No idea when self reviving was added. Do not like.

[Golmihr]

Ran a public mission yesterday with some random player who kept dying and getting back up again right away even when I tried to rez him at the start. It's like dying has almost no consequence now in most missions. Seems cheesy.

 

[BaIthazar]

1 minute ago, Troll_Logic said:

Nope.  Again, it changes the game whether the player chooses to use it or not.

wether a teammate decides to use his revive himself should not be of concern to you.

in the end, it is a good addition to the game that keeps up the fast paced nature and allows people to get up faster when their teammates are not close by or decide not to revive you

[Troll_Logic]

Just now, Tangent-Valley said:

Hey Moderators. This post is obviously click bait and "Opinion Smashing", and just seems to be devolving from there. Think it's time to delete it yet?

Yeah.  My opinion is being attacked.  I've stated I didn't like the change.  I later stated with examples specifically why I didn't like the change.

I'm not the one accusing others or trying to discredit their opinion.

[NekroArts]

2 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

I explained my reasoning above.

It's not very convincing. I'm gonna honest it sound similar to "nerf synoid simulor because its OP" rather than clearly explaining why synoid simulor should be nerfed i.e. because when used with Mirage players create three sets of non-self explosion damage that clears rooms in mere seconds.

You gave your reason why it needs a penalty, but it lacks details. Is it because it's OP? Why is being able to self-revive should be treated as a harsh punishment?

[Kaokasalis]

1 minute ago, Troll_Logic said:

Nice.  You're trying to discredit my opinion by saying I'm saying that  I'm claiming I'm elitist.

I said no such thing.

No, I said that you are doing a really poor job at explaining why the revive system needs changes. Saying "I dont like that, it makes the game to easy" without any proper reason than just using your own opinion as basis isn't going to convince people.

[Troll_Logic]

1 minute ago, BaIthazar said:

wether a teammate decides to use his revive himself should not be of concern to you.

in the end, it is a good addition to the game that keeps up the fast paced nature and allows people to get up faster when their teammates are not close by or decide not to revive you

It removes a significant penalty from dying.  It removes a a significant penalty from poor teamwork.

The team screws up?  Who cares?  They are right back up 3 seconds later.  Some player runs in radiation and kills the team?  Doesn't matter because the team the right back up and playing.  Team wants to run off during a mobile defense and leaves a single player to defend?  He dies?  Doesn't matter.  He's right back up and defending.

It's a big change.

[BaIthazar]

5 minutes ago, Golmihr said:

Ran a public mission yesterday with some random player who kept dying and getting back up again right away even when I tried to rez him at the start. It's like dying has almost no consequence now in most missions. Seems cheesy.

both the quick revive and normal revive have 4 charges, so if your teammates used up all their quickrevives that's their fault

[Troll_Logic]

2 minutes ago, Hieracon said:

No, I said that you are doing a really poor job at explaining why the revive system needs changes. Saying "I dont like that, it makes the game to easy" without any proper reason than just using your own opinion as basis isn't going to convince people.

Dude, that's all I got.  My opinion.  This isn't cold hard math where I can produce an animated gif of a formula that shows early revives produce a remainder where the game has to end with zero.  I've got my opinion.  You've got yours.  

[BaIthazar]

2 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

It removes a significant penalty from dying.  It removes a a significant penalty from poor teamwork.

The team screws up?  Who cares?  They are right back up 3 seconds later.  Some player runs in radiation and kills the team?  Doesn't matter because the team the right back up and playing.  Team wants to run off during a mobile defense and leaves a single player to defend?  He dies?  Doesn't matter.  He's right back up and defending.

It's a big change.

a good change.

it keeps the pace up, and it's still limited by only having 4 revives so you need to choose between using a quick revive and waiting for your teammates.
if you use a revive when a teammate was on his way, then you wasted a revive.

the players that use their revives the second its available will only hurt themselves in the long run when they run out.

[Golmihr]

6 minutes ago, BaIthazar said:

both the quick revive and normal revive have 4 charges, so if your teammates used up all their quickrevives that's their fault

That's not really a counter point though. This change has taken some of the team player element out of the game by eliminating short term consequences for dying and most of the time there are no long term consequences since 4 is still a high number of times to die.

Edited August 8, 2017 by Golmihr

[Eldnacpeek]

3 hours ago, Troll_Logic said:

I later stated with examples specifically why I didn't like the change

 

Couldn't you just put that in the OP? If it's supposed to be a feedback thread, DE shouldn't have to scroll through the replies for elaboration. Nothing's really going to change to what you find better by just saying "not a good addition". Not attempting to be hostile.

[Kaokasalis]

22 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

Dude, that's all I got.  My opinion.  This isn't cold hard math where I can produce an animated gif of a formula that shows early revives produce a remainder where the game has to end with zero.  I've got my opinion.  You've got yours.  

