Oberon Feedback 20.3.1 and beyond

[(PSN)XxDarkyanxX]

Just now, -Defeater- said:

i wouldnt call it a nuke, its ok cc and now does some decent armor stripping, but anything lvl 40 and over theres little chance youre going to be donig any major damage with it. him having a health battery and not a lot of health doesnt help the situation, making vitality required if youre going to be playing sorties with him. you end up coming close to death trying to get energy. if you dont play him to heal with his 3, i feel there are better choices of frames. pretty much all he has going for him is that health over time, which granted not many other frames can do in such a large radius, and i say large but i find it hard getting everyone with the buff if you dont get it out right at the start of a mission. that leaves his cc, which there are better picks for

Misunderstanding, the nuke refers to a build with Hallowed ground augment. Concentrate all of the damage in a duration on every single enemies around ( Add to that Armor stripping from reckoning since you're using hallowed ground and you get yourself a Safe armor reducing nuke )

Vitality is a need for many frames that are more based on health, Nidus, Inaros, Trinity, you get the drill, it's just better to go with than without when you can heal yourself.
I feel like there's always going to be a better choice of frames at the point we are currently, there's so many choices so many powers to pick from. It's more about preference and theme at this point.

Oberon is doing great, he's not Meta great, but I wouldn't want to go in that zone.
Meta sounds all great and fun, but invincibility/100% armor stripping and one shot power uses aren't exactly what I'd want all warframes to have. It makes the fight kind of boring at some point.

Though I'm not against removing his shield, running a Decaying key in permanence on every warframes just for the fun of it and he still works plenty fine. If you say it'll make you feel the theme better, then so be it.
 

[steel-shielder]

with the augment of crush, you can strip armor with enough power strengh (160 brings you to the cap of the augment : 80% armor strip for x seconds; yeah the wiki isnt up to date) if your 3 finish the job, the armor removal is permanent. With 160 ps, you need to cast 2 crush and one polarize to strip the armor of lvl 140 heavy gunners, so indeed the cast animation is an issue and a natural talent is mandatory. By the way with the 4 augmented, ennemies cant resist the magnetize attraction and improve its effectiveness.

that being said : mag can scale into armor striping, we see several issues : cast time animation and the cost in energy which is tremendous as she only has 150 energy at lvl30.

The other issue is : the lack of real synergies between the abilities (with magnetize being the core) : pull isn't reliable to move ennemies in a way we would know were they drop. Impossible to bring ennemies into the magnetize buble : they dont stop into it, either just fall to their feet or go far behind mag.

polarize should help stacking damage thanks to the shards within magnetize but they deal no damage and bring no utility at all.

so the only real synergie is brought thanks to a syndicate mod... whereas Mag kit should have some on its own ! something is lacking indeed, more than the energy pool or the animations. Maybe try to bring synergy between the shards and her 4? or something that gives her srvivability ?

 

[residente]

27 minutes ago, KnightCole said:

Well, ive been playing a hellva lot more Oberon since his rework, and I can tell you, he smokes Rhino.  I look at my Rhino and go "meh", and go back to Oberon.  (I have 56% Rhino time), I used to love Rhino and played him basically exclusively.  Oberon is simply a better frame. 

Oberon is tougher then Rhino, in that he has the armor buff+healing+rage that gives him the sort of effective overall survivability I wish Rhino had.  Where Rhino gets his IS popped, there isnt much under neath, Oberon has a sustainable heal+armor buff that can be kept up basically forever.  My Oberon has only died a hand ful of times and that was because I wasnt paying attention and got hit by a mob that suddenly did ALOT more damage then the other mobs around me.  Namely: Supra Gunners, Bombards, and when I get my Heal turned off by a nully bubble(no I dont go skirting through them), but occasionally, I nick one in a heated battle.  Overall, Oberon's survivability is immense compared to both Rhino and the old Oberon. 

On Damage out put?  LOL Oberon does a S#&$ load more damage then Rhino.  Rhino cant kill a lvl 15 Corpus Moa with his stomp.  My Oberon kills entire rooms of Sedna grade Grineers and puts a world of hurt on the Heavies.  Yesterday, was on Oxomoco, my carpet alone, killed like 20 Corrupted in a matter of seconds.  It was actually surprising to see.  Oberon's damage output is immensely more powerful then it used to be. 

As for Crowd Control, yeah, just stunning mobs, making  them stand around looking pretty, thats good for a game like Everquest, WOW or something like that, but in this game, rapid dispatch of large groups of enemies is best crowd control.....simply make it where there is no crowd to control......so, yeah, I guess your right, Equinox and Mesa, best CC.  Nidus does a good job to. 

I don't know dude, you're low MR and I can't tell how do you build your frames and weapons (no offense intended, I just see things from another perspective, Star Chart missions mean nothing really).

I'm glad you're having so much fun with Oberon, he's been on my top 5 most used frames since he came out, but reality is reality: in Star Chart missions every warframe is good against everything, but you couldn't bring Oberon to endless missions like those we'd do back in the day. Rhino would be able to be relevant in a wave 190 defense or a 4 hour survival, while Oberon would stop being useful at wave 50.

Anyways there's no point in high level content anymore, DE has made clear they don't care about it, Oberon is great in the kind of content we can play, and there's no need for a frame like Rhino unless you really want to use him.

Edited May 26, 2017 by residente

[-Defeater-]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)XxDarkyanxX said:

Oberon is doing great, he's not Meta great, but I wouldn't want to go in that zone.
 

why. why wouldnt you want him to be as good as other frames. 

[(PSN)XxDarkyanxX]

Just now, -Defeater- said:

why. why wouldnt you want him to be as good as other frames. 

It's more about setting limits, the game allows for level 1-100 as normal enemies right now, but with our powers we can render even a level 750 enemy completely harmless and easy to kill.

It's not that I don't want him to be as good as other frames, it's more like the other frames feel a bit out of proportion sometime.
Imagine Oberon with the Damage reduction of any other frame, a permanent 50-75% reduction to every allies in the entire map. That's already ridiculous for our current content, but that also makes 150+ enemies completely meaningless to fight against.

Another example would be armor reduction in a wide AoE range, that sounds all neat and fun for very high level enemies to lose any armor they have, but our current content doesn't even need that much to be dealt with.

If all newly created warframes had to be part of the Meta, the game wouldn't even be playable anymore. DE would have to make the next "Normal" Level 1000 so that the most singular mistake kills you otherwise you'll always be invincible, killing everything and be bored.

How long would you last in a game where even the strongest being ever created can be killed the same way you would win in a point and click simulator.

[-Defeater-]

1 minute ago, (PS4)XxDarkyanxX said:

It's more about setting limits, the game allows for level 1-100 as normal enemies right now, but with our powers we can render even a level 750 enemy completely harmless and easy to kill.

It's not that I don't want him to be as good as other frames, it's more like the other frames feel a bit out of proportion sometime.
Imagine Oberon with the Damage reduction of any other frame, a permanent 50-75% reduction to every allies in the entire map. That's already ridiculous for our current content, but that also makes 150+ enemies completely meaningless to fight against.

Another example would be armor reduction in a wide AoE range, that sounds all neat and fun for very high level enemies to lose any armor they have, but our current content doesn't even need that much to be dealt with.

If all newly created warframes had to be part of the Meta, the game wouldn't even be playable anymore. DE would have to make the next "Normal" Level 1000 so that the most singular mistake kills you otherwise you'll always be invincible, killing everything and be bored.

How long would you last in a game where even the strongest being ever created can be killed the same way you would win in a point and click simulator.

but no one is asking for him to be op. people just want him to be more energy efficient and consistent in what he does which isnt much anyways. giving him some sort of energy regain passive wouldnt even bring him close to other frames, as is hes not needed. he could be erased from the game and nothing would change. health over time is practically nothing when you can just be one shot, or 2 shot with up  coming shield gating, and making it so he can more consistently give a just ok buff, nothing amazing, wouldnt change anything. at this point i just dont want the time de spent putting into him go to waste, i dont even think if he got these changes that hed be played on a regular basis. unless they game him some sort of crazy damage reduction like trin has, which they wont, and isnt what people are asking for, hes still going to be one of the least played frames a few months after his prime comes out. yea there will be a population of the game still playing him, but not much more than how many were playing him before the rework.
 

[(PSN)BigEffinDud]

The biggest consistency in this thread is that Renewal costs way too much energy... just to heal ONE person.... we gotta take a look at this. 

[KnightCole]

37 minutes ago, residente said:

I don't know dude, you're low MR and I can't tell how do you build your frames and weapons (no offense intended, I just see things from another perspective, Star Chart missions mean nothing really).

I'm glad you're having so much fun with Oberon, he's been on my top 5 most used frames since he came out, but reality is reality: in Star Chart missions every warframe is good against everything, but you couldn't bring Oberon to endless missions like those we'd do back in the day. Rhino would be able to be relevant in a wave 190 defense or a 4 hour survival, while Oberon would stop being useful at wave 50.

Anyways there's no point in high level content anymore, DE has made clear they don't care about it, Oberon is great in the kind of content we can play, and there's no need for a frame like Rhino unless you really want to use him.

I didnt see any point in going past 30 minutes in this game ever.  Its not like rewards increased, got better, or in anyway made it worth it. 

Honestly, what was the appeal to staying in the exact same mission for 2-3-4-5-6-7 hours?  So now your facing mobs that 1 shot you, while they come in hordes upon hordes, and your rewards are........yeah, the same crap you were earning at wave 1....

as for low MR, 13 is low MR?  30 is the max.  Besides, ive got like 700+ hrs in the game, I just never felt compelled to lvl every piece in the game just so my pointless rank could increase.  Only content I havent done is Raids, and Conclave. I tend to avoid sorties cuz the loot sux for the difficulty of the mission(yeah I know, some people sleep walk through them, and GJ)  I actually stayed at rank 8 for a long time.  If they went and made rank mean something, like 1% increase to all equipment and mods per MR, or something to make it appealing(I know about the "Capacity = MR" on weapons, but its not a Surplus of capacity to the weapon, so its kinda pointless imo.  If it was a surplus, like rank 30 gets 90 Capacity on a Potato'd gun, that'd be something.   If MR meant more loot%, more loot amount, more money per mission, chance for better loot in a mission, something...

[Ketec]

You need to start playing maps other than earth. Hes horrible at any higher level content - near worthless armor buffs and damage. short range cc, costly skill combo micromanagement.

[KnightCole]

11 minutes ago, Ketec said:

You need to start playing maps other than earth. Hes horrible at any higher level content - near worthless armor buffs and damage. short range cc, costly skill combo micromanagement.

Lol wut?  Other then Earth?  Ive taken Oberon into all matter of planets, including Kuva Fortress, and hes the frame I used to clear it up to the top 3 missions.. 

[cookieknife]

Renewal (Oberon's 3rd) NEEDS some type of buff it gives oberon for healing more enemies. The energy drain is so high that theres no point in healing allies if you die so quickly

[(PSN)XxDarkyanxX]

2 minutes ago, -Defeater- said:

but no one is asking for him to be op. people just want him to be more energy efficient and consistent in what he does which isnt much anyways. giving him some sort of energy regain passive wouldnt even bring him close to other frames, as is hes not needed. he could be erased from the game and nothing would change. health over time is practically nothing when you can just be one shot, or 2 shot with up  coming shield gating, and making it so he can more consistently give a just ok buff, nothing amazing, wouldnt change anything. at this point i just dont want the time de spent putting into him go to waste, i dont even think if he got these changes that hed be played on a regular basis. unless they game him some sort of crazy damage reduction like trin has, which they wont, and isnt what people are asking for, hes still going to be one of the least played frames a few months after his prime comes out. yea there will be a population of the game still playing him, but not much more than how many were playing him before the rework.

