Are Nidus and Octavia overpowered or is everyone else under powered and not as well designed?

[PsiWarp]

8 hours ago, aligatorno said:

1. She can stay invisible indefinitely by constantly refreshing her buff, and has the longest duration of the stealth bunch. 

2. Her Mallet, #1 skill, is an indefinitely scaling ability that shoots back the damage it receives at the enemies. Meaning that no matter the enemy's levels, he'll get damaged a lot. Go and put a Mallet in the middle of a mob and see how easy they all go down.  Amp basically doubles its already high range and up to sextuple its damage.

And also,

3. Resonator basically shuts off enemy AI. You can't die if your enemies won't fight you.

[(XBOX)Tanta Cinta]

I don't see them at all on Xbox One. Nidus was cool for a few months and then that was it - Back to my regular setup. Octavia was more complex and harder to understand for some players. Many prefer different ways to play to the game so I suppose Octavia can be a powerful force if used correctly and built correctly.

[(PSN)zeroexalpha]

Nidus and Octavia are both brilliantly designed. Scaling frames are what we need more of in a endlessly scaling game. 

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

mm.  I don't enjoy calling things overpowered.  Warframe in my opinion is a numbers game.  And that us as players are tasked with finding out different ways to bend/break the game to our will.  I feel like the inclusion of rivens that it further shows DE is either far too deep with scaling to back out now.  OR they want to further show that this is a numbers game.  But to keep it interesting they give us flashy/visually appealing toys to mow down things with so it doesn't feel like a numbers game.

To me I feel that to call something over powered in this game you have to measure what it can do versus what is required to do it.  Something like mirage with pre nerf synoid simulor borders close to the over powered area.  Where as someone like nidus/octavia are closer to "balance" because they involve micromanaging your abilities.  Like yeah.  You can say "all nidus does is press 1."  But he needs his patch down to be alive in higher content.  and he needs to be linked to an enemy or his stacks will burn away with undying too often.  and both require stacks. along with his passive.  which means you need to constantly group enemies with your ability and then hit 1.

Just as you can say "all you have to do is spam crouch with octavia and be invisible forever." though in reality she needs her other 3 abilities to keep the enemies from firing in here area.  and amping damage so her and her allies can mash up the enemies.

There is currently only 1 frame in the game in my opinion that can even be considered close to overpowered.  Trinity.  I really shouldn't have to explain why.  Anyway.  Even though i'm saying this I don't think she needs to be nerfed or changed.  I feel like she fulfills a role now.  That being "babies first support."  She offers unlimited energy easily.  which makes cc even easier to spam.  and for some frames energy is their life source due to quick thinking.  And she gives full health+ Damage reduction.  But no CC of her own.  no damage or damage buffing.  Also.  She doesn't really "break" any content ever since energy as a whole became easier to come by.  and survival as well.  If we existed in a time where she was the only viable support and she was absolutely required to get through end content I would say she would be broken.  But at least in this current state of the game she's not.

But anyway I believe you're feeling this way because in general newer frames are being made to scale specifically with the enemy.  and most older frames don't.  they either need CC or some kind of augment to make them "feel" okay in much higher content.  I don't think this makes them overpowered.  Rather it just shows that old frames are old.  But I still don't think any old frame sans maybe hydroid/zeyphr feel bad in end game.

Hell my rhino I just plunked 3 forma into today and with some augments he's practically unkillable. My mag also scales stupidly well with magnatize.  IMO DE has done a fantastic job with reworks.

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

9 hours ago, PsiWarp said:

And also,

3. Resonator basically shuts off enemy AI. You can't die if your enemies won't fight you.

It's like having Djinn, but for a full minute instead of every ten seconds.

[Rakosta_Kai]

I would definitely call those frames "future proofed" currently. Absent that, I would say that they represent playstyles and themes we didn't have and that's a good thing.

The bigger question (to me) is whether they are fun to play and/or fun to play around. Determining truly OP is going to be down to analytics we don't see.

[MartianGHunter]

Octavia and Nidus are not overpowered they are just better suited for scaling content portion of the game the only issue with them is that their gamplay style is terrible Octavia's worse than Nidus's.

By that i mean to scale in the game with Octavia just crouch a few times and watch your timers no interactivity with weapons no parkour skills required just stand there move around a lil bit for the 2hrs of your life which to me sucks.

