Umbra warframes [Discussion & Appreciation][*spoilers*]

[(XBOX)K1jker]

vor 17 Stunden schrieb AmirX3:

 

3) Beyond Steel path :

Don't get me wrong Steel path is hard but what if there's an endgame mode that only experts can finish with interesting rewards 

 

I really dislike when people say "add endgame with interesting rewards" but don't specify what they're even on about.. >_>

What's an "endgame" here, and what's an "interesting reward"? And who's specified as an expert? 

Am i an expert? I hope so :( 

[CerberusJade]

So I had this idea when a youtuber put out an April Fools video about Wisp being the next umbra. It got me thinking about "what IS the next umbra going to be?". had a few thoughts of what would be cool to see and all that then I had this idea.

Umbra frames move on their own

Nekros raises the dead

... what if we face off against hordes of undead of the different factions who are all being raised by an out of control, rogue Nekros Umbra who's main goal in its existance is currently to eradicate all life? we could hunt down clues to its location, fighting through its legion of risen.. even fight a few fallen and risen warframes (maybe they're the ones who have the clues we need to find Nekros Umbra).. 

Edited April 14, 2022 by CerberusJade

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

2 hours ago, CerberusJade said:

So I had this idea when a youtuber put out an April Fools video about Wisp being the next umbra. It got me thinking about "what IS the next umbra going to be?". had a few thoughts of what would be cool to see and all that then I had this idea.

Umbra frames move on their own

Nekros raises the dead

... what if we face off against hordes of undead of the different factions who are all being raised by an out of control, rogue Nekros Umbra who's main goal in its existance is currently to eradicate all life? we could hunt down clues to its location, fighting through its legion of risen.. even fight a few fallen and risen warframes (maybe they're the ones who have the clues we need to find Nekros Umbra).. 

I don't think they will do one. Take everything they said about Umbra and future frames with a grain of salt because I think if they were going to do a second Umbra frame:

We would have already have it by now. With Umbra forma being in the game: Any Warframe can realistically be one. 

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

On 2022-04-09 at 12:39 PM, AmirX3 said:

there are multiple topics that i would like to discuss ,in my opinion they are imperative to do 

1) Umbra mods :

we have umbra mods that focuses on Armor,Health and strength but what about the other mods that focuses on Range,Efficiency,Shield and Duration and it would be great if we get the full set 

2) Umbra Volt and Mag :

In 2018 Umbra excalibur was in the game during the sacrifice quest and i understand there can't be umbra for everything but would it be possible to make Umbra Volt and Mag, since they were the first warframes to get aside from excalibur 

3) Beyond Steel path :

Don't get me wrong Steel path is hard but what if there's an endgame mode that only experts can finish with interesting rewards 

4) PVP mode :

it's a new game mode which your clan can challenge another clan through maybe railjacks battles and race to get various rewards from it 

1: its possible, to what i understand is the umbra mods (sacrificial) were developed on the frame, so more frames means more mods then if thats the case

2: initially on devstream 58 , later 125,152 ect more umbras are coming , the umbra frames to follow excalibur Umbra will have non lore setups 

as for volt & mag i did draw some concept art , maybe it suits your taste 

Spoiler

 

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

On 2022-04-10 at 1:33 AM, Myscho said:

Umbra Excalibur exist because DE wanna stop players beg for Excalibur Prime, so my guess there wont be any more Umbra frames

per the devs, more will come , eventually...

Devstream 58 it was stated that "UMBRAS ARE COMING TO GLOBAL, STARTING OFF WITH EXCALIBUR UMBRA" 
Devstream 125 confirmed more umbra warframes would be coming to warframe in the future, currently discussed is non lore deployment "We have had internal discussions about creating new Umbra Warframes, but there are no plans yet! It isn’t likely that any new ones would be lore dependent like Excalibur Umbra."
Devstream 152 umbra's are shelved for now as other tasks/projects have a higher priority at this time, as of now none are in development stages, but they are still in the plans for the games future 

the description of frames to follow Excalibur Umbra are called the Umbra Warframes

A darker side to the Prime Warframes ,  Lore connections: (Warped version of Warframes) (this might not happen lore wise now)
It was initially discussed that the umbra frames would be a limited series (Every Frame will get a prime someday, but not all frames will get an umbra)
it was stated Umbra warframes would be a limited series, some will get Umbra variants but not all, this has not been reconfirmed however, so hopefully umbra will become a thing like primes

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

On 2022-04-14 at 6:36 PM, (XBOX)EternalDrk Mako said:

per the devs, more will come , eventually...