Energy regain passive isn't always the best answer. Having a caster frame doesn't necessarily means it has to have a way to get all of its energy back successfully.
Having to gauge your energy and not always having 100% maxed only means that you won't be Spam-ability ready.
That alone, in my opinion, is a great step into balancing weapon-fights and Ability overkill.

The ability to get one shot or not mostly comes from the unbalance that frames with 75-99% damage reduction bring to the table.
Being invincible 24/7 in any mission can only be seen as boring, the thrill of knowing you can get killed is what makes it entertaining to fight, however the tank frames being much more durable makes it hard to maintain the damage at an enjoyable pace.

The current Oberon can run sortie level mission decently, there are some twist that require you to actually manage your powers and health, but that's part of a good game management. Any further than that tests your skill and challenges your reaction time more and more, well only for a few minutes considering that the damage enters the "Must kill Damage Reduction Frames" phase nearly after that so it spikes beyond 1000-2000 damage per shot.

We've gotten used to the current Meta and taking a walk in the park at level 150-300 while still brushing every enemies left and right with no problem is now the norm in term of game play. Which mean that the frames that do "Good" are not considered enough as they don't easily reach outside of the game boundaries.

As mentioned before, the game is mostly all about Preference and theme now because all warframes with no exception can reach the Sortie level with ease.
The population of the game who plays him isn't going to suddenly spike into the ceiling unless he becomes cheese-worthy and attract the player-base that prefers playing the game in super-easy mode. A new primed look and the ability to receive a few more energy isn't going to be a game changer to anyone.

Long story short, we have to keep in mind that the content (alerts,sortie,events,invasion,fissures,missions,quest and all of the like) simply isn't going any further than 120-150 currently. Always expecting all weapons and warframes to overkill and work greatly outside of this boundary without any effort is just lazy and counterproductive.

Side note : Take into consideration that I am sick, some arguments might sound a little neglected, I tried giving you my opinion as soon as I could while fighting headaches.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

39 minutes ago, (PS4)BigEffinDud said:

The biggest consistency in this thread is that Renewal costs way too much energy... just to heal ONE person.... we gotta take a look at this. 

Healing one person is no big deal. I only use renewal wen its needed...turn it off wen it isnt

[Music4Therapy]

18 minutes ago, Ketec said:

You need to start playing maps other than earth. Hes horrible at any higher level content - near worthless armor buffs and damage. short range cc, costly skill combo micromanagement.

As someone that solos sorties and routinely spends long periods of time in Mot with Oberon (I've taken him 90 minutes solo without Naramon there), I can say with a shadow of a doubt that

1) You haven't given him a try since the latest hotfix.

2) If you did and you still believe he is "worthless in higher level content", then it is you that has spent too much time on Earth and I'd suggest actually playing him in Mot and Sorties before spewing crap all over the place.

3) You could just be a troll.

[-Defeater-]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)XxDarkyanxX said:

Long story short, we have to keep in mind that the content (alerts,sortie,events,invasion,fissures,missions,quest and all of the like) simply isn't going any further than 120-150 currently. Always expecting all weapons and warframes to overkill and work greatly outside of this boundary without any effort is just lazy and counterproductive.

so you think making the energy drain reasonable enough or to give him passive energy gain somehow in a way that would make it possible to run a build where streamline, fleeting, p flow, rage, P continuity, vitality are not required mods would make him over powered. if not, then this makes no sense. no one is asking him to give massive reduction or damage, we just want to be able to either use the ability without needing rage, or be able to mod oberon in general without taking up at least 4 or 5 or if you go with all of these, 6 mod slots just to make a heal over time work, which most youre going to get with a reasonably energy efficient build is around 60 hp/s which again, wont help against one shots. i get the game is scaled to tanky frames which is why enemies do so much damage, but at the same time this doesnt mean DE has to randomly start balancing frames for lvl 60 content, they need to have sortie 3 in mind, and saying other frames are tankier so they need to make enemies do more damage which is why oberon is balanced, is just another reason to not play oberon. 

