Oberon Feedback 20.3.1 and beyond

[taiiat]

i think i liked 'Enemies under Radiation Status that die on Hallowed Ground generate a bit of Energy' better.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

If nothing else, I certainly agree with allowing for a timeframe for the health orbs to spawn.

[(PSN)destroyerchris1]

38 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

And now I'm seeing youtubers going 'dude just get arcane energy. Stop crying I don't get why you're hating.'

Riiiight all I have to do as someone who doens't know the kind of time he has because he's live in help to someone with a heart problem, someone else with siezures, and i have a full time care twin. My situation is fairly unique but the point is not everyone is capable of either raiding or affording the prices. 

So going 'oh just get this hard to farm expensive thing' shouldn't be an answer for how to fix a kit.

My probem is this is a warframe partner, meaning someone that theoretically has DE's ear, going 'oh just get an arcane. it's a valid option and since it exists I'm going to use it so i  made this video to anyone who THINKS they know what they're talking about.
 
Look if the Arcanes were as easy to get as Rage. Fine, they'd be a valid option. However they are not. They are Raid Only, and rare to boot even then. Not everyone can raid, hell a vast majority DON'T raid... Look I'm going to post their comment here. I will not name them. I do not want this to turn into bashing since, while i disagree rather HEAVILY with the option they took and really severely don't want to hear 'oh arcanes exist just use that.'.... I don't want a big huge fight to break out. If you know who I'm talking about please don't go picking fights. That solves nothing. I post here because that person has the developers ear and I find that rather disheartening.

To which my response:

I'm going to have to disagree with you rather heavily on that as no in fact not everyone is capible of raiding. I could bring up the specifics of my own living situation, but it boils down to 'I never have an assurance I have that kind of time.' It's why I don't do survival grinding. Twenty minutes here? Half hour there? Fine I can do that, but just as often I'm the guy that suddenly has to go AFK for a minute or so in mission (which is horrible) so I try to avoid that sort of situation. 

If Arcanes were as common as Rage, or wer something cheaper to get on the market (They go for several thousand plat right now) Fine, that'd be an option. I'm not going to lie and say that I'm happy with how you're speaking to me, or that I don't feel more tha na little mildly insulted at how you tspeak of eeryone that has problems with the way Oberon works now.

Most everyone I've spoken with don't want OP. They don't want 'oh hey we want to be trinity that can also facetank while CCing,' or 'I wanna be Inaros with even more healing and the ability to spread radiation like candy.' If Chroma didn't exist, or if it were hard to swap frames I'd get the idea of ignoring two of Obeorn's powers, but Chroma Exists. Rhino exists. Obeorn has advantages over both in that he can buff the entire team (provided they get on the carpet they also get healing.)

It's just those little things, a nudge here and there. I have noticed he is better than he was, but after Limbo, Octavia, and Nidus... the whole thing feels rushed out the door.

Also to be blunt the act is you have DE's ear, I don't, and you have a history of (to those of us outside of the partners program) it looks like you have a massive leg up on everyone else, and when Scott on stream goes 'I am happy with where Oberon is,' and then likening the complaints to 'give them an inch and they want a mile' and now you are basically sneering down your nose?

This puts us at a rather major disagreement on things. Doesn't help I am not a fan of your presentation style and on camera persona. With that said I'm glad you have fans and success. so please, don't take any of this personal.

The fact of the matter is that ARCANES which are arguably the hardest things in the game to get are intended to be a supplement to your Warframe NOT a requirement... They're supposed to give you a slight edge. For instance chroma is more then tanky enough as is but arcane guardian gives him an edge. The fact that an arcane is REQUIRED to maintain energy costs for Oberon is basically a gigantic red flag that that frame has energy economy issues. No frame should require an arcane to be viable that shows a flawed design of a frame. So it baffles me that ppl are going around like just get arcane energize and he's fine. I freaking have energize and don't agree with this view. The hardest and rarest thing in the game to get. When that's required something is wrong period. While literally ALL other caster frames are given an edge with this arcane they don't need it... Oberon just needs it period again red flag... No other caster is in this position. He has energy issues and needing arcane energize proves it. I'm with ppl on that. AGGP I do agree Oberon has potential and is a lot better then ppl are making him out to be but to deny he has an energy issue I can't agree with that especially when you have to put a very expensive and rare bandaid to fix it.