Devstream 58 it was stated that "UMBRAS ARE COMING TO GLOBAL, STARTING OFF WITH EXCALIBUR UMBRA" 
Devstream 125 confirmed more umbra warframes would be coming to warframe in the future, currently discussed is non lore deployment "We have had internal discussions about creating new Umbra Warframes, but there are no plans yet! It isn’t likely that any new ones would be lore dependent like Excalibur Umbra."
Devstream 152 umbra's are shelved for now as other tasks/projects have a higher priority at this time, as of now none are in development stages, but they are still in the plans for the games future 

And they could be shelved for a very long time. Or abandoned outright. 

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

On 2022-04-15 at 7:02 PM, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim said:

And they could be shelved for a very long time. Or abandoned outright. 

de dosnt usually state openly they would come back to something, and state methodology is still in the works without a idea at least ,and knowing steve has long stated he wants the umbras to become a thing like the primes 🤔

they were shelved specifically due to the covid 19 crisis occurrence (along with channeling rework, melee changes to IPS, echos of umbra, duvuri, ect lots of stuff) its not like umbras were specifically shelved alone, much content from the last 2 years has been put on the de backburner due to resources and time/staff capability due to the BS thats covid

as due to the initial covid 19 measures, de wanted to specifically focus on heart of Deimos and new war content that they could do remotely and from home. now with the devs slowly coming back into the office and doing large scale work and new hires to the team, its not unlikely we wont see more development.

given now the new war, and the angels of zariman leads us steps closer to the duviri eternal-isim setup, its not unlikely to then de will start hooking the back burner setups into the new area (de often does this) as the multiverse concept falls in line with the Non lore specific release to more umbras (prior concept theory of how this could work was earlier posted) that the devs had talked about in 125

but like anything with warframe its SOOON TM (dosnt stop me from asking about it every devstream thread also ) 😆

 

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

Well Pablo said they have no plans to do more along with "Never say Never"

I think its more safe to say that's it for Umbra. 

"To the pit of misery Dilly Dilly!"

Edited May 23, 2022 by (XBOX)Cram Duahcim

[Xaero]

Yeah, here's the full quote.

 

Question 3:

My favorite warframe is Excalibur Umbra. I'm curious about the next Umbra warframe will be, and what forms the Umbra series is going to be unveiled?

Pablo:

We don't really have plans for more Umbras at the moment. Excalibur Umbra is pretty special in the way that we did it. Like you know, there was a story behind it and obviously a request for sacrifice, it's all revolving a big kind of the origins of Excalibur Umbra.

So, never say never, but at this point we don't really have plans to go further into now making... you know, we have 49 warframes, so you know making 48 more Umbras is kind of daunting.

So yeah, at this point, we don't really have a plan for it. But never say never. I do love Excalibur Umbra, definitely I can see the desire.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

6 hours ago, Xaero said:

Yeah, here's the full quote.

 

Question 3:

My favorite warframe is Excalibur Umbra. I'm curious about the next Umbra warframe will be, and what forms the Umbra series is going to be unveiled?

Pablo:

We don't really have plans for more Umbras at the moment. Excalibur Umbra is pretty special in the way that we did it. Like you know, there was a story behind it and obviously a request for sacrifice, it's all revolving a big kind of the origins of Excalibur Umbra.

So, never say never, but at this point we don't really have plans to go further into now making... you know, we have 49 warframes, so you know making 48 more Umbras is kind of daunting.

So yeah, at this point, we don't really have a plan for it. But never say never. I do love Excalibur Umbra, definitely I can see the desire.

 

On 2022-05-23 at 9:37 AM, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim said:

Well Pablo said they have no plans to do more along with "Never say Never"

I think its more safe to say that's it for Umbra. 

