Why There Will be No Veterans In a Year Time (read orig. post)

[AperoBeltaTwo]

1 minute ago, Darkvramp said:

ok i dont want void 1.0 to come back, it lead to my first break, in which i have take 4. I wish that the fissure missions were more challenging, and had more variety, like adding to the corrupted enemy roster, or making like a random occurrence of a corrupted supersquad/boss. just something. void 1.0 was flawed, it kept you doing the same content over and over again in a single tileset. at least now we have a differing tileset use. we are still doing the same content, but that is warframe for you. War frame needs to take a few chapters from left 4 dead and the killing floor, with the end of the rotation bosses or something. Also they need to make the random bosses more controllable, not with the stupid expendable gears slot items every 2 weeks.

You'd love an endless raid.

--Signing out.

Edited June 2, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[Darkvramp]

3 minutes ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

You just don't like the answers, is why we are goin in circles. 

locking something behind a timer is never a good thing, if you have to it probably means what is behind it is sooo easy to acquire , and without the timer, you would have an endless amount of it.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

1 minute ago, Darkvramp said:

locking something behind a timer is never a good thing, if you have to it probably means what is behind it is sooo easy to acquire , and without the timer, you would have an endless amount of it.

Agreed , but I understand it's purpose. 

[Vox_Preliator]

2 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

And Warframe almost died right after the release (technically the game is still in beta but whatever). It's the community feedback, money and a lot of effort on DE's part that saved the game back then. I imagine there was a lot of "everything is fine" people back then. If DE were to listen to those people, Warframe wouldn't have existed today. That's a fact. 

You're gonna have to explain how that's relevant to this discussion.

Ever thought that maybe I can be confident it's not dying while also acknowledging that there are flaws that badly need fixing? 

I'm not saying "everything is fine," I'm saying "You are accomplishing absolutely nothing with this topic, your statements are circular in reasoning, you lack any significant or noteworthy evidence, you act as though everyone who does not agree with your viewpoint are inherently wrong and their arguments dismissable, and any productive discussion that could have arisen from a thread about the lack of endgame and how Raids or Fissures could be repurposed into a proper one (Of which there have been plenty, and nearly always end the same way: 'Ask ten players what endgame should be and you get eleven distinct answers') was thrown out the window the moment you started due to the aforementioned reasons."

Edited June 2, 2017 by Vox_Preliator

[Dreddeth]

"The sky is falling! The sky is falling!"

There may be a day when I take vapid doomsaying seriously...

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

I play alone and with publics usually. Only one in my clan still playing really. Love this game... Hope it never ends. I'll turn 40 this year... Hope its still around when im 50... Ill still be playing.

Cant do endless... Cant hold my bladder past 35 waves or 30 or so minutes lol

[Somb3rBivalve]

I mean, I still have fun when I play this game though admittedly it's not as much fun as I used to have. In regards to making challenging content, I made a thread on this a little while back, and there are some good ideas in there (not all from me!) about how to fix warframe's end game and the problems with high level enemies.

Of course, I think it goes without saying that if you can fix end game content, then you can give vets a reason to keep playing.

 

[Xzorn]

Well, for the most part OP is correct. You can't build an end-game system based on static levels during ever increase Power Creep.

It just doesn't work and it combats the system making content creation upkeep more difficult instead of far more easy.

An example of this would be Diablo3. The game has received very little genuine content since it's expansion but each piece of content that's been created works with the endless circle system instead of against it. They don't spend 6 months on a quest that players finish in 2 hours, never to return.

What is end-game? Technically it's "Whatever you want to do when progression is over."

What is it typically seen as? "Difficult content to challenge the player."  -Where is that in this game other than endless missions? Players do Raid with joke groups like Ember x5 and majority of Sorties missions can be done without any mods on your frame. So where do we make use of our progression?

Endurance runs aren't about a number. They're about putting our builds and knowledge to the test. If it could be done elsewhere; I'm game but it can't.

-Alone 90%, Solo 2h+ runs are the least time consuming way to test most builds.
-Never. I suffer with less loot in Fissures over playing with randoms.
-No. I only buy Tennogen and play for everything else cuz there's little else to do.
-It can depend what you play and your personal goals. These quests? No.
-Yep, that's how you make an end-game system.

