

So you want to improve variety by making everything the same?

 

To me the way forward isn't to give every player an inherent ability to suck up all loot without even noticing it.  If the core purpose of the game is to loot everything, as you claim, why would they want to make core functionality automatic? If you can't be bothered to notice loot then why should you get loot.

The real problem is whatever causes players to think that they need this. And that problem is the enormous quantity of loot that drops. You play a mission and there's tiny amounts of material, tiny amounts of ammo, scattered all over the place. It's too much for the player during active combat to look at a sea of loot and pick out an optimal route to all the polymer bundles or all the shotgun ammo, or whatever it is they want.  There's so many drops, and they are so randomly scattered, and each individual drop is worth so little, that the player's response is wanting to....well, vacuum this stuff up.

So honestly my suggestion to DE isn't to make vacuum work for every warframe natively, it's to turn down the loot drops while increasing the quantity of each drop. If there was 1/5th as many drops but they were worth 5 times as much, for example, it's a lot easier to see and identify and navigate to the things that you want.

[Mousarchy]

A group of people that think vacume is a stupid mod? i found my home. ya i only use vacume on frames that rely on quick energy pick ups (ash 4 build,anybody with a MASSIVE ammo eater. nekros) but if im not using diruga on a sniper,carrier on an ammo hog or djinn on nekros. im using my Kavat for that gorgeous 60% flat crit. (now if only kubrows were better...makes me wanna repost my "kubrow training" post

[Potato]

17 hours ago, JSharpie said:

promotes laziness, makes it a mandatory mod, encourages people to AFK with easy macros to make them move.

honestly, shoulda just increased the warframe pickup range slightly and removed vacuum entirely, allowing carrier to keep his new ability.

So let me get this straight, just because YOU choose to not use vacuum, you believe that others shouldn't have the right to do so either?

[Voltage]

19 hours ago, JSharpie said:

I would have made it slight. 8m at most. it's currently 6m. I see at least 1 AFK on akkad nearly every match. QoL is fine, afk farming is not.

That's because you are on akkad. That's like claiming back in Draco that there is always a leech. 

Also, how is vacuum "lazy" when the amount of drops and the range of frames is so abysmal. If Warframes had 10m range then I could get behind removing vacuum.

[Xzorn]

Players talking about lazy players and using Akkad as an example. Oi.

I do 2 hour+ non-stealth endurance runs solo and I live by my Vacuum. Am I lazy for being unable to spare the time to pick up ammo, energy and other items that I've rightfully earned while I fight a lvl 350 Bombard or are other players lazy for not pushing themselves to the point when a mere second is the difference from life and death.

Vacuum should have been a universal passive to all frames a long time ago. Instead they just made another staple mod to take up space.

[JalakBali]

How about removing Vacuum entirely and then make you pick up every loot, including ammo, manually from the ground by pressing X right on top of it?

What, don't like this? ARE YOU LAZY?

[Death_Master_]

On 14.04.2017 at 8:19 AM, JSharpie said:

promotes laziness, makes it a mandatory mod, encourages people to AFK with easy macros to make them move.

honestly, shoulda just increased the warframe pickup range slightly and removed vacuum entirely, allowing carrier to keep his new ability.

How many people on macro did you see? In over 2000 hours of playtime(mostly with random people) i didn't notice any.

For me vacuum is much useful on survival and defense missions(to run out of camping spot for a moment and collect all loot you did beat out of mobs before new wave of lv100+ mobs attacks you). It was very useful for my solo farming for Hema research(when on ODS you need to survive first and don't have much time looking at all loot around to find those 10-40 mutagen samples in 40 min or hour run).

5 hours ago, Xzorn said:

Vacuum should have been a universal passive to all frames a long time ago. Instead they just made another staple mod to take up space.

Yep! Totally agree!