"To the pit of misery Dilly Dilly!"

its what they said in 152 so its still to come just no current plans. for now they are focused on duviri and the zariman releases along with whatever tennocon is doing 

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

So I noticed that a lot of people continually ask DE for more Umbra frames. While I understand the difficulty of having to add a new version of every Warframe while also deciding on how the players would even be able to get these frames, along with the fact this would make prime frames less valuable, there might be a much easier solution.

The Sacrifice quest heavily implies that all of the Orokin warframes are/were sentient (as in being conscious at one point), and Umbra was more of our example. Not only that but DE seems to like the idea of Umbra being the "special" Warframe type only given to Excalibur for being the MC of warframes and the fact that Excalibur prime is founder's exclusive.

So if DE doesn't want to add another Umbra, but people still want an Umbra for their favorite frame, why not just add a mod or operator ability/arcane that gives us AI warframes like for Umbra? That way, we get what's basically an Umbra for the people who want it, but Excalibur Umbra keeps his uniqueness because he has a special questline and functions by himself by default.

While that wouldn't be the exact same thing as an Umbra, you really didn't think DE was going to make a questline showing every Umbra frame ever added as alive, did you? 

Edited May 31, 2022 by (XBOX)Upl0rdYT

[EDM774]

about the time we got Lua Disruption DE were planning on implementing an item what later got scrapped and became the Lua Lens in the drop tables, that would allow any frame to be umbra for 24 hours.

Backlash ensued and we have the Lua lens now instead of a 24 hour umbra token.

Edited May 31, 2022 by EDM774
spelling

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

6 minutes ago, EDM774 said:

about the time we got Lua Disruption DE were planning on implementing an item what later got scrapped and became the Lua Lens in the drop tables, that would allow any frame to be umbra for 24 hours.

Backlash ensued and we have the Lua lens now instead of a 24 hour umbra token.

Tbh that sounds pretty horrible, imagine trying to buy an item with a super low drop chance just for it to work for 24 hours. There likely were multiple reasons for backlash in that case. Pablo recently did a Q and A and Umbra frames were brought up, but no plans are there for them, likely because how WOULD you farm an Umbra frame and Pablo saying because they would need to add one for every frame. This Q and A shows that people definitely still want more Umbra frames even after several years. I doubt it would be hard to add a mod or arcane that makes warframes use specter technology when the operator exits the frame, hence my post.

Edited May 31, 2022 by (XBOX)Upl0rdYT

[Xaero]

On 2022-05-31 at 2:47 PM, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

So if DE doesn't want to add another Umbra, but people still want an Umbra for their favorite frame, why not just add a mod or operator ability/arcane that gives us AI warframes like for Umbra? That way, we get what's basically an Umbra for the people who want it, but Excalibur Umbra keeps his uniqueness because he has a special questline and functions by himself by default.

Rather than wasting any slot, I'd like it to be activated/deactivated via Helminth at the cost of some resource.

Like what they planned with echoes but permanent and revertible.

And to keep a special touch for Excal Umbra we could have a gear item that allows us to switch his sentience on/off mid-mission.

Edited June 1, 2022 by Xaero

[Xaero]

Also, alternative Umbral skins for Primes would be a welcome addition.

[FishMcCool]

I'd love to see a Wukong Umbra, if only for the forum fallout. 🤣

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

1 hour ago, Xaero said:

Rather than wasting any slot, I'd like it to be activated/deactivated via Helminth at the cost of some resource.

Like what they planned with echoes but permanent and revertible.

And to keep a special touch for Excal Umbra we could have a gear item that allows us to switch his sentience on/off mid-mission.

That would work, but then there's no "punishment" for making your frame sentient, which would make Umbra special only because of Umbra forma and being obtained first, as opposed to needing a mod or arcane to make other frames use ai and Umbra having it as his passive. Maybe you could make the helminth thing take up your helminth slot (as in you can't use helminth but it won't replace any of your abilities and in exchange your frame is sentient like Umbra.)

