Why Reactants are not affected by Vacuum?

[Rskp]

It's annoying to have to walk on Reactant in Fissure Missions. Could we just suck them up with our Sentinels?

Thank you.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

"Because it makes the game more interractive"

*sigh*

It's the same reason why vacuum is tied to the sentinels and not a passive on warframes. At least it's my assumption, think whatever you want. DE probably believe that picking up loot manually adds to gameplay expierience (especially when you can't see sh*t off all the visual noise that's happening on the screen). Because picking up tiny specs of dust off the floor is what we play Warframe for, right?

Edited August 12, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[Rskp]

thanks for your post , I know your assumption but when the other player rush at the end and you d'ont have all reactant we can take more faster ;) but i think you're right.

[Hemmo67]

19 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

"Because it makes the game more interractive"

*sigh*

It's the same reason why vacuum is tied to the sentinels and not a passive on warframes. At least it's my assumption, think whatever you want. DE probably believe that picking up loot manually adds to gameplay expierience (especially when you can't see sh*t off all the visual noise that's happening on the screen). Because picking up tiny specs of dust off the floor is what we play Warframe for, right?

salts levels are increasing, overflowing

Spoiler

 

[True_Naeblis]

They actually said something about there being a chance they get thrown off the map by vacuum, but they also said that they increased the range, yet you still have to be within a hair of touching them before they're gathered. QoL is very much lacking when it comes to that.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

6 hours ago, Hemmo67 said:

salts levels are increasing, overflowing

What's bad about salt anyway? If anything, salt means that people actually care. People who can shrug off and go forward without ever expressing a strong opinion about anything, don't care about anything. It's good to be emotional. Especially when emotions drive you to analize the reasons behind them. Salt isn't a bad thing, but one has to be mature enough to be able to appreciate it. 

[AperoBeltaTwo]

1 hour ago, True_Naeblis said:

They actually said something about there being a chance they get thrown off the map by vacuum, but they also said that they increased the range, yet you still have to be within a hair of touching them before they're gathered. QoL is very much lacking when it comes to that.

QoL is the only source of motivated difficulty in the whole game at this point.

[Fallen_Echo]

6 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

"Because it makes the game more interractive"

*sigh*

It's the same reason why vacuum is tied to the sentinels and not a passive on warframes. At least it's my assumption, think whatever you want. DE probably believe that picking up loot manually adds to gameplay expierience (especially when you can't see sh*t off all the visual noise that's happening on the screen). Because picking up tiny specs of dust off the floor is what we play Warframe for, right?

Vacuum cannot pick up reactants because it caused an error what made them fall/stuck in places where they were unreachable by everybody who doesnt have vacuum.

The same treatment was used on ayatan stars and even the patch notes stated that this was the main reason of this change.

It has NOTHING to do with the game being more "interactive".

[AperoBeltaTwo]

1 hour ago, Fallen_Echo said:

The same treatment was used on ayatan stars and even the patch notes stated that this was the main reason of this change.

Well, I guess if it's written in the patch note than that's how it is, right?

[OvisCaedo]

...That's kind of a weird reason still, though, since they have the tech to make things only be pulled by vacuum effects locally instead of for all players. It's how they nerfed Greedy Pull. I'd think that using the same set up for Reactants and Stars would allow vacuum to keep working without breaking things for other players, but maybe however they set it up just didn't really allow for flags to be set in that way and it seemed easier to just make them vacuum proof.

[Troll_Logic]

2 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Vacuum cannot pick up reactants because it caused an error what made them fall/stuck in places where they were unreachable by everybody who doesnt have vacuum.

The same treatment was used on ayatan stars and even the patch notes stated that this was the main reason of this change.

I don't believe that for a second.  There is no reason why vacuum can't pick up reactants & stars for a player without moving them and there is precedent in the game for this.

Greedy Pull.  After Greedy Pull was nerfed it would pull items to the player without moving the items for the other players.

Before someone says "But that was an ability, not vacuum", it's the same thing.

[(XBOX)DShinShoryuken]

Its an homage to Pac-Man.

Pick up the dots to get the power. Finish the mission to get your prize. 

