Trinity Nerfs are incoming be prepared

[Milinko]

So at tennocon someone complained about Trinity being to powerful and needing to be looked at, of which [DE] responded with it will happen just not soon, so that is to say that all the bad frames are going to get their respective reworks and/or buffs first before bringing another frame down. With this if Trinity nerfs are going to happen I really want to point out her big issue is that she can spam her abilities to no end giving infinite energy and a 75% damage reduction with a full health and shields to boot. If you nerf her then here are my suggestions 

First link her ability to cast to the duration of the ability. Like a cooldown. Like Harrows cooldown. So you can't just spam 4 to give infinite EHP as long as you have energy effectively making every frame into a tank which a support shouldn't be able to do squishy or not, it's broken. So just cast it everyone gets their health and shields from it and the duration of the damage reduction is how long you have to wait before being able to cast it again. Negative duration gets the benefit of being able to cast it again but positive duration gets the benefit of longer damage reduction time so balance is key.

Secondly her 4 should not give a percentage of health and shields back that can be maxed to 100% at that point what is point of having her one which gives lifesteal if you hit that target when you can just hit 4 to heal everyone to max. Instead have it do a much smaller percentage that maxes out at say 50% and a flat number for health and shield say around 300. Her damage reduction is fine in my opinion but that's just me this way she is a better burst healer than others but Oberon and Harrow can maintain heals a little better because theirs works more as an activated passive ability and works better for Allies with larger health pools and their own large reserves of armor because they don't need damage reduction. This way there is a reason to use her one because currently when was the last time you actually remembered that it was there. No really have you used her 1 after she was fully leveled don't lie to me. I can hear you typing lies just because you don't want her nerfed.

Her second ability just needs the cast delay increased a little the less duration you have. This inflicts a balance between her abilities so if you wanted to go negative duration build you can't just spam 2 and 4 to have all the HP and all the energy and technically with high strength you would also have the damage reduction because it still applies it just doesn't last long it's ridiculous as it stands. I can build a macro that lets me do that forever with the push of a button so I could go AFK for 10 minutes and no one would notice. I know because I have done it. Hit the macro and left to watch youtube.

Her one is fine if it wasn't useless compared to her 4. In order to give reason why her 1 even exist she needs to have her 4 nerfed a bit.

Her 3 is also fine it isn't invincibility and it only affects her so not to bad .

Alright this is what I think would be great for Trinity a little balance and thought put into using her not just mind numbing press 2 3 4 let allies kill everything if you aren't solo wash rinse repeat for eternity. She is overpowered and I'm sorry for anyone who doesn't think so but how many other frames can not be killed by 4 level 135 heavy gunners by just pressing 2 3 4 while having your cursor pointed at them. You don't have to even be paying attention just point and press those and you are done. I can't think of a single frame that can purely survive without paying some form of attention. This is what I want to see but it isn't my game so let's see what [DE] has in stored for us maybe they never nerf trinity because her level of power actually isn't necessary so people don't use her that often. 

[RikerWatts]

Trinity is fine where she is, I don't understand why she would need any nerf in the first place.

[CephalonBot]

Yeah, this sounds good

EV and Bless do really need to get nerfed/changed in some way and these ideas look like an alright first start

[RobWasHere]

I wouldn't mind with PoL and EV just swapped their function. PoL deal damage and emit healing pulses, or even health regen pulses, EV hold the enemy you shoot to get energy.

[shadowshudder]

1 minute ago, Ershardia said:

Yeah, this sounds good

EV and Bless do really need to get nerfed/changed in some way and these ideas look like an alright first start

I disagree entirely. In higher levels and with good gear, Trinity is really primarily useful for just energy. Doesn't need a nerf.

[Neightrix]

They explicitly said Trinity isn't even on the radar to get touched anywhere in the foreseeable future. Somebody hasn't gotten zenurik's energy overflow yet if they think Trinity is overpowered. I regularly decline offers to bring Trinity to anything except LoR because it's better to have every frame contributing to the fight. In a game this easy and casual, there's no reason this should even be a discussion. Trinity is fine.

