Ember's Deluxe Skin Feedback

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

I'll be interested to see how this skin does compared to the others. If enough people don't buy it then DE might realize it's not a great skin. I know I won't be purchasing it. 

[Genoscythe]

4 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

This thread began as feedback and has progressively turned into derailing comments due to the launch of Ember’s Vermillion Skin. As an Ember fanatic, I’m here to interject some words. 

If we could use the first proposed Ember Deluxe Skin, we would. It’s a beautiful design, but unfortunately creative differences made moving forward with it impossible. Could we publically dive into great detail as to what those creative differences were? Sure. But we’re not about naming and shaming here in the Warframe community. So of course our team had to start over with a new design that steered itself in a different artistic direction. The apology from the responsible party is here: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/734001-my-personal-apology-to-the-fans/

I’m truly disappointed to see some disrespectful words being tossed around about artistic feedback. 

At the end of the day, the DE team put love and effort into making the Vermillion Skin. It’s your choice to either purchase it or pass on it. With the current track of amazing Warframe TennoGen artists there will be plenty of different Skins to grace the majesty that is Ember.

This is not the end of all Skins for Ember - so please keep your feedback constructive. 

If I could buy Tennogen with platinum I would actually accept the "there's tennogen skins to come" part. The biggest gripe for me right now are the prices. Sure people invested time into their work, as did the DE art-team, but making stuff exclusive to real money when there's an ingame currency that is supposed to fill exactly the real-money-role I don't support that kind of business tactics.

The cool things about deluxe skins is that you can get them with plat you worked for in-game or payed for in money, and, speaking of my own experience only, I know a lot of people who don't buy tennogen exactly because of the aforementioned acquisition method and stick to the DE-made skins.

Because of this, many people might feel salty now. Tennogen pricing is quite expensive (you can get a videogame for the same price). Myself, I don't find the skin too bad, I also didn't think the first iteration was the holy grail either. I'll get the Ember deluxe at some point for the pistol skin maybe, but I surely won't get any tennogen stuff in the near future.

[Violet_Xe]

Just took note of this, you took notice of a mag deluxe syandana and put it out on it's own so people could just buy that buy for ember you kept the syandana in the pack, really hurts  oh and i forgot to add in my last one, you said you would give us something better, and you know we can be really passionate about how our warframes look. but you never actually confirmed it with the player base to see if it was