 

[Fallen_Echo]

9 hours ago, Troll_Logic said:

I don't believe that for a second.  There is no reason why vacuum can't pick up reactants & stars for a player without moving them and there is precedent in the game for this.

Greedy Pull.  After Greedy Pull was nerfed it would pull items to the player without moving the items for the other players.

Before someone says "But that was an ability, not vacuum", it's the same thing.

11 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Well, I guess if it's written in the patch note than that's how it is, right?

• Carrier’s Vacuum and Corpus Scavenger Drones will no longer be able to pick up or affect the placement of Ayatan Stars. This was causing Stars to become unreachable or falling through the floor. 

From 

 

I remember this, update they fixed the problem with vacuum moving the stars to unreachable places by removing the ability to pick them up with vacuum. Even when an item was falling throught the floor vacuum still let you pick it up while those who didnt brought carrier with them suffered.

While my interpreting might not be the ultimate truth reading that line of the patch note DOES states that they removed the ability so others can still pick up their stars.

The same was used later on the reactants when they started to fall throught the floor.

Thought i never understood why dont they just gave these out as an universal reward for the squad, collecting a star gives the squad 1 star for each player and in fissures they could just add in a requiement to collect 10 reactants for each player in the squad as an universal goal.

[Sloan441]

You want a reason or a justification? How about both?

A reason is because DE wants you to make the effort to pick them up. They are the reason you're there, after all.

A justification would be they aren't entirely corporeal and need the actual physical touch of a warframe inhabited by a tenno to interact with them.

There you go.

[(PSN)fullblast35]

kinda encourages you to kill to get more reactants.  it would be too easy to just stand there and wait for others to get them to drop and just vacuum.  You already have the advantage if you slo down and let the whole team rush into enemies, and occasionally when you get into a mission already in progress.

[FAZZWARFRAME]

21 hours ago, Troll_Logic said:

I don't believe that for a second.  There is no reason why vacuum can't pick up reactants & stars for a player without moving them and there is precedent in the game for this.

Greedy Pull.  After Greedy Pull was nerfed it would pull items to the player without moving the items for the other players.

Before someone says "But that was an ability, not vacuum", it's the same thing.

those items are asynchronous, reactants are synchronous.

[Troll_Logic]

27 minutes ago, FAZZWARFRAME said:

those items are asynchronous, reactants are synchronous.

Explain please.

[Troll_Logic]

12 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

I remember this, update they fixed the problem with vacuum moving the stars to unreachable places by removing the ability to pick them up with vacuum. Even when an item was falling throught the floor vacuum still let you pick it up while those who didnt brought carrier with them suffered.

I remember that as well.

I think the problem is with the "personal pickup area."  Most people don't realize that vacuum doesn't pick up items.  It simply pulls them to the player and the player's "personal pickup area" picks them up. We've all seen ourselves running around the map with a queue of items behind us.  So it looks like DE is saying that "A player's vacuum can whip a reactant into a place where they can't pick it up."  That could be reasonable, but I'd counter with "Either fix vacuum or, probably better, increase the reactant drop rate so that one reactant that gets "misplaced" won't screw over a player.

5 hours ago, (PS4)fullblast35 said:

kinda encourages you to kill to get more reactants.  it would be too easy to just stand there and wait for others to get them to drop and just vacuum. 

Having a somewhat larger pickup area doesn't change things.

[Tesseract7777]

On 8/12/2017 at 8:02 AM, Rskp said:

It's annoying to have to walk on Reactant in Fissure Missions. Could we just suck them up with our Sentinels?

Thank you.

It's the same reason you can't pick up ayatan stars with vacuum. DE barely compromised on even allowing vacuum on all sentinels, and tried to use it as a chance to decrease vacuum radius before player outcry. 

They want some things to be more interactive, they don't want every item to be auto-pick'd up. I'm not saying whether or not or how much I agree with them, just explaining why they do it. 

I understand the arguments on both sides of this. 

Whatever DE may have said in patch notes, this IS about making the game more interactive. They have pretty much openly stated this multiple times in one way or another. It's the same reason they will never make Retrieve close to as good as vacuum. 