I much prefer my flawed Vauban with his balls of CC who can get killed at high levels if you don't play smart or tactically. Also love my Chroma who has short periods of vunerabliity whilst you wait to reapply your buffs and he just increases your damage output by alot. Etc etc etc i can go on on about the older frames and how their weaknesses actually make them more fun to play its why when new frames come that are OP people play them forma them but ultimately go back to their flawed frames because ultimately they are more fun to play.

Which is the key part the frame has to be fun to play.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

On July 6, 2017 at 9:45 PM, AugmentedJustice said:

I just finished leveling them both up. UN-potatoed and they are both phenomenal frames. Very impressed with both of them and how sustained their dmg is even at higher levels un potated with decent modset up at best. I kept thinking to myself, are they both overpowered, or are they both so well designed that it gives the illusion of them being OP and it's just that I wish a lot of other frames were designed as well as them.

 

Thoughts?

Not really.

Just some examples:

I can lock down half the map with CC Volt and then enhance every attack type he has and slaughter them.

High-end Slowvas; 'nuff said.

I've seen high-end Frosts do things that make me go "Wtf?"

A simple speed/duration Loki build with just high-end melee can laugh at everything those 2 need to do to keep up in certain game modes.

Equinox is vicious.  

Nidus is fun in a "Hulk Smash" kinda way, and Octavia...she's powerful but I can't get past the fact that she looks like a bird skeleton on speed living in an LSD-enhanced technicolor soundscape nightmare...

[tfninja]

I have Octavia and honestly. how OP she is has somehow turned me off the game. It is like a cheat. She cheapens the entire game for me because anything can be acheived by doing nothing except pressing 1 every 30 seconds. You don't even need to move to pick up blue marbles because energy syphon is plenty. I can't stand her appearance either. I had fun creating music for a day and now I am done with her. Back to Ivara and Loki.

Edited August 7, 2017 by tfninja

[(PSN)Radehx]

On 7/7/2017 at 4:24 AM, Chipputer said:

 

Likewise, I would argue that Nidus is one of the poorest designed frames in the game. His 2, 3, and 4 are fine. His 1 is his fatal flaw. All you do, as Nidus, is spam his 1. You use the other 3 powers when necessary (generally you use 2 to control a group so you can press 1 on them), though his 4 is basically a, "lay this down at a highly trafficked area when it's off cooldown," sort of thing and his 3 is, "decide if you want to be nigh immortal or you want to buff yourself and a party member." He's good but his gameplay devolves into spamming his first power nearly endlessly and, as a result, I cannot view him as anything more than a powerful distraction.

 

Nidus only really shines if you use ALL his abiliites...and don't just focus on spamming his 1. The other abilities aren't "optional", especially at higher levels...they are a mandatory part of his strategy.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

On July 8, 2017 at 7:04 AM, MartianGHunter said:

Octavia and Nidus are not overpowered they are just better suited for scaling content portion of the game the only issue with them is that their gamplay style is terrible Octavia's worse than Nidus's.

By that i mean to scale in the game with Octavia just crouch a few times and watch your timers no interactivity with weapons no parkour skills required just stand there move around a lil bit for the 2hrs of your life which to me sucks.

I much prefer my flawed Vauban with his balls of CC who can get killed at high levels if you don't play smart or tactically. Also love my Chroma who has short periods of vunerabliity whilst you wait to reapply your buffs and he just increases your damage output by alot. Etc etc etc i can go on on about the older frames and how their weaknesses actually make them more fun to play its why when new frames come that are OP people play them forma them but ultimately go back to their flawed frames because ultimately they are more fun to play.

Which is the key part the frame has to be fun to play.

 

6 hours ago, tfninja said:

I have Octavia and honestly. how OP she is has somehow turned me off the game. It is like a cheat. She cheapens the entire game for me because anything can be acheived by doing nothing except pressing 1 every 30 seconds. You don't even need to move to pick up blue marbles because energy syphon is plenty. I can't stand her appearance either. I had fun creating music for a day and now I am done with her. Back to Ivara and Loki.

You see a bit of a radical departure here with these two frames in two key ways (Octavia more than Nidus)

1.  They are power-centric frames that make weapon dependency secondary.

They really, honestly fit Volt's old description of "an alternative to gunplay" which is ironic because Volt is a weapon AUGMENT frame with utility and defensive capabilities.

Weapons are not just financially important to the business model, they add unparalleled replay value by redefining a frame's experience when used effectively and in conjunction with a Warframe's powers.

2.  Giving frames a mechanic to simply and completely stop enemies from attacking in a horde shooter flatlines gameplay and immersion.

The actual combat within the game is meant to be experienced as empowering.  The combat isn't the means to some magical end(game).

The combat IS THE GAME.

If repetitively killing opponents easily and over and over the exact same way without a challenge is how you like your combat, ok.

Or by simply watching timers...

Do these two frames do their jobs well?  Yes.

Is it the type of fun, empowering combat that you enjoy with other frames?  For many, the answer is no.

[Hypernaut1]

Personally, weaknesses make a frame interesting. Being powerful without engaging gameplay is not well designed.

[cookieknife]

On 7/6/2017 at 9:45 PM, AugmentedJustice said:

I just finished leveling them both up. UN-potatoed and they are both phenomenal frames. Very impressed with both of them and how sustained their dmg is even at higher levels un potated with decent modset up at best. I kept thinking to myself, are they both overpowered, or are they both so well designed that it gives the illusion of them being OP and it's just that I wish a lot of other frames were designed as well as them.

 

Thoughts?

octavia is awfully designed lol the only one of her buffs that are easy to get are her crouch 

[(PSN)ghinellil]

On 7/7/2017 at 1:47 PM, kurokaze1998 said:

Nah. They're boring. I prefer the older frame.

For example?

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Older frames dont scale unless reworked.... Newer frames do.

[BlazenFury]

octavia is more fun if you actually make your music fun to listen to. 

 

also, she has CC via Percussion. defense via Nocturne Resonator, and infinite scaling via Mallet and the aforementioned Nocturne

 

toss in Amp with, what, 700% bonus at 30 mins/30 waves, easy, with double range on Percussion? use the 700% to occasionaly snipe big units or eximii as needed. 

 

Equinox and Octavia are probably the two best infinitely scaling frames in the game.

[CephalonBot]

On 7/7/2017 at 10:42 PM, Heatnix. said:

Some have held strong because of the ONE skill that was unique and still powerful such as Nova.

Her 2nd is also pretty unique and powerful, dealing massive damage to entire groups of enemies with the right weapon combos (Tigris), and her 3rd can be used for all sorts of fun in all sorts of places

[Heatnix.]

On 8/7/2017 at 6:14 PM, Ershardia said:

Her 2nd is also pretty unique and powerful, dealing massive damage to entire groups of enemies with the right weapon combos (Tigris), and her 3rd can be used for all sorts of fun in all sorts of places

And, if she didn't have Molecular Prime, her situational 2 and her troll skill 3 would have no weight. My point still stands. And don't get me started with Ember.

[theGlassAlice]

Excalibur, Banshee, Nyx, Valkyr, Trinity, Nova, Volt, Mesa.

[theGlassAlice]

On ‎07‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 10:59 PM, (PS4)ghinellil said:

For example?

Banshee, Valkyr, Trinity, Excalibur, Volt, Mesa, Nyx, Nova,

[BlueberryIsWar]

On 8/7/2017 at 3:18 PM, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

 

You see a bit of a radical departure here with these two frames in two key ways (Octavia more than Nidus)

1.  They are power-centric frames that make weapon dependency secondary.

They really, honestly fit Volt's old description of "an alternative to gunplay" which is ironic because Volt is a weapon AUGMENT frame with utility and defensive capabilities.

Weapons are not just financially important to the business model, they add unparalleled replay value by redefining a frame's experience when used effectively and in conjunction with a Warframe's powers.

2.  Giving frames a mechanic to simply and completely stop enemies from attacking in a horde shooter flatlines gameplay and immersion.

The actual combat within the game is meant to be experienced as empowering.  The combat isn't the means to some magical end(game).

The combat IS THE GAME.

If repetitively killing opponents easily and over and over the exact same way without a challenge is how you like your combat, ok.

Or by simply watching timers...

Do these two frames do their jobs well?  Yes.

Is it the type of fun, empowering combat that you enjoy with other frames?  For many, the answer is no.

Oh. Interesting, in a game were the endgame frame were all about cc ing all the enemies forever you complain about new frames that do that more interactively.

Why is Nyx a endgame frame? Because Nyx can CC all enemies in an insane radius. And be invincible while doing it.

Why is Loki a endgame frame? Because he can CC all enemies in an insane radius and be invisible while doing it.

Why is Excalibur an endgame frame? Because he can CC all enemies in an insane radius ...