Remove dealths and k/d from conclave statistics. Don't make bad players feel bad about themselves.

[--Blame--]

12 minutes ago, Klavinmour said:

Don't tell me you quit Dark Souls because it was too hard.

Kid, my concern in commenting here is on giving ideas for people to be encouraged to play Conclave.
As you yourself have already said, Warframe is a PvE aimed at a community game style. It's no use wanting to have a competitive landscape in Warframe if I can not use the conclave as a recreational tool to pass the time. If you want to create a competitive landscape, you need a leaderboard, and we barely have that in a decent way for PvE...

The only place where the Conclave is easy to find match is in the NA (and maybe europe, but i never tested cuz ping), so maybe that's why you're so blind with this "get gut" chatter, "this is competitive if you do not like it, do not play"

HOW DO I PLAY, IF YOU HAVE NO ONE TO PLAY, GENIUS?

 

 

Edited April 16, 2017 by --Blame--

[-InV-igo95862]

52 minutes ago, Bwandi said:

And if your KD was so high, I don't even see as to why you'd even suggest this. "Oh hey, look at me, I have an above average KD" Gonna brag that you're platinum now?

Because you thought I am bad in conclave but unlike you I actually play it. Its way more high skill and competitive then Overwatch or LoL. K/D has nothing to do with competitiveness or skill level. If you take two top tier players and match them against each other their K/D will be around 1:1.

Edited April 16, 2017 by -InV-igo95862

[Klavinmour]

3 minutes ago, --Blame-- said:

Kid, my concern in commenting here is on giving ideas for people to be encouraged to play Conclave.
As you yourself have already said, Warframe is a PvE aimed at a community game style. It's no use wanting to have a competitive landscape in Warframe if I can not use the conclave as a recreational tool to pass the time.

The only place where the Conclave is easy to find match is in the NA (and maybe europe, but i never tested cuz ping), so maybe that's why you're so blind with this "get gut" chatter, "this is competitive if you do not like it, do not play"

HOW DO I PLAY, IF YOU HAVE NO ONE TO PLAY, GENIUS?

 

 

I don't play PvP because there is no PvP players in the Oceanic region, probably because they got all the rewards out of it worth getting.
 

Which is your point right there, there is already rewards, one's K/D/A is not going to keep people away from a game mode.
Hiding the K/D/A wont bring people back to something they have no interest in.

Unfortunately something happened a few years ago of a similar nature, except instead of a game mode ending up in the S#&$ter it was an entire game.
Super Monday Night Combat had a cross over promotion with Team Fortress 2.
Once the TF2 old hats got their hats they left SMNC behind, and it's playerbase dropped before it could even get off the ground.
Which is quite sad since the game was absolutely fun and a breath of fresh air for MOBAs being a third person shooter take on the genre before Smite even started development.

 

You're not hitting the mark anywhere close with what you think Conclave's problems are, and there's no point arguing because you refuse to see reason.

[--Blame--]

11 minutes ago, Klavinmour said:

I don't play PvP because there is no PvP players in the Oceanic region, probably because they got all the rewards out of it worth getting.

SA, nice to meet you.

 

11 minutes ago, Klavinmour said:

Which is your point right there, there is already rewards,

yeah, like a syandanna, a breast coat and some skins for weapons.... wow....
But the kind of reward I'm referring to is not this. Warframe for a lot of people is a game without beginning and end, so what's the reason to play? Some collect warframes, some for friendship, and somes for pure lore. That kind of reward I mean

 

11 minutes ago, Klavinmour said:

You're not hitting the mark anywhere close with what you think Conclave's problems are, and there's no point arguing because you refuse to see reason.

I think no one here believes that just taking the K / D will make everyone play conclave. There is a lot of work to be done. But everyone here who accompanies the Warframe knows that it evolves little by little. Anything that helps a game mode that is not well visited I believe is welcome

Edited April 16, 2017 by --Blame--

[hinamakura]

2 minutes ago, -InV-igo95862 said:

Because you though I am bad in conclave but unlike you I actually play it. Its way more high skill and competitive then Overwatch or LoL. K/D has nothing to do with competitiveness or skill level. If you take two top tier players and match them against each other their K/D will be around 1:1.