Edited August 14, 2017 by Tesseract7777

[(PSN)wildcats1369my]

On 12/08/2017 at 8:12 PM, AperoBeltaTwo said:

"Because it makes the game more interractive"

*sigh*

It's the same reason why vacuum is tied to the sentinels and not a passive on warframes. At least it's my assumption, think whatever you want. DE probably believe that picking up loot manually adds to gameplay expierience (especially when you can't see sh*t off all the visual noise that's happening on the screen). Because picking up tiny specs of dust off the floor is what we play Warframe for, right?

Well... it is considered a looter game after all.

[Chipputer]

7 hours ago, Troll_Logic said:

Explain please.

Context clues. Use them and you can explain it yourself.

Synchronous. Synchronize.
Asynchronous. The opposite of Synchronous.

Even not knowing the exact details of what they're referring to, just knowing what the two words are rooted from will tell you what they mean-- reactants are drops that are synchronized across all clients. Loot drops aren't. Vacuum doesn't affect drops that are asynchronous because they're only in time with your own, local, client. They do affect drops that are synchronized across all clients.

The question you should, then, be asking is why certain drops are synchronized and certain drops aren't because it's quite clear that if Argon drops for me it drops for you and yet when I touch it you don't see the effects of my touching it.

[Troll_Logic]

22 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

Context clues. Use them and you can explain it yourself.

Synchronous. Synchronize.
Asynchronous. The opposite of Synchronous.

Even not knowing the exact details of what they're referring to, just knowing what the two words are rooted from will tell you what they mean-- reactants are drops that are synchronized across all clients.

Maybe.  Maybe not.  But rather than simply assuming what he meant and accepting it or replying, I find it best to see what the person means first.

 

24 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

The question you should, then, be asking is why certain drops are synchronized and certain drops aren't because it's quite clear that if Argon drops for me it drops for you and yet when I touch it you don't see the effects of my touching it.

Sometimes that's true.  Sometimes it isn't.  Let's say the argon drops in a four player game.  Player 1 picks up the argon.  Player 2 picks up the argon.  I pick up the argon.  You then run over and pick up the argon.  The little green marker goes away.

 

2 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

They want some things to be more interactive, they don't want every item to be auto-pick'd up. I'm not saying whether or not or how much I agree with them, just explaining why they do it. 

This isn't directed at you, but if DE wants the game more interactive, they need to fix the damn personal pickup area.  I've often run by an object less than a yard away and still not picked it up.  Had to turn around and run back.  So if DE wants us closer to items when we pick them up, then make consistent.

[Tesseract7777]

4 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

This isn't directed at you, but if DE wants the game more interactive, they need to fix the damn personal pickup area.  I've often run by an object less than a yard away and still not picked it up.  Had to turn around and run back.  So if DE wants us closer to items when we pick them up, then make consistent.

I'm not disagreeing with that. Reactant for example, which may be one thing you are talking about, particularly bugs me. I rarely use vacuum and usually have no trouble getting loot fairly quickly as I pass by. 

But when I pickup reactant, I feel like I basically have to literally walk/run directly over its exact location on the map, and it is not very big. When you are trying to kill stuff while picking up reactant, it can be a bit of a bother. 

[Fallen_Echo]

1 hour ago, Troll_Logic said:

This isn't directed at you, but if DE wants the game more interactive, they need to fix the damn personal pickup area.  I've often run by an object less than a yard away and still not picked it up.  Had to turn around and run back.  So if DE wants us closer to items when we pick them up, then make consistent.

The worst offender for me are the ayatan stars.

Me as a fast and agile, ninja cyborg running across a warzone inside a sabotaged grineer galleon.

I spot an ayatan star in the middle of a large corridor what i need.

So i use my most agile moves, bulletjump, roll, double jump to get to the item carefully avoiding the fire and the enemies where i stop, look at it, press x and pick it up in the slowest possible pace.

Its not like i have to hurry becuase the grinner is charging and the ship will blow up, right?

[AperoBeltaTwo]

6 hours ago, (PS4)wildcats1369my said:

Well... it is considered a looter game after all.

To be a looter game the loot has to be rooted in the gameplay. Otherwise there's no reason to collect it.

Edited August 14, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo