Request: More power cancellers

[cghawk]

why is this even being discussed? what's next a kubrow killer because some don't like seeing a kubrow running around the map? a weapon killer because you don't like allies using certain weapons? if you don't like seeing them then play solo or with friends and problem solved

''well I shouldn't be forced to play solo to enjoy the game'' and you aren't, you can play multiplayer and just deal with it because if multiplayer was made around what you and others ''liked'' and ''did not like'' then the only thing we would be walking around with is a bloody lato as a guard on 1 of those relay stations, so no abilities what so ever.

other shouldn't be punished for using their frame the way it's supposed to be used by some person who now has an ability canceler.

you worded your response well, YOUR enjoyment, but the enjoyment of 1 single person is irrelevant when it comes to a squad of 4, even more so when the whole problem can be avoided if you just play solo, with friends or ask in recruit for players not to bring certain frames.

 

I on the other hand find lots of enjoyment out of using limbo's stasis, so what makes your enjoyment worth more than mine? why should my enjoyment be taken away because it partially obstructs yours?

[Ryunokage]

12 minutes ago, cghawk said:

you worded your response well, YOUR enjoyment, but the enjoyment of 1 single person is irrelevant when it comes to a squad of 4, even more so when the whole problem can be avoided if you just play solo, with friends or ask in recruit for players not to bring certain frames.

I on the other hand find lots of enjoyment out of using limbo's stasis, so what makes your enjoyment worth more than mine? why should my enjoyment be taken away because it partially obstructs yours?

A power canceller is like a nuke and MAD works. 

if you ruin my fun, i have a means of ruining yours.

So either we place nice, or we don't play at all.

[IceColdHawk]

9 minutes ago, Ryunokage said:

So either we place nice, or we don't play at all.

Or we get rid of this "I'm a little princess and i deserve this and that" ego mentality. I've read this whole thread now and all i can say to help you is that you either get over yourself and work on your attitude or move on to games that suit you better. Because looking at your arguments, warframe doesn't look like the game for you, if you are not willing to accept that not everyone is playing according to your flute.

I understand the dislikes of 24/7 soundquaking and limbo stasis. But not because "muh preference" but because they remove a large part of gameplay. Which is pretty much worsening the games quality and overall enjoyment. Then again limbo being a special case here, seems to be a frame exclusively for communicating teams.

39 minutes ago, Ryunokage said:

I really don't care how the mag might feel or how efficient that player might be, if the map is so studded with magnetize fields that I can't get a single shot off. If the mag players refuse to be considerate, i'd like a means of forcing him to.

Now you complain about mag, who is just placing her magnetizes on enemies for AoE effectiveness (which is pretty much her only redeeming and scaling ability, mind you) simply because YOU can't pick off every single enemy on your own for ONCE? You act like you can literally contribute nothing at all which is so untrue. Pick off enemies outside of bubbles or actually have a cooperating mindset and fuel the bubbles for improved and synergized work. But no, gotta complain about a frame actually using abilities...

All this is like saying: "Hey DE, please introduce a frame color filter. I don't like the color green and thus i lose my enjoyment in pub games whenever i see green frames or weapons.". One last thing, if i can suggest you something based on your inexhaustible thirst for kills, you might enjoy Dynasty Warriors (if you're into fighting games) or even something like GTA. There are probably way more but these were 2 quick examples. Thing is, Warframe has been like that since ever. If you don't enjoy what warframe has to offer or how coop game works, then there is not much that DE can do, other than pleasing 1 person at the cost of screwing the rest, which won't happen.

[Sziklamester]

The problem in multiplayer and coop games in general the who kills more or whos using a certain ability or item which steal the kills from me. In this meaning killing - fun, stealing (others kill) - no fun. Hard to balance these issues because the 4x times spawn supposed to solve the kill thing but often not solve it because others can kill my specific spawned mobs what I supposed to kill. The one and only solution is not the removal of abilities or items, or cancelling abilities but the ability transparency and make the abilities not affect at all your game. With this you solve a problem because you can kill your mobs but with the transparency you just made a new problem because the abilities not affect you anymore then buffs, debuffs, aoe, cc abilities won't help the 2 other person because the abilities not affect them in any way so basically you play single with 3 others you are just in the same instance but the others playing their own game aswell. They can ton down abilities but that still will cause annoyance and salt to the user and others and always will be peoples whom cry in everything. In a coop game you can only solve this with premade groups and with friends-clan mates playing together but the pubs are totally random. 

And yep I know that is not a solution to say play solo, or just leave a mission or other leave the mission because everyone came here to have fun and for your money or time you wish to had some fun. It is your right like others have the rights to have fun with their choice.

The keyword is tolerance and search for peoples with the similar playstyle / interest this is how I found in game my girlfriend. 

Many many times when I see an Ember with Wof on lower level my pain level increased but afterall it is just a game and her abilities will stop in a certain point and then my times come. The level and frame should not be a discriminative thing and every frame could be synerized with the right team work but currently the above what I suggested the solution.

