[Spoilers] The sacrifice and Margulis.

[kasalaba]

I have a theory that I got from DK's latest video. What if Margulis gave up her body and mind to Natah so she can save the Tenno. It is mentioned by Paladino that Lotus looks like Margulis, but what if she actually is her (in body at least). Because they said that the next quest will shine light on the warframes but not on the infestation specifically. What if umbra is the executioner of the orikin, thus the dark theme? What if umbra was a frame that could defy the orders of the orokin?

What do you think?

Edited July 13, 2017 by kasalaba

[MrMythic]

Lotus mentioned in the second dream (I think) that she took that form because it was familiar to the Tenno, but the actual Margulis was executed before then.

[-Krism-]

Just now, MrMythic said:

Lotus mentioned in the second dream (I think) that she took that form because it was familiar to the Tenno, but the actual Margulis was executed before then.

Yes, Lotus can take multiple forms, and took the oneof Margulis because it's a familiar face for the Tenno.

[kasalaba]

1 minute ago, MrMythic said:

Lotus mentioned in the second dream (I think) that she took that form because it was familiar to the Tenno, but the actual Margulis was executed before then.

That's what we've been told, but what if plot twist? We hear a life line in the teaser. And her lover is speaking. So it could be that.

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

2 minutes ago, MrMythic said:

Lotus mentioned in the second dream (I think) that she took that form because it was familiar to the Tenno, but the actual Margulis was executed before then.

Most people assume she knew Margulis' appearance beforehand, as so far, the only person who really did much for the Tenno after the Zariman Incident was Margulis, who acted as a mother to them, using the Warframes as a rehabilitation project. 

She would be someone pretty much every Tenno would know in one way or another, so it's pretty safe to assume she is taking the form of Margulis.

[AEP8FlyBoy]

I don't know about you guys, but what I'm waiting for is an official Lotus face reveal.

Not those darn glitches we saw a few times.

Edited July 13, 2017 by AEP8FlyBoy

[redeyedtreefrog]

Actual margulis(according to the second dream) was executed by ballas in typical shakespeareian tragedy.

However... ballas is clearly talking to someone; I don't think he's talking to the orokin council either. Nor do I think he's talking to us as the tenno... while it makes some sense for our operator to sacrifice themselves, the game has too many mechanics relying on operators(and too much PoE concept art) to kill them off before the end of the year.

Perhaps he is talking to margulis... she's destined to die anyways via execution, and in fact, that may be the sacrifice that ballas means, in that her being executed is somehow going to let ballas save the tenno by way of turning them into the orokin's anti-sentient army.

I like to fancy that he's talking to the warframes, convincing them to form symbiotic bonds with the tenno willingly... but I find it highly unlikely that's the cate

 

EDIT: Another theory is that perhaps ballas is monologuing; that he is the one contemplating sacrificing his life for the warframes.

Edited July 13, 2017 by redeyedtreefrog

[Gamma745]

30 minutes ago, MrMythic said:

Lotus mentioned in the second dream (I think) that she took that form because it was familiar to the Tenno, but the actual Margulis was executed before then.

Hm, can you show me a link for this. How come I don't remember this part? Video link or quote link, any would do.

[(PSN)CaulusOuranos]

I think a cooler theory is that Stalker has been trying to free the tenno from the lotus'/sentient's control all this time and finally finds a small measure of success resulting in Umbra Excalibur. I could follow this down to a pretty interesting endgame, but alas, my focus lies elsewhere these days. Also, where the lore has gone since the second dream makes that theory pretty much null anyway, right? I think Warframe could use an earth-shattering plot twist or two, to keep things interesting.

[SeaUrchins]

Lotus could be some brain parasite inside Margulis' body.

[Poisonnic]

54 minutes ago, redeyedtreefrog said:

Actual margulis(according to the second dream) was executed by ballas in typical shakespeareian tragedy.

However... ballas is clearly talking to someone; I don't think he's talking to the orokin council either. Nor do I think he's talking to us as the tenno...