[SenorClipClop]

23 hours ago, Oni_Spartan4 said:

Thank you for the constructive feedback! I agree that 30% is too high, but I wanted to find a good middle ground based off of what the community decides is a better value. I want to ask though are you in favor of this additional passive? I agree in the fact that it isn't reliable, but it's not supposed to be if he's gaining energy from HG as well. The combined nature of these two forms of energy regeneration provide a constant if set up correctly. Perhaps 15-20% rage is more viable, I'm not sure, let's discuss.

I like your input on reckoning and blue orbs, it would take some pressure off of hallowed ground, and given your statement about renewal, provide a more adaptable solution to the "new" oberon

After doing some more playing, I definitely think Oberon could make serious use of some kind of energy return built into his kit. I'm not quite to "he NEEDS it", though. In this respect his energy affairs are similar to other beefier frames like Valkyr, Chroma and Inaros. I play them all with Rage, and they don't need the mod, but it makes their gameplay so much smoother that I can't help but have it equipped. It's not mandatory, but it's pretty close to feeling that way. 

With that said, no player should feel locked into using this reasonably rare mod in order to make a frame sustainable at higher levels, so some kind of return system would go a long way to soothing the community on Oberon. Of the three ideas we've been discussing, here are what I think are the good ideas and possible side effects to each:

1. Passive Rage, or a minor version thereof. Oberon would gain energy equal to a portion of the damage done to his health.
   • The Good: This would further solidfy his role a frontline support and let players know that it's okay to take damage. This passive would be excellent for the high levels. Somewhere around 20% of Rage's effect sounds pretty viable if this were to be an ability.
   • Side Effects: This could encourage players to spend lots of time spamming powers everywhere and then face-tanking for Energy, especially in the lower levels. The regen is fairly passive and doesn't reward tactical play of the Bro. It might also replace the Pet-strengthening passive, which I personally enjoy for keeping them alive in long-duration missions and getting more of those sweet sweet crit buffs.
2. Enemies killed on Hallowed Ground grant Oberon Energy.
   • Excellent for the theme that Oberon sanctifies an area and empowers himself and his team with it. Enforces the defensive nature of much of Bro's kit.
   • Might be minmaxed by some players for spamming all over the map instead of choosing their battlegrounds wisely.
3. Reckoning primes targets with a chance to drop an Energy Orb upon death.
   • Great for teamplay, since the energy would be given to the whole squad and not just Oberon. Gives the Tenno an energy-restoring support beyond just Trin.
   • Might encourage Reckoning spam as opposed to using it for utility. Spam is basically a given when there's even the slightest potential for an exploit, so this isn't a very good counterargument, but perhaps some synergy would be nice. It could possibly prime just enemies slammed onto Hallowed Ground, or increase the drop chance for enemies slammed onto to HG, or have a high base drop chance but on blinded enemies instead of slammed ones.

All in all, I think I prefer the second idea most, especially since many players are dissatisfied with Hallowed Ground and it would help to reinforce Oberon's defensive, location-based gameplay. What are your thoughts?

23 hours ago, Oni_Spartan4 said:

Loved what you said at the end and I agree whole heartedly, players must give DE time to absorb opinions and make decisions, but given my previous statement we must recognize that DE operates on a business schedule, meaning things risk being left behind in the constant updating of the platform. This is why the community has to decide on what it is that they specifically want, and it's why I'm appreciating the maturity displayed on this thread. 

Thank-you! Yes, it's important that DE take its time, consider and do some internal testing, as well as gather the spectrum of feedback from the community as a rough guide, before making any significant changes to a part of the game. Continual waffling back and forth on how a frame does things can be hair-raising for many players and confuse and frustrate many more (just ask the Volt mains about U18). Let's give DE some time.

But what I really meant there was that we should give Oberon some time to settle, and give ourselves time to settle with the changes, accept them, get used to the new Oberon and try him out in a number of situations over a length of time. It really frustrates me when a player gets a new toy or rework, hops into the Simulacrum on Day 1, tests one assumedly-optimal setup against one level of one Faction and then firmly makes up their mind about the complete and total efficacy of the change. (Not naming any names. Except Brozime. That guy makes me sad.) That's not real exploration. It's not taking into account situations beyond just raw numbers. We the players need to take our time with figuring out the new Oberon and evaluate his overall performance as a Warframe. He's improved, for sure, and if we get yet more power to him, that's fantastic. I would love it. But I've been playing him in high-level content and I find he doesn't strictly need anything else. I find him on par in terms of usability with other Warframes now -- not for exactly the same things, but for what he does. I find that he fills a role in a satisfying way and I am happy with where he is.