[Airwolfen]

More and more this one sentence comes into my mind.

"ikke, ikke, ikke, en de rest kan stikke"

Or translated

"me, me, me, and the rest can choke"
(does not sound as catchy)

Its related to narcissism. It shows as you have absolutely no empathy for all the players who would be negatively impacted by this just so long you can have your semi solo experience.

Welcome to Co-op games.

[Azamagon]

No thanks.

A better thing to do is fix abilities so they aren't so team-unfriendly.

Stasis, for example;

• Now only pauses allied projectiles for 2 seconds, and no longer has a projectile cap. This means that Limbos cannot troll teammates nearly as much, nor can teammates troll the Limbo.
• A new penalty added instead (for LIMBO only). Note; Only ONE penalty would be added:
  • Penalty idea 1 - Base cost reduced to 25, but each new enemy which gets affected by Stasis by any means, Limbo will suffer a mild energycost (say, somewhere between 3 to 5 energy  per enemy? Affected by Power Efficiency of course). If you can't pay for it, that enemy won't be affected, that is, until you get enough energy to pay for it, then the cost will occur and the enemy will be affected by the remaining duration of Stasis. Note: If an enemy is constantly frozen and unfrozen via Cataclysm's shrinking wall, it will NOT pay energy each time, only the first time. However, recasting Stasis will require ALL enemies to have to repay their individual costs again.
  • Penalty idea 2 - Cost is always a flat 50 energy. However, the more enemies are affected by Stasis, the quicker its duration will tick down. (This is probably the easier one to implement)
    
    Either penalty is meant for his energy-passive to exist; He needs to kill to get energy -> Stasis costs a lot of energy if he doesn't kill quickly (be it by direct energycosts via penalty 1, or by constant need to refresh a quickly time-depleting Stasis via penalty 2, either of the suggested penalties fullfil that synergy).

Snow Globe is not nearly as "trolly" as Stasis, but something that could be done; Make punchthrough (even just 0,1m) make any projectile pierce the snowglobe. This adds some more ally-QoL to an ability that can already be circumvented by changing your positioning.

Ripline should pull Valkyr to the ally, not vice versa.

Switch Teleport should grant a massive damage-reduction to a swapped ally, for a brief moment (baseline, it shouldn't need its augment to feel less trolly), making a trolly swap far more endurable (and possibly even opens up new teamplay tactics). Including buffing his own swapped Decoy, perhaps?

Any other ability you guys can think of that are potentially very trolly?

Edited May 29, 2017 by Azamagon

[Vivian]

And then, assimilate takes friendly fire again... 

[Ryunokage]

@IceColdHawk

To your first point:

1. My money, my machine, my bandwidth, my time. If i don't get a return on my investment(ie fun), all those resources are wasted.
2. Ideally everyone should play in a manner where we don't step on each other's toes.
3. A lot of players don't care about who toes they might step on.
4. A power canceller or more power cancellers merely means i have a means of blowing up the feet of anyone who might trod on mine.

To your second point. I refer to my prior post:

-----------

I tend to regard several components as being crucial to my enjoyment of warframe:

1. The tension of danger
2. Ability to respond
3. A minimum threshold of competence required to achieve success.
4. A low threshold for a failure condition

-----------

Also: The mag's magnetise isn't something so easily avoided in something like defence maps, where spaces are constrained and moving away from said mag is not a viable option, especially if it should mean leaving the objective undefended. And to the 2nd, I'd like to claim that i could, but i favour bows and sniper rifles, on those rare occasions i do the bulk of the killing with that loadout, there's something fundamentally wrong with my squad's level of intelligence and capacity.

@Airwolfen

Of course, if i should approach my housemates, ask them not to carry on loud phone conversations right next to my room and they refuse. I'm not going to sit there and just put up with their inane idiosyncrasies without complaint. I'm going to go buy a bunch of plasma globes and create a jerry-rigged cell-phone and wireless jammer.

In the same manner, if i should find myself beset by people who for reasons of competence or preference, cheese the game session with a limbo's stasis. I'm going to start spamming staticor shots and force stasis to collapse.

A power canceller merely spares me from having to make such creative efforts to achieve the same ends. 

@Azamagon

Other "trolly" abilities:

Soundquake-banshee. WoF-ember. 

[Azamagon]

6 minutes ago, Ryunokage said:

 

@Azamagon

Other "trolly" abilities:

Soundquake-banshee. WoF-ember. 

Soundquake - Sure, it can be quite trolly due to its massive range CC and fairly low damage, but it can also be beneficial due to that (When killing is not necessary). That said, imo her ulti needs a complete replacement, as I don't see how it really fits her sniper-esque style very well. Look here for ideas: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/799561-banhee-tweaks-and-brainstorming/

WoF - Huh? How is WoF trolly? Kill-stealer on low/medium levels, sure. But how is it trolly? Imo, WoF is helpful (sure, maybe in a boring way, but I digress). That is unless you think that you HAVE to share kills fairly evenly? It could need some tweaks so it's a bit less ez-mode, sure (require line of sight and such?), but its problems are not related to trolling whatsoever (Not imo at least).

Edited May 29, 2017 by Azamagon

[Vox_Preliator]

9 minutes ago, Ryunokage said:

1. My money, my machine, my bandwidth, my time. If i don't get a return on my investment(ie fun), all those resources are wasted.
2. Ideally everyone should play in a manner where we don't step on each other's toes.
3. A lot of players don't care about who toes they might step on.
4. A power canceller or more power cancellers merely means i have a means of blowing up the feet of anyone who might trod on mine.

1.  Their money, their machine, their bandwidth, their time.  What makes them so much less important than you?  You're not even talking about intentional trolls, you're pissing about regular players playing regularly in a way you don't like in a public game.

2.  True.  Yet your definition of "not stepping on toes" seems to be making it so that you can play however you want while the other three players can sit on their hands and not bother you.

3.  You mean like you?

4.  What about if you trod on someone else's toes?  Because that is literally exactly what you're doing when you cancel powers.

[Ryunokage]

6 minutes ago, Azamagon said:

WoF - Huh? How is WoF trolly? Kill-stealer on low/medium levels, sure. But how is it trolly? Imo, WoF is helpful (sure, maybe in a boring way, but I digress). That is unless you think that you HAVE to share kills fairly evenly? It could need some tweaks so it's a bit less ez-mode, sure (require line of sight and such?), but its problems are not related to trolling whatsoever (Not imo at least).

It turns the game into a walking simulator, removes all potential for failure in the game session, never mind that it also wipes the map clean of enemies as the ember runs past. I can barely get a handful of kills in an exterminate with one of these around and only because i'm zipping across the map as quickly as I can and letting off shots mid air to not waste time. Its not so glaringly obvious at higher levels certainly, where it's kill power certainly falls off.

However, it is often paired with high status % weapons, like the Ignis, and the Growing Power aura mod. That goes a long way to extending its viability into higher levels.

@Vox_Preliator

Then we find ourselves in a situation of MAD. Either we all agree not to step on each other's toes and come to a compromise, or the guy who'se getting dumped upon, uses his power cancellers and ruins everyone's day.

[StinkyPygmy]

3 hours ago, Ryunokage said:

Mate, if you give most people the option of sitting on their arses, or getting back at the fellow spoiling their fun. They'd go with option 2 most of the time, i'd break out the torture kit.

@StinkyPygmy

The issue isn't isolated to the limbo however. It does need some context though so...

I tend to regard several components as being crucial to my enjoyment of warframe:

1. The tension of danger
2. Ability to respond
3. A minimum threshold of competence required to achieve success.
4. A low threshold for a failure condition

While the limbo's stasis knocks out all 4 of these features, other abilities do the same by knocking off one of those 4 conditions. So I regard stasis in the same vein as banshee's soundquake or a macro-spamming atterax user. In both cases, having one of them removes one of the conditions I regard as being inseparable from enjoyment.

This is not hard to achieve, giving me a set of powers that i can use to cancel out abilities or effects is a very effective means of allowing me to regain control and enjoyment of the game session.

Else, toxicity is admittedly something I am entirely unconcerned with. I view any person who impinges on my fun in anyway, as being toxic, whatever the reason may be. I'm perfectly fine ruining someone else fun if they should ruin mine.

 

 

 

So basically your issue is that players are too powerful as you could argue almost every frame in the game has a power or two that ruins your list. I'm not saying thats false, but that plays into another issue entirely of the old scaling wall conundrum and DE's resistance at introducing mechanically interesting enemies and diminishing returns on powers etc. Something completely separate from your initial issue which is in no way going to be fixed by anything you have suggested.

Honestly, its been like that since pretty much day one and what you want to do is rip out what is a fundamental component of WF as a game and replace it with absolutely nothing useful or good for the players and DE. I can think of a million ways to help solve or at least alleviate what seems to be your real issue that are, if not out right beneficial, at the very least not harmful like what you are suggesting. I'm not trying to sound rude here, but if this is how you view WF then it seems that you have somehow got this idea that WF is a very different game to what it currently is. I'll happily debate with someone as to whether or not WF is a horde shooter or whatever other possible genre/style it fits into, as that is at least up for debate and influences what mechanics DE should/shouldn't introduce. This however kind of blows my mind. The double standard is real bruh.

Might as well add a Tl;DR to the OP saying:"I should be able to play how I want and absolutely no one else's enjoyment matters. If you hinder that in anyway, intentional or not, then you are wrong. I'm more important".

The long and the short of it is: "some people abuse powers/I don't know how to work around some powers or how they work, so I should be able to ruin other peoples fun and uproot the game as a whole". That just makes zero sense to me. No, really. Its kind of surreal you think this is a good idea in any form. Of all the things anyone could suggest to tweak and move things along in this department, this is by fare the most outlandish and ridiculous idea I have ever read.

With all due respect OP, you are actually insane.

Edited May 29, 2017 by StinkyPygmy
Elaborated

[Ryunokage]

43 minutes ago, StinkyPygmy said:

So basically your issue is that players are too powerful as you could argue almost every frame in the game has a power or two that ruins your list. I'm not saying thats false, but that plays into another issue entirely of the old scaling wall conundrum and DE's resistance at introducing mechanically interesting enemies and diminishing returns on powers etc. Something completely separate from your initial issue which is in no way going to be fixed by anything you have suggested.

Honestly, its been like that since pretty much day one and what you want to do is rip out what is a fundamental component of WF as a game and replace it with absolutely nothing useful or good for the players and DE. I can think of a million ways to help solve or at least alleviate what seems to be your real issue that are, if not out right beneficial, at the very least not harmful like what you are suggesting. I'm not trying to sound rude here, but if this is how you view WF then it seems that you have somehow got this idea that WF is a very different game to what it currently is. I'll happily debate with someone as to whether or not WF is a horde shooter or whatever other possible genre/style it fits into, as that is at least up for debate and influences what mechanics DE should/shouldn't introduce. This however kind of blows my mind. The double standard is real bruh.

Might as well add a Tl;DR to the OP saying:"I should be able to play how I want and absolutely no one else's enjoyment matters. If you hinder that in anyway, intentional or not, then you are wrong. I'm more important".

The long and the short of it is: "some people abuse powers/I don't know how to work around some powers or how they work, so I should be able to ruin other peoples fun and uproot the game as a whole". That just makes zero sense to me. No, really. Its kind of surreal you think this is a good idea in any form. Of all the things anyone could suggest to tweak and move things along in this department, this is by fare the most outlandish and ridiculous idea I have ever read.

With all due respect OP, you are actually insane.

I don't disagree with the idea that warframe is a horde shooter, it certainly is. I just joined warframe at a time where even fully equipped players with maxed gear could still risk getting over-run and killed if they were careless. Back then the only AoE weapon around was the Ogris, and the majority of people ran about with boltors or paris primes/dread.

Between then and now, DE's added a good number of weapons and warframes that lowered the bar as far as a minimum threshold of skill was concerned. And while i don't begrudge people who aren't possessed of the requisite measure of intelligence or coordinating to pull off something fancy, i do take umbrage with how DE has essentially enabled even the incompetent to be overwhelmingly powerful in warframe, even to the point where it impairs the experience of everyone else around.

More-over these are are options available to anyone whatever their level of competence might be, hence their widespread use. I have no issues at all, if the OP builds and overwhelmingly powerful load outs required an IQ in the 140s and the coordination of a brain surgeon to achieve, simply because these people are so few and far between that you'd very very rarely see it. But the OP load outs are so easy to use, that they are more or less something you can count on running into then not.

2nd:

It might be more appropriate to say "I expect a reasonable degree of consideration from other people around me, if you should behave in any manner that I might deem to be impinging upon my own enjoyment to a degree that i'm lose all pleasure in what i'm doing, I want a means of immediate retaliation and redress."

Going on from that, there are no powers and abilities that I do not know a means of working around. Some of them however have no work arounds, if you have a WoF-ember with an ignis with the Growing Power aura and speed/agility mods, there is no way I can out race that player on a slower frame. Or if I get stuck with a sound quake banshee on a small defense map, i cannot do anything to score any kills at all because soundquake strikes enemies dead the moment they spawn.

Power cancellers are a work around, not the best ideally, but given DE's pace of addressing such exploitative builds, you can't reasonably expect them to respond in a time-frame that is going to allow them to keep up with how quickly new exploits emerge.

Edit:

To the insanity remark, i'm not sure whether you understand the definition of the world, are trying to be insulting, or else are using it as a form of hyperbole.

However, i'd like to point out that simply because I am willing to resort to measures that other people might shy from, does not make my argument's rational any less logical. There are a lot of things out there that the average person has no stomach to do, but fulfils a necessary function in society anyway. For example, i spent a good bit of time cutting and tugging open holes in the bellies of conscious, aware and sometimes terrified women.

A task for which I was and still am held in some regard for, however much pain and suffering it brought to the women whom I inflicted it on.

They're called cesarean sections, and as you might imagine, they're performed on women at term who may sometimes have complications in delivery that require an immediate response.

Edited May 29, 2017 by Ryunokage

[JPQaZuMBi]

1 hour ago, Ryunokage said:

I don't disagree with the idea that warframe is a horde shooter, it certainly is. I just joined warframe at a time where even fully equipped players with maxed gear could still risk getting over-run and killed if they were careless. Back then the only AoE weapon around was the Ogris, and the majority of people ran about with boltors or paris primes/dread.

Between then and now, DE's added a good number of weapons and warframes that lowered the bar as far as a minimum threshold of skill was concerned. And while i don't begrudge people who aren't possessed of the requisite measure of intelligence or coordinating to pull off something fancy, i do take umbrage with how DE has essentially enabled even the incompetent to be overwhelmingly powerful in warframe, even to the point where it impairs the experience of everyone else around.

More-over these are are options available to anyone whatever their level of competence might be, hence their widespread use. I have no issues at all, if the OP builds and overwhelmingly powerful load outs required an IQ in the 140s and the coordination of a brain surgeon to achieve, simply because these people are so few and far between that you'd very very rarely see it. But the OP load outs are so easy to use, that they are more or less something you can count on running into then not.

2nd:

It might be more appropriate to say "I expect a reasonable degree of consideration from other people around me, if you should behave in any manner that I might deem to be impinging upon my own enjoyment to a degree that i'm lose all pleasure in what i'm doing, I want a means of immediate retaliation and redress."

Going on from that, there are no powers and abilities that I do not know a means of working around. Some of them however have no work arounds, if you have a WoF-ember with an ignis with the Growing Power aura and speed/agility mods, there is no way I can out race that player on a slower frame. Or if I get stuck with a sound quake banshee on a small defense map, i cannot do anything to score any kills at all because soundquake strikes enemies dead the moment they spawn.

Power cancellers are a work around, not the best ideally, but given DE's pace of addressing such exploitative builds, you can't reasonably expect them to respond in a time-frame that is going to allow them to keep up with how quickly new exploits emerge.

Edit:

To the insanity remark, i'm not sure whether you understand the definition of the world, are trying to be insulting, or else are using it as a form of hyperbole.

However, i'd like to point out that simply because I am willing to resort to measures that other people might shy from, does not make my argument's rational any less logical. There are a lot of things out there that the average person has no stomach to do, but fulfils a necessary function in society anyway. For example, i spent a good bit of time cutting and tugging open holes in the bellies of conscious, aware and sometimes terrified women.

A task for which I was and still am held in some regard for, however much pain and suffering it brought to the women whom I inflicted it on.

They're called cesarean sections, and as you might imagine, they're performed on women at term who may sometimes have complications in delivery that require an immediate response.

Man I have gotta say, I have probably seen all types of players, however I never seen someone with a level of entitlement such as yours.

Let me give you a tutorial to solve those problems here in Warframe.
 

Step 0 - Start Warframe

Step 1 - Insert your login details

Step 2 - Press Esc

Step 3 - Click on the Top Left Corner

Step 4 - Play Solo

Step 5 - Grofit

No Grofit? No Problem:

Step 6 - Exit the game

Step 7 - Deep breath 10 times

Step 8 - Repeat from Step 0

Still no grofit?

Step 9 - Uninstall the game

Step 10 - Go install a single play game, preferably sandbox, with cheat mode, or Debug mode.

 

Jokes aside here, your arguments are about the same level as those who complain how unfair life is. Listen, you play an online game where dozens of people experience the game simultaneously, where there are different preferences for anyone, and different goals, and interactions. So it is quite normal that many times you are going to find players that in someway ruin your experience through trolling, flaming, abandoning games, not letting you collect relics on time, etc... These are really annoying, but its normal, as normal as the guy who leaves trashcan on your door and forgets to put the lid on. 

What you are suggesting here, however is beyond ridiculous, requesting that mechanics are introduced so you somehow have full control of your enjoyment, in reality you already have (though limited into what the game offers). And its funny that you talk about other people behaving in a manner that only you find it correct.

Yet what are you suggesting (like many others already replied here) is having mechanics that allow you to have fun at the cost of other players fun. 

See your level of entitlement here? I don't care when you say you expect a reasonable degree of consideration from other people around you, when you give these types of suggestions, I even bet with you, if those mechanics actually existed, you would be one of those that would always ruin other players experience in benefit of your own. 

You just seem like those that would punch a dude because you don't like is face.

Problems exists, but Warframe is imperfect, people are imperfect, the internet is imperfect, just like life.

Attitudes however can be changed, with time but it can be changed, starting with yours, by acknowledging, that you can't control everything, unless you play a single player game, or are a GM in an online game which, tada!!!! are usually known to be rubbish by ruining the experience of others (Private servers from other games). You spoke about doing caesarean sections, so I assume you are a surgeon, as a surgeon you should know these things best, yet you are revealing to be the complete opposite, when it comes to understanding online game interactions.


These are my 2 cents. And feel free to reply to me and try to burn me on a stake, our pointing any faults in my arguments, because I also have defects, and thus imperfect. But ask yourself this question. 

"If I were in the shoes of those players who ruin my game experience, would I be any different?"

Cheers and have fun.

Edited May 29, 2017 by JPQaZuMBi
Grammar fix number 1

[--Q--WaffleZ]

If it's done right, not just blatantly cancel our skill just by looking at us.  We want more enemy interaction with warframe skill, not just only cancel or immune to the skills.
(e.g. A new shield bearing grineer who can deflect a projectile based power back.  An infested which can moult when hit with an AOE skill base to be less susceptible to the skill.)

[Ryunokage]

3 minutes ago, JPQaZuMBi said:

Jokes aside here, your arguments are about the same level as those who complain how unfair life is. Listen, you play an online game where dozens of people experience the game simultaneously, where there are different preferences for anyone, and different goals, and interactions. So it is quite normal that many times you are going to find players that in someway ruin your experience through trolling, flaming, abandoning games, not letting you collect relics on time, etc... These are really annoying, but its normal, as normal as the guy who leaves trashcan on your door and forgets to put the lid on. 

What you are suggesting here, however is beyond ridiculous, requesting that mechanics are introduced so you somehow have full control of your enjoyment, in reality you already have (though limited into what the game offers). And its funny that you talk about other people behaving in a manner that only you find it correct.

Yet what are you suggesting (like many others already replied here) is having mechanics that allow you to have fun at the cost of other players fun. 

See your level of entitlement here? I don't care when you say you expect a reasonable degree of consideration from other people around you, when you give these types of suggestions, I even bet with you, if those mechanics actually existed, you would be one of those that would always ruin other players experience in benefit of your own. 

You just seem like those that would punch a dude because you don't like is face.

Problems exists, but Warframe is imperfect, people are imperfect, the internet is imperfect, just like life.

Attitudes however can be changed, with time but it can be changed, starting with yours, by acknowledging, that you can't control everything, unless you play a single player game, or are a GM in an online game which, tada!!!! are usually known to be rubbish by ruining the experience of others (Private servers from other games). You spoke about doing caesarean sections, so I assume you are a surgeon, as a surgeon you should know these things best, yet you are revealing to be the complete opposite, when it comes to understanding online game interactions.


These are my 2 cents. And feel free to reply to me and try to burn me on a stake, our pointing any faults in my arguments, because I also have defects, and thus imperfect. But ask yourself this question. 

"If I were in the shoes of those players who ruin my game experience, would I be any different?"

Cheers and have fun.

1. I'm not in the habit of being content with complaining if i find myself in a situation that i find untenable. As a general rule of thumb, I will always seek to force the environment and everyone in it, into compliance with a set of norms. When those norms do not suit me, i will find a niche that will. If it continues to be that DE remains in this vein of pandering to the lowest common denominator, I will leave. However DE's decision to rework often abused weapons recently have given me cause to wait and hope that they might effect positive change.

2. What I am suggesting is implementing mechanics that force other players into compromise. Giving tools to individuals who are unhappy with the situation, especially if they happen to be the host, or have otherwise already reached mid-mission, merely gives them a measure of power that both parties might negotiate from positions of equal strength. Where before I might have to choose between leaving and depending entirely on the goodwill of the other player, something that is vanishingly rare given that the region in which i play is entirely devoid of judeo-christian value systems that you in the west might take for granted, I would now have something to wield over their head.

3. The suggestion that using a power canceller puts total power in the hands of the person who uses it is a contrivance. Keep in mind that a power canceller would be available to everyone, there's nothing to stop the other player from using his power canceller in equal measure to break my own use of abilities and confine me to guns and melee. Something that would prove fatal in certain game modes. And i'm trusting in that the vast majority of people out there will recognise that coming to a compromise is preferential to wasting all the time and effort spent to reach any given point.

4. No, if ever I do hit a person, its going to be because its the most expedient method available to solve a given problem. Incidentally, I don't punch a person in the face, you're sooner going to break the bones in your hand then someone's face.

5. Attitude do not change, nor have the norms of human behaviour, barring what influences that value systems and beliefs have conferred. Screwing over the people around you to achieve a goal for yourself is far from a new trend, hence the imposition of the rule of law and a judicial system to maintain structure and order. These are all external impositions that supersede human norms. 

6. What I am asking for is a stick to compel anyone who sees to force their mediocrity on me to think twice before acting.

7. Your attempt to equate me to other people is misinformed. I know for a fact that I am different and that I am better, I am always willing to compromise if a convincing argument is made. None of you have made convincing arguments. There are multiple examples of insults in the responses above, whether snide, implicit or like yours, plain for all to see.

[JPQaZuMBi]

3 minutes ago, Ryunokage said:

1. I'm not in the habit of being content with complaining if i find myself in a situation that i find untenable. As a general rule of thumb, I will always seek to force the environment and everyone in it, into compliance with a set of norms. When those norms do not suit me, i will find a niche that will. If it continues to be that DE remains in this vein of pandering to the lowest common denominator, I will leave. However DE's decision to rework often abused weapons recently have given me cause to wait and hope that they might effect positive change.

