Mesa exploit: Melee only missions and Secondary mods

[Ext3h]

In Melee only missions, the mods installed on an (inaccessible) secondary weapon still boost the Peacemaker ability, rendering the restrictions ineffective.

Apparently the same also applies to other frames where Warframe abilities inherit a boost from the equipped weapons. Even of the weapon type is forbidden in that mission, the abilities still inherit the full damage boosts.

This is not so much about whether Mesa, Ivara, Titania or other frames should be able to activate their special weapon abilities if it's against the mission conditions, but only about being able to profit from mods on equipment which the mission doesn't even allow in the first place.

 

This wasn't an issue back then when you were forced to unequip forbidden equipment parts before the group could start the mission! This exploit was only introduced since weapons are "auto-removed" on mission start. Well, obviously they are not removed soon enough.

[motorfirebox]

This seems more like a solved issue than an exploit.

[Dhrekr]

 

So by "exploit" you mean "Ivara, Mesa, Titania are not enormously penalized by something", right?

[Xaero]

Yet at the same time such thing doesn't work on Excal.

[ShadowStalker]

this is a really OP Broken Gamebreaking Vivergate type on deal i went with mesa pressed 4 AND BOOM Mission completed screen Sick Exploit ;D. DE Pls buff 

[minidelight]

why should warframes with exalted weapons have one power gimped because a no weapon restriction mission modifier?

this only shows that exalted powers should have a diferent modding loadout  independent of the weapon itself...but i guess thats too "complex" to implement.....

Edited April 29, 2017 by minidelight

[ShadowStalker]

4 minutes ago, minidelight said:

why should warframes with exalted weapons have one power gimped because a no weapon restriction mission modifier?

this only shows that exalted powers should have a diferent modding loadout  independent of the weapon itself...but i guess thats too "complex" to implement.....

Agreed

[Immijimmi]

On 29/04/2017 at 3:44 PM, minidelight said:

why should warframes with exalted weapons have one power gimped because a no weapon restriction mission modifier?

this only shows that exalted powers should have a diferent modding loadout  independent of the weapon itself...but i guess thats too "complex" to implement.....

My issue with that is we will probably need 2 of each mod that we use on both the weapon and the ability, the same way that sentinel weapons work if they are the same type as an equipped weapon. Think I would rather just sacrifice my secondary to max the ability than have to level another hornet strike to max.

[Azamagon]

1 hour ago, Immijimmi said:

My issue with that is we will probably need 2 of each mod that we use on both the weapon and the ability, the same way that sentinel weapons work if they are the same type as an equipped weapon. Think I would rather just sacrifice my secondary to max the ability than have to level another hornet strike to max.

Who said it had to work like that though? I mean, it currently DOESN'T anyway. So being able to put the same mod in your exalted weapon and real weapon at the same time wouldn't be an issue of balance.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

Well, Exalted weapons aren't affected by Shadow Debt mods and Riven mods so... tbqh, this so called "exploit" isn't really that big of a deal. It's better that this system is in effect than having to wait for your squad members to unequip the appropriate weapons to suit the restricted weapon sortie condition.

On 4/29/2017 at 10:34 AM, Dhrekr said:

 

So by "exploit" you mean "Ivara, Mesa, Titania are not enormously penalized by something", right?

^Pretty much this.

[Vivian]

Wukong's primal fury doesn't get a buff (stats from mods) from Sorties where melee isn't allowed. I guessed it'd be the same for the rest. 

Edited May 1, 2017 by VBNXS

[Obviousclone]

only usable in that one event we just had

 

in a weapon restricted sortie, you aren't even allowed to have those weapons equipped in your loadout.

[(PSN)watt4hem]

Ssh.

[AuroraSonicBoom]

I'd classify this as a bug because players don't have to go out of their way to achieve the effect. It still needs to be fixed/nerfed, though.

[Azamagon]

7 hours ago, Obviousclone said:

only usable in that one event we just had

 

in a weapon restricted sortie, you aren't even allowed to have those weapons equipped in your loadout.

Not true. You can have them equipped while going in to sorties these days (was added as a QoL so you don't have to go and unequip stuff every time), thus why the others can "exploit" this.

3 hours ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

I'd classify this as a bug because players don't have to go out of their way to achieve the effect. It still needs to be fixed/nerfed, though.

Honestly, how is this really a bug?

Why shouldn't all Warframes be allowed to use all their powers? Mesas pistols, for example, are first and foremost an ability, not a true weapon. It costs energy, not ammo. Saying that you shouldn't be allowed to use such powers in a melee-only sortie is like saying Trinity can't use Energy Vampire in an energy reduction sortie. Or Frost can't use any of his abilities in a fire sortie. Or Ember can't use her powers in an extreme cold sortie.

Abilities =/= Weapons, thus shouldn't be hampered by weaponrestriction sorties either.