No it wouldn't. Lets take 2 amazing players, both from Overwatch. For this, I'm using EnVyUs's Taimou, and Former NRG captain Seagull. 

         Both are amazingly skilled. Both are great game sense wise. But keep this in mind, both are better than the other, in their respective categories. Their KDs aren't what matters. It wouldn't compare, whatsoever, because Taimou is better mechanically. He will repeatedly shutdown Seagull, although Seagull has the better game sense and knowledge. Taimou's KD would be significantly larger than Seagull's, due to Taimou being 1. A better DPS, and Mechanically. 2. Knowing enough not to fall into Seagull's traps. As for high skill? Literally you can spawn in and get spawn camped. Very high skill indeed. As for competitive? Overwatch became a huge esport within the span of a few months. League is probably the most watched esport of all time, and still up top. Hell, even DOTA is more competitive than Conclave. At least in either 3 games, you dont spawn in, only to get blasted by an Ember with an Akstilleto Prime only to spawn in again, and this time Rhino blasted you with Sancti Tigris. Hell, even S4 League is more competitive, even WITH no esports, and with all the hackers.

And yes, I have played Conclave. But as you can tell, I quit playing it because, as I've said before, it was clunky for me. I played warframe because it was fast paced. Conclave isn't that. It's clunky. It takes too long to progress in, it even feels like it takes forever, and with no progress. I had no motivation to play it, even for those sexy Riv Elite stuff, but that can be easily bought with plat I earn from trading. And even then, Conclave has nothing to keep it in check. It's just there. No balances, buffs, nerfs, changes, content, nothing. It could be so much more, and it could have so much potential as a one-of-a-kind PvP game.

 

All in all, don't play conclave if you can't take a loss. Easy as that. Don't play PvP in general. No one ever wins every game.

[Acos]

you can't get gud if you aren't bad

[Sakatchi]

1 hour ago, TARINunit9 said:

Overwatch removes those stats because it's a TEAM-BASED competitive game. Removing K/D isn't about "hurt feelings" like people who whine about "the cancer of safe spaces" like to themselves whine about, it's about discouraging stupid lone wolves from lone wolfing at stupid times

It's like when TF2 removed global leaderboards in favor of tracking "your personal bests" instead

That arguments bad and you know it. You will always have one genji, windowlicker, reaper, or hanzo trying to solo the entire goddamn opposing side because he saw seagull do it.

But back on the topic here, no I ment like, you're already straight up murdering them, it feels kind of pointless and a wasted effort to try to hide the numbers of you murdering them from the murdered individual.

[-InV-igo95862]

41 minutes ago, Bwandi said:

No it wouldn't. Lets take 2 amazing players, both from Overwatch. For this, I'm using EnVyUs's Taimou, and Former NRG captain Seagull. 

         Both are amazingly skilled. Both are great game sense wise. But keep this in mind, both are better than the other, in their respective categories. Their KDs aren't what matters. It wouldn't compare, whatsoever, because Taimou is better mechanically. He will repeatedly shutdown Seagull, although Seagull has the better game sense and knowledge. Taimou's KD would be significantly larger than Seagull's, due to Taimou being 1.

Overwatch have different roles and is based around team work. (should not expect support main to win 1v1 against dps main) Conclave has more equal ground between players.

41 minutes ago, Bwandi said:

Literally you can spawn in and get spawn camped. Very high skill indeed. At least in either 3 games, you dont spawn in, only to get blasted by an Ember with an Akstilleto Prime only to spawn in again, and this time Rhino blasted you with Sancti Tigris.

Do you know spawn protection exists? You are invulnerable for some time after spawning. Unless you fire your weapon you will have plenty time to escape any shotgun.

41 minutes ago, Bwandi said:

And yes, I have played Conclave. But as you can tell, I quit playing it because, as I've said before, it was clunky for me. I played warframe because it was fast paced. Conclave isn't that. It's clunky.

You call something like this "clunky"?

