Nullifier observations and discussion

[TheMissing-Sheperd]

Hello all

While searching for ducats over the weekend i was monitoring my nullifier interactions and saw some very off things.

 

As anyone can see the nullifier's drone is inside the ceiling and the nullifier's is attempting to block my path.

   

This is a artic exmius nullifier

They normally attempt to block my path

Yes that's the 4 nulls from above stacking

I'm going to class these interactions as bugs that needs to be address.

1-This enemy unit spawn rate is ridiculous its so bad that they normally rush my warframe when visible. I'm not joking about them rushing my frame once they spawn they actually run towards frame IF my frame has a buff on.

2-The nullifier drone is clipping through the ceiling, this just defeats the purpose of the drone update.

3-Sometimes the drone actually spawns inside the bubble yet again defeating the purpose of the drone update yet again.

4-As mention above along side this the drone hit box is at a weird angle on the bubble arc (its above the arc meaning you would have to be above/level with the bubble), with this there's a 30% of actually destroying that drone.

5-The drone hit box is still to small i have seen my bullets actually do nothing even though they make contact. Personally this normally happens to me.

6-The artic nullifier exium as i recall this was mentioned to be a bugged unit but its still in the game.

7-Nullifier bubbles still clip through walls even thought the drone update was made to address this.

8-The nullifier bubble is still to large for many rooms in this game.

 

Here is a example of how the null unit should be.

  

Changes that can help

1-The null unit has a bubble instead of a dome to prevent downward clipping and odd compression.

2-The drone shouldn't be in control of the surface detection this will prevent some of the drone ceiling clipping. (it would be the bubble/dome instead)

3-The drone would have a space to the ceiling as seen above. (The space above the drone is 1 drone and a half before the ceiling)

4-The now dome would be 25% smaller than it was in bubble form. (This will prevent having to be at the same level/higher/at a greater draw back distance from the drone.)

5-The drone hit box needs to be increased. (seriously i have shot those drones many times and 50% of the time it doesn't register)

6-Cut the spawn rate by 65% (This should prevent those horrible pictures above.)

7-Once a nullifier comes in contact with a next it nullifier it compresses both their domes/bubbles to completely prevent stacking.

8-Modding for Punch through doesn't work for nullifiers even though most of the ammo used is physical. (Rail gun moas as i recall can punch through frost bubble, please correct if wrong) 

9-One of worst problems that should be addressed is the fact that build up ability's are completely removed instead of a frame like Nidus once entered the bubble he degrades. The degrade should be duration or just like Nidus for damage shields. ex- Chroma, Inaros, Oberon, Day, Night and rhino

Some how frost, atlas and limbos powers are deactivated even though they are physically there/not there.

A example;

Atlas with his rumblers once in contact with the bubble they die instantly. Once a bulwark is place down and it comes in contact instantly its destroyed. Yet why does Excalibur, Wokung, Valkyr and Titania's 4th ability makes contact with the bubble and is able to destroy it. Even the operator beam ability can make contact with the bubble.

By this "logic" your saying if a frost enters a nulls bubble would his bubbles get destroyed? Well in game it doesn't happen, it the opposite which doesn't make make sense. Wouldn't physical contact with a nullifier from a operator or a warframe just compress the bubble? Or would the warframe stop working and force the operator out.

Right now the operator is able to use his powers inside the null plane but at the same time isn't.

Not going to lie this enemy looks and smells like artificial difficulty. The enemy unit is bias, confusing and bugged as of right now.

Lastly the null units only appear in NLOR meaning that they ARE there to make life a nighmare, why then does the nullifier exist outside nightmare modes.

Just my 22 cents  

 

[SoGlow]

nerf nullifiers.

[(PSN)Warframe_Elite_1]

1 minute ago, xKlay said:

nerf nullifiers.

not nerf it but tweak it or fix it 

[(PSN)A_SimpleName]

Nullifier's Bubbles should NOT impede Projectile Ammo with travel time. That's all I have to say.

Spoiler

Bubbles should NOT stop any type of bullets at all but I'm willing to compromise for projectiles.