I've played this game since day one of Public release. I remember when lvl 30-40 enemies could produce a challenge during Damage 1.0 before the Void or Forma were added.  I remember when lvl 80-100 enemies could produce a challenge in the Void with Damage 2.0 and Corrupted mods. It's now 3 years later and we're still expected to find challenge in those same enemies? C'mon....

[Kusungphak]

Here is a totally different viewpoint I am a new player. I started playing after the Tonkor nerf. What got me to try it out is current players online. There will always be attrition in any game cause there are just too many games now.

What keeps a game alive is newer players.

• They buy and spend the most plat. 
• They view more videos and streams to seek out tips and tricks
• They are the ones asking questions all the time
• These generate hype and creates more awareness
• This brings in more new players

In my clan the most active players always talking and discussing key sharing, relic share are the new players. Veterans usually help out for things like raids. Our discord is mostly used by newbies asking sharing builds. If you are veteran you may not realise how much content is available to do in warframe. Its just overwhelming. 

 

[(PSN)ExetSM]

7 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

...
P.P.S.
Guys in the comments, if this post doesn't get deleted instantly, if you wanna tell me how much you enjoy Warframe after playing for 3000 hours, first ask the questions below:
- Do you play alone or with a bunch of friends distracting you all the time?
- Do you play in random que?
- Do you often pay to skip the game? - (I understand that Prime access is Warframe's bread and butter, but it is what it is - you pay to skip the farm. Same goes for Day1 packs.)
- Do you really honestly think that Warframe's gameplay stands on its own?
- Would you want a 24\7 available, challenging continuous gameplay mode with rewards that are deeply rooted into the game's trade system and are universally acknowledged by all players? 

Sometimes alone and sometimes with friend, going for leaderboard, world record and such
Yes, I sometimes jumps in random to give advice and help new players
I buy Accessory pack each third month for the boosters and to give my small support to DE for a game I enjoy
I would say yes, mainly pointing to what games today are huge and the similiarites between them.
I don't understand your question but I always react when people say "everyone agrees on this" because there is no possible way for you to know that.

As sort of relating to my final point, don't speak for all veterans players because you don't know what all want. You can only speak for yourself, so don't include me, or any other veteran player in your points because I don't agree with you. 

[AperoBeltaTwo]

47 minutes ago, (PS4)ExetSM said:

I don't agree with you

Money is a universally acknowledged reward for real-life effort and time spent - just to give you a quick example, - the carrot on a stick. In Warframe context it's plat and everything convertable into plat one way or another - primarily ducats and kuva to an extend.

P.S. Yes, there are probably some people out there living in the forest who don't consider money-paper as a treasure, but I'd say consensus in that regard is with the majority - and it's not like you really need to ask every single person if they agree on the value of money as a universal reward, right? 

==Or were you implying something else? I'm half-asleep so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, I'd appreciate that. 

Edited June 2, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[(PSN)ExetSM]

7 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Money is a universally acknowledged reward for real-life effort and time spent - just to give you a quick example, - the carrot on a stick. In Warframe context it's plat and everything convertable into plat one way or another - primarily ducats and kuva to an extend. 

Universally accepted doesn't:
1. Tell you anything about the truth of the claim
2. Still doesn't speak for everyone, but you said "all players"

And I'm not sure I understand your point, that the reward for effort in Warframe is plat? Then no, I don't even agree with you slightly. I do longruns for the fun of trying out new synergies, having a fun time with friends and see how far I can push myself. My effort in quests is the feelings I experience. Everytime I hear Second Dream music I tear up because it reminds me of Margulis saying "Dream, not of what you are, but what you want to be". That is the reward for me, not plat.

I might be constructing a straw man, but in that case, clear fog of misunderstanding from me because in that case I didn't understand your point

Edited June 2, 2017 by (PS4)ExetSM
I suck at editing

[AperoBeltaTwo]

28 minutes ago, (PS4)ExetSM said:

fun

- Fun Is unquantifiable. Games are meant to provide fun - otherwise there's no reason to play them. But the ways in which games provide fun vary from person to person. That's why you can not design a game around such a vague concept. You can, however, design a game around the most basic carrot on a stick structure and then add what you think people might like on top of that. Yet currently in Warframe that primitive basic structure is compromised by the simple fact that new players get rewards without effort and the old players' effort became obsolete.
 *You can not validate a reward without effort associated with it.*

28 minutes ago, (PS4)ExetSM said:

My effort in quests is the feelings I experience.

