[U21 Megathread] Dual-wield Thrown Melee And Secondary Weapons Feedback

[xXcruxXx]

I'm a huge fan of what you've done here, guys! Yeah, there's glitches where I get stuck in animations if pressing too fast and at times it seems like I get stuck in a throwing animation after doing a slide strike, but you made the glaive types relevant again!! They seemed entirely unused before at midgame and upward.

I really love not having to switch to secondary (which never saw much use before for me). I'm rockin astral twilight and a vaykor marelok and the dual-wielding allows me to do close range aoe (thanks to primed reach its big) and shoot stuff farther off with no switching. It gives a really tactical offensive feel suitable to all warframes, especially those with weak defense.

I love the timing function (though i dont fully understand it, maybe the issue is my red/green colorblindness? I'd love to see something friendly to others with broken eyes, but thats kinda petty of me)

I'm having a lot of fun with this.

[KazeUindo]

After testing myself this is may feedback and Ill keep it short and sweet.

Pros:

It is definitely making me want to use a throwing weapon more than before now that I can use a pistol or pocket rocket launcher.

Cons:

 This kinda feels like a Glaive update other than a dual-wielding update. Also one weapon in particular(may be more) you cannot use its hidden ability in this form(Orvius).

[(PSN)Zaerdra-6]

Personally I think it would be better just to make the switching animations quicker when melee striking with your secondary weapon equiped. Perhaps the speed of this could be different for different combinations so that it massively favours 1 handed meles with 1 handed secondaries. If you want to add new combos like this, why not make them a new melee stance mod for throwing melees that replace blocking and channeling with aiming and shooting for the secondary.

[0_The_F00l]

i am overall liking it , but i do have a request ,

Need the rebound thrown melee mod to auto detect nearest enemies on bounce, its not doing this correctly right now (not sure if this is because of the whirlwind and power throw i have on),

this will make it so very very useful ,

rebound was a very low utility mod earlier , but if i have Punch through + bounces i can really see it shine in closed environments while dual wielding.

[LordDarthDan]

20 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

i am overall liking it , but i do have a request ,

Need the rebound thrown melee mod to auto detect nearest enemies on bounce, its not doing this correctly right now (not sure if this is because of the whirlwind and power throw i have on),

this will make it so very very useful ,

rebound was a very low utility mod earlier , but if i have Punch through + bounces i can really see it shine in closed environments while dual wielding.

Power throw removes any homing effects, just so you know.

[0meg4x]

 I really like this Dual-wield idea, have been playing with my dusty old Glaive. Hope to see this new mechanic grow/evolve and not just stay as is.

 As of right now melee attacking is super wonky at least for me because sometimes the game thinks I'm holding down the melee attack key instead and some other times the character keeps melee attacking by itself like crazy.

 

 Oh! Also! When throwing the melee by charging it half way (When the spinning animated reticle appears) the angle of which the Thrown melee goes out makes it super easy for it to hit the ground and go flying elsewhere!

 While a normal throw launches the weapon at the height of the Warframe's head.

Edited July 2, 2017 by 0meg4x
Oh!

[inelegantOdyssey]

What happened to dual wielding swords and pistols?

I feel like I missed something because that was all that was ever shown off with Harrow for the last month and then suddenly we get "JK ONLY THROWN."

Edited July 3, 2017 by inelegantOdyssey

[Shreiko]

I love this addition, please continue support for it with attempts to make newer melees that will eventually attain support for dual wielding have unique skill based mechanics like the new charged throws on thrown melee.

[RobRalneR]

I love the new mechanic! Though I agree it needs more work.

I want this new Glaive mechanic to be expanded to full Glaive melee (no secondaries or primaries).

[LordDarthDan]

2 minutes ago, Rob12772 said:

I love the new mechanic! Though I agree it needs more work.

I want this new Glaive mechanic to be expanded to full Glaive melee (no secondaries or primaries).