...

[Snipped for brevity]

...

EDIT: Another theory is that perhaps ballas is monologuing; that he is the one contemplating sacrificing his life for the warframes.

This is the first time I've seen someone mention Ballas talking to the Orokin Council of Executors. In several of the recent Prime trailers he appears to be doing just that and, perhaps it's just me but he appears to be becoming increasingly jaded towards the Orokin. In several of them, particularly in the Oberon and Valkyr trailers where he seems to be regarding the Orokin way of life as inevitably leading to self-destruction.

From Oberon Prime Trailer: "Greed and denial will seduce any destruction... even our own. We're blind to future consequence..."

From Valkyr Prime Trailer: Starting with "Our long deathless winter has left us numb..." and ending with "... That is why they will destroy us."

 

From the War Within:

[Spoilers]

We know that the miracle of Orokin immortality required the sacrifice of others in the Yuvan Theatres as part of their Continuity.

[End of Spoilers]

 

For this reason I think there is a cause to believe that Ballas is possibly talking to the Orokin Council of Executors. It is entirely possible, and from above seems increasingly likely, that after Margulis' death Ballas has started to become jaded with his way of life and is coming to the realisation that if the Tenno are to survive the Orokin must die. Remember, the Tenno are the last of Margulis that he appears to have left, their destruction would be the destruction of what little he might have left of her. So the "miracle" of the Tenno surviving the Old War would require the sacrifice of the Orokin.

Edited July 13, 2017 by Poisonnic

[EmptyDevil]

13 minutes ago, Poisonnic said:

This is the first time I've seen someone mention Ballas talking to the Orokin Council of Executors. In several of the recent Prime trailers he appears to be doing just that and, perhaps it's just me but he appears to be becoming increasingly jaded towards the Orokin. In several of them, particularly in the Oberon and Valkyr trailers where he seems to be regarding the Orokin way of life as inevitably leading to self-destruction.

From Oberon Prime Trailer: "Greed and denial will seduce any destruction... even our own. We're blind to future consequence..."

From Valkyr Prime Trailer: Starting with "Our long deathless winter has left us numb..." and ending with "... That is why they will destroy us."

 

From the War Within:

[Spoilers]

We know that the miracle of Orokin immortality required the sacrifice of others in the Yuvan Theatres as part of their Continuity.

[End of Spoilers]

 

For this reason I think there is a cause to believe that Ballas is possibly talking to the Orokin Council of Executors. It is entirely possible, and from above seems increasingly likely, that after Margulis' death Ballas has started to become jaded with his way of life and is coming to the realisation that if the Tenno are to survive the Orokin must die. Remember, the Tenno are the last of Margulis that he appears to have left, their destruction would be the destruction of what little he might have left of her. So the "miracle" of the Tenno surviving the Old War would require the sacrifice of the Orokin.

I can agree with this. When reading the Detron Crewman synthesis imprint, i got the vibe that Ballas tricked the other Executors into going along with the proto-Sentient plan, to spite the Orokin Empire for Margulis being executed.

Basically, i'm just saying i can believe a theory, if it is sound enough, that states Ballas got tired of the empire and wants it to end.

Edited July 13, 2017 by EmptyDevil

[xXx_mtv_xXx]

Sacrifice...

Margulis...

MAGRIFICE

[Poisonnic]

30 minutes ago, EmptyDevil said:

I can agree with this. When reading the Detron Crewman synthesis imprint, i got the vibe that Ballas tricked the other Executors into going along with the proto-Sentient plan, to spite the Orokin Empire for Margulis being executed.

Basically, i'm just saying i can believe a theory, if it is sound enough, that states Ballas got tired of the empire and wants it to end.

I'm unsure as to whether the Sentients or the Tenno came first as we lack a time scale with both events on, both the Sentients and the Zariman were supposed to go to the Tau system so I get the impression the Sentients were first but it might be possible they were the response to the "accident".