 

41 minutes ago, Bwandi said:

 It takes too long to progress in, it even feels like it takes forever, and with no progress.

Try to farm Mesa without buying her with plat. Tell me about progress when her helmet drops 10th time.

41 minutes ago, Bwandi said:

 No balances, buffs, nerfs, changes, content, nothing.

Conclave get regular balance changes, in fact it get more balance changes then PvE. Check any latest patch notes.

Edited April 16, 2017 by -InV-igo95862

[Heckzu]

2 hours ago, Klavinmour said:

And K/D/A is a HUGE part of LoL,

The ratio itself isn't as important as the actual numbers of kills, deaths, and assists in the match.

Players with lower ranks in LoL tend to have higher KDAs than players at much higher ranks because objectives are prioritized over kills at higher ranks.

 

In Conclave, K/D is not a good indicator of skill, especially since assists aren't tracked.

Stats that are a good indicator of skill include:

• Accuracy rating (not including explosives since those tend to end up having 0% hit rate on the score board)
• Average damage per match

It is, however, impossible to determine one's skill based on numbers alone, since you can't measure how good someone is at utilizing parkour or how well someone tracks at high speeds.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Heckzu

[----Legacy----]

10 hours ago, Bwandi said:

Again, devs, please excuse my vulgar language. I mean no disrespect, or harm, or any ill will.

 

1. Overwatch has a S#&$tier system, with the medals. It lets spamrat mains brag about spamming down Rein shields for "gold damage" while at the same time getting picked over and over and over again by Pharah, and refusing to switch. Oh, and if you noticed right next to the button labeled "Arcade" stands the button "Competitive", and if you right click that button, there you will see the "Leaderboard" button.

                   As for that they don't publicly show your SR, or KD, it's called "View Career Profile" So, your argument is done for here

 

2. League is already toxic. Why you want to add even more toxicity. You lost an arm, let's lose another!, is basically what they'd be saying. Giving more people to rage over their game.

 

3. If you haven't noticed by now, BOTH are MAJOR esports games. With this, it only entails that they are both COMPETITIVE.

both lol and ow were designed as pvp games, warframe was designed as a pve one and pvp was added later. conclave is not an esport like any of those but it doesn't make it less competitive than any other pvp game because you are putting your own skills in a test against someone else's ones. 

seeing your posts has mademe realize why many players here use to think of pvp communities as the main source of toxicity in the game even when more experienced players are being nice in their explanations while a player with barely 140 kills is bringing toxicity. I hope you don't get to be seen as a representative conclave player, and instead of excusing for your vulgar language, you should try moderating it before posting... it's not that hard, i'm doing it myself rigt now

[Pythadragon]

Having public kills and deaths on your profile communicates useful information about a player.

1. Is a high K/D an indicator of being highly skilled? Not necessarily. But a low K/D (<1) indicates that the player is definitely doing below average and may be new to the Conclave.

2. Total kills and deaths are a rough indication of how much experience someone has had in the Conclave. A player with 80,000 kills has probably invested significantly more time than someone who only has 1,000 kills.

-----

However, kills and deaths from Recruit Conditioning are 100% meaningless once you have left RC mode due to playing an entirely different playerbase. This also encourages an especially detestable mindset where one might refuse to rank out from RC in order to maintain a high K/D ratio by farming new players.

While I hope that we eventually get a forced graduation condition from RC, in the meantime, I would like to see a big "RECRUIT CONDITIONING" tag on a player's K/D section of their profile. Once they no longer qualify for RC mode, then their record is wiped, and they start with a clean slate for regular matchmaking.

If one has a very high number of kills and a high K/D ratio under the RC tag, that would definitely communicate something about a player ;)

Edited April 16, 2017 by Pythadragon

[Vyrn]

I agree on the condition that only lifetime deaths (and K:D as a result) are removed. Leaving lifetime kills [sorry, was a typo before!] in would be preferred because that stat gives a pretty good idea of how long that player has been around.

As others have already pointed out, K:D is not the most consistent standard for measuring skill, especially since it's tracked in recruit conditioning and since it's not terribly uncommon for people to farm friends, bots, or clearly inexperienced players to boost K:D (and get standing/challenges done).

