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DE just threw away everything they learned in the last 3 years with Harrow

BPNPC

By BPNPC,
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Airwolfen

Airwolfen

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, aligatorno said:

If only there was a way to instantly get those shields back ... hmmm ...

And if only there was a way to be invulnerable while doing so.

-----------

But that basically comes down to what I said before

46 minutes ago, Airwolfen said:

All I can say is that this is a frame for people who like to support AND micromanage. Those who don't enjoy that simply will not like the frame.

heavy micromanagement. but that does not have to equal bad design. My only real problem is being rooted in place with these animation lengths.

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Tesseract7777

Tesseract7777

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, -Temp0- said:

So? Who actually cares about that? It won't do you any good. You can't fire and you can't move fast, all movement is limited.

I didn't pick up a warframe to stand around swinging a smelly crp while ccing the whole room so my potato teammates have the easier time aiming on stunned enemies. And by giving them that opportunity you also shooting yourself in the foot becuase you still need to do all the killing to receive the buffs and give it to them. Idiotic concept. 

You also sacrifices all shileds like once or twice per minuite. In a middle of a fight. What an effing great idea.

I'm not saying they shouldn't tweak thurible, just pointing out that you can indeed move around while channeling it. 

IMO they should add some kind of stagger and impact damage aura maybe about 3m around him while he channels thurible to protect him more, and I would about double the casting speed/conversion speed.

I would also allow allies kills and headshots within thurible to count as well, even if at reduced effectiveness compared to Harrow himself to balance it. 

I would cut down the casting animation of penance by half by making it take all shields at once instead of two chunks, and they either need to remove the duration cap, or make extra shields past the cap flow into increased fire rate/reload speed/lifesteal or something, gotta make it useful. 

Super decrease the casting animation on Covenant, etc, etc. 

There are tweaks he could use, and I am waiting to see what they do this week and test it out before I complain too much more, as I have already said my piece twice in two very lengthy posts in the official feedback thread for Harrow, that I know they read. Time will tell what changes they make, and how much they listened to our first round of feedback. 

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aligatorno

aligatorno

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

 

Here are your buffs. 

 

Penance

  • Increased Duration from Shields by 25%
  • Increased Duration cap from 60 seconds to 120 seconds
  • Increased Fire Rate from 25% to 35%
  • Increased Reload Speed from 50% to 70%

Thurible

  • Increased Range from 15m to 20m
  • Sped up Energy Channeling by 50%
  • Energy Channeling speed is now affected by Natural Talent

Covenant

  • Increase Crit per 100 Damage from 1.25% to 1.5%
Edited by aligatorno
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(PSN)theelix

(PSN)theelix

Posted
Posted

Immense overreaction, the frame is fine. 

If you want to argue headshots are a buggy mechanic, you also better acknowledge that while they don't register a quarter of the time, half the time they do register just fine and the final quarter they register when there's no logical way they should have. Like during low arching melee attacks, radial procs from syndicate weapons, Kubrow kneecap melee attacks, and so many more things. 

You don't have to swing Thurible around for twenty seconds unless you're just doing it for S#&$s and giggles. Ten, even five is enough. It's not meant to be used to regain tons of energy from one opponent, but rather to use against a mass. 

Penance is not a minor buff, it is quite powerful on the right weapons as well as giving you the ability to heal your allies from distances comparable to Trinity's blessing. 

He's bent to teamplay and is relegated to sitting in the back behind his team, so all of his casting animations are fine being long. If you're planning to run pubs and complain his abilities put you at a disadvantage and "preventing you from playing the game" it's just that you're running in a group with no teamwork. 

So, yes. It's too soon to make a judgment because no where in your post did you mention how he was bad at his role in teamplay, but instead just called him terrible, complained about a bunch of minor things and left no substantial feedback. 

But whatever yo, complain more about the frame that's been out barely over a week as if DE's going to suddenly make nothing but S#&$ frames forever now. 

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DrBorris

DrBorris

Posted
Posted

Hm it would appear I disagree almost completely with you...

 

Harrow is not a "bad" Warframe, his only issues IMO are in him not suiting the Support role very well, but on his own he is a very capable Warframe. 

 

Maybe, just maybe, you don't like Harrow. There is nothing wrong with that, everyone is bound to have a different opinion about a Warframe. For example I have a ton of fun while playing Banshee (generally run Silence centered builds), despite most people disliking her for everything except for Sound Quake. 

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O.O_

O.O_

Posted
Posted
58 minutes ago, BPNPC said:

I honestly feel bad for people who bought him with plat.

You should feel bad for those who try to get his systems in the worst mission in WF's existence...

Pay to not get insanely bored and frustrated.

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DefectiveMagus

DefectiveMagus

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Airwolfen said:

If only there was a way to instantly get those shields back ... hmmm ...

Aaaand another buff for the sentinels one might say...i mean the sentinels keep getting more and more useful with every patch,while kubrows from the start were just meh.

And here is how my Harrow gameplay is so far:

-Keeps running after teammates catching up to them

-finally spots a group of enemies coming my way

-goes behind the corner to channel the thingie and to give myself the buff

-peaks out from corner only to see that all of the coming enemies were slaughtered by my teammates while i was in the corner preparing myself.