For the hundredth time, Warframe is not a story-driven game. It's a horde shooter. And to be successfull as a horde shooter Warframe needs carrot on a stick, Warframe needs a continuous mechanical expierience. You can tear up all you like and replay those quests as much as you want, they still won't amount to more than 5% of the time you'll spend in the game.

28 minutes ago, (PS4)ExetSM said:

"Dream, not of what you are, but what you want to be". That is the reward for me, not plat.

Read those words ten times over and maybe you'll begin to understand why I'm fighting these windmills here. Also, believe it or not, you bought that expierience with the most basic and most universally acknowledged currency human civilization had ever known - with your time.
 

Edited June 2, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[(PSN)ExetSM]

10 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

- Fun Is unquantifiable. Games are meant to provide fun - otherwise there's no reason to play them. But the ways in which games provide fun vary from person to person. That's why you can not design a game around such a vague concept. You can, however, design a game around the most basic carrot on a stick structure and then add what you think people might like on top of that. Yet currently in Warframe that primitive basic structure is compromised by the simple fact that new players get rewards without effort and the old players' effort became obsolete. 

For the hundredth time, Warframe is not a story-driven game. It's a horde shooter. And to be successfull as a horde shooter Warframe needs carrot on a stick, Warframe needs a continuous mechanical expierience. You can tear up all you like and replay those quests as much as you want, they still won't amount to more than 5% of the time you'll spend in the game.

Read those words ten times over and maybe you'll begin to understand why I'm fighting these windmills here. Also, believe it or not, you bought that expierience with the most basic and most universally acknowledged currency of the human civilization - with your time.
 

Stop taking my points out of context to be able to match it up with whatever you want to. Like your first point doesn't adress anything remotley to what I said about why it's fun for me.

And again, stop assuming you know how/what people act/do. Just because you spend 5% on quests doesn't mean everybody do. And even if it was only 5% that doesn't mean anything except that 5% of my time in Warframe goes to quests. And AGAIN you took my point out of context, how many times can you do that in one post?

I have listened, said and read them more then ten times and I still don't know if I am understanding you correctly, and when I asked you to clarify what you mean if I understood, you did not. If your point is that I use my time to do what I enjoy/don't enjoy, well duh. I never said anything that implied otherwise

PS. If you take my points out of context or assume something about someone else I will not respond because then you are not willing to discuss, just preach and I have interest in that.

Edited June 2, 2017 by (PS4)ExetSM

[AperoBeltaTwo]

47 minutes ago, (PS4)ExetSM said:

Stop taking my points out of context to be able to match it up with whatever you want to. Like your first point doesn't adress anything remotley to what I said about why it's fun for me.

And again, stop assuming you know how/what people act/do. Just because you spend 5% on quests doesn't mean everybody do. And even if it was only 5% that doesn't mean anything except that 5% of my time in Warframe goes to quests. And AGAIN you took my point out of context, how many times can you do that in one post?

I have listened, said and read them more then ten times and I still don't know if I am understanding you correctly, and when I asked you to clarify what you mean if I understood, you did not. If your point is that I use my time to do what I enjoy/don't enjoy, well duh. I never said anything that implied otherwise

PS. If you take my points out of context or assume something about someone else I will not respond because then you are not willing to discuss, just preach and I have interest in that.

*sigh* Please, if you get self-triggered don't put the blame on me. There's currently no reward for any effort in Warframe. Back in void 1.0 ducats were the reward, You would build your warframes and guns, collect mods to be able to stay longer in endless missions, to be able to get more value out of one key and your time. And ducats as I assume you know could be converted into plat either by selling prime junk directly, selling prime parts as parts, or through the goods you guy from Baro (but I guess I shouldn't assume anything with you at this point). This is what I'm talking about, when I refer to a "universally valuable reward".

In case you bring up camping - camping was never a real problem. A lot of people simply didn't do it cause it was no fun. I certainly didn't. And camping was still time and effort spent in the game and deserved a reward no matter if some of the elitists liked that way of playing the game or not. If camping was an issue, it should have been fixed separately from endless missions. Yet DE scraped the whole endless missions thing alltogether and turned warframe into parcoud running simulator with enemies as obstacles for jumping over.