For players, particularly newcomers, with a not-so-good K:D, it can even be a severe discouragement and, sometimes, a "reminder of how bad they are." Some people get turned off to Conclave completely because of having a few bad matches (or by simply being outmatched) and watching their K:D drop down below 1:1. To paraphrase the sentiment I've seen: "It will just get worse if I keep playing." While not everyone is like that (and some are the opposite, finding it gives them something to strive for), it's still problematic.

Removing any lasting "evidence of failure," as some people see it, would help prevent players from getting overly discouraged by a bad streak and would even alleviate some of the stress some players may experience while playing, as they would no longer feel "punished" for goofing around, experimenting, or playing more casually.

All that said, I'd also push for adding in either a weekly K:D stat or the K:D of the previous X matches (maybe 10 or so) to give a somewhat more accurate form of tracking players' abilities. That way, we would have a more up-to-date idea of a player's skill, but players' stats would not be permanently marred by starting off slowly, by getting picked on by RC squatters, or by just having a bad streak. Similarly, there would be no real purpose in inflating those numbers through some unsportsmanlike means (like cheesing however they can and leaving the moment a better player joins), as said numbers would get lost in time.

Total matches played would also be pretty rad.

Edited April 17, 2017 by Vyrndragon
more typos

[TARINunit9]

17 hours ago, Sakatchi said:

That arguments bad and you know it. You will always have one genji, windowlicker, reaper, or hanzo trying to solo the entire goddamn opposing side because he saw seagull do it.

The fact that a system isn't perfect does not automatically make it bad. Discouragement is not a guarantee, but it's still better. And it makes a TON more sense than the people who whine and cry about "the SJWs trying to turn muh game into a safe space!" Newsflash: if a programmer or UI artist is taking out he K/D ratio from the scoreboard, it's for an actual mechanical reason, not because a bunch of SJWs got cross on twitter

[Sakatchi]

10 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

The fact that a system isn't perfect does not automatically make it bad. Discouragement is not a guarantee, but it's still better. And it makes a TON more sense than the people who whine and cry about "the SJWs trying to turn muh game into a safe space!" Newsflash: if a programmer or UI artist is taking out he K/D ratio from the scoreboard, it's for an actual mechanical reason, not because a bunch of SJWs got cross on twitter

Except Blizzard did straight up not include a score board for that exact reason. And they censored gg ez cause peoples oh so fragile feelings were getting hurt. The reason for this is because Blizzard wants to sell as much as possible, so they actually will care what twitter thinks about them.

But that's a different game entirely, and I'm still not really complaining about sjw shenanigans, because I actually like overwatch.

I'm still saying it's straight up stupid to try to dance around feelings in a mode where you're literally killing each other. 

[TARINunit9]

1 minute ago, Sakatchi said:

Except Blizzard did straight up not include a score board for that exact reason. And they censored gg ez cause peoples oh so fragile feelings were getting hurt. The reason for this is because Blizzard wants to sell as much as possible, so they actually will care what twitter thinks about them.

Funny you support a belief that not only has no evidence, but has evidence actively disproving it

[Sakatchi]

Just now, TARINunit9 said:

Funny you support a belief that not only has no evidence, but has evidence actively disproving it

Funny how you seem to be unable to actually show me any of this evidence. But feel free to throw some links at me.

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, Sakatchi said:

Funny how you seem to be unable to actually show me any of this evidence. But feel free to throw some links at me.

Also funny how you never did that

As for my evidence, there's this old thing. The fact that they planned a feature where you will outright get to see whether or not you're in first place pretty flatly denies it was any of this "safe space = cancer" claptrap. Removing K/D or putting it back in or whatever state the game is actually in is based on functionality. Programmers. Do not care. About what SJWs have to say on twitter.

This is like that time when a Batgirl comic book variant cover was changed, and the fact that it was changed was used as evidence to blame SJWs again

[Sakatchi]

4 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Also funny how you never did that

As for my evidence, there's this old thing. The fact that they planned a feature where you will outright get to see whether or not you're in first place pretty flatly denies it was any of this "safe space = cancer" claptrap. Removing K/D or putting it back in or whatever state the game is actually in is based on functionality. Programmers. Do not care. About what SJWs have to say on twitter.