Edited August 16, 2017 by Neightrix

[Imaru]

And now for an actual response: 

The discussion at TennoCon wasn't that she's too powerful per-se, but that she is too easy to make so powerful. 2 buttons and you and your team have all the energy and health they'll ever need. And you usually start the mission with enough energy to use one or both of those powers. Think of another powerhouse that can become practically immortal: Nidus. You need to work for it if you want to reap the benefits of his kit. Similarly, Harrow needs you to spent time and energy in a more vulnerable state before you can truly go to town. Oberon need you to constantly maintain your energy reserves. 

Trinity does all of that at once. You can easily get plenty of energy for you and your team, and use that to maintain your health pretty much indefinitely. 

[Hoangviet1996]

If they decided to rework her i doubt anyone would touch her afterwards. Like it's already hard enough to run into a Player willing to go Trinity in a random Pub run. Still i hope that she doesn't get nerf, i honestly think she is fine where she is right now. Her Ev build have no survivalbility later on into the game. Her Bless and Link build is also fine since they all have longer than normal cast animation which make her vulnerable during that brief period. Her Abatelink Build which seems to be very popular atm require over 200% power str which can be a drag to mod for. All in all She is fine where she is at.

PS: No more or nerf ev also means less efficient grinding which translate into more and more grindframe. Sad

[AlendasNaro]

Friend of mine: Are you kidding me? Again?!

Seriously I know Trinity can keep the team up but it is a lot of work already. To be honest Harrow's invincibility should be changed to X amount of damage resistance to allies and to himself. It is stupid ability and makes things much more easier. 10 times what Trinity can do.

Also like it was mentioned Nidus. Like we are beating around already tons of blows taken warframe that is Trinity and now we bring the hammer down again? When there is like two Warframes that don't have rules to begin with.

Trinity is WAY different that Nidus and Harrow. You have to build up what you need and yes Nidus and Harrow have to do the same but they require much less time for that + Nidus has like 10 times more damage than any warframe. Trinity can equalize but it is all about your team doing whatever they can to benefit from the damage reduction + all your damage is coming from your weaponry. Harrow has the same thing but he can buff your weaponry.

Harrow meanwhile can lock down enemies completely not just one like... All of them (also Nidus can do the same). Sure you have to channel the ability to get energy back when killing enemies but that doesn't become a problem as long as you know what's going on around you and position yourself accordingly + really 25 second invincibility from single button press and major critical hit buff after it? Come on! Trinity is nothing close of that.

[(XBOX)Vile Slanders]

Okay... this sounds slightly... ummm... I was gonna say nuts, but that would be indecent. Should we say "unnecessary" instead?

Look, someone made a comparison between Trinity's capabilities with EV and Blessing and virtually every other healing frame. (Nidus; Oberon; Harrow; though strangely, Equinox was missing...)

The thing is, that's not a very fair comparison to make, and here is why:

Nidus's kit is Healing, Power Strength/Damage Resistance buff, CC, and A TON OF DAMAGE.

Oberon's kit is Healing, Armor buff, CC, and Damage.

Harrow's kit is Healing, CC, Energy Restore, Heavy Offensive buffs(Ergo: LOTSA DAMAGE), and Invulnerability.

And Trinity's kit is Healing, Energy Restore, and Damage Resistance buff.

The three frames mentioned are all offensive CC kits, with a smattering of support; But the last frame mentioned, Trinity, has only support in her kit.

That's it. That's all Trinity is supposed to do: SUPPORT.

If that's Trinity's sole specialization, wouldn't it stand to reason that Trinity should be the best support frame in the game? 'Cause every prior mention has no shortage of variety in their kits. Trinity doesn't.

[Newnight]

1 hour ago, RikerWatts said:

Trinity is fine where she is, I don't understand why she would need any nerf in the first place.

Cause this community it like the infested: Twisted, confusing and full of bile. (Not entirely serious so leave the salt in the ocean)

[Newnight]

Also mend is typically ignored imo is because of main and due to the sheer amount of over flow that mend has. Unless your healing a bunch of heavy armored grinder or something, her healing is excess.

[Buddhakingpen]

Trinity doesnt need a nerf or a buff. She needs a rework.  Not because she's bad, but because she's a frame with 0 skill cap and the lowest possible skill ceiling. Mod for what you want, press the buttons for the effects you want, very little need for timing. Literally the only skill you need is the ability to look at timers. Thats not interactive gameplay. Its effective, but there should be some kind of skill necessary for a team battery. 