What new mechanic are you talking about? I have only seen they took the stance combos and replaced the usual quick melee by these combos. Am I missing something out?

[iDEBz]

Despite being a one handed action when throwing the glaive while reloading the reload gets cancelled. Not sure if its a bug or an oversight. Also can the melee attacks not be queed? I've been locked into the melee animation so many times when trying to throw it after one quick melee. 

[RobRalneR]

5 hours ago, LordDarthDan said:

What new mechanic are you talking about? I have only seen they took the stance combos and replaced the usual quick melee by these combos. Am I missing something out?

I'm talking about the new mechanic that's only usable if you have your secondary and Glaive equipped.

Right now if you only equip the Glaive, it doesn't have the new throwing mechanic (hit the "Sweet spot" while charging for maximum damage) which kinda disappointed me, but I understood that right now DE made it like this just for testing so they can receive feedback and polish it up as much as possible so they can later expand the new mechanic into other melee weapons.

When I said expanding, I meant adding the new throwing mechanic into melee only mode so that we don't have to carry a secondary around just to use it.

About the stance combos, right now none of the Glaive stances use the "Tap E then hold E then etc." input to pull off certain combo moves (you can just simply hold E to initiate that combo move in other melee weapon stances like Gaia's Tragedy for example) and the new throwing mechanic can be easily placed (depends on the devs if they can do it) in those stances and it won't interfere with any combo moves.

Which means if you want to use the new throwing mechanic while in melee only mode, just simply hold E and you'll initiate the new charge mode.  If you want to use melee channeling on your Glaive, then just press the LMB (default key, I think) and throw the Glaive after you charge throw it. If you want to use combo moves, just tap E and either hold down certain buttons or wait a half a second to pull off combo moves. And if you want to block, just press the RMB.

[Prospal]

Yes, I strongly desire for charged throw to become avalible in normal, melee-only mode. That it is possible to use that way only while wielding a pistol is miffing.

I do think that glaive-throwing -not- cancelling the pistol's reload would improve the glaive+pistol gameplay by a whole lot; besides the gameplay-flow improvement, right now there is not a whole lot of mechanical benefits to wielding pistol+glaive (Other than avalibility of charged throw, which... should not be unique to that mode.)

If we could block while wielding pistol+glaive, that would be great. Not necessarily shooting and blocking at the same time, but that would be even better. (Considering the relatively low damage resistance numbers on all one-handed melee, it wouldn't be even particulary balance breaking, but milege may vary. Certanly not worse than Excal's ult damage resistance.)

Finally, the broken "Can't stop melee'ing" thing is an incredibly annoying bug. Fix it. Fix it now. 

Overall, a nice system, despite the problems! Does decently well to freshen up the gameplay a little, which is very good; it was awhile since WF recieved any kind of update to fundamental stuff like movement or gunplay. My opinion will probably sour quite a bit if it is going to be left in it's current state, though.

 

Edited July 4, 2017 by Prospal
Finishing the post, duh.

[(XBOX)ZenithLord 42]

It seems really similar to Dark Sector (duh), but it just doesn't play as well as that game did! 

D.E. needs to make it function just like Dark Sector's glaive if this feature is ever going to be viable. It would also help to have an innate vaccuum feature for where ever the glaive's last bounce was. Which would give throwing weapons more functionality and utility. 

I don't understand why it just can't function in addition to a single secondary as opposed to basically being "quick melee", but clunkier. I thought this feature was supposed to alleviate the problem with the time it took to switch, but I see no added bonus to this feature besides, "oh look, I can has hold sharp things while shooting"! (It worked fine before, glaives just needed a bit more utility...) 

Happy 4th of July, Tenno! 

[DiogoMM]

When I use the vaykor marelok with the cerata it appears with the normal marelok skin, and sometimes invisible. Is anyone having the same problem?

Edited July 4, 2017 by DiogoMM

[(XBOX)AubadePaladin]

Would really be nice to channel while dual wielding. Especially, as mentioned from others; Orvius.