2. What I am suggesting is implementing mechanics that force other players into compromise. Giving tools to individuals who are unhappy with the situation, especially if they happen to be the host, or have otherwise already reached mid-mission, merely gives them a measure of power that both parties might negotiate from positions of equal strength. Where before I might have to choose between leaving and depending entirely on the goodwill of the other player, something that is vanishingly rare given that the region in which i play is entirely devoid of judeo-christian value systems that you in the west might take for granted, I would now have something to wield over their head.

3. The suggestion that using a power canceller puts total power in the hands of the person who uses it is a contrivance. Keep in mind that a power canceller would be available to everyone, there's nothing to stop the other player from using his power canceller in equal measure to break my own use of abilities and confine me to guns and melee. Something that would prove fatal in certain game modes. And i'm trusting in that the vast majority of people out there will recognise that coming to a compromise is preferential to wasting all the time and effort spent to reach any given point.

4. No, if ever I do hit a person, its going to be because its the most expedient method available to solve a given problem. Incidentally, I don't punch a person in the face, you're sooner going to break the bones in your hand then someone's face.

5. Attitude do not change, nor have the norms of human behaviour, barring what influences that value systems and beliefs have conferred. Screwing over the people around you to achieve a goal for yourself is far from a new trend, hence the imposition of the rule of law and a judicial system to maintain structure and order. These are all external impositions that supersede human norms. 

6. What I am asking for is a stick to compel anyone who sees to force their mediocrity on me to think twice before acting.

7. Your attempt to equate me to other people is misinformed. I know for a fact that I am different and that I am better, I am always willing to compromise if a convincing argument is made. None of you have made convincing arguments. There are multiple examples of insults in the responses above, whether snide, implicit or like yours, plain for all to see.

Well, if you still gonna see things this way, then believe me, you are going to have a bad time on the internet, and maybe in life, actually it might be likely you already had terrible experiences in life that makes you have this "terrible" attitude, I won't argue there, and no judgements either. After all this is a forum where strangers and friends debate all the time. Though I must say, I don't know if I should be flattered by you saying I insulted you, or actually feel insulted just like you. But I mean, you being the entitled person you are, what did you expect by suggesting those "changes" in a forum? What do you expect when you yourself state you are different and better than others? Are you an alien? Do you have omnipowers where you can judge people with 110% accuracy? Through the internet? 

Just look at history and read about the people that thought the same like you, let me know who they were, and where they are now...

There is beautiful in life, as there is ugly, some see only the beautiful, others only see bad. Then there are ones that see both, and the ones which are ignorant. 

I sincerely hope you reconsider your attitude towards people and the realities of life though.
 

Cheers.



 

[Ryunokage]

2 minutes ago, JPQaZuMBi said:

Well, if you still gonna see things this way, then believe me, you are going to have a bad time on the internet, and maybe in life, actually it might be likely you already had terrible experiences in life that makes you have this "terrible" attitude, I won't argue there, and no judgements either. After all this is a forum where strangers and friends debate all the time. Though I must say, I don't know if I should be flattered by you saying I insulted you, or actually feel insulted just like you. But I mean, you being the entitled person you are, what did you expect by suggesting those "changes" in a forum? What do you expect when you yourself state you are different and better than others? Are you an alien? Do you have omnipowers where you can judge people with 110% accuracy? Through the internet? 

Just look at history and read about the people that thought the same like you, let me know who they were, and where they are now...

There is beautiful in life, as there is ugly, some see only the beautiful, others only see bad. Then there are ones that see both, and the ones which are ignorant. 

I sincerely hope you reconsider your attitude towards people and the realities of life though.
 

Cheers.

1. If being "good" is to be "harmless", then you are correct in describing me as "terrible" in that I am dangerous, however civilised I may be. 

2. As my argument in the prior post, you have presented a moral platitude and a plain insult, rather then a reasoned argument.

3. I don't have to be 100% correct, complete accuracy isn't my concern. I'm happy to throw good out with the bad.

4. Other people who thought in the same vein: Winston Churchill, who argued that the german nazi party should have been deposed even prior to the outbreak of world war 2. Franklin D Roosevelt, American Statesman and later president, who despite the public desire for isolation, recognised the danger of the Axis nations, and skirted the law with the Lend Lease Act. Nicollo Machiavelli, author of "The Prince". Sun Tzu: Author of "The Art of War". Other individuals can be found in history, almost exclusively statemen of people who held heavy responsibilities. Pacifist leaders and nations rarely remain pacifistic.

5. I don't care what or how you feel, I care about what your argument is.

[JPQaZuMBi]

33 minutes ago, Ryunokage said:

1. If being "good" is to be "harmless", then you are correct in describing me as "terrible" in that I am dangerous, however civilised I may be. 

2. As my argument in the prior post, you have presented a moral platitude and a plain insult, rather then a reasoned argument.