[Shikkoku]

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)Vile Slanders said:

Okay... this sounds slightly... ummm... I was gonna say nuts, but that would be indecent. Should we say "unnecessary" instead?

Look, someone made a comparison between Trinity's capabilities with EV and Blessing and virtually every other healing frame. (Nidus; Oberon; Harrow; though strangely, Equinox was missing...)

The thing is, that's not a very fair comparison to make, and here is why:

Nidus's kit is Healing, Power Strength/Damage Resistance buff, CC, and A TON OF DAMAGE.

Oberon's kit is Healing, Armor buff, CC, and Damage.

Harrow's kit is Healing, CC, Energy Restore, Heavy Offensive buffs(Ergo: LOTSA DAMAGE), and Invulnerability.

And Trinity's kit is Healing, Energy Restore, and Damage Resistance buff.

The three frames mentioned are all offensive CC kits, with a smattering of support; But the last frame mentioned, Trinity, has only support in her kit.

That's it. That's all Trinity is supposed to do: SUPPORT.

If that's Trinity's sole specialization, wouldn't it stand to reason that Trinity should be the best support frame in the game? 'Cause every prior mention has no shortage of variety in their kits. Trinity doesn't.

Equinox's kit is: Healing/TON OF DAMAGE, hard CC/Debuff on enemy, more debuff on enemy/Power strength Buff  

BTW I like Nidus's Healing, it's great but, cost's not energy, so Nidus have to work for it. It could be a good change, if there would something similar for Trinity to build up to use her 4, as she can easily get energy. Maybe something that she gains when an enemy dies in her 1 and 2 ability... So her 4 really would be more like a panic button instead of spamable immortality and she would be forced to rely on more her 1 when it comes to healing. 

[Ventasis]

She definitely doesn't need a nerf. People who say that are misguided & aren't looking at the bigger picture. When you really sit down & think about it, the only real assets she brings to a team is giving everyone 75 DR & being tanky. Thats it. Doesn't sound overpowered at all because it isn't. The guy at Tennocon begging for trin nerfs was almost certainly a newer player, his reasoning for her being overpowered is that she can heal & give energy on demand. If you've been playing the game for a long time, you'll realize that neither of these things are actually useful. The energy part should be obvious; This is a game with Zenurik, energy pizzas, & arcane energize. Energy is trivial. As for healing, its something that new & intermediate players will value, but it quickly loses its usefulness in the late game. Enemies are 1 of 2 things: Strong enough to kill you almost instantly making healing an ineffective option since you would die regardless OR weak enough that you wouldn't need it since they don't pose a threat. 

Like a few others have said, what she needs is a rework, not a nerf. Her powers are outdated & don't make sense within the current meta of the game. Her kit is too basic & doesn't ask any thought from the player. 

[-N7-Leonhart]

3 minutes ago, Ventasis said:

She definitely doesn't need a nerf. People who say that are misguided & aren't looking at the bigger picture. When you really sit down & think about it, the only real assets she brings to a team is giving everyone 75 DR & being tanky. Thats it. Doesn't sound overpowered at all because it isn't. The guy at Tennocon begging for trin nerfs was almost certainly a newer player, his reasoning for her being overpowered is that she can heal & give energy on demand. If you've been playing the game for a long time, you'll realize that neither of these things are actually useful. The energy part should be obvious; This is a game with Zenurik, energy pizzas, & arcane energize. Energy is trivial. As for healing, its something that new & intermediate players will value, but it quickly loses its usefulness in the late game. Enemies are 1 of 2 things: Strong enough to kill you almost instantly making healing an ineffective option since you would die regardless OR weak enough that you wouldn't need it since they don't pose a threat. 

Like a few others have said, what she needs is a rework, not a nerf. Her powers are outdated & don't make sense within the current meta of the game. Her kit is too basic & doesn't ask any thought from the player. 

