Trade Toxicity is a Problem

[Arniox]

11 hours ago, (PS4)QuintusScorpius said:

"By the way, everyone else understood what I meant the first time 'friend' :)". I was obviously extremely mad about this.

Um.. 

 I'm not sure how you're mad at this. You seem like a respectable guy. This should barely annoy you. 

When someone says: everyone else [somthing, something] I usually reply that I'm not like everyone else :P

[FairyTael]

12 hours ago, (PS4)QuintusScorpius said:

*Using in-game trade instead of warframe.market*

Well, there's your problem.

[Chipputer]

I've had a few people who thought that they could change my principles by offering a higher price to me and then complaining when I told them that I already sold it to someone for the price I wanted.

"It's not first come first serve, it's a free market, you're an idiot." *promptly ignores me before I can say anything back*

Doesn't happen often, but I'm left flabbergasted every time.

[(PSN)maso_sage-mode]

trade chat is broken, say thanks to vault system and fissures. everything is too easy to obtain...also if you post ridiculous low offers dont expect to be treated fairly...education always matters, but not everyone is kind in trade chat and i add sadly to it.

[(XBOX)Solargeo]

13 hours ago, MrM1 said:

I do not know what's up with the PS4 trades, but I can confirm that I've never encountered someone insulting anyone, in the PC trades (Germany). Maybe it's just the country, maybe I was just lucky to always meet the friendly people.

However, even if something like that happens, it often has a reason. If the seller tries to sell something for the full price and someone tries to spare a few Plat, I can understand why the seller may be toxic. Imagine he has been grinding himself to get that _____ Prime, he expects to get, eg, 100 Plat. And out of nowhere someone comes up with an offer of just 90. Yeah, these 10 are no problem, but if this happens 10 times? The seller lost 100 Plat. You get what I mean? That's how business works (even in games), matey.

So, what are you trying to achieve? An option to report people for being toxic? I'd bet that you have not played the real salt-games out there. Something like CS:GO, LoL and so on. Because if you did have played those, you'd know that the communities there are really toxic, Warframe, in comparison to them, is heaven. And those games do have options to report people for being toxic, but since the whole community is toxic, you only waste your time by reporting them. My point?- Even if we would have that option, it won't improve the trading experience. People will stay like that. I mean, if someone got reported quite often for that, what would you, as a dev, do to them? Ban them from trade chat? They'll come back to the trade chat anyway.

if they are angry about that ..well they need better management. because to me 90 plat 10 times it 900 plat.  if I got the sales fast idc.. sure I only really sell stuff so

[ashrah]

15 hours ago, Zagrax said:

When people say "PMO" and I hit anywhere under the going rate, typically people say "lol" and put me on ignore rather than just counteroffer the 5-10P they wanted more and lose out on a sale. Haggling is dead.

some ppl just dont think i had once guy who was bought from me 5 max primed mods... just wen they are come out.. and i lower him prices by myself...and for other trades relly if i have 20 same mods and someone wish to buy 1 to me dosent matter if u igive him for lower price.. and both sides happy

[-Darvo-]

5 hours ago, (PS4)supernova_girlie said:

40,920 Endo (that's 10.5 sorties, assuming you get the 4000 endo each time. In the market 1000Endo = 100p, this comes to over 4000p!)

Seriously? No one buys endo in the market. 
Ayatan Anasa sculptures give 3000+ endo and they're worth 10-15p nowadays.
Assuming you need 40k endo for a maxed mod, you'll need about 13-14 sculptures for it (Anasa specifically). How much is that worth? 200+ plat or maybe less.
1000 endo = 3-5 platinum
 

Edited May 8, 2017 by KeroroDo

[Iceheart125]

I run into this a lot with rivens. Offer to buy a popular or decent riven for 150 ish platinum, regardless of stats, and I either get ignored or some fairly toxic replies. I don't think there needs to be a report function or anything, but asking 900 plat for a nightmare mod level stat riven is kinda disspointing.

[saltygr33n]

I could be wrong but, it feels like people who don't buy their own platinums are more likely to insult and or ridicule others for pricing items beyond their expectations.

I for one, don't really care much if someone offers too low or try to cheat me into paying more than I should, but I have a general rule to never buy a set for more than 300p or mod for more than 200p, but since I rarely ever use trade chat anyway, I can say, it isn't a problem for me.

I give away items more than I bother to sell.

[KaiserGrimoire]

The ignore feature exists for a reason. :)

[Lanadra]

On ‎7‎-‎5‎-‎2017 at 11:02 AM, (PS4)QuintusScorpius said:

   -So I have a couple examples for this one from personal experience. One occasion I saw someone selling arcanes, but they articulated the items they were selling in an odd way with no conjunctions making it seem like they were using an adjective as a noun, but I wasn't sure so I sent them a message asking if that is what they meant. They responded with a no, so I explained my confusion and went on my way, however, a few minutes later they messaged me back saying something along the lines of "By the way, everyone else understood what I meant the first time 'friend' :)". I was obviously extremely mad about this.

To that I'd respond with something along the lines of ''Well, you see, I'm special'' and leave it to them to decide whether they want to take that as a negative kind of special or whatever and be done with it.