Edited May 3, 2017 by SenorClipClop

[Tenedranox]

2 hours ago, Legion216 said:

Do you believe that the energy drain on Renewal needs further consideration?

not really, i mean im using rage all the time tho, but only to compensate situations which are too much to normally be handled. I do think that in game situations in which u can kill everything the amount of energy is totally resonable and renewal can be sustained in such, however, in situations in which u get overhelmed by enemies, therefore, situations which are too much to handle for u, the energy handling gets too hard, which is resonable. I can compensate this with rage and in every other situation is completely fine, however u could argue that this ability should be able to enhance exactly this behaviour of energy-kill rate, but this would mean that it would act different to other abilities ingame. Therefore it doesnt need a change, which doesnt mean that it wouldnt be appreciated. Btw this energy-kill rate factor is one of the reasons why nidus is so strong, he gets stronger and gets more energy the more enemies there are, which is a nice thing, but because its not the trend of the game, im not suggesting it for renewal.

[KK680]

OF NOTE: THESE ARE SMALLER SCALE CHANGES, I DO NOT THINK OBERON NEEDS A LARGE SCALE REWORK AS OF NOW, HE JUST NEEDS SOME LOVE AND TWEAKS

So, by now many of us have probably seen and tried the new Oberon, and I know the opinions of people range from meh to "he's useless", however the biggest problem I have with the guy is that he has far too much forced synergies that realy are anoying to deal with. I can't just cast my ult if I want to be effective, I have to use hallowed ground first and THEN cast it. I can't just use my heal becouse simply put it's not powerful enough, I have to tell everyone to get close to me, cast hallowed ground and THEN cast it.

And I know what you're saying, a well possitioned hallowed ground would do both the former and latter at the same time, but that never realy happens becouse warframe is built upon speed. People are always on the move, going about from objective to objective, and if I needed a frame to hunker down with, there are many better frames for the job (Frost and Vauban instantly come to mind). So, in the interest of trying to make the guy that is possibly the greatest looking frame with his deluxe skin as good as he deserves, here are some proposed tweaks:

 

1. Smite: His first ability is fine IN THEORY, and with my proposed change to hallowed ground it would be better, but the fact that the damage is split between orbs is baffling to me, especialy since building power strenght increases the amount of orbs. It should never be a thing when building more power strenght makes an ability weaker, and especialy not that an ability whos whole point is that the damage scales gets negated by armor (which is the main problem of going high up in enemy levels, not the health).

 

2. Hallowed ground: With such a fast paced game having hallowed ground be stuck in one area simply doesn't make enough sense. If I wanted a frame to control 1 single area I'd pick Vauban or Frost far far far sooner over this guy.

My proposition would be to make hallowed ground a circle that moved WITH Oberon (also props to the devs if they make little energy flowers grow in hallowed ground near Oberon's feet). Additionaly, make it so allies stepping on the ground would get the armor buff from his currect combo, and enemies that step onto the ground have their armor debuffed. This is much more comfortable to play, in the current build I need to cast 2 abilities both with casting animations to either debuff the enemies or realy buff my allies. With this? I cast 1 and move with them. My sheer presence makes my alies stronger and my enemies weaker.

 

3. Renewal: I know I'm in the minority here, but I think the nr. 3 ability is actualy right now his only genuinely good skill if you have Phoenix renewal. Giving your allies a get-out-of-jail-free card is incredibly useful, especialy on high levels where one mistake normaly means getting instakilled, and Oberon's armor and health combined with this regen means he can soft tank a lot of damage. However there is one synergy I'd like to propose. The healing would be a bit weaker than it is in live, but if allies are standing on hallowed ground while under the effects of this, the healing and armor is doubled. Same principle as before, stay next to me and I will make you unkillable, but you can go off and do your own thing if you want and I will still do what I can, but the I'm not as powerful.