 

[Genitive]

I agree with everything you mentioned here.

[SoGlow]

10 hours ago, (PS4)super_sayene_4 said:

not nerf it but tweak it or fix it 

I play most of the time with Mag and Lanka

Magnetize which.. gets wiped out instanly by him and explosion dmg doesnt even affect the null or the bubble and a sniper... which takes years to take down a bubble, the dmg of the rifle doesnt even matter you need to have a weapon with fire rate which is stupid punch through doesnt even work im crying in corner every day...

Well, they are OP in some cases like mine..

What can we do?

We never play against Corpus anymore until Nullies gets "fixed".

[LSG501]

My biggest issue with nullifiers is the drone.... It was supposed to give us other options but most of the time it's inside the dome so we can't hit it or if it is actually on the outside it's so strong it can't be one shot by a sniper/bow, hell I've given both barrels from a tigris prime (from above on platform) and the nullifier just carried on like nothing happened... thos means we're back to the same old techniques as before.  Also found that I can literally land on the drone with a melee slam from a bullet jump and it does zero damage, it basically acts like I'm hitting the floor... surely that should kill it....

I have to say that I haven't seen as many of those situations above as the OP, although I have seen the artic eximus inside the nullifier bubble and the overlapping nullifiers (with sappers thrown in for good measure)

Edited June 5, 2017 by LSG501

[TaylorsContraction]

Refining the null drone would be welcome.  It often doesn't float above the bubble but to the side   away from the player.  So it can't be shot unless we jump over the bubble to the other side,  but all the enemies are there,  so that's a poor tactical decision.  I still opt to just go in bubble and kill nullifier but healer ancients ruin my life.

[Kjahla81]

Seems like recently the bubble isn't shrinking when the drone touches anything.  Also the corrupted nully drone tends to really blend in with the bubble. 

[peterc3]

1 hour ago, (PS4)A_SimpleName said:

Nullifier's Bubbles should NOT impede Projectile Ammo with travel time. That's all I have to say.

  Hide contents

Bubbles should NOT stop any type of bullets at all but I'm willing to compromise for projectiles.

 

Then they would be literally useless as they have relatively low shields and health.

[Xzorn]

One-shot, Mid-Air, Eagle-eye, No-Scope, MLG from Africa.

If they were actually designed as counters to Warframe powers then why do they unfairly one-shot players at higher levels.

That's all I have say about the lame that is Nullifiers.

Edited June 5, 2017 by Xzorn

[(PSN)A_SimpleName]

19 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Then they would be literally useless as they have relatively low shields and health.

Sappers are "weak" too and they wrecks. My point is that Nully job is suppose to nullify powers and not provide a physical barrier. Nully can still do their job by preventing massive AoE powers from wiping the floor from far away. Just like sappers, you'll still need to prioritize them. 

[TheMissing-Sheperd]

5 hours ago, LSG501 said:

My biggest issue with nullifiers is the drone.... It was supposed to give us other options but most of the time it's inside the dome so we can't hit it or if it is actually on the outside it's so strong it can't be one shot by a sniper/bow, hell I've given both barrels from a tigris prime (from above on platform) and the nullifier just carried on like nothing happened... thos means we're back to the same old techniques as before.  Also found that I can literally land on the drone with a melee slam from a bullet jump and it does zero damage, it basically acts like I'm hitting the floor... surely that should kill it....

I have to say that I haven't seen as many of those situations above as the OP, although I have seen the artic eximus inside the nullifier bubble and the overlapping nullifiers (with sappers thrown in for good measure)

Yep i have tested this again and again the hit box on the drone isn't either in the right place or its to small. As i mention before sometime its IN the bubble for me i hope thats not just me.

[TheMissing-Sheperd]

4 hours ago, peterc3 said:

Then they would be literally useless as they have relatively low shields and health.

I don't like fighting to many canon fodder enemy's so it would be best to replace them with a robotic unit or a tech without the supra.