You dont need hard math or an animated gif for this. The problem is that you dont particularly add more to your own opinion other than a few lines and just stubbornly point back to a poorly explained opinion. It just made your post look like a troll post in my own opinion.

Edited August 8, 2017 by Hieracon

[BaIthazar]

5 minutes ago, Golmihr said:

That's not really a counter point though. Even for a bad player it's rare to die 4 times in a normal mission. This change has taken some of the team player element out of the game by eliminating short term consequences for dying and most of the time there are no long term consequences since 4 is still a high number of times to die.

it is still a counter point to the "death has no consequences" argument as that is just not true.

Quote

in a normal mission

that is an important note you yourself pointed out.

nobody who has any idea what they're doing will die 4 times in a normal mission...
but not every mission we do is normal.
people like to do ridiculously long survival or defence runs and annoying Sorties
 

Edited August 8, 2017 by BaIthazar

[Golmihr]

2 minutes ago, BaIthazar said:

it is still a counter point to the "death has no consequences" argument as that is just not true.

  Reveal hidden contents

in a normal mission

that is an important note you yourself pointed out.

nobody who has any idea what they're doing will die 4 times in a normal mission...
but not every mission we do is normal.
people like to do ridiculously long survival and defence runs and annoying Sorties
 

Good thing I wrote "almost" no consequences then, as I have also illustrated the meaning of in my previous post.

 

Edit: And even for sorties many of us pretty much never die. Now in case it should happen, why care.

Edited August 8, 2017 by Golmihr

[(PSN)theelix]

14 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

It removes a significant penalty from dying.  It removes a a significant penalty from poor teamwork.

The team screws up?  Who cares?  They are right back up 3 seconds later.  Some player runs in radiation and kills the team?  Doesn't matter because the team the right back up and playing.  Team wants to run off during a mobile defense and leaves a single player to defend?  He dies?  Doesn't matter.  He's right back up and defending.

It's a big change.

There are 4(+2) revives in a mission. 

Some idiot decides to go in gun blazing and dies that many times, he's left to the AFK penalty unless he leaves the game. 

Higher level missions still have the same consequence. 

Objective/Defense based missions were hardly ever "I'm downed and can't get up quickly enough to save it" it's more the defense objective dies because no one's properly paying attention. 

Endurance missions have the exact same consequence and nothing has changed. 

 

I will have to agree with the prior comments; I do not see your point and your thread poorly explains your concerns. 

I've hardly had any experience where I've been downed and the time in which I was downed was the cause of my failure. The only time I could ever imagine is if there was an Oberon with a two minute down timer and they decide not to pick me up. In which case, that's still not the fault of the revive system. 

 

 

Edit: What I also have trouble understanding is the idea that someone who's been downed suddenly picks up their S#&$ and stops being a potato. If they're downed, they're likely unprepared or not paying attention. Their frustrated instant suicide changes literally nothing. They will die again, soon after their invincibility period runs out. Their energy pool is reverted to spawn limit and they have to use energy pads or find energy. I can't see many examples beyond the single 'everyone's down in a defense mission and somehow it gets wasted in our downtimer' argument. 

 

Edited August 8, 2017 by (PS4)theelix

[BaIthazar]

15 minutes ago, Golmihr said:

since 4 is still a high number of times to die.

something else I would like to point out.

if dying 4 times is a rare occurrence, then what is the harm in 4 extra revives if the original 4 were already more than enough?

and don't say "it promotes reckless behavior" or something like that.
nobody likes dying, if they can avoid it they will.
dying means losing a chunk of the affinity you got.. people like to get affinity.
dying means losing a melee counter you've worked on.
dying means losing most of your energy.
dying means you're probably surrounded so reviving on your own won't change that
 

Edited August 8, 2017 by BaIthazar

[Troll_Logic]

10 minutes ago, BaIthazar said:

a good change.

it keeps the pace up, and it's still limited by only having 4 revives so you need to choose between using a quick revive and waiting for your teammates.
if you use a revive when a teammate was on his way, then you wasted a revive.

the players that use their revives the second its available will only hurt themselves in the long run when they run out.

You may think it is a good change.  I certainly do not.  It minimizes both the importance of team play and consequences. 

You keep viewing this on a mission where this change has no consequence like extermination.  Who cares when anyone revives in an extermination mission.  This has significant repercussions in cryopod defense, mobile defense, and especially in hostage defense and rescue.

[BaIthazar]

2 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

This has significant repercussions in cryopod defense, mobile defense, and especially in hostage defense and rescue.

I hope you read or are reading Theelix's post because it really doesn't

[Golmihr]

9 minutes ago, BaIthazar said:

something else I would like to point out.

if dying 4 times is a rare occurrence, then what is the harm in 4 extra revives if the original 4 were already more than enough?

and don't say "it promotes reckless behavior" or something like that.
nobody likes dying, if they can avoid it they will.
dying means losing a chunk of the affinity you got.. people like to get affinity.
dying means losing a melee counter you've worked on.
dying means losing most of your energy.
 

I think it cheapens the challenge. I like that dying has some consequences that motivate players to work together better and support each other (Consequences that can affect the outcome of a mission). All your players down during a sorties defense? Well guess you needed to change strategy then or have some just play better. But now one can just press a reset button if they play poorly. Seems a bit lame of a change.

Edited August 8, 2017 by Golmihr

[Troll_Logic]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)theelix said:

There are 4(+2) revives in a mission. 

Some idiot decides to go in gun blazing and dies that many times, he's left to the AFK penalty unless he leaves the game. 

Higher level missions still have the same consequence. 

Objective/Defense based missions were hardly ever "I'm downed and can't get up quickly enough to save it" it's more the defense objective dies because no one's properly paying attention. 

You say hardly ever.  I'd say "the vast majority of times."  How many times has the team lost a hostage defense becasue each player is dying while trying to revive others and the hostage?  Or the defense cryopod is getting hammered because the team is down and can't revive in time?  Or 3/4 of the team runs to the extract faster than the guy who is leading the hostage and he dies because of it?

Yes, there are a few mission that this change will have no effect.  I've conceded that.  So stop focusing on those types and look at the missions this change will have a significant change.

[Tsukinoki]

1 hour ago, Tangent-Valley said:

A: "Crap! I'm down!"

B: "Seriously?! We needed you here though! Ugh. Well, there's no one near you, so just die and Revive and haul *ss over here so we don't all die as well and lose this thing!"

A: "Uh, I WOULD, but your buddy's stupid Oberon's Renewel is keeping me on a literal minute long Down Timer!"

B: "What?! Sh*t!!! Well.......Sh*t!"

Had this situation happen in an endless fissure mission before the change.
Was playing a mission with just one person in an Oberon and he got a power strength buff.  I went down and he refused to rez me because "What's the problem?  You have over a minute to kill enemies without being targetted!" due to his renewal.

Nothing I could do but sit there and wait to slowly bleed out and twiddle my thumbs.
At least now I can get out of that by just forcing a revive.

Edited August 8, 2017 by Tsukinoki

[MagPrime]

I rather like this change.  It allows me to get back on my feet ASAP when the mission is in danger of failing or to get someone else up when they've run out of revives.

Edited August 8, 2017 by MagPrime

[Dwolfknight]

Reads post

2 hours ago, Troll_Logic said:

Not a good addition.

Reads name

@Troll_Logic

Yup...

Spoiler

Seriously, The only time I can remember failing a defense or mobile defense where because either, I was completely unprepared or Someone Rushed ahead and didn't defend, never because we were down and couldn't get up.

 

 

[motorfirebox]

Yeesh. I was going to respond, but OP seems pretty true to his username and I don't think this thread's going to last much longer.

[(PSN)theelix]

21 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

You say hardly ever.  I'd say "the vast majority of times."  How many times has the team lost a hostage defense becasue each player is dying while trying to revive others and the hostage?  Or the defense cryopod is getting hammered because the team is down and can't revive in time?  Or 3/4 of the team runs to the extract faster than the guy who is leading the hostage and he dies because of it?

Yes, there are a few mission that this change will have no effect.  I've conceded that.  So stop focusing on those types and look at the missions this change will have a significant change.

Again, I must say "hardly ever." 

I don't put teammates above the objective. I CC first, revive after. If they happen to die and I'm there defending it by myself I'll do that, but I'm not going to waste my time trying to get someone up instead of playing the objective. 

I've hardly had cells that die all at the same time. It means we were all in the wrong place or we happen to be playing a T4 defense with someone who thinks the lasers are a fun toy, and even that has only happened all of four times to me in the two years that I played void keys, because I pay attention to what's happening and use the slide roll jump to go over them. Regardless of even that situation it clears most enemies in the area at the same time that it killed us all.

Rescue missions aren't even an example. The person "leading" the hostage is at fault for "leading" when you can even extract while the hostage is downed. The example of him killing himself and coming back to clutch the rescue hostage's down timer isn't a situation that happens in my rescue games, at all. Maybe when you're running with someone who doesn't know that this strategy is available to them, otherwise no.

I guess it's the fact that I can trivialize these challenges that you're trying to bring to attention that I don't see this as a problem, or that I don't trust randoms to be useful all the time that I plan to basically play solo with three bags of hitpoint meatshields? I can't see situations where dying instantly and coming back removes "teamwork" when it was never there to begin with. If I'm playing with a pre-made group... We just don't go down unless we're in a raid.