 

4. Reckoning: This is probably the one I am not sure what to do with. With the changes to hallowed ground enemies allready get an armor debuff, however I guess it could be doubled if you also use reckoning while they are still on hallowed ground. Honestly I don't dislike Reckoning, but I feel as tho it might be better of it either did something realy supportive (current health drop on kills is useless on high difficulty) or did percentage damage simmilar to his nr.1. Or hell, do both, turn this ability into an equalizer that turns the tide of battle.

 

So in conclusion, as much as I love Oberon, right now he's not in a good state, and the reason I write this is not only to make him strong, but also to give him a point, a reason. Right now he's a discount trinity with some positives due to phoenix renewal, but idealy I would love it if he comanded a presence. Just him being there should make you go "okay, I am no longer a glass cannon, I can take a hit". I would love it if him just being there made everyone feel much more relaxed and able to do what they do best.

[Reeena]

As a overall longtime user and lover of Oberon, and an overall decent time player on the game (MR21 and all) I can probably make a valid input.

No changes or frame will ever BE the best, because the validity of a Frame depends on the user. One may love Nova, the other may think Nova is awful and love Valkyr. But obviously both are VERY different frames. See you could try and make up a proper DnD party of 'Tank, support, dps, looter' and they will probably the best of their capabilities. Oberon is not (simply put) to be amazing at one particular thing, or amazing at everything. His synergies (while I agree) are beautifully and radiationally combined to become who he is. Many argue and say "Well you gave us all these synergies but you break energy bar just to efficiently use him", while in some case that's incredibly true, other's it's not. It's all about looking at his whole picture. You don't use Smite on every enemy, you use it on the heavy units like Ancients, or Heavy Gunners, they take more damage from radiation and deal less damage from Puncture. Renewal with a Minion hoarder Nekros is a energy suicide. Hollowed Ground radiates everything, they take constant damage, and if you're not too close, they just attack each other, and when you radiate an ancient healer, he no longer damage reduces the hell out of enemies for us. You use reckoning, which lifts them in the air, giving a suitable amount of time for a teammate to get out of a sticky situation, and then any enemy that dies drops a health orb. As for his energy, there is no proper reasonable way to increase his energy potential without making him ridiculously overpowered, or sacrificing a nerf on his damage/heals. But you can use ways to counteract it. For instance: Invest in the Zenurik focus tree, any player who wants to get the maximum damage out of him, and is doing like Sorties or those new council alerts are bound to have the focus trees open. Once you open that tree; for the duration of the mission you can get up to 4 energy per second for the duration of the mission, which is one of the for instances. Another, is learn to time renewal correctly, and maybe not use the hell out of it, maybe use it as an initial heal, which by itself is nice. Never get a shadow nekros to depend on you, because you will hate him. Invest time or platinum in getting Rage, if you're a risky player, use the decaying dragon key to lower his shield so he has more access to the rage which equals =energy. And much more. So no you don't rely on him to be the best at one thing, that's why you can interchange your frame at anytime, that's why you invest on main'ing more than one frame. I'm not forcing people to love him, simply saying that before you make heated arguments on things, simply take time to look at the whole frame. Embrace the Reindeer.

[(PSN)Oreic-Reynier]

I shouldn't be punished and not able to effectively use one of my abilities just because a Nekros is using one of his. Bad game design and I hope its a bug. 

Edited May 3, 2017 by (PS4)Oreic-Reynier

[(XBOX)GameNerd300]

I, for one, am looking forward to trying out his rework once it hits consoles. I liked using Oberon but other frames came along and felt better than him. Now that he's been worked, I want to try him out and see what everyone is talking about.

[The_Nihilist]

So, we got Oberon tweaked around a week ago or so. He's always been a frame that i´ve liked on paper, but never found him a role where he'd stand on his own, or endure more challenging scenarios beyond the starchart.

There has been a lot of heat around his changes. A lot of people were either expecting an actual rework, or that he'd turn into a trite nuker that whatever skill he uses, gets everything done. I wouldn't want to play such unchallenging game, and that's why i tend to avoid certain frames (even tho i generally main Loki Prime... I know, hypocresy).