Edited June 1, 2022 by (XBOX)Upl0rdYT

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

in truth i dont see how an UMBRA de-values a PRIME, ie how its better , per your earlier post

10 hours ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

 

sorry if this is a bit much, but wanted to clarify stuff, as they are separate variations on parallel  , ive had this discussion plenty of times and it seems overly biased, so.. let me explain my thinking

(mind you i am an umbra fan ) 

Umbra VS Prime 

Spoiler

prime - have polarities and unique power animation , Prime passive ,(death orb energy) 

umbra- have polarities (an umbra polarity )  , unique power animation. Umbra passive - sentient debuff

now its true umbras have a specter ai mode as an additional power, but mind you this is both good & Bad its a classic double edge sword 

Prime &  Umbra VS Implementation in combat: I bring this in terms of strategy and battle/ both IRL based and game based 

Spoiler

Primes: 

now each of these types have a combat system in mind , for orokin the primes are an elite guard of sorts so when in an orokin tower or area thats orokin themed there are death orbs that provide energy to it & its squad . this is very useful in terms of defensive tactics that a single prime can then proxy power non primes to aide in combat and defense or assault on a "home base" concept for its battle implementation 

this can be seen in the  (spoiler below) trailer with excal prime that prime frame specifically were geared to work together in this way , mind you any frame is a army onto itself , but in combat against the sentients this setup provides a maximized combat flow to provide these frames with energy and powers to combat the void weak sentients 

this is to not say primes are only good on orokin areas, but they have a big advantage against any enemy when defending orokin areas. 

Spoiler

 

 

Umbra 

 so now we are on the umbra "strain" or variant , This specific strain derived from the helmith (prime/non prime) is specialized and was one ballas seemed to be in charge of making to further develop warframe tech for the "old war"  (given his involvement in many frames unsurprising).Umbra is a "Sentient Slayer" strain, as its not helmith strain but an altered variation of it, so I refer to it as such ,given its specialization. 

Umbra warframes in this case excalibur Umbra , was derived via an experiment to refine the frame combat efficiency AWAY from orokin areas , more specifically to take the fights to the sentient. there were multiple subjects in this experiment , on this one specifically the dax used as our Excalibur umbra is subject 9 

Excalibur Umbra has increased effectiveness against sentient damage resistance, sentient adaption and can deal extra damage to sentients (lore wise maybe not, as prime pressure point still % stronger in raw damage to  ..well ..everything) . it is specialized in combat to fight sentient specifically , by itself or maybe in small groups 

this frame has an innate umbra polarity and ability to debuf sentients exclusively to that enemy set (if they have energy) 

as seen in the trailer below in spoiler, umbra deals with sentients rather well , and compare it to excalibur primes above combat 

Spoiler

 

given ballas can control and or stop umbra at any time via the transference bolt system installed on umbra , shows that this is probably the method of deployment as then orokin wouldn't need a tenno to command or control them (aka a reason to get rid of the demon children or less risk to them) 

 

Umbra & AI? vs Prime & AI Vs AI frame in general

Spoiler

now lets also bring up the AI specter , this was a passive many wanted as fighting with umbra (prior to us having it) seemed like a cool idea, not gonna lie i still enjoy it

The implementation is rather mixed

• it gets killed a lot
• open to damage
•  not the best in combat
• unlike normal specters can only use 3/4ths of its powers
• accuracy is not always there
• combat attacks can be kind of laggy slow 
• against boss type enemies (eidolons or ect) it gets melted quick
• uses its own void power pool on power attacks  

now if we compare this to wukong (prime and normal) the ai specter is more accurate, more capable as it can use all its powers , bigger health pool, and just overall more effective to a point of AFK playing 

it is very disappointing that de never went back and gave umbras ai an upgrade (IMO)

so in terms of the AI general de did try to implementation as prior stated an ECHOS of umbra , mini power duration for any frame , this sounded cool , untill it was super grindy to get and only Lasted a short time. this also wasnt very lore cannon 

Lore wise we learned from the sacrifice , rhino prime lore, Vitruvian, ballas , ect that ALL FRAMES can fight and do combat for themselves, this was proven in the second dreams stalker vs operator scene 

operators somehow while in the 2nd dream state, were used to mentally ..lobotomize frames, to be used in orokins combat by the asleep tenno , being controlled by lotus 

think of it as tenno asleep were used as a tool to control the wild and untamed frames to easily make them fight for the orokins cause (given they tried to uprise prior) 

as we know orokin arnt unfamiliar with violating human rights, human experiments, ect .

tenno put to sleep were discovered to have the ability to transfer /grab frame bodies they were compatible with while in a coma like sleep state , they then were trained by dax to use weapons and implemented by the orokin.