Edited June 2, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[Xzorn]

The proverbial "Carrot on a stick" is just exploitation of the rewards system of the brain.

You do something. You get something and your brain releases dopamine so you feel pleasure from it. Once you've felt this reward it's the anticipation of getting it again that motivates most people which is the carrot on a stick's function.

Motivation reasons can vary tremendously but there are two different types of motivation. Intrinsic and Extrinsic.

I do endurance runs with Intrinsic motivation. To know everything about a frame and further my knowledge of the game itself. (satisfaction)

What Warframe lacks for veterans is Extrinsic motivation which also happens to be what most people respond to. (money, objects, power)

Since it's the anticipation of rewards which motivate; a balancing act must be played. Give the rewards too easily and you lose anticipation, therefor motivation. Force anticipation to linger too long without compensating rewards for the increased time and you also lose motivation. Warframe lacks this balance.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

1 hour ago, Xzorn said:

The proverbial "Carrot on a stick" is just exploitation of the rewards system of the brain.

You do something. You get something and your brain releases dopamine so you feel pleasure from it. Once you've felt this reward it's the anticipation of getting it again that motivates most people which is the carrot on a stick's function.

Motivation reasons can vary tremendously but there are two different types of motivation. Intrinsic and Extrinsic.

I do endurance runs with Intrinsic motivation. To know everything about a frame and further my knowledge of the game itself. (satisfaction)

What Warframe lacks for veterans is Extrinsic motivation which also happens to be what most people respond to. (money, objects, power)

Since it's the anticipation of rewards which motivate; a balancing act must be played. Give the rewards too easily and you lose anticipation, therefor motivation. Force anticipation to linger too long without compensating rewards for the increased time and you also lose motivation. Warframe lacks this balance.

I love you.

This is also the way a habit to perform a certain task is created. One reason why despite all the salt I still didn't drop Warframe. You perform a task, you get your chemical and in-game reward. Feeling of accomplishment kicks in. With enough times repeated a habit is formed and that's how a player gets hooked. Current Warframe not only doesn't have that "hooking" mechanism in place, it also starves those who are already hooked - draging them through the slow and painful process of withdrawal.

I simultaneously love and hate Dark Souls as an example of such a system where most of the effort and reward is happening inside the player's head. Like if developers intentionally used the player's brain as a gameplay mechanic. The more I think about it, the cooler it sounds, because ofc they did it intentionally.

For a more conventional example take literally any Korean MMORPG. The whole genre wouldn't exist without a carrot on a stick concept. MMO's are generally absolute g@rbage as standalone games. Quests are boring repetitive go-kill-finders, lore is mandatory, NPCs can't even be considered as proper characters. But you are given a world full of scaling game to hunt that yealds certain universally acknowledged rewards - be that gear or resources. And usually 90% of the items in game are tradeble, establishing a value chain which is basically there to create "more better rewards" and more instances of chemical satisfaction off those rewards. That's why those games work so well.

Warframe can not use Dark Souls kind of system, but classic MMORPG type of a value chain is more or less implementable. Hell, just farming f@king arcanes off endless raids would be good enough - especially if you could put those arcanes into armor pieces or on your companions. Just ducats would already be good enough in fact. Even kuva would work - kuva is also more or less convertible into plat. And while you farm all that, you'd play the game. There would be a reason to use the gear you collected throughout the game and you wouldn't feel as if you just wasted the time of your life (now I'm talking about myself here xD).

Edited June 2, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[KorbanGado]

9 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

No. I mean something you could jump in anytime you log into the game and just play your brains out as long as you like, while geting a universally valuable compesation for your time.

 The problem with that is that quests require too much work. Quests are an incredibly inefficient time investment in terms of gameplay hours. War Within took a whole year to make - while the quest itself only took an hour tops to complete (and it pretty much didn't use any gameplay mechanics already established in the game prior), Quests simply don't work for grindy games. They are good to have but should never be the primary focus of development.

 People need carrots. You don't notice them, when they are there, but you'll immedeately notice when they are gone. Think for a moment, if there is something apart from habit that motivates you to log into the game again and again - if it's your ingame friends, that would mean that the gameplay itself doesn't do it for you. Same with the "new shiny weapon, skin, etc" - it's still a carrot on a stick. New content is a carrot on a stick. New quest is a carrot on a stick. You wouldn't play this game without a carrot. I'm just personally fed up with those fake carrots and I want a reason to play the actual game for a change.