But a lot of people have jumped to conclusions or pushed their own ideal over what Oberon's actually meant to be. I personally wanted him to have his 4 reworked into an exalted sword and shield, where you'd absorb damage with the shield, and channel the absorbed damage by the shield on to his blade, a bit like certain Equinox mechanic that makes him/her/it pretty broken, but that's my own head cannon. I won't pretend I know better than the people that have built the game, even if they can actually make mistakes or overlook certain aspects.

I was in denial when news spread that Oberon's rework made him the worst frame, since he already had that reputation, but was never so agressively yelled by such a large portion of the community, so I started theorycrafting and trying many possible setups, even started building a second Oberon to try around different polarities. A lot of people started repeating one sentence to the point they made it cringeworthy "Jack of all trades, master of none"... As if he was some poorly thought out Red Mage from Final Fantasy... But if there is one thing Red Mages have is, autonomy and versatility, and Red Mages don't carry stuff like a Tigris Prime or a Galatine Prime, and they can do what White Mages, Black Mages and Warriors cannot do on their own.

Figured a build that finally worked for me, its VERY energy hungry, and extremely dependent on certain not SO common mods. I use no augments, hardly use smite, and i only use reckoning as a quick crowd control to give myself or teammates an opening to breathe. I built him around the armor/regen but, with Rage, and looking to get hit as hard as possible to keep it up. The result was better than i expected, was able to solo sorties without much of a problem, but most importantly, since i play warframe to enjoy the actual game, it made him fun to play.

The people i´ve partied with actually got quite impressed by what Oberon could pull, from keeping alive an unranked party that was getting shot from all corners, without being remotely endangered, to making Banshee, one of the squishiest frame, facetank a heavy gunner without a problem. My friends always prefered me to take a full range Loki to high level content, now they prefer i bring Oberon, cause its more fun to be shooting at enemies that shoot at you than to be mercy killing enemies that are disarmed and fighting each other. A friend who mains Trinity Prime was kind of confussed as he felt he could provide nothing to me, since well... Energy Vampire doesnt actually give Oberon any energy back when he's got renewal active, which is a shame, but it might absolutely break the game if it was actually possible. Trinity heals were very much unnecesary in the stages we were playing, and her link became almost redundant to my friend to to the high regen speed and flat armor rating.

 

Did a quick mashup so forum users could see what i mean... I might make another one with higher level enemies, since even at lvl 100 most of the damage was easy to manage. Im intentionally wearing a decaying dragon key to drive the point even deeper, its part of the build for medium level content, really, since at low level this build doesnt really work...Low level is just redundant when you have reactors and good weapons.

 

 

I bet you've never seen Banshee facetank a heavy gunner... I´ve been surrounded by bombards, heavy gunners, and even had turrets focused on me for testing sake... No big deal, and even if they're high level, the health loss is pretty easy to manage.

I´ve seen MemeSage do a completely different 180º build from mine, and he could actually pull decent damage as Oberon, tho i don't see him much as damage dealer, i let the weapons handle that. But a guy that can make the party have equal or superior armor values to the ones of Valkyr, that provides regen, and cleanses... Come on, what level of denial pushes a community to dismiss such good features? Or more like ignore then and jump on the bandwagon of "HE SUCKS!" without even bothering to do some proper research persinally.

Oberon is still far from perfect, he is very energy hungry, but at the same time it makes it challenging. If he ever gets a Prime version, i´d say he just needs a bit more base armor and health. Not even more energy, even if he needs a lot of it, the quantity isnt as much of a problem as it is the speed at which he drains it, specially when taking care of large groups. But in generall, i say these tweaks have been a step in the right direction for a frame that was very mediocre.

Anyways, thanks for reading if you got this far, and excuse my beneath average english.

Edited May 4, 2017 by The_Nihilist

[Myulin]

Alright, since Scott wishes some feedback, here's a simple feedback that has been allready said, but put simply to understand, moreover i don't think it's up to me to propose some idea, your staff is responsible for that, THEY should come up with something and TEST it.

In order of "importance":

• Hallowed ground : 
  • Need more range OR, change the way the area of effect is spread (on the ground it's almost useless with Parkour 2.0)
  • Performance issues.
• Smite :
  • No scalling whatsoever (CF. Brozime Stream).
• Renewal :
  • Energy consumption is very high, but the base drain is decent. It's when renewal should be VERY useful that it becomes really annoying : say i lose a great amount of health and so does my teammates, my energy is drained but i'm NOT able to CC with Reckoning, so we die eventually, no amount of health regen can heal the DPS of a corrupted gunner level 80, let alone level 100+. Hope you get the idea.
• Reckoning :
  • It's decent CC. No comment.