Umbra excalibur specifically due to his imprisonment, retains his sense of self and wasn't subjected (until sacrifice) to the tenno mind control /mind wipe. as we do have that choice, sadly seems to have nuked is combat effectiveness as prior to operator control umbras ai was very good  

so in truth if de allowed it , any frame given ai should IMO have a toggle, of on/off to have ai active when you go operator mode. and if its a non umbra maybe a new exilus adapter modulate to enable that we earn per frame 

 

hypothesis on umbra straint

Spoiler

his is my generalized concept of the strain

 basically what i rationalize is orokin took a viable strain , in this case the excalibur prime and altered it via genetic engineering to create the umbra strain. Problem with this is genetically excal prime and any other excal primes are all clones (think clone wars) of an original via foundry 3d printer system mass producing them and eco model knock offs aka non primes. as its stands excal prime has not mental awareness and they couldn't fix that due to tenno doing what we did to the frame mentally. so orokin seemed forced to try and sue new subjects with mental awareness to create a new variant that could fight without an operator "possibly" 

the bases of this is to inject foreign DNA of a host type ,aka excal P , into a subject (say 9) would require the receiver to be of a similar genetic strain or else compatible genetically to take the dna alterations and alter the new target to gain the characteristics of excalibur (prime) but with the newer modifications specialized in sentient combat , aka the umbra strain variations.

this also brings an interesting idea that Excalibur Prime is either related to the dax used to make umbra, and/ or the memory system allowed the mental dax of umbra to retain his self, as orokin wanted to probably deploy umbras as remote drones in combat without needing to fully rely on operators

tactically, it makes sense if an army of umbras was dropped on tau or enemy sentient world/bases ect. if Umbras were held by an operator or orokin  mentally , until they could be released and sent to combat foes like a black ops special unit or even suicide squad , given orokin could just clone generate more via foundry . would make them very effective against the sentient. and given umbra was a success , and due to ballas wanting to lock that away he claimed it was a failure else history might have been different , as he was a traitor working with the sentient

 

Edited June 2, 2022 by (XBOX)EternalDrk Mako
cleaned up with spoiler for ease of reading

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

On 2022-05-31 at 3:47 AM, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

So I noticed that a lot of people continually ask DE for more Umbra frames.

 de have said on multiple separate dev streams "MORE UMBRA FRAMES ARE COMMING" " STARTING WITH EXCALIBUR UMBRA" , so they have kind of said flat out they will do more and they will be coming (eventually) 

the issue is not only does de have to now think on how to implement umbra frames in the game (how we obtain/make them) but creating 40+ frame variant is time consuming for their staff so probably it will be like primes and be like one or two at a time if possible 

the major reason DE delayed umbra frames was due to covid along with a bunch of other stuff , stating that the remote work was hard on production and game dev so they focused on what they could do , aka Heart of deimos , angels of zariman, railjack , qol stuff ect

now i dont agree that currently that is a viable excuse , given tencent is now de owner and they have a Varity of studios they are collaborating with under tencent umbrella , its not unreasonable for de to have other studios do asset or other development , as they did that prior, (especially on the sacrifice quest to speed up its release iirc)

But currently the MAJOR goal this year is cross play and then Cross save which is very ambitious and difficult ( they are probably collaborating to get ground work infrastructure for this imo)  

we still have channeling rework , other assets and qol overhauls de hasnt talked on in years , not to mention developing the non operator setup like drifter, grineer, corpus 

imo, de should be expanding and departmentalizing developments on a larger scale so doing one major update dosnt drain the human resources and update of minor releases/content down to nothing  aka the content droughts that always occur with open worlds or major updates 

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

46 minutes ago, (XBOX)EternalDrk Mako said:

in truth i dont see how an UMBRA de-values a PRIME, ie how its better , per your earlier post

sorry if this is a bit much, but wanted to clarify stuff, as they are separate variations on parallel  , ive had this discussion plenty of times and it seems overly biased, so.. let me explain my thinking