3. I don't have to be 100% correct, complete accuracy isn't my concern. I'm happy to throw good out with the bad.

4. Other people who thought in the same vein: Winston Churchill, who argued that the german nazi party should have been deposed even prior to the outbreak of world war 2. Franklin D Roosevelt, American Statesman and later president, who despite the public desire for isolation, recognised the danger of the Axis nations, and skirted the law with the Lend Lease Act. Nicollo Machiavelli, author of "The Prince". Sun Tzu: Author of "The Art of War". Other individuals can be found in history, almost exclusively statemen of people who held heavy responsibilities. Pacifist leaders and nations rarely remain pacifistic.

5. I don't care what or how you feel, I care about what your argument is.

Oh wow, you actually did what I asked, impressive... But the thing that made all those be who they are, is the comprehension and understanding of what surrounded them and what they could do to in their eyes "and I agree" make it better, and none of those were incomprehensible to the people around them were they? Though to be honest, I don't know Nicollo Machiavelli so excuse my ignorance.

You on the other hand sound like a a typical dictator... And yes I mean it... You know why? Example: Dictators always say the opposition do not have reasonable arguments ;)

 

Also, I never mentioned or questioned your morality, only your attitude. 

This was fun and all but its time to "Let it gooooo!"  keep beating these posts if that suits you and makes you feel better.

Until next time, if there is one ;)

Edited May 29, 2017 by JPQaZuMBi
That escalated quickly xD

[DxAdder]

9 hours ago, Ryunokage said:

As the title states, i'd like to ask for DE to provide us with a wider variety of options that allow players to cancel each other powers. In the same vein that using the Staticor or Pox allows us to cancel a limbo's stasis, if a player were to otherwise force passivity among anyone in his squad by using that combination.

I understand that it wasn't a deliberate decision on DE's part, but i still find that equipping a Staticor in my secondary is just too useful in certain map types to not bring one, especially if it means nixing any cheese right from the outset. This has however limited my load-outs and prevents me from using other fun and challenging weapons instead, like the euphona or aklex prime. An especially glaring concern now that we have combo-equipping on the horizon.

In either case, I'd like to ask for an expansion of such devices that give the option for other players to immediately kill off any other similarly cheesed builds, and prevent other players from forcing us to disengage and become passive spectators during games. Preferably something that fits into the inventory and is readily spammable.

This would only happen in a PUG and the reality is if you don't want to make friends or join a clan than things like this can happen.

Asking DE to spend money and development time to make PUG's fun for everyone is a waste of time.

 

 

[Sarge_Tarmus]

9 hours ago, Ryunokage said:

As the title states, i'd like to ask for DE to provide us with a wider variety of options that allow players to cancel each other powers. In the same vein that using the Staticor or Pox allows us to cancel a limbo's stasis, if a player were to otherwise force passivity among anyone in his squad by using that combination.

I understand that it wasn't a deliberate decision on DE's part, but i still find that equipping a Staticor in my secondary is just too useful in certain map types to not bring one, especially if it means nixing any cheese right from the outset. This has however limited my load-outs and prevents me from using other fun and challenging weapons instead, like the euphona or aklex prime. An especially glaring concern now that we have combo-equipping on the horizon.

In either case, I'd like to ask for an expansion of such devices that give the option for other players to immediately kill off any other similarly cheesed builds, and prevent other players from forcing us to disengage and become passive spectators during games. Preferably something that fits into the inventory and is readily spammable.

No. This could be expert trolling weapon, that could cancel the exalted weaponry, healing effects, or scarab armor/iron skin. I disagree.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

no way, cancelling each other's powers constantly would lead to nothing but trolling or abuse. it's a terrible idea.

[Kusungphak]

Completely unacceptable. Power to cancel skills like chaos, bastille, wof, molecular prime... omg...

Here is what is going to happen. If DE implements your asinine suggestion I will start to put every single player who does it in my ignore list and will probably have a list as big as Baro's ego. 

 

[Ryunokage]

2 minutes ago, Kusungphak said:

Completely unacceptable. Power to cancel skills like chaos, bastille, wof, molecular prime... omg...

Here is what is going to happen. If DE implements your asinine suggestion I will start to put every single player who does it in my ignore list and will probably have a list as big as Baro's ego. 

 

It stands to reason that other players are going to recognise this, and only pull out a power canceller if they should chance upon someone who is doing something that irrevocably damages their game experience.

Chaos, bastille, molecular prime, these are all abilities that help, rather then hinder gameplay. I see little reason for them to use a canceller in the face of those skills, since it does not force passivity on them as compared to WoF, Stasis or soundquake.

[Wiz3rd]

So all I could gather from this thread is that OP is narcisstic, cannot possibly bear other people having fun THEIR way, and is overall ignorant, trying to sound all intelligent and refined without realising no one wants to hear his elitist remarks.

 

To sum it up:

1. Leave stasis as is or make allies be able to shoot inside of it.

2. Use solo matchmaking when you get "triggered" this hard.

3. Quit the game. It's been suggested already, but if you don't enjoy football, stop playing it, you can't just expect others to handicap themselves for your enjoyment. Same goes for Warframe. Maybe this game just isn't for you?