DE just threw away everything they learned in the last 3 years with Harrow

[BPNPC]

What a terrible frame. DE's frame design has improved significantly in recent years with frames like Ivara and Nidus, and then they completely throw all that away with Harrow.

He's probably the worst frame DE has ever released, and I say "probably" because I wasn't around for Oberon and Hydroid releases. Let's ignore the fact that headshots is a buggy mechanic that doesn't register half the time. His abilities are a mix of "why" with plain terrible. Why does Thurible require you to swing a yoyo for 20s, preventing you from playing the game? Why does Penance eat all your shields for a negligible buff? Why do you have to compete for kills to get energy? Why was Penance nerfed on release despite the fact it's underpowered to begin with? Why does all his abilities have massive casting animations?

I'm honestly amazed DE can seemingly make such great strides forward in frame development, then prove they actually learned nothing by releasing a frame as terrible as Harrow.

No doubt people will tell me that I simply don't know how to play Harrow, or that it's too soon to make a judgement. I honestly feel bad for people who bought him with plat.

POST-BUFF: I stand by everything I said. He's still terrible.

Edited July 5, 2017 by BPNPC

[cookieknife]

hes the crit frame lol

[aligatorno]

[xXx_mtv_xXx]

His biggest weakness is the fact that shields are useless against procs like toxin and slash. DE should have released shield gating before this frame.

[(PSN)SaintRain459]

I'm looking forward to doing the quest and seeing what harrow can do. I saw that he can make lovely crits and I love crits. But since I don't have him I cannot make judgement or form an opinion yet. I do suggest trying him out in different mission types and scenarios to see where you like him best

[Evanescent]

lols in silence

[iMalicious]

Meh I don't see much wrong with him, did 3 hours in MOT with a couple friends without much problems before having to leave for work. I do agree on them nerfing his penance duration though and setting it to a 60 seconds max, having a buff that can be easily stacked pretty much destroys duration stats on mods and honestly having a buff up for possibly 5+ minutes is just ridiculous.

Edited July 5, 2017 by iMalicious

[Airwolfen]

All I can say is that this is a frame for people who like to support AND micromanage. Those who don't enjoy that simply will not like the frame.

[TotallyLagging]

His problem is that he's released half-baked (no shield gating + placeholders everywhere) and possibly barely tested at all.

 

I do agree that his cast animations are too long though. It wasn't that bad because his abilities last pretty long, at least until they capped Penance. Why aren't we allowed to have a firerate and reload buff that lasts for 5 minutes but I get to run around with WoF or Hysteria active for 20 minutes? 

 

I seriously hope Pablo is giving him a proper treatment in the upcoming hotfix. 

[LSG501]

13 minutes ago, iMalicious said:

I do agree on them nerfing his penance duration though and setting it to a 60 seconds max, having a buff that can be easily stacked pretty much destroys duration stats on mods and honestly having a buff up for possibly 5+ minutes is just ridiculous.

Removing infinite stacking I agree with but I think 'nerfing' it to 60 seconds is maybe a little too short though.... mind you I also feel they need to increase the duration of his 4's invulnerability phase by a couple of seconds, it's no different to rhino's iron skin for example when you think about it, and make him a bit faster (movement, because running hardly seems faster than walking, and casting speeds for 3 and 4)

[aligatorno]

1 minute ago, TotallyLagging said:

 

I do agree that his cast animations are too long though. It wasn't that bad because his abilities last pretty long, at least until they capped Penance. Why aren't we allowed to have a firerate and reload buff that lasts for 5 minutes but I get to run around with WoF or Hysteria active for 20 minutes? 

Penance has not only fire rate and reload buff, but also attack speed and HEAL on every hit, turning everything into a low to no cost Lifestrike. So we get 4 really good buffs, for not so much energy whose duration can be refreshed constantly. Also it is not a channeled ability. 

Hysteria in its current form can't stay more than a few minutes active without having Arcane Energize because the cost it too high. 

[S0V3REiGN]

I like the frame, I think it's because it keeps me engaged. I do very much agree with some of your gripes though, the casting speeds are abysmal. Timers on all abilities are bad too, low energy pool on a caster frame is strange. A pure support frame that needs to rely on its own dps to be effective it's a huge head scratcher when you consider that the true dps frames in this game delete entire rooms before you can even aim for a headshot.

[theMongoose]

You really don't need to swing thurible around that long to get a good amount of energy back. I usually go to 10 energy per kill. If you're getting headshots that's 40 energy per kill. Only takes maybe 5s to get to with my build. Most frames energy bars are full after a handful of kills. I don't see why people waste a huge amount of energy to get 20+ energy per kill. No blow your whole only to have to work to get it back. There are plenty of enemies running around to chain up and blow their heads off at your leisure.

[Eldnacpeek]

3 hours ago, TotallyLagging said:

I seriously hope Pablo is giving him a proper treatment in the upcoming hotfix. 

 

Rebecca just said "tweaks" on Twitter regarding Harrow for this week's Hotfix, but that leaves me apprehensive and wondering if I should stop investing Forma right now because of impending heavy change.

[TotallyLagging]

Just now, aligatorno said:

Penance has not only fire rate and reload buff, but also attack speed and HEAL on every hit, turning everything into a low to no cost Lifestrike. So we get 4 really good buffs, for not so much energy whose duration can be refreshed constantly. Also it is not a channeled ability. 

Hysteria in its current form can't stay more than a few minutes active without having Arcane Energize because the cost it too high. 

Can be refreshed constantly by sacrificing energy and all of your only meaningful way to defend yourself. I'd say it's a fair trade off.