- Is an unquantifiable subjective term. The thing is, you'll still get fun with the carrot. You'll still have fun with endless game modes. But people like me, we need a reason to play Warframe - otherwise we don't play it. We need an incentive, a reward, a little thing to not feel as if our time is wasted for nothing. Because we like being efficient, we like being challenged, we like discovering maximum potential of ingame mechanics - this is how we get our fun. The problem is, without the carrot - a real carrot that is deeply rooted into the game's value system (like ducats), we feel like we waste our time. Especially there are easier and more efficient ways to get the same rewards. I know how to put it: if you guys challenge yourself to enjoy the game, people like me love to challenge the game to find out everything about it. One way isn't better than the other, but our way of getting fun was taken away from us,

I only speak for myself and the people who happen to agree with me. Today is July 2, 2017. Let's see if you'll still be playing this game a year from now. Let's see if Warframe is gonna last another year the way it is now. I still hope endless missions come back before that tho.

 

Again, not all people need carrots as in rewards. If I just feel like playing warframe - with or without friends - than I play it. You are right in saying that fun is subjective, but so is difficulty, so is reward.

Now, here's the thing, the impressions I get from your statements. You have your mindset and it's not going to change regardless of who or what gets brought up contrary to your mindset - and this shouldn't be misinterpreted as an attack on you, your entitled to stick to your proverbial guns, as with a lot of this stuff there is no right or wrong (outside of claiming a game is gonna die and it's vets will wander off without being some form of time traveler, and with how time travel works even that is kinda wishy washy). All I can do is provide you with my point of view, however absurd or unfathomable it is from your standpoint. I have fun playing the game without a carrot, because I enjoy it mechanically. I don't see the logic in saying "anything done with friends automatically invalidates the thing being done as fun."

Now, this game hasn't really change much at all at it's core. I know a lot of people keep complaining about how "old warframe was way better" - even though it was basically the same game with less options and no story (including the higher tier harder content). Sure, it's a personal preference thing, but when I first started playing this game, I knew what it was - an RNG based free to play game, where I will be enticed to spend real money to avoid dealing with RNG or purchase shiny cosmetics. Same game as now, except with a bunch of systems more fleshed out. I'll also state this again here, because it so often gets ignored or called stupid when I say it - if the game is too easy, have you tried removing mods from your warframes and guns to make the game harder in the same way that a simple difficulty hike would? Have you mastered every weapon, done every mission node, finished every Raid (or whatever it is that they are called - never caught on with me for some reason), gotten every RNG-forsaken mod and item? The power is in your hands to take a completely unmodded frame solo into the highest level Void survival/defense mission and challenge yourself to go as long as possible, which generally earn you relics which then contain prime parts that are traded to other players for plat or to the kiosk for ducats. If that's not enough, than why would an "endless hard difficulty mode" ever be anything different for you?

Let's see if you'll still be playing this game a year from now. [I've played it for three, I don't see why I wouldn't] Let's see if Warframe is gonna last another year the way it is now.[considering the steam charts, I'd say the game is doing fine - and that's only taking steam into account] I still hope endless missions come back before that tho.[I assume you mean besides Defense, Survival, Interception, and Excavation missions].

[Volinus7]

This is a game where redundant accretion is called "content". 

It's not really different from those tcg mobile games.

Don't put your expectations too high and this game would be good enough for you.

 

 

I always speculate that mostly complaint threads are often made by people who suffer from bad game designs in Warframe but still bound by sunk cost fallacy so instead of leaving, complaint threads popped up but DE ignore them anyway though.

Edited June 2, 2017 by Volinus7

[Gabbynaru]

I play solo, absolutely love the game. I never "pay to skip", cause what's the bloody point of playing then?  I'd rather work for my plat/weapons/frames (or buy them months after they were released when they are dirt cheap, or of true value - I ain't paying more  than 40p for Oberon Prime for example). Also, I don't play endless missions. I don't enjoy them one bit. Except survival, I can deal with survival, but I won't go out of my way to play it.