[Gamma745]

On 4/29/2017 at 9:34 PM, Dhrekr said:

So by "exploit" you mean "Ivara, Mesa, Titania are not enormously penalized by something", right?

Um, my Titania was gimped. No Dex Pixia available... Don't know about Ivara though. Someone said it was a bug, though we need DE word on that.

[Seinerweisen]

On 4/29/2017 at 10:12 AM, Ext3h said:

In Melee only missions, the mods installed on an (inaccessible) secondary weapon still boost the Peacemaker ability, rendering the restrictions ineffective.

Apparently the same also applies to other frames where Warframe abilities inherit a boost from the equipped weapons. Even of the weapon type is forbidden in that mission, the abilities still inherit the full damage boosts.

This is not so much about whether Mesa, Ivara, Titania or other frames should be able to activate their special weapon abilities if it's against the mission conditions, but only about being able to profit from mods on equipment which the mission doesn't even allow in the first place.

 

This wasn't an issue back then when you were forced to unequip forbidden equipment parts before the group could start the mission! This exploit was only introduced since weapons are "auto-removed" on mission start. Well, obviously they are not removed soon enough.

Thank you so much for your service Tenno...... This gamebreaking exploit must be hotfixed immediately.....Job well done. Really a great service...
Extreme sarcasm... Nice going..... 

[Vaporoxgaming]

This was actually intentional.  Not a bug, not an exploit, not an issue, an explicit feature implemented by the developers.

[GKDK]

People just want to complain about every single thing in this game. Even if it does no harm to them. Are you mad that people using mesa aka your team mates completed that design council challenge?

[Vaporoxgaming]

1 minute ago, GKDK said:

People just want to complain about every single thing in this game. Even if it does no harm to them. Are you mad that people using mesa aka your team mates completed that design council challenge?

Oh jeez you played that?  Not worth the Catalyst BP if you ask me.  Hell of a trooper though.  You have my respect!

[Rolunde]

I gotta agree with the people saying that this should be intentional and not a bug.

Otherwise Exalted weapon Frames take a huge hit going into a mission where their Exalted comes pre-nerfed.

Most frames don't get nerfed due to having a weapon becoming default unequipped, so why should the Exalted? 

Also along those lines, there is the whole issue that it's highly arguable that at least some Exalted weapons don't even reach the level of power of the truly Good weapons in that class.
(People have argued or discussed for a long time that Excal, Valkyr and Wukong are better off using their actual melee weapon than their Exalted. Valkyr leans into it by having
 her invulnerability packaged with it though.)

Plus Exalteds are a Toggle Ability and using them effectively usually reacquires that you built for it, both the Frame and associated Weapon. 

So, be this Good or Bad aside, mechanically speaking there's a simple fix if DE wanted to go that route. And that's imply to rework all the Exalted weapons to scale off of Warframe Mods rather than Weapon mods.

The downside to that is that (well 1. DE would have to rework all the Exalted weapons, but 2.) Exalted weapon building would become much less diverse or over simplified. 

If you were no longer able to choose certain damage types against certain enemies then at best we'd just have base damage or some kind of undefined "exalted energy" damage.  Which really that might not be a terrible thing either, heh.

A bit off topic, but as I've said elsewhere, it seemed to me that the "DC Challenge" was more about having a scaled up mission available for those that wanted to do it,
rather than "Come get your Free Catalyst".

[Vaporoxgaming]

6 minutes ago, Rolunde said:

I gotta agree with the people saying that this should be intentional and not a bug.

Otherwise Exalted weapon Frames take a huge hit going into a mission where their Exalted comes pre-nerfed.

Most frames don't get nerfed due to having a weapon becoming default unequipped, so why should the Exalted? 

Also along those lines, there is the whole issue that it's highly arguable that at least some Exalted weapons don't even reach the level of power of the truly Good weapons in that class.
(People have argued or discussed for a long time that Excal, Valkyr and Wukong are better off using their actual melee weapon than their Exalted. Valkyr leans into it by having
 her invulnerability packaged with it though.)

Plus Exalteds are a Toggle Ability and using them effectively usually reacquires that you built for it, both the Frame and associated Weapon. 

So, be this Good or Bad aside, mechanically speaking there's a simple fix if DE wanted to go that route. And that's imply to rework all the Exalted weapons to scale off of Warframe Mods rather than Weapon mods.

The downside to that is that (well 1. DE would have to rework all the Exalted weapons, but 2.) Exalted weapon building would become much less diverse or over simplified. 

If you were no longer able to choose certain damage types against certain enemies then at best we'd just have base damage or some kind of undefined "exalted energy" damage.  Which really that might not be a terrible thing either, heh.

A bit off topic, but as I've said elsewhere, it seemed to me that the "DC Challenge" was more about having a scaled up mission available for those that wanted to do it,
rather than "Come get your Free Catalyst".

It is intentional though.