[Music4Therapy]

Oberon has 2 major breakpoints now:

100% Power Strength = 30% Armor Reduction, 4 casts of Reckoning are required to strip enemies of armor.

115% Power Strength = 34% Armor Reduction, 3 casts, 1 mod slot (Power Drift, exilus)

170% Power Strength = 51% Armor Reduction, 2 casts, 2 mods slots (Transient Fortitude+Power Drift)

Go for the 115% or 170% marks.

[-Defeater-]

4 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

Oberon has 2 major breakpoints now:

100% Power Strength = 30% Armor Reduction, 4 casts of Reckoning are required to strip enemies of armor.

115% Power Strength = 34% Armor Reduction, 3 casts, 1 mod slot (Power Drift, exilus)

170% Power Strength = 51% Armor Reduction, 2 casts, 2 mods slots (Transient Fortitude+Power Drift)

Go for the 115% or 170% marks.

i feel like having at least 170 is kind of important, anything under that seems like it wouldnt be worth using his 3 over. another popular suggestion for this that ive seen is make him do more healing over time but get rid of the burst heal on cast since no one uses it for that anyways. 

[Music4Therapy]

19 minutes ago, -Defeater- said:

i feel like having at least 170 is kind of important, anything under that seems like it wouldnt be worth using his 3 over. another popular suggestion for this that ive seen is make him do more healing over time but get rid of the burst heal on cast since no one uses it for that anyways. 

The point being that since it only takes 2 mods slots to get him to that high of potential, you have much more to work with everywhere else. If you don't have Renewal toggled on all the time and only use it reactively to restore health as needed, his energy problem is non-existant and Rage isn't even needed, especially if you're running an Energy Siphon or Zenurik build.

The energy issues take place when you want Renewal toggled on as often as possible, and since it only takes 2 mod slots to get to 170% str, you have a lot of slots to work with to alleviate that problem if that is something you really want to do. (I prefer this playstyle, it works best with Phoenix Renewal)

Rage isn't necessary unless you keep Renewal toggled for long periods of time. Aside from that, there are frames out there that have very tight modding to work with, like Chroma, but we don't knock them for it. He has become the best armor stripping frame in the game and has SO much utility to provide his team, Ash mains are crying in a corner lol xD

Edited May 26, 2017 by Music4Therapy
grammar

[-Defeater-]

4 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

The point being that since it only takes 2 mods slots to get him to that high of potential, you have much more to work with everywhere else. If you don't have Renewal toggled on all the time and only use it reactively to restore health as needed, his energy problem is non-existant and Rage isn't even needed, especially if you're running an Energy Siphon or Zenurik build.

The energy issues take place when you want Renewal toggled on as often as possible, and since it only takes 2 mod slots to get to 170% str, you have a lot of slots to work with to alleviate that problem if that is something you really want to do.

Rage isn't necessary unless you keep Renewal toggled for long periods of time. Aside from that, there are frames out there that have very tight modding to work with, like Chroma, but we don't knock them for it. He has become the best armor stripping frame in the game and has SO much utility to provide his team, Ash mains are crying in a corner.

i guess if you just play him for stripping armor, but i feel like that would require just as much energy. they have to be on your 2, so you have to spam that a bit to cover the room cause its not the same size as your 4 and also is a half circle, and they you have to hit your 4 at least 2 times. thats a lot of energy to just strip one room of armor, on top of using your 3 in a reactive way instead of just setting it and forgetting it. i guess if you only do it to like heavy gunners and such its fine but i dont expect people to be using armor stripping set ups for him very much. also i think ash mains have been crying for a long time since his only use even before this update was john prodman runs, but thats a different discussion. i dont find chroma that hard to mod, max duration and power str, which takes up a lot of mods but thats benefits your entire kit of which youre only really using his 2 and 3 but that again is another discussion lol. and i guess you could argue having all efficiency with rage and flow help his other abilities too, but the fact that theyre nearly required for his 3 to work kind of takes away from modding diversity. 

[Music4Therapy]

1 minute ago, -Defeater- said:

i guess if you just play him for stripping armor, but i feel like that would require just as much energy. they have to be on your 2, so you have to spam that a bit to cover the room cause its not the same size as your 4 and also is a half circle, and they you have to hit your 4 at least 2 times. thats a lot of energy to just strip one room of armor, on top of using your 3 in a reactive way instead of just setting it and forgetting it. i guess if you only do it to like heavy gunners and such its fine but i dont expect people to be using armor stripping set ups for him very much. also i think ash mains have been crying for a long time since his only use even before this update was john prodman runs, but thats a different discussion. i dont find chroma that hard to mod, max duration and power str, which takes up a lot of mods but thats benefits your entire kit of which youre only really using his 2 and 3 but that again is another discussion lol. and i guess you could argue having all efficiency with rage and flow help his other abilities too, but the fact that theyre nearly required for his 3 to work kind of takes away from modding diversity. 

I agree with you on p much every point you made.

That said, there is one thing that I really, really like about Oberon. He is able to function as well as he does without the use of a focus school, and that is a huge plus for me. I like that he can function so well without Trinity or Zenurik and doesn't need Stealth/Naramon to keep himself up in the harder missions. Once focus schools are remade in the future, which DE is working on, he'll have so much freedom in choice of school to work with. Who knows how they'll be changing them, but I'm excited about the possibilities.

[-Defeater-]

Just now, Music4Therapy said:

I agree with you on p much every point you made.

That said, there is one thing that I really, really like about Oberon. He is able to function as well as he does without the use of a focus school, and that is a huge plus for me. I like that he can function so well without Trinity or Zenurik and doesn't need Stealth/Naramon to keep himself up in the harder missions. Once focus schools are remade in the future, which DE is working on, he'll have so much freedom in choice of school to work with. Who knows how they'll be changing them, but I'm excited about the possibilities.

yea that is true, it does make it so you cant just zenurik your way to energy. I have high hopes for focus changes as well

[NinjaZeku]

Get max Efficiency and Range, toss out a Hallowed Ground / Reckoning now and then, no need to heal if every enemy is CC'd :D

[Chity]

On 5/18/2017 at 7:20 AM, Leonix13 said:

By "get good" you mean 200+ power strength & syndicate mod to be worth.

No, mine is effeciency and duration with some tankmods and a rage.

[(XBOX)Ivan of Jupiter]

1 hour ago, Ketec said:

You need to start playing maps other than earth. Hes horrible at any higher level content - near worthless armor buffs and damage. short range cc, costly skill combo micromanagement.

Again with these baseless comments. Your Oberon can't get past Earth? Why? Did you neglect to mod him? Is he still unranked? Because I can do a Kuva Flood just fine with Oberon. Sure it can be intense, but thats what a lvl 100 Kuva Flood is supposed to be. Strange. It's almost like we're playing two completely different frames.

Edited May 26, 2017 by (XB1)DRG JupiterIvan

[Turtlemancer]

So I just wanted to pop in to say I have been really happy with DE's attempts to refine the initial rework, Which I think we can all agree was quite rough. While It may not be perfect I think they have really refined it sense its initial release into something genuinely useful. I am still hoping to see a couple of changes eventually but Right now I am pretty happy.

Still Feel these changes need to be made.

1. Change reckonings health orb drop effect into an effect that marks all enemies struck by the power, so that if enemies die within a certain window after being affected by reckoning they will have a higher chance to drop health orbs, rather than having a higher chance when being killed by reckoning. Maybe make it into a higher chance to drop orbs (Red or Blue) but that's not necessary.

2. Really that's all I think NEEDS to be made.

3. I would still like to see the Hallowed Eruption Augment make Hallowed Ground into a mobile effect that covers the ground in a radius around where Oberon is standing (But only so long as his feet are touching the ground.) Still allowing him t detonate the effect as well, but giving him some much needed mobility and compensating for teh fact that you cna only have one Hallowed Ground going with Hallowed Eruption equipped.