Yeah, Warframe might need some more end-game stuff to do, but frankly, I'm gonna stick around with it until the very end, cause the gameplay is just that darn good and enjoyable. That's really all I care about.

[DrBorris]

Wait... do you think that Warframe's end game is in a WORSE position now than it has been?

 

You must be new, because there is more to do now than ever. Any "veteran" that has been her for even over a year can attest to the amount of new things we can do, let alone the people who have been here 3-4 years. To say Veterans will leave is stupid because THEY HAVEN'T LEFT YET. There was "nothing" keeping veterans here three years ago, and there is "nothing" (according to you) now. 

 

So your points are pretty much invalid as they have already been proven wrong, the fact that veterans are here now proves many are here to stay. 

 

I play Warframe because it is... wait for it... fun. I enjoy the game when I play it, even when farming. Hydroid is one of my favorite frames to play because to me his is... get ready for your mind to explode... fun. Of course I know when I need to use something more useful, and when it comes to that Ivara and Banshee are my go-tos, but every time I play Warframe my mindset is that it is a game, not a chore. I find it fun to be flying through the air and rain down explosives, I find it fun to slide through a corridor and skewer three enemies on one arrow, I find it fun when three squad mates and I bulldoze through a mission as a group.

 

Don't get caught up on purpose because spoiler, life doesn't really have one either. I play Warframe for fun, and as long as it remains fun I will keep playing.

(some end-game content would be appreciated though)

[Volinus7]

25 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

Wait... do you think that Warframe's end game is in a WORSE position now than it has been?

 

You must be new, because there is more to do now than ever. Any "veteran" that has been her for even over a year can attest to the amount of new things we can do, let alone the people who have been here 3-4 years. To say Veterans will leave is stupid because THEY HAVEN'T LEFT YET. There was "nothing" keeping veterans here three years ago, and there is "nothing" (according to you) now. 

 

So your points are pretty much invalid as they have already been proven wrong, the fact that veterans are here now proves many are here to stay. 

 

I play Warframe because it is... wait for it... fun. I enjoy the game when I play it, even when farming. Hydroid is one of my favorite frames to play because to me his is... get ready for your mind to explode... fun. Of course I know when I need to use something more useful, and when it comes to that Ivara and Banshee are my go-tos, but every time I play Warframe my mindset is that it is a game, not a chore. I find it fun to be flying through the air and rain down explosives, I find it fun to slide through a corridor and skewer three enemies on one arrow, I find it fun when three squad mates and I bulldoze through a mission as a group.

 

Don't get caught up on purpose because spoiler, life doesn't really have one either. I play Warframe for fun, and as long as it remains fun I will keep playing.

(some end-game content would be appreciated though)

^^^

This +1000

When you feel Warframe is a chore, uninstall it immediately.

Edited June 2, 2017 by Volinus7

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

39 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

Wait... do you think that Warframe's end game is in a WORSE position now than it has been?

 

You must be new, because there is more to do now than ever. Any "veteran" that has been her for even over a year can attest to the amount of new things we can do, let alone the people who have been here 3-4 years. To say Veterans will leave is stupid because THEY HAVEN'T LEFT YET. There was "nothing" keeping veterans here three years ago, and there is "nothing" (according to you) now. 

 

So your points are pretty much invalid as they have already been proven wrong, the fact that veterans are here now proves many are here to stay. 

 

I play Warframe because it is... wait for it... fun. I enjoy the game when I play it, even when farming. Hydroid is one of my favorite frames to play because to me his is... get ready for your mind to explode... fun. Of course I know when I need to use something more useful, and when it comes to that Ivara and Banshee are my go-tos, but every time I play Warframe my mindset is that it is a game, not a chore. I find it fun to be flying through the air and rain down explosives, I find it fun to slide through a corridor and skewer three enemies on one arrow, I find it fun when three squad mates and I bulldoze through a mission as a group.

 

Don't get caught up on purpose because spoiler, life doesn't really have one either. I play Warframe for fun, and as long as it remains fun I will keep playing.

(some end-game content would be appreciated though)

Pretty much this^ for me Warframe is like "devil may cry" (and I love me some DMC) but with more options and it's always being updated. 

Edited June 2, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[Skaleek]

15 hours ago, JSharpie said:

The problem with raids is they are very puzzle heavy and CC oriented. I'm mostly against the idea of this game being a tactical shooter but I feel raids should be a test of our ability, not of our builds. Or at least a healthy mix of the two. Instead of puzzle based content, make us fight some mini-bosses for a key to get to the real boss. Make us have to fight melee only in certain sections against other melee only enemies. There is a lot of possibilities for some fun things to try and do. Especially with raids. Hell, I wouldn't mind some parkour centric obstacle courses incorporated in Raids. Just something new and interesting that isn't locking down the map while these absurdly long puzzles are completed.

Yes Mr Sharpie. I've been saying this since the first raid, the puzzles are cool and all but dont feel very warframe-esque. I want to fight in raids. Raids right now are booooring. They were fun the first time we played them cause we were figuring it out. Now its just going through the motions of doing a monotonous puzzle.

Put each Tenno in their own room and make them fight a boss and have to get through to progress to the next stage. Let tenno that get through early sit in an observatory watching the other tenno fighting and be able to give little mini help/buffs. Like temporarily stun the boss or heal the tenno or something. Or throw an energy orb down. Colliseum raid please!

I still haven't experienced a grand scale fight during a raid yet. I have a feeling this is primarily due to engine (*coughconsolecough*) restrictions.

 

P.S. Did you have to kill ASharpie to ISharpie to become JSharpie?

 

Also on the OP's point. I've been playing WF for a very long time, and the only things that usually push me towards quitting or burnout is the time needed to acquire things in game. Have you tried getting Cyclone Kraken? Sometimes the amount of time you need to invest into WF makes it feel more like a job. I dont think any amount of break from the game will ever make searching for caches in the kuva fortress tileset for 5 hours fun, for me anyways.

Edited June 2, 2017 by Skaleek

[AperoBeltaTwo]

3 hours ago, KorbanGado said:

if the game is too easy, have you tried removing mods from your warframes and guns to make the game harder in the same way that a simple difficulty hike would

What? Why would I do such a thing? Every mod I maxed, every forma I put on my gear, every build I created is a part of the overall gameplay. Those builds are perfectly relevant and create the feel for the game and warframes\weapons. Why would I deny myself one (working) portion of content for the sake of a dubious fix to another (broken) potrion of the content? And difficulty isn't the main issue in the first place. I've said it a few times already, fissures are perfectly doable even half-naked. The problem with current warframe is exactly that the gameplay can not support the very mechanics that are already in the game - and were in the game way longer than void 2.0 and relics system.

Again, you're suggesting that the responsibility to fix poor game design lies on the player. It's like saying if a chef offered you a poorly cooked fugu fish and you got poisoned - it's your own fault. That's ridiculous.

3 hours ago, KorbanGado said:

Have you mastered every weapon, done every mission node, finished every Raid (or whatever it is that they are called - never caught on with me for some reason), gotten every RNG-forsaken mod and item? The power is in your hands to take a completely unmodded frame solo into the highest level Void survival/defense mission and challenge yourself to go as long as possible, which generally earn you relics which then contain prime parts that are traded to other players for plat or to the kiosk for ducats. If that's not enough, than why would an "endless hard difficulty mode" ever be anything different for you?

 Why would it be any different? Because there's a huge difference between you fooling around with an unmodded warframe, hindering yourself and the team in the process and hanging off their necks, and you utilizing in a meaningful way the full potential of your builds and weapons as well as your time and effort spent to collect and master that various gear.

 I understand what you're saying, but you contradict yourself here. Modding system is a part of the gameplay. Putting forma and building your gear to the fullest of its potential is a part of the gameplay. This is something that DE created for us over the years of updates. Now you're saying that to enjoy the game I have to abandon those gameplay elements for the sake of what exactly? - just to make worthwhile a recent broken cheese fissure system that still won't offer any reward for my effort even if I do what you say? Where's logic in that? I see no logic in that. Void 2.0 is a mistake - you say I'm supposed to abandon perfectly working mechanics for the sake of playing along with that mistake? Why would I do that? Why would anyone do that?

Steam charts btw mean nothing. A huge portion of the player base logs in on a daily basis just to clear the daily reward. They don't play the game - they just log in and log out immedeately afterwards. If you want a useful statistic - duration of missions would be a good one. As well as the time per day a player spends in the game\in a mission.