From Saryn Prime's trailer it is not so subtly suggested that Ballas took a personal hand in directing the Tenno and Warframe project more for Margulis than anyone else.

Example: "Margulis, from your winter ashes, there has sprung a field of flowers..." And then "... You used to dream of old Earth, didn't you? Bathed in gold and solemn blue. I intend to reclaim it now..."

Evidently Ballas wanted to purge Earth of the infestation not because the Orokin needed Earth but because Margulis used to dream of it.

 

There is also the unspoken and unanswered question of how exactly the Tenno managed to kill the Orokin off permanently. As evidenced by the Cephalon Fragments' hidden audio that wasn't exactly easy to do.

[Fragment Spoilers]

From the Neptune Fragment: Ballas states, after being killed "How simple and pure you are, you idiot beast. We have died countless times! Yet remain eternal"

[End of Spoilers]

 

So how did the Tenno prevent this from happening?

While I doubt Ballas orchestrated the Orokin downfall I would be not be surprised if it was revealed that he had a hand in enabling it to happen.

 

Edit:

Actually, it has just occurred to me. How did Natah, before she became Lotus, know what Margulis looked like?

She can't have already infiltrated the Orokin while Margulis was alive because she was created by Hunhow specifically to manipulate and eliminate the Tenno. So how did she get Margulis' image?

Why would the Tenno tell a Sentient that when they were spending all their time killing them?

So I'm going to go out on a limb here. And this is probably a long shot.

What if Natah's infiltration failed?

Perhaps the person in the Sacrifice trailer is actually Natah? Besides the Tenno, Ballas would certainly know what Margulis looked, sounded and acted like. He also had the means to give an impostor access to the Tenno.

This is another way of looking at what he is saying: "For their life: Yours"

He isn't necessarily saying you must die so they live. He might be saying, give up everything you are and were. Live solely for them. Which is exactly what Natah did and continues to do, abandon the Sentients and exist solely for the Tenno.

The problem with this theory is... Why would Ballas do this? Maybe he was already thinking about preserving the Tenno after the Old War ended, maybe he already knew the Tenno were planning to kill the Orokin. Who knows. As I said. I feel this idea is a long shot and lacks much in the way of evidence.

Edited July 13, 2017 by Poisonnic
Additional Thoughts

[Guest]

Quick thing about lore here, i know what "The second dream" is, i know its a quest. But the thing im getting confused is, what is the second dream? Is it a state of mind or something like that? And how is lotus able to take different forms? 

I don't want to bring back a dead chat, put with the release of the sacrifice trailer, i think its very necessary

MY POSTS THAT BROUGHT ME TO THIS:

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/853660-umbra-and-shadow-stalker/?tab=comments#comment-9050650

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/853741-sacrifice-trailer/?tab=comments#comment-9050716

 

Edited October 11, 2017 by Guest

[kasalaba]

21 minutes ago, Cameronn__ said:

Quick thing about lore here, i know what "The second dream" is, i know its a quest. But the thing im getting confused is, what is the second dream? Is it a state of mind or something like that? And how is lotus able to take different forms? 

I don't want to bring back a dead chat, put with the release of the sacrifice trailer, i think its very necessary

MY POSTS THAT BROUGHT ME TO THIS:

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/853660-umbra-and-shadow-stalker/?tab=comments#comment-9050650

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/853741-sacrifice-trailer/?tab=comments#comment-9050716

 

"The second dream" is the state our Tenno/operators were. We (the Tenno/kids) were dreaming and within that dream we thought we are the warframes. Then as warframes we were put to sleep. At the beginning of the game our warframe wakes up. Then at the "second dream" quest our Tenno wakes up. We were asleep twice and we woke up twice, like a dream within a dream. Thus the "second dream" term.

As for Lotus we can't really know. It's good to keep in mind that whatever hint's they might have dropped the story of future quests is always subject to change.

So everything we have at this point is speculation.

[PsychedelicSnake]

Please do not necro months-old threads. It's best to start a new thread entirely.