I can't really imagine why or how it would make you ''extremely mad'' though.

Anyhow, as a general rule of thumb, I trade only with people that put a price on their item, either in their WTS message, or when I ask what price they had in mind. If ''offer'' is all I get, I may make an attempt to get a price out of them if it's an item I really want, but most often I'll just ''nty'' at that point.

If there is one thing that I hate, it's being in a situation where you sometimes have an item with a dynamic price range, for example between 50 and 70, again, -example-, where 50 is the low side, yet still considered a fair price, and you have no clue whether 50 or 60 will get you a deal or just a bad attitude. If you can't or won't put a price to your item, you're not worth dealing with.

[Tacritan]

I just ignore reta... umm, not too smart people who cant even say their price. They are the owner of the item, they know exactly how much they are expecting for it. And if they dont, then they should ask around instead of cluttering trade chat with "WTS XXX PM MI OFURZ" A good trader simply puts in his ad all the prices for his wares, they might be sometimes high, but at least they are straight and you know what to expect.

[(PSN)QuintusScorpius]

We might be detracting from the point here. Yes, we understand what good trade practices are, but do you guys think that trade toxicity is a problem? It's pretty clear what people do/can do to alleviate the number of people being toxic on a personal level, and some people have posed ignoring as an option, but that is a reactionary and partial solution. So you ignore the person and go on your way. That didn't stop them from saying/doing what they did initially, and that doesn't stop them from doing that to others either. 

I think it's a problem because the people doing it (probably) know as long as they don't do any easily categorizable forms of harassment they get away with it. I can't really call 1-2 "mean" comments harassment because it isn't continuous. At least in real life you have social facilitation effects that help discourage people from/make people feel foolish for taking uncalled actions. There is no such thing online, so to the people saying "you have to deal with unpleasant people in real life too", I'd like to remind you that we're talking about two very different things here.

Edited May 8, 2017 by (PS4)QuintusScorpius

[(PSN)hahajake]

That isnt toxicity. I cant stand that people have abused that word the same way the word bullying is abused.

2nd, what is the point of this post? Nothing can, will nor should be done about this.

3rd, i almost never experience these issues and i trade a lot. And i mean a lot. I bought an embarrassing amount of plat over the years so i can buy weaps and primes and mods. Because i use a little tact when communicating instead of making absurd and offensive offers. 

This thread should be closed. Pointless.

[Shenaniger]

On 5/7/2017 at 5:02 AM, (PS4)QuintusScorpius said:

Am I referencing isolated cases? Do you think this is a problem as well? Please, do share your thoughts and experiences. I'd like to know if these kinds of problems are a common occurrence and if anyone else thinks we've been due for some changes. My only reference are some more sociable traders and my clan which represent a relatively small portion of the active community. 

What you're referencing aren't isolated cases these days (on PC anyways). This kind of toxicity is quite common now and is why I often refer to trade chat as cancer. I see too many people up-selling crap by ridiculous margins, just because they can occasionally rip off an unaware player (900p for ember prime when the market average is less than 650? Really?). Although they're within their right to do so, it speaks volumes about their character; it's sleazy salesmanship and it's pathetic.

Luckily, I don't consider it much of a problem. These clowns aren't on the rise; it's just that more and more fair traders are moving away from trade chat to third-party trading sites like Warframe Market and NexusStats. Whenever I chat with new players and they mention that they've been ripped off or verbally shot down for not knowing the market, I just tell them to use one of those websites and to stay away from trade chat. Let the garbage bags be toxic to one-another, while you go and enjoy the game.

Just to be clear, if you're up-selling something by 5-10%, you're not the kind of person I'm talking about, and in fact I respect you. I think 5-10% is absolutely fair; you're putting in the effort to look for a buyer and if you find one, good on you. However, if someone is up-selling by 40%, then they're effectively looking for someone they can rip off, and the ones who get ripped off by that kind of crap are, more often than not, newcomers. That kind of person is a cancer to the community, and is absolutely worthless (go join a corpus cult, you pathetic coin monkey).

[Maqabir]

Got told I'm a scammer and was ignored by a player after attempting to sell a primed mod for 120 Plat. 

Checked afterwards what it normally went for on warframe market and it sold for around what I wanted.

People just seem to be so on edge, if the guy had asked I'd have sold it for cheaper but he'd rather just assume everyone is out to get him.

[TerrorLTZ]

my self just got 2 records of auto ignoring 1 by just 5 plat more... and tried to tell him i can lower the price with no problem but "this user is ignoring you" :| and the other by asking help (he wanted to trade my nova prime for stuff. I needed the plat)

22 hours ago, saltygr33n said:

I could be wrong but, it feels like people who don't buy their own platinums are more likely to insult and or ridicule others for pricing items beyond their expectations.

i don't buy plat, but i never go everywhere try to cheap something

16 hours ago, KiezerHD said:

The ignore feature exists for a reason. :)

ignore isn't always a good solution its like a trigger to the "i don't like you" gun

5 hours ago, Tacritan said:

I just ignore reta... umm, not too smart people who cant even say their price. They are the owner of the item, they know exactly how much they are expecting for it. And if they dont, then they should ask around instead of cluttering trade chat with "WTS XXX PM MI OFURZ" A good trader simply puts in his ad all the prices for his wares, they might be sometimes high, but at least they are straight and you know what to expect.

i sometimes use WTB to get some price ranges (rather seeing warframe.market or nexus) and sell it quick, u can even say hey put your price but like everything has their price and it changes. if u use warframe.market price just buy from there than coming to the trade chat. also i do that too only to rivens or anything that i dont have any clue (then ask to a friend if it is right or not)

Its like TF2 if u try to sell a common hat like a 2 key price less pep will buy it because everyone know its worth 1 - 1.33 ref and the community made that price.

[dreadgame]

So people are S#&$ty to each other in general and by default so maybe there are less reasons to be kind and polite in ps4 wf community.

OR

From the example you have given, seems to me you're just easily triggered or your ego is the size of a galaxy or you just care too much.

[Ghogiel]

Try PMO towards the high end of market value/over market value and see what happens everytime. People will not ignore you and you'll get trades because you are now the intended target of the trade ad.

Ignores are the risk you take looking for something on cheap or looking to harpoon a whale for a big score when selling. If neither of those interest you the only reason to ever PMO is rivens. Everything else can be traded without having to deal with PMOing anything.

[Potato]

At first I was generally like "Really? What's wrong with the trade? it seems fine." Until I saw you were on PS4. I heard there is a lot more toxicity on there as comparison to PC. But yeah, toxicity should not be in Warframe, and should be sent back to the angry CSGO players.

[(PSN)Elvenbane]

2 hours ago, Potato said:

At first I was generally like "Really? What's wrong with the trade? it seems fine." Until I saw you were on PS4. I heard there is a lot more toxicity on there as comparison to PC. But yeah, toxicity should not be in Warframe, and should be sent back to the angry CSGO players.

Who did you hear this from, and how did they arrive at this conclusion? I call hogwash, people are people, I'm sure the trade experience is similar on all platforms. Do a quick search, you'll find plenty of PC players bemoaning trades gone bad. Please don't make unfounded generalizations and spread misinformation. My trade experience over the years has been positive, but that may be due to using common sense, being polite, and being patient.

[Sziklamester]

Trading is a difficult thing because everyone in this game grinding and some people live on grinds. There is a unavoidable rng system in game which make different experiences to peoples and not everyone getting the same common items from mobs like others and the pricing is always depend on the asked price (how much profit I want to make) and the demands (how much money wish to save). These two is playing a big role in the trade and there is some natural haggling price and promotional items if you buy this I'll give you something. Most of the peolples haven't sense of this and these peoples made flat trades and trying to get small amounts. Those whom haggling are trying to get the possible best two of you for the part of buyer and seller, because everything has a price and no less important how much plat you can save on more important things. Supernova girlie see how much work behind in a primed mods and overall there is a huge work on mods to be the very best. 1 platinum is 500 credit and you can sell these items on market for cheap money (credits) and every item have a different set of rngs to peoples which makes difficult the farming. In other games there are some fix drops here just few which makes different demands and prices for the said item. Maybe someone missing a jagged edge some have a plenty of it because the rng is good with him again other have less luck with another items.

If we want to give the items some price then peoples put it the effort, the luck, the profit needs and these makes the items pricing. In reality nothing have to be priced because in game materials and these should be equal to everyone whom hunting a specific boss or enemy type but otherwise the devs cannot make profit so the rng is their friend.

 

The behaviour of peoples are personal dependant and sometimes situational dependant. If you have a bad day then probably the best you don't go trading because you want avoid to be pissed or pissing others. If you not sure with a pricing the best option is always the ask but the flower language and patience is not the most two attribute in a gaming community and peoples mostly never knew these simple things. You can be polite and ask because the polite ask most of the time make choice for a polite answer but of course different peoples sees things differently. If you cannot deal with those peoples whom bugging you the best option is still the ignoring however it is not a nice and polite thing because you never know in the future maybe both of you could help each oher so be aware and be polite / kind.

 

Reporting is not a nice moment aswell and it was common in the communist era which meant literally killing others without seeing them or knowing them and this practice makes more trouble than good. Live and let live.

[(PSN)ghinellil]

Too many trying to buy for cheap, and resell for big plats. Lately i use the ignore button often... pity are always newbies to get cheated.

[EmptyFort]

I stopped reading at, "sells item for a higher price and responds gg", basically trade is a minigame, you haggle back and forth, sometimes you sell your item cheaper than you'd like, sometimes you score a sick deal, it sounds like you're taking trade channel toon personally, I don't see anything really constructive going on here other than a "thisbothersmewhoagrees?" But there's no solution here to any of it, because you'd have to get every person on trade chat to change their personalities.

[(PSN)drpunk-yo]

Yeah, there's horrible people in trade chat.

Just gotta rise above it and not get dragged in.

A "sry" or "nty" is generally all you gotta post and just move on.

I'd like to add there's plenty of nice people in trade chat too.

Edited May 9, 2017 by (PS4)drpunk-yo