[Felvin]

On 6/29/2017 at 6:46 PM, Goarza said:

Going into melee stance from secondary has character sheath gun with the right hand and then take out glaive again while only secondary needs to be put away.

I think there is no reason for new charge attack to be usable only in the thrown+secondary stance, it could just be an option to use old or new one.

Detonating the glaive by hitting melee button a second time could work with normal charge attack.

And this^ + quick drawing your melee and pistol is much more stylish.

please this or the option to switch what hands hold which feels weird to use a one handed secondary in my left hand

[Insizer]

I've preferred thrown melee over other melees for a long time.  While I like this new capability, there are still some issues.  For some reason it seems that the angle detection cone for a ground pound was narrowed when you dual wield.  The bigger issue for is that it seems that initiating a rainbow throw causes the frame to throw from a lower height than you would with a short throw or a fully charged throw.  I really don't like this as it makes it harder for me throw over short cover and such.  Please fix this.

[Aenris]

Lately i've been getting stuck in the "ready to throw" animation frame, when i'm not charging at all.

I'm just spamming E to attack with combos, but some times i find myself stuck. I have to let go of E and WAIT for a second at least, and THEN the attack happens (and it's a normal one)

am i doing something wrong? or is it a bug?

[Synpai]

TBH thrown weapons need a lot of "DE-vine" intervention.

1) Consistency and Stability: It feels like you should just always have the special throwing effect when you have a throwing weapon equipped. It's so disorienting to be used to throwing a certain way, then not only is the "power up" gone, the Warframe decides to throw from the complete opposite direction (almost back hand) when not using the melee + secondary stance.

2) Mandatory Mods: The explosion and punch-through from power throw should be innate and not cost a mod. (When using rebound the self damage from this is unpredictable.) 

Equally, I'm along the belief that default throw style should be short throw (quick return) and rebound should be the alteration or make these a toggle option to free up space, cause as it stands you have ~3 mods (Power throw, Quick Return/Rebound, Whirlwind) making your throwing weapon a.... throwing weapon and it can't even scale like normal melees (blood rush, Berserker combo counter, etc)

3) Scaling and unique (EFFECTIVE) mods: Combo counter mods. Orbital Strike, Enemy ricocheting, Multishot, Charge damage, Charge life steal, Charge crit damage/chance,Charge explosion range, Throw styles. Anything to make them both effective and stand out.

(I had an issue with the fact that it was more effective for me to run around and melee spam with the stance than to throw my weapon)

4) Channeling: Equipping a thrown melee by itself shouldn't even be a thing anymore; However, I would consider allowing channeling mods to affect the perfect throw or create mods that affect it (see above), because it seems that channeling is significantly less effective than just perfect throwing and this new toy is too fun and pretty to put away.

5) Charge window/cycle: It should probably cycle through the charge again if you hold it, as fast attack speeds make the perfect throw window come up pretty fast, such that you could catch it on the second "cycle" if it didnt automatically throw.

Edited July 8, 2017 by Synpai
Clean up

[LordDarthDan]

3 hours ago, Arandabido said:

Lately i've been getting stuck in the "ready to throw" animation frame, when i'm not charging at all.

I'm just spamming E to attack with combos, but some times i find myself stuck. I have to let go of E and WAIT for a second at least, and THEN the attack happens (and it's a normal one)

am i doing something wrong? or is it a bug?

Both are true. You are doing something wrong (you are not supposed to spam E), but it is also a bug, because everyone does it and DE might need to take that into account when making updates.

[-Bv-Yno]

I could only imagine gunblades added to this. That would be nice

[Windforc3]

On 7/7/2017 at 11:15 AM, Arandabido said:

Lately i've been getting stuck in the "ready to throw" animation frame, when i'm not charging at all.

I'm just spamming E to attack with combos, but some times i find myself stuck. I have to let go of E and WAIT for a second at least, and THEN the attack happens (and it's a normal one)

am i doing something wrong? or is it a bug?

i am facing the same problem

after all the preparation and planing for the forma's on the dual wield weapons and fusing the mods for them which i'm going to use for my dual wield build. Finally getting the hang of play styles (norm throw and charged throw) presented in dual wield and wanting to enjoy what DE has presented us. This bug happens. De pls fix this as it would all be a waste of your effort in releasing this play style. Saddened I am.

[Windforc3]

On 7/2/2017 at 5:40 AM, --Q--DragonSkllzz said:

After some fair amount of usage of the feature and readin others' feedback, here's mine:

Positives:

• New charge throw feels satisfying to use, and it's increased stats and punch through make it worthwhile.
• We can FINALLY throw glaives without a prior melee strike first once more, I might use them again for the first time since charge attacks broke them.
• The spam combo for astral twilight (haven't tested with gleaming talon) is decent, not as strong as full melee, but still powerful enough to use occasionally. Mobility on it is terrible though.

Negatives:

• Charged and aerial throw not accessible in full melee.
• Charged throw starts lower and clips on terrain VERY often, usually bouncing before it seemingly should.
• Bounces have borderline nonexistant enemy tracking, making quick return + power throw practically mandatory.
• No channeled throw for orvius, completely removing it's unique function.
• Secondary completely unusable while using melee.
• Melee spam bug
• Starting an aerial throw and then landing cancels the whole thing, which feels very awkward.
• No gun-melee hybrid combos (melee strike, melee strike, shoot, melee toss, shoot the glaive to explode it (autotargets it) for example).
• Can't use the melee to block while aiming, even though this would seem perfectly logical, ESPECIALLY with glaives/thrown melee.
• Throwing with equipped primary also still requires a melee strike. (would prefer none, just no charged throw and blocking functionality)
• Certain "dual" secondaries can't be dual wielded (castanas, hikou and kunai variants). A lowered firerate would be the only change needed to account for only 1 hand throwing. Unique hybrid combos could include attaching a castana to a glaive to increase the power and size of the blast radius, though this is a little far fetched (just a hopeful suggestion).
• No aiming and charging.

Possible solutions to certain issues:

• Enemy tracking: combine the atomos chaining and halikar homing for slight corrections to deal with moving enemies, add a mod that increases tracking distance.
• Orvius functionality: direct hits from a charged throw orvius transition into it's channeled throw effect, alternatively, manual detonation causes it to seek an enemy within tracking range to perform it's unique function of instead of exploding immediately.
• Charged throw clipping: make the projectile start at the same height as uncharged.
• Aerial throw cancellation: make the charge take priority over swapping air-surface animations. (my best guess, probably not this easy)
• Mobility on melee combo: allow for slightly more movement while using it.
• Aim&charge: allow the throws to take advantage of secondary ads and remove screenshake (it messes it up occasionally).

This is all I could think of for now, though I'll add or remove as I play more. Overall it IS a step forward for the thrown melee category though, but it could be better.

the problem is being reffered here as a "melee spam bug"

[Tyrarl]

On 7/8/2017 at 4:51 AM, Windforc3 said:

i am facing the same problem

after all the preparation and planing for the forma's on the dual wield weapons and fusing the mods for them which i'm going to use for my dual wield build. Finally getting the hang of play styles (norm throw and charged throw) presented in dual wield and wanting to enjoy what DE has presented us. This bug happens. De pls fix this as it would all be a waste of your effort in releasing this play style. Saddened I am.

Getting the same thing. I died multiple times on the Harrow quest because I would try to do melee attacks, but then get stuck in the "wind up" animation, unable to attack, jump, or do anything other than walk, until it finally decided to throw the weapon. It's very annoying and makes this feature unusable because it doesn't happen consistently.

Of all the weapon types they could have done first, they had to choose the Glaive-type and have it break like this. It's disappointing to say the least. I won't be using this dual wielding feature until it's fixed for good.