Why melee riven mods should not be introduced

[(PSN)bullet1351]

1. Melee weapons are already more powerful then any other weapon class: Melee weapons are able to take advantage of stealth damage, finisher attacks, certain stances increasing damage, and the acolyte mods increasing combo and crit to insane levels. Melee weapons do not need a power increase from rivens and if they were introduced we would have thrown any sense of balance out the window with galatine rivens increasing crit, reach, speed, and combo duration.

2.  Riven capacity is limited: We started with 15 riven slots for rifles. those filled in few weeks we got the option to buy 45 more with shotgun and pistol rivens giving us a total of 60. 60 slot for people who have the plat to buy them and plenty of people saying we need more slot. DE has said there are technical limitations with increasing the riven capacity they would have to increase the capacity to at least 100 slots for people to be satisfied with their collection.

3. Dilution of sortie rewards: Keeping in mind all variants of a weapon use the same riven ie: sybaris (dex, prime) there are currently 131 possible riven mods that can be rewarded from sorties for rifles, shotguns, and pistols. Adding melee rivens will add an additional 90 rivens to the drop table with that many mods getting the riven you want to drop will be even harder then it already is so you will have to trade either with your own rivens or for platinum.

4. Riven mods as a whole need improvements: DE seems to have given up on improving the system when we still have no control over what stats we can get on a riven, how many positives and negatives we can have, what mr they drop at, the value of the same stat can be different on the same riven with the same number of stats. Terrible weapons like the bronco are still not worth using with a riven. How many bad melee weapons can you think of, will a riven make it worth using?

I say all this because I want the game to be good and for both DE and the community to think about what they want melee rivens to accomplish.

Edited May 24, 2017 by (PS4)bullet1351
typo

[peterc3]

1. Rivens are explicitly outside the normal balance, they're extra.

2. Either a riven is useful to you or it isn't. Hoarding them does nothing.

3. Imagine that, trading something you don't want for something you do want.

4. You will never be able to choose the stats you get on a riven, you cannot know what DE is working on, perhaps the weapon isn't the problem.

[Ceryk]

1. Only if modded correctly. Plus melee involves more risk than using guns, so they need to make sure there's a compelling reason to actually use melee.

2. They're limited on purpose, you're not supposed to have a Riven for every weapon in the game, only the ones you like the most. I highly doubt I'll ever have 60.

3. They've stated they're going to start making Rivens acquired in other ways than just sorties due to dilution.

4. If we had control over it, EVERY Riven would be perfect. The point of Rivens is to give high level players another level of content and motivation to keep working on their favorite equipment. Besides, this is an RNG based game, not a crafting heavy game where we should have control over mods.

Edited May 24, 2017 by Ceryk

[AlphaPHENIX]

1. They may be more powerfull, but by the time you get into melee range your team has likely already killed the target

2. As if people are gona want rivens for that many of their weapons...nevermind

3. More income for DE

I just want a Riven for my Silva & Aegis (because screw the prime, I will deny it's existance till my last breath), is that really so bad?

Also, though this are side interest: Fang Prime, Gram, Anku, Destreza, Prova Vandal, Kogake, Scoliac, Pangolin Sword.

See? Some people don't care if they are op or not...ok ya let's be reall I am the only one.

[Ryme]

Agreed with OP. So many of the melee weapons are essentially reskins. Very few of them have any unique mechanics within their own melee type. If they are going to introduce melee rivens, I would ask that they generalize them affect a class of melee weapon, rather than specific weapon themselves.

[DSpite]

I hope people realize that Rivens were more or less an idea to have "Artifact" level Mods. That means also having limited amounts of Artifacts, hence limits on amounts of Rivens.

They were not meant to be the NEXT "must have thing" in ALL our weapons, but DE seemed to have caved once again and allowed extra slots via Plat.

Probably a good thing actually, to create the next cocaine in Mod form. Judging by the amounts of Riven junkies, it seems to be working.

PS: I also think the system looks waaay too similar to The Division re-roll idea.

 

Edited May 24, 2017 by DSpite

[(PSN)mr_chainsaw555]

37 minutes ago, (PS4)bullet1351 said:

How many bad melee weapons can you think of, will a riven make it worth using?

don't underestimate what rivens can do to strong disposition weapons, they worked wonders on my opticor, harpak, and acrid

 

 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

Gimmie my Melee Rivens :

1. Gimmie my Sarpa Riven

2. Gimmie my Redeemer Riven

3. Gimmie my Zenistar Riven

4. Gimmie my Ack and Brunt Riven

[(PSN)BlitzKeir]

From what I've gathered, sorties award rivens by class. It would be a 1/5 roll, and if you get a riven it's another roll of 1/4 (instead of the current 1/3), followed by a roll of 1/n (n being the number of weapons in the class). What this means is the odds of getting a rifle/shotgun/pistol riven are identical at 33.3~%, and will change to 25% when melee rivens is introduced.

I disagree that melee rivens will be too OP, for the same reasons that rifle/shotgun/secondary rivens turned out not to be after all the tweaks. It enabled many more weapons to effectively handle post-sortie content, while keeping the top-tier bar in roughly the same place. This is a very, very good thing for players who have nothing left to achieve.

As for changes to the rolling system...? Don't get your hopes up. Frankly, I'm surprised people ask. It's obvious from the design that DE was wary of treading too close to Diablo-esque mechanics. I don't necessarily think that'd be a bad thing, but they decided that's "not Warframe", and I would be stunned if they changed their minds. Besides, rivens are the last bastion of high-rolling traders. Much better for us and them than restricting high-price trading to exclusive vaulted items (on console, at least).

[MudShadow]

If they remove the scaling from the combo meter (or put a cap on it) then melee rivens might work. But if they continue to let all melee weapons scale at 2x/3x/4x damage and crit, and give them rivens on top. Then why use a ranged weapon? Because they're ranged? Doesn't really matter when frames can bullet jump into melee distance in one second. 

Edited May 25, 2017 by MudShadow

[blackheartstar_pc]

8 hours ago, AlphaPHENIX said:

See? Some people don't care if they are op or not...ok ya let's be reall I am the only one.

Nah there are plenty of us just have to look.

[Xzorn]

Melee as a whole is a Catch22 of sorts.

Once you actually need the extra damage melee provides, most frame's can't survive taking a hit at those level ranges to make use of it.

Even the Tankiest of frames can't really stay in melee past a certain point. So what's it good for? One-shot enemies that already die in a light breeze? Or a stealth only method of game play?

Anyone with a basic understanding of the damage system already knows that Rivens only half work at best. They help weapons like Khom or Torrid but they're never going to make Karak or Seer good weapons. The same will inevitably apply to Melee weapons.

Not to mention the entire process of Kuva and Riven acquisition is incredibly stale. Kuva farming is straight up, Boring.

Far as Sorties rewards.....

Spoiler

After my 44th Orokin Reactor; I'm just done doing them and it's only a matter of time before others follow suit. These are what I call "Dead-End-Items" Once you have enough, you can't do anything with them, you cant use them to get other things and you will eventually never actually use additional ones.

I could quit playing for 2 years and still never need an Orokin Reactor... That's not end-game rewards, end-game rewards have a renewable use within the game. That's what keeps you pushing into the system and trying to get what you want. Think if Diablo3 had no Cube or Crafting system and 90% of every drop just results in nothing. That's the system we're playing in with Sorties. Oh wait, except in Diablo3, least you could sell it for gold....

There are too many dead-end rewards on that table, doesn't really matter if they add more Rivens or not, it's still 90% worthless.