Also its really funny when you get oneshotted by a bombard,nullifier,napalm and so on :) 

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(PSN)theelix

(PSN)theelix

Posted
Posted
Just now, Kjahla81 said:

I love Harrow so my plat was well spent.  

Best way I found to use thurible is hit 4 then 3. That way I can absorb damage and swing away. I never go above 10 to be safe. 

It's like people forget that Harrow has an ability that gives invulnerability while you use your 2 and 3... 

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aligatorno

aligatorno

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Airwolfen said:

They be lookin nice

They are indeed. The Reload speed is real :crylaugh: And we still have attacks speed , which is awesome. 

Thurible is incredibly fast now, so watch your energy bar when channeling it guys. 

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Airwolfen

Airwolfen

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, AoBaka said:

Aaaand another buff for the sentinels one might say...i mean the sentinels keep getting more and more useful with every patch,while kubrows from the start were just meh.

And here is how my Harrow gameplay is so far:

-Keeps running after teammates catching up to them

-finally spots a group of enemies coming my way

-goes behind the corner to channel the thingie and to give myself the buff

-peaks out from corner only to see that all of the coming enemies were slaughtered by my teammates while i was in the corner preparing myself.

Also its really funny when you get oneshotted by a bombard,nullifier,napalm and so on :) 

:O I stole someone elses quote. neat

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Airwolfen

Airwolfen

Posted
Posted
Just now, Miser_able said:

The only time I ever have problems with headshots not registering is when it's really laggy or if my aim is bad. Which one are you? 

In my case

Option 3. My kohm is not the best sniper in existence :clem:

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Tesseract7777

Tesseract7777

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, aligatorno said:

 

 

Here are your buffs. 

 

Penance

  • Increased Duration from Shields by 25%
  • Increased Duration cap from 60 seconds to 120 seconds
  • Increased Fire Rate from 25% to 35%
  • Increased Reload Speed from 50% to 70%

Thurible

  • Increased Range from 15m to 20m
  • Sped up Energy Channeling by 50%
  • Energy Channeling speed is now affected by Natural Talent

Covenant

  • Increase Crit per 100 Damage from 1.25% to 1.5%

Overall really good changes, but I see they have ignored people's request to make allies kills count for thurible. 

IMO that is the one thing still needed, perhaps needed more than the rest. It doesn't affect him solo, and if you are in a team with clannies or people who you are friends with, etc, then you may be organized enough that it isn't a problem. 

But in the majority of the game, just random pickup games, it can often be feast or famine, which means I'm either getting most of the kills (so what's the point?) or I'm wasting all the energy I spent on thurible. 

Meh, wish they would do something about that, but apart from that the changes look excellent. 

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Kjahla81

Kjahla81

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, aligatorno said:

They are indeed. The Reload speed is real :crylaugh: And we still have attacks speed , which is awesome. 

Thurible is incredibly fast now, so watch your energy bar when channeling it guys. 

Reload speed plus Tigris Prime....FTW!!!!

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0zryel

0zryel

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Airwolfen said:

All I can say is that this is a frame for people who like to support AND micromanage. Those who don't enjoy that simply will not like the frame.

This.

Also, I seen players play him like this and they look incredible doing it. Make hard nightmare missions effortless... but then again I could be mistaken and I just got lucky enough to play with really Pro-Warframe players at does moments. Wish I could have recorded so you guys could see what I mean, those Harrow players were reaaally good! :shocked:

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Airwolfen

Airwolfen

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, aligatorno said:

They are indeed. The Reload speed is real :crylaugh: And we still have attacks speed , which is awesome. 

Thurible is incredibly fast now, so watch your energy bar when channeling it guys. 

Just sacrificed 30 of my 80 power strength for cast speed and I dont think I'm going to miss it actually o.O

with thurible now scaling with it fully it feels like a great mod to equip

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DxAdder

DxAdder

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, BPNPC said:

What a terrible frame. DE's frame design has improved significantly in recent years with frames like Ivara and Nidus, and then they completely throw all that away with Harrow.

He is a way better support frame than Oberon will ever be.

It a well balanced frame.

 

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MirageKnight

MirageKnight

Posted
Posted (edited)

As someone that farmed Harrow's parts through trial and error, I can honestly say that the drop rates for said parts are bit random. I didn't care for the fact that once again, we have another quest 'Frame whose parts are only obtainable outside the quest and with no ingame clue - that I'm aware of -  as to where to get said parts. That's not helpful to players at all and it sullies an otherwise great quest.

DE, Inaros is a great example "quest 'Frame" whose obtainability is, arguably, done just right. With Harrow, you really dropped the bomb with regard to how you get him.

That being said, Harrow a very competent CC / support 'Frame with good and interesting synergy to his skills although said skills do require a bit of careful timing. I can honestly say that Harrow is definitely not for everyone - he requires a bit more effort ingame to get effective use out of him, but for me at least, he's definitely worth the 2 Forma I've put into him already.

Quote

He is a way better support frame than Oberon will ever be. 

Eh - that's highly debatable. While Oberon has problems with "forced synergy", he can be a very useful asset in terms of keeping other 'Frames in the fight. Harrow can't keep near-continuous heal + damage reduction on 'Frames like Oberon can - although mind you that's assuming you're using a "Rage build" with Oberon - and Harrow certainly can't remove status effects. 

Harrow and Oberon provide valuable support in different ways...and Oberon is far better at support than he used to be.

Edited by MirageKnight
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