 

I know it's not detailed like other, i URGE DE to take into account those ideas as well. It's purposely simple to adress the more urgent matter, i think Oberon isn't going to be re-revisited only once but maybe twice. He's an icon of this game, i think DE can understand that given the amount of feedback ^^. 

[Hemmo67]

whaaaaaaaaaat O_O

h-ho-HOW teach me senpai show me your ways of ultimate healing oberon master :'C

[Doomsknightmare]

He ain't bad nor badass, he's just not good enough compared to other all-rounded frames.

[(XBOX)TheMadCash]

Interesting. I was hearing that Oberon can be very energy hungry when keeping Renewal up for yourself and teammates. Rage does seem like a good mod for him to use. But Radiation could be in the way of that when fighting enemies other than the infested. Since radiation makes the enemies fight each other half the time and not getting shot often to keep your energy up to keep up with the drain from keeping your allies health up + armor. I have to do some testing when his changes come to consoles

Edit: What's your build by the way?

Edited May 4, 2017 by (XB1)Cash201293

[Windy_Wind]

He's better, but unless you run with someone you know, he/she won't stand for a bit a let you buff them.  People just bullet jump all over the place to even stand on hallow ground to get the buff. Again, his 2nd and 3rd are nowhere near "synergy"  because they are dependent. Missing one or the other and they will feel extremely weak. And of course, his 4th is inefficient for 100 energy because again the dependence on hallow ground to trigger armor debuff

So what should be called "synergy"? 

Renewal should have its own armor buff. While armor buff is active, standing on hallow ground will double the armor buff effect (or double healing speed). This is synergy

Reckoning should trigger armor debuff on its own, if enemy is on hallow ground, double (or 1.5x) the armor debuff effect. There.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Windy_Wind

[Gravitus123]

Its not bad but could still use a few tweaks

[nameomnz]

If want to ask me what buff could potentialy make oberon stand out of other frame.

Only one tweek and haters will reclaim themselves.

 

[Doomsknightmare]

@[DE]ScottP Please, the God of Warframe, bless bro Oberon with tomorrow's update !

 

[Shy0]

i feel like "reworked" oberon plays much the same as old oberon. nice change to the passive, and aside from more area covered by hallowed ground and more energy drain for renewal when healing, i'm not noticing much of a difference in effectiveness or playstyle.

[BimBeuron]

The rework was kinda bad to me, not a disaster, but it could've gone better. I just want them to change one thing:

Make renewal be able to heal players at any range like before.

I realized I hated the renewal limited range change yesterday when I was trying to heal team mates I wasn't able to directly communicate with, I had to chase them across the map just so I could activate it when they were in range.

[--RV--arm4geddon-117]

i'd love to see the base range of his abilities increased but other than that after re doing that sortie 3 eximus survival 20+ times on my day off today, with the most various random pugs and by using him accordingly ) i had a fun time every run. more tweaks are welcome anyway,

Edited May 4, 2017 by arm4geddon-117

[LokiTheCondom]

Welp, Oberon lovers. As of 20.4 all we get is improved base energy pool and better visuals for Hallowed Ground.

More than a thousand replies and this is the best they will do.

[Doomsknightmare]

1 minute ago, LokiTheCondom said:

Welp, Oberon lovers. As of 20.4 all we get is improved base energy pool and better visuals for Hallowed Ground.

More than a thousand replies and this is the best they will do.

Seems this is the final patch for bro Oberon, not expected, but acceptable.

[robbybe01234]

Not too upset.

Hallowed's visuals aren't noticeably different, but I'll mess with my settings.

I don't think I need rage anymore with 638 energy, that should work on its own.

[blacklusterseph]

I tried him out again as I don't know much about optimizing him. If anything, he seems more enjoyable to play now than before. For me a big thing was the change to the shape of hallowed ground. The kit seems decent in general and the only thing I've struggled with so far is the energy consumption. Sure, Oberon's rework isn't maybe the ultimate result for him, but I think people that are outright flaming it right now are being rather dishonest.