 

And you can stay in Hysteria long enough to kill a lot of enemies and get energy drops. Perhaps it won't last for 20 minutes in one cast, but 3-5 minutes with a few seconds of pauses inbetween is basically the same thing.

[Jackviator]

Yo how 'bout instead of dev-bashing, maybe it'd be a better idea to actually think up some constructive feedback and post in in the appropriate section.

For example: Perhaps Thurible should have a quicker conversion time so you don't have to be swinging the incense around for so long, and maybe Penance should have its cap removed.

Also, there should be more team synergy with Harrow, because as-is having a team alongside you is actually detrimental while playing as him due to them killing stuff he needs to be killing, similar to the problems Nidus has.

Edited July 5, 2017 by Jackviator

[Kronxito]

4 hours ago, BPNPC said:

What a terrible frame. DE's frame design has improved significantly in recent years with frames like Ivara and Nidus, and then they completely throw all that away with Harrow.

He's probably the worst frame DE has ever released, and I say "probably" because I wasn't around for Oberon and Hydroid releases. Let's ignore the fact that headshots is a buggy mechanic that doesn't register half the time. His abilities are a mix of "why" with plain terrible. Why does Thurible require you to swing a yoyo for 20s, preventing you from playing the game? Why does Penance eat all your shields for a negligible buff? Why was Penance nerfed on release despite the fact it's underpowered to begin with? Why does all his abilities have massive casting animations?

I'm honestly amazed DE can seemingly make such great strides forward in frame development, then prove they actually learned nothing by releasing a frame as terrible as Harrow.

No doubt people will tell me that I simply don't know how to play Harrow, or that it's too soon to make a judgement. I honestly feel bad for people who bought him with plat.

Just lol.... Harrow is a great frame. The fact you dont know how to use him is a completely different thing.

I bought the bundle with plat and i am extremely happy with him. 

Edited July 5, 2017 by DP_KRoM

[Tesseract7777]

8 minutes ago, aligatorno said:

Penance has not only fire rate and reload buff, but also attack speed and HEAL on every hit, turning everything into a low to no cost Lifestrike. So we get 4 really good buffs, for not so much energy whose duration can be refreshed constantly. Also it is not a channeled ability. 

Hysteria in its current form can't stay more than a few minutes active without having Arcane Energize because the cost it too high. 

Penance buffs melee attack speed too? Im not saying you are wrong, just dont see it on the wiki. If you have tested and found it does so he is even better than I realized.

[aligatorno]

Just now, Tesseract7777 said:

Penance buffs melee attack speed too? Im not saying you are wrong, just dont see it on the wiki. If you have tested and found it does so he is even better than I realized.

It does, yes. I`m not sure if it is a bug or intended, but right now it buffs the attack speed at the same rate as the fire rate. 

[Eldnacpeek]

3 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Penance buffs melee attack speed too? Im not saying you are wrong, just dont see it on the wiki. If you have tested and found it does so he is even better than I realized.

 

It does.

[-Temp0-]

37 minutes ago, cookieknife said:

hes the crit frame lol

So?

How that exactly excuses a long-a** animations or the need to literally do everything himself in order to 'support' his team?

Quote

Meh I don't see much wrong with him, did 3 hours in MOT with a couple friends without much problems before having to leave for work

Long a** animations and the need to kill everything himself in order to support anyone are his problems. Thurible is actually effing ridiculous. He just stands there like an idiot, in the middle of a fight for 10+ seconds.

Quote

You really don't need to swing thurible around that long to get a good amount of energy back. I usually go to 10 energy per kill.

Even that is too long.

The only time it somewhat doesn't bother is in defense between the rounds.

Edited July 5, 2017 by -Temp0-

[Tesseract7777]

4 minutes ago, aligatorno said:

It does, yes. I`m not sure if it is a bug or intended, but right now it buffs the attack speed at the same rate as the fire rate. 

 

3 minutes ago, LazerSkink said:

 

It does.

Wow that's crazy. Along with Covenant also working for melee, and melee kills and headshots counting for thurible, he really is much less the "gun frame" I thought he would be, but is actually way more capable of making use of melee. I originally expected he would be very poor at melee in general. 

3 minutes ago, -Temp0- said:

So?

How that exactly excuses a long-a** animations or the need to literally do everything himself in order to 'support' his team?

Long a** animations and the need to kill everything himself in order to support anyone are his problems. Thurible is actually effing ridiculous. He just stands there like an idiot, in the middle of a fight for 10+ seconds.

You can move around in thurible... in fact, you can do pretty much every mobility movement short of bullet jumping while in thurible. You don't have to just "stand there like an idiot". 

[TotallyLagging]

7 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Penance buffs melee attack speed too? Im not saying you are wrong, just dont see it on the wiki. If you have tested and found it does so he is even better than I realized.

It does. I guess they just count firerate buffs as attack speed on melee.

 

^shhhhhh...

[-Temp0-]

Quote

You can move around in thurible

So? Who actually cares about that? It won't do you any good. You can't fire and you can't move fast, all movement is limited.

I didn't pick up a warframe to stand around swinging a smelly crp while ccing the whole room so my potato teammates have the easier time aiming on stunned enemies. And by giving them that opportunity you also shooting yourself in the foot becuase you still need to do all the killing to receive the buffs and give it to them. Idiotic concept. 

You also sacrifices all shileds like once or twice per minuite. In a middle of a fight. What an effing great idea.

[aligatorno]

1 minute ago, -Temp0- said:

 

You also sacrifices all shileds like once or twice per minuite. In a middle of a fight. What an effing great idea.

If only there was a way to instantly get those shields back ... hmmm ...