[TheMissing-Sheperd]

5 hours ago, (PS4)super_sayene_4 said:

not nerf it but tweak it or fix it 

yes indeed

[TheMissing-Sheperd]

4 hours ago, Kjahla81 said:

Seems like recently the bubble isn't shrinking when the drone touches anything.  Also the corrupted nully drone tends to really blend in with the bubble. 

The drone goes in a horizontal arc above the dome of the bubble. That mean it moves to the area with  the most space causing clipping issues and getting lost in the ceiling most of the time.

[TheMissing-Sheperd]

4 hours ago, TaylorsContraction said:

Refining the null drone would be welcome.  It often doesn't float above the bubble but to the side   away from the player.  So it can't be shot unless we jump over the bubble to the other side,  but all the enemies are there,  so that's a poor tactical decision.  I still opt to just go in bubble and kill nullifier but healer ancients ruin my life.

sigh yeah

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

4 hours ago, (PS4)A_SimpleName said:

Nullifier's Bubbles should NOT impede Projectile Ammo with travel time. That's all I have to say.

  Hide contents

Bubbles should NOT stop any type of bullets at all but I'm willing to compromise for projectiles.

 

so basically NMLoR nullies.  Of course those have their own problems:

More bubbles than the gazillion bubble show

Spoiler

and the drone are usually clipped in the ceiling if there is any ceiling at all (stage 1 bomb dispenser, caves, etc) and can't be shot.

[(PSN)Warframe_Elite_1]

when you are invisible they rush on you as if they knew exactly where you are that make me sick ^^

[djternan]

Another problem is that the drone isn't centered on the bubble.  It sits in front of the nullifier.  With how twitchy enemies get it can become very difficult to hit the drone if the nullifier is facing in your general direction.  It is impossible to hit the drone if the nullifier is facing away from you.

 

The drone should be directly on top of the bubble and have some space between it and the bubble.  That way it can be shot from any angle.

[TheMissing-Sheperd]

6 hours ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

so basically NMLoR nullies.  Of course those have their own problems:

More bubbles than the gazillion bubble show

  Reveal hidden contents

and the drone are usually clipped in the ceiling if there is any ceiling at all (stage 1 bomb dispenser, caves, etc) and can't be shot.

lol yes and that's a adorable picture.

Besides that as i mentioned yes these null units should be left for nightmare modes they just do not make sense with normal game play. The ones in NLOR can't be shot down physically but the drone can be killed yet in normal missions null units can take physical damage. Its just too inconstant with the flow of game play.  Artic eximus i get but null bubbles i do not get not to mention how the corpus got a hold of the null and void plane technology.

Also yes the ones in NLOR do have that roof clipping issue as well and that needs to be addressed it really messes up trinity.

 

[TheMissing-Sheperd]

4 hours ago, djternan said:

Another problem is that the drone isn't centered on the bubble.  It sits in front of the nullifier.  With how twitchy enemies get it can become very difficult to hit the drone if the nullifier is facing in your general direction.  It is impossible to hit the drone if the nullifier is facing away from you.

 

The drone should be directly on top of the bubble and have some space between it and the bubble.  That way it can be shot from any angle.

Yes agreed

As mention above it moves on a horizontal arc on the domes vertical arc and its AI knows when to move towards hidden areas making the drone update questionable.

[TheMissing-Sheperd]

5 hours ago, (PS4)super_sayene_4 said:

when you are invisible they rush on you as if they knew exactly where you are that make me sick ^^

50 50 chance of it happening to me while i play Loki but i have notice that as well for most enemy's in this game sometime they just rush you like they know your there.

Yet the null units are the worst for this they actually rush my frame while invisible once they spawn, It also happens when my warframe has a buff on them.

[(PSN)fullblast35]

this could be a bug and an actually useful one : whenever I'm using a frame with a draining ability like renewal,  sometimes a null would catch you off guard and you're in the bubble for like 1 second.  you manage to get out and your powers is still working.  or as nullifier is growing bubble you're right next to him and the bubble covers you, but you step away from it and ability is still on.  the only thing that works fine with null is that they hit pretty hard and their pants are still on.