Rhino is basic as well. That's not a bad thing, that's a feature only the starter frames will get to keep, eventually. But when ppl think of Trinity these days, there is one single thing that comes to mind, and just a SINGLE one: Energy Vampire. Therefore, when you speak of Trinity, you definitely mean spammy gameplay, which becomes more and more the definition of "degenerate" gameplay these days 

[Ventasis]

25 minutes ago, -N7-Leonhart said:

Rhino is basic as well. That's not a bad thing, that's a feature only the starter frames will get to keep, eventually. But when ppl think of Trinity these days, there is one single thing that comes to mind, and just a SINGLE one: Energy Vampire. Therefore, when you speak of Trinity, you definitely mean spammy gameplay, which becomes more and more the definition of "degenerate" gameplay these days 

Right, I'm not saying basic abilities are intrinsically bad. Far from it. Volt, who is my favorite frame, has a very simplistic skill set. I think its just that her simple abilities don't have satisfying outcomes. When you play Rhino you feel like a badass stomping, roaring, & charging everywhere all while being invincible from iron skin. You're using all your skills in harmony & you get into a rhythm that feels good. When you play Trinity: "Guess I'll stand here & mash the 2 key constantly. Maybe I'll even throw in a 4 occasionally." 

[Epsik-kun]

2 hours ago, Buddhakingpen said:

Trinity doesnt need a nerf or a buff. She needs a rework.  Not because she's bad, but because she's a frame with 0 skill cap and the lowest possible skill ceiling. Mod for what you want, press the buttons for the effects you want, very little need for timing. Literally the only skill you need is the ability to look at timers. Thats not interactive gameplay. Its effective, but there should be some kind of skill necessary for a team battery. 

That's already more skill required than for the 95% frames in the game.

[KesaraRiku]

Uh-no. Trinity does not need a nerf. She already took a nerf hammer to the face. I like to play her on teams because I support the team. I keep my DPS buddies nice and able for them to do the insane amount of damage to fight bosses. I have a Number 4 that I use in emergencies because some frames are squishy. I manage my cooldowns, and I rarely ever come as number 3 in team damage. 

She is not OP, just very specialized for support and support only.

[SANYA501]

we definitely need to nerf the ONLY pure support frame in the game

[Doomsknightmare]

I hope they not only just "nerf" her, but also make her "fun" to play.

[Hellmaker2004]

8 hours ago, Milinko said:

Her one is fine if it wasn't useless compared to her 4.

 

Her one is not useless due to her number four being to strong.

It is useless due to how the ability is designed, It is one if not the worst healing ability in the game that is not only poorly designed for a fast pace shooter game. But also counter productive since it offers the foe something equal to that off 90% Damage resistance and that is assuming it even work on the mob, add in the long cast delay for such a terrible ability and you got yourself a perfect mixture of awfulness.

 

And also for the record if you are building a negative duration build to spam her number two and four you are not as immortal as you may think. You see at higher levels you do not die because the foes have a stable but reliable damage per second that you can predict, you die because they deal more than 100% of your health and shield in a short window ranging from 0.1 - 3 seconds depending on frame and modding for a lot of frames, of course this number will be influenced not only by the frame you play but also how you mod it.

[Mokkun108]

Trinity is obsolete old frame, absolutely needless. The only ones who would be affected by the change/rework should it come, will be those Lor and bere farmers. She provides nothing in endless T4 fissures, equinox, nidus, oberon and harrow are much better choises for the long play than trinity.

Too many frames trying to occupy one niche, too many frames now overall.

[Fihuren]

If you want to nerf trinity, then change the raids so they won't rely on any specific warframes like triinty (Pizzas exists, but it's even worse if we have to rely on them to perform raids)

[Cyandana]

My friends and I have cleared LoR Nightmare with Harrow instead of Trinity, it felt a lot more rewarding and interactive for our "healer" because he actually had to pay attention and shoot S#&$ in the head to do his job. 

My issue with Trinity isn't that she provides infinite energy, health, and shields. It's that she does so with basically no effort. The only thing you need to keep everyone's resources maxed all the time is targets that aren't immune to EV. Trinity should have to do more than just point and shoot to instantly kill whatever enemy and turn them into an energy beacon.

She's suffering from the same thing that old Ash Blade Storm used to suffer from, press button to instantly win - it's non interactive and other people feel robbed of fun because when it's effective it's TOO effective.

I'm all for a small scale rework to EV and Blessing, but not just a direct nerf.