This is like that time when a Batgirl comic book variant cover was changed, and the fact that it was changed was used as evidence to blame SJWs again

That really doesn't disprove anything I said, and its not backing up anything you're saying really.

Here's something that proves what I said though: https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/4o29g1/gg_ez_can_we_not/

There are a lot of people like that, that could just not tolerate gg ez and threw a fit about it so hard, until Blizzard censored it:http://www.pcgamer.com/gg-ez-overwatch/

Which was kinda funny, but also slightly troubling, since peoples feelings got in the way of peoples free speech.

 

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, Sakatchi said:

Here's something that proves what I said though: https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/4o29g1/gg_ez_can_we_not/

There are a lot of people like that, that could just not tolerate gg ez and threw a fit about it so hard, until Blizzard censored it:http://www.pcgamer.com/gg-ez-overwatch/

I always thought that was a joke, not a response to whining

[Sakatchi]

Just now, TARINunit9 said:

I always thought that was a joke, not a response to whining

Nope sadly.

Its a good censor, but a censor just the same.

[(PSN)Xx-Ribbium-xX]

worst idea ever. i have the highest kd ratio on ps4 for conclave. i started from nothing and i worked really hard at getting my ratio to 11.2:1 and yes it definitely does indicate skill those with a high kd ratio are the ones who truly are the best at conclave, you can spot the noob farmers with their low kd ratios but have over 100k kills and you can spot bad players because they have a negative kd ratio, removing kd stats will just ruin the competitive nature  even more than snipers and the daikyu already does  

[Stormdragon]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX said:

worst idea ever. i have the highest kd ratio on ps4 for conclave. i started from nothing and i worked really hard at getting my ratio to 11.2:1 and yes it definitely does indicate skill those with a high kd ratio are the ones who truly are the best at conclave,

Let me guess: someone needs a big meaningless number to compensate for something being the other way around.

3 hours ago, (PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX said:

you can spot the noob farmers with their low kd ratios but have over 100k kills and you can spot bad players because they have a negative kd ratio

I made this thread with a couple of examples of both, a noob farmer with less than 10K kills at that moment, and a bad player with a positive KD, both thanks to the choice of staying in RC. There is also another player with these conclave stats

His KD is higher than yours and is far away from 100K kills so based on your logic, he must be a conclave good who will mop the floor with Pythadragon (stats posted by himself above) or any other pc player getting in his way. FEAR!

3 hours ago, (PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX said:

removing kd stats will just ruin the competitive nature  even more than snipers and the daikyu already does  

Saying that certain play styles ruin the competitive nature of pvp won't magically teach you tou counter them.

[(PSN)Flatulent_Draco]

On ‎4‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 1:02 AM, Klavinmour said:

Don't tell me you quit Dark Souls because it was too hard.

 

 

That gave me a good laugh for the morning lol.

Anyway in response to the OP of this topic why the hell should K/D matter? Conclave has such a (seemingly) low population of active PvPers to where it really shouldn't matter. Perhaps if DE did focus more on PvP rather than PvE than a K/D stats display should be more detailed similarly to, dare I say, CoD with damage per minute, accuracy rating, time between kills and deaths, etc. Still I don't take K/D seriously until I see whoever it is in action, it's not hard to boost your K/D in this game.

Edited April 17, 2017 by (PS4)Benjamin_Draco

[IDS_recruitment]

K/D and deaths must be removed from profile stats dot. I tired of casual  pseudoskilled kids who run away like a scared *@##&#036;es after each hit to save their kd ratio.

Edited April 18, 2017 by No-Money.No-Friends

[TARINunit9]

22 hours ago, Sakatchi said:

Nope sadly.

Its a good censor, but a censor just the same.

Did they confirm that it was a serious "censor"?

(Feels wrong using that word, but I guess this IS like the one instance where you're actually correct in using the word "censor" in a situation where the government didn't get involved)