(mind you i am an umbra fan ) 

Umbra VS Prime 

  Hide contents

prime - have polarities and unique power animation , Prime passive ,(death orb energy) 

umbra- have polarities (an umbra polarity )  , unique power animation. Umbra passive - sentient debuff

now its true umbras have a specter ai mode as an additional power, but mind you this is both good & Bad its a classic double edge sword 

Prime &  Umbra VS Implementation in combat: I bring this in terms of strategy and battle/ both IRL based and game based 

  Hide contents

Primes: 

now each of these types have a combat system in mind , for orokin the primes are an elite guard of sorts so when in an orokin tower or area thats orokin themed there are death orbs that provide energy to it & its squad . this is very useful in terms of defensive tactics that a single prime can then proxy power non primes to aide in combat and defense or assault on a "home base" concept for its battle implementation 

this can be seen in the  (spoiler below) trailer with excal prime that prime frame specifically were geared to work together in this way , mind you any frame is a army onto itself , but in combat against the sentients this setup provides a maximized combat flow to provide these frames with energy and powers to combat the void weak sentients 

this is to not say primes are only good on orokin areas, but they have a big advantage against any enemy when defending orokin areas. 

  Hide contents

 

 

Umbra 

 so now we are on the umbra "strain" or variant , This specific strain derived from the helmith (prime/non prime) is specialized and was one ballas seemed to be in charge of making to further develop warframe tech for the "old war"  (given his involvement in many frames unsurprising).Umbra is a "Sentient Slayer" strain, as its not helmith strain but an altered variation of it, so I refer to it as such ,given its specialization. 

Umbra warframes in this case excalibur Umbra , was derived via an experiment to refine the frame combat efficiency AWAY from orokin areas , more specifically to take the fights to the sentient. there were multiple subjects in this experiment , on this one specifically the dax used as our Excalibur umbra is subject 9 

Excalibur Umbra has increased effectiveness against sentient damage resistance, sentient adaption and can deal extra damage to sentients (lore wise maybe not, as prime pressure point still % stronger in raw damage to  ..well ..everything) . it is specialized in combat to fight sentient specifically , by itself or maybe in small groups 

this frame has an innate umbra polarity and ability to debuf sentients exclusively to that enemy set (if they have energy) 

as seen in the trailer below in spoiler, umbra deals with sentients rather well , and compare it to excalibur primes above combat 

  Hide contents

 

given ballas can control and or stop umbra at any time via the transference bolt system installed on umbra , shows that this is probably the method of deployment as then orokin wouldn't need a tenno to command or control them (aka a reason to get rid of the demon children or less risk to them) 

 

Umbra & AI? vs Prime & AI Vs AI frame in general

  Hide contents

now lets also bring up the AI specter , this was a passive many wanted as fighting with umbra (prior to us having it) seemed like a cool idea, not gonna lie i still enjoy it

The implementation is rather mixed

• it gets killed a lot
• open to damage
•  not the best in combat
• unlike normal specters can only use 3/4ths of its powers
• accuracy is not always there
• combat attacks can be kind of laggy slow 
• against boss type enemies (eidolons or ect) it gets melted quick
• uses its own void power pool on power attacks  

now if we compare this to wukong (prime and normal) the ai specter is more accurate, more capable as it can use all its powers , bigger health pool, and just overall more effective to a point of AFK playing 

it is very disappointing that de never went back and gave umbras ai an upgrade (IMO)

so in terms of the AI general de did try to implementation as prior stated an ECHOS of umbra , mini power duration for any frame , this sounded cool , untill it was super grindy to get and only Lasted a short time. this also wasnt very lore cannon 

Lore wise we learned from the sacrifice , rhino prime lore, Vitruvian, ballas , ect that ALL FRAMES can fight and do combat for themselves, this was proven in the second dreams stalker vs operator scene 

operators somehow while in the 2nd dream state, were used to mentally ..lobotomize frames, to be used in orokins combat by the asleep tenno , being controlled by lotus 

think of it as tenno asleep were used as a tool to control the wild and untamed frames to easily make them fight for the orokins cause (given they tried to uprise prior) 

as we know orokin arnt unfamiliar with violating human rights, human experiments, ect .

tenno put to sleep were discovered to have the ability to transfer /grab frame bodies they were compatible with while in a coma like sleep state , they then were trained by dax to use weapons and implemented by the orokin.

Umbra excalibur specifically due to his imprisonment, retains his sense of self and wasn't subjected (until sacrifice) to the tenno mind control /mind wipe. as we do have that choice, sadly seems to have nuked is combat effectiveness as prior to operator control umbras ai was very good  

so in truth if de allowed it , any frame given ai should IMO have a toggle, of on/off to have ai active when you go operator mode. and if its a non umbra maybe a new exilus adapter modulate to enable that we earn per frame 

 

hypothesis on umbra straint

  Hide contents

his is my generalized concept of the strain

 basically what i rationalize is orokin took a viable strain , in this case the excalibur prime and altered it via genetic engineering to create the umbra strain. Problem with this is genetically excal prime and any other excal primes are all clones (think clone wars) of an original via foundry 3d printer system mass producing them and eco model knock offs aka non primes. as its stands excal prime has not mental awareness and they couldn't fix that due to tenno doing what we did to the frame mentally. so orokin seemed forced to try and sue new subjects with mental awareness to create a new variant that could fight without an operator "possibly" 

the bases of this is to inject foreign DNA of a host type ,aka excal P , into a subject (say 9) would require the receiver to be of a similar genetic strain or else compatible genetically to take the dna alterations and alter the new target to gain the characteristics of excalibur (prime) but with the newer modifications specialized in sentient combat , aka the umbra strain variations.

this also brings an interesting idea that Excalibur Prime is either related to the dax used to make umbra, and/ or the memory system allowed the mental dax of umbra to retain his self, as orokin wanted to probably deploy umbras as remote drones in combat without needing to fully rely on operators

tactically, it makes sense if an army of umbras was dropped on tau or enemy sentient world/bases ect. if Umbras were held by an operator or orokin  mentally , until they could be released and sent to combat foes like a black ops special unit or even suicide squad , given orokin could just clone generate more via foundry . would make them very effective against the sentient. and given umbra was a success , and due to ballas wanting to lock that away he claimed it was a failure else history might have been different , as he was a traitor working with the sentient

 

I don't think Umbra's sentience was affected by the tenno, because when we confront Ballas, Umbra acts like himself and even is conscious of his surroundings, helping to protect operator from the reemergence of the lotus and getting ready to attack. The reason why he preforms poorly is because the sentience he exhibits in the quest is obviously going to be way better than when he is using subpar specter ai in a mission. DE also didn't do much with him in new war because the quests don't revolve around Umbra anymore and will probably not be seen much since Ballas is now dead (unless this happens when DE gets around to saying how our Warframe made it's way back to our orbiter.)

Also, I always assumed that all warframes are/were sentient except for the default frames where sentience is more of a coin toss because of most regular frames being modern incarnations as opposed to Orokin ones which would explain why they very well could be empty shells at this point.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

6 minutes ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

I don't think Umbra's sentience was affected by the tenno, because when we confront Ballas, Umbra acts like himself and even is conscious of his surroundings, helping to protect operator from the reemergence of the lotus and getting ready to attack. The reason why he preforms poorly is because the sentience he exhibits in the quest is obviously going to be way better than when he is using subpar specter ai in a mission. DE also didn't do much with him in new war because the quests don't revolve around Umbra anymore and will probably not be seen much since Ballas is now dead (unless this happens when DE gets around to saying how our Warframe made it's way back to our orbiter.)

 

that scene when he defends us against ballas  is prior to the choice of  path after we beat ballas

 

and during that cutscene umbra is a statue unable to act on his own 

 im not sure as this is also possibly different due to a conscious choice due to us NOT being in the second dream state and controlled by lotus who obeys orokin instructions , se we might make them normally when awake not lobotomized ? 

7 minutes ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

 

Also, I always assumed that all warframes are/were sentient except for the default frames where sentience is more of a coin toss because of most regular frames being modern incarnations as opposed to Orokin ones which would explain why they very well could be empty shells at this point.

basicly per vitruvian all frames were but orokin couldnt control, then they got us (rhino prime codex) and discovered we can hijack them/mid wipe them and use their bodies 

which lead to the discovery of transference and later the transference bolt development , for long range or extra range i guess? 

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

9 hours ago, (XBOX)EternalDrk Mako said:

that scene when he defends us against ballas  is prior to the choice of  path after we beat ballas

 

and during that cutscene umbra is a statue unable to act on his own 

 im not sure as this is also possibly different due to a conscious choice due to us NOT being in the second dream state and controlled by lotus who obeys orokin instructions , se we might make them normally when awake not lobotomized ? 

basicly per vitruvian all frames were but orokin couldnt control, then they got us (rhino prime codex) and discovered we can hijack them/mid wipe them and use their bodies 

which lead to the discovery of transference and later the transference bolt development , for long range or extra range i guess? 

The part where Umbra defends us is right at the end of Sacrifice, after Umbra tries to stab Ballas, and then we override Ballas' control of Umbra's movement systems when he attempts to freeze Umbra like at the beginning of the quest, and then after we stab him, the sentients come, and they shoot a laser at us where Umbra sees what is happening, moves us out of the way of the laser, and draws his sword (his sword is drawn when he grabs us meaning he pulled it out before we enter his body again). Then the quest ends, but because we kinda tied up all the loose ends of Umbra's story (Umbra thinks Ballas is dead.), I'm assuming DE didn't have a need to make Umbra a major plot point in future quests. (Which makes sense because Ballas can't even get hurt conventionally in the final battle.)

Edited June 2, 2022 by (XBOX)Upl0rdYT

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

15 hours ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

The part where Umbra defends us is right at the end of Sacrifice, after Umbra tries to stab Ballas, and then we override Ballas' control of Umbra's movement systems when he attempts to freeze Umbra like at the beginning of the quest, and then after we stab him, the sentients come, and they shoot a laser at us where Umbra sees what is happening, moves us out of the way of the laser, and draws his sword (his sword is drawn when he grabs us meaning he pulled it out before we enter his body again). Then the quest ends, but because we kinda tied up all the loose ends of Umbra's story (Umbra thinks Ballas is dead.), I'm assuming DE didn't have a need to make Umbra a major plot point in future quests. (Which makes sense because Ballas can't even get hurt conventionally in the final battle.)

basicly umbra reverts to acting like a normal doll frame other than ai in game after that

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

On 2022-05-27 at 12:26 PM, (XBOX)EternalDrk Mako said:

 

its what they said in 152 so its still to come just no current plans. for now they are focused on duviri and the zariman releases along with whatever tennocon is doing 

And thats fine but do we honestly need a 3rd line of Warframes? And with Umbral forma existing: Is it even remotely necessary? Add in Helminth and theirs enough already. 

Even if it's a limited run (Which I would think would only consist of the launch warframes) It's a can of worms that I don't think DE wants to open. Because if they do 8-9 Warframes: The community would request every single Warframe get the "Umbra" Treatment. Yeah, I can see why DE is going "hard pass" on that.

It would basically be 8-9 Frames reskinned and have an altered ability tailored to fight Sentients which outside of a few scenarios: We engage with the least. And an altered ability that you can swap out (or any really) for a better ability to make that warframe better with Helminth. Add in the fact that the stats for these warframes would pretty much be identical to its Primed variant:

Does that sound even remotely necessary? DE would be better off just making "Umbral skins" for Primed Warframes vs doing a 3rd line of Umbra warframes. Because the original intent for Umbra back when The Sacrifice Quest originally launched does not reflect DE's direction with Warframe in 2022. I highly doubt that the direction will have a heavy influence on the Sentients until we head to Tau but even then:

Umbra variant warframes would still not be necessary considering with Umbral Forma: You can make any Warframe an "Umbra Warframe." It would be so much more efficient to just make a skin and be done with it. Is its AI passive that useful? And is the altered ability worth using? Because if its not your still using an Helminth ability regardless to make it a better warframe right? 

So theres no reason to do more, it would be so much easier to make a skin. Less work and more return. 

Edited June 12, 2022 by (XBOX)Cram Duahcim

[Circle_of_Psi]

You know, I have to wonder if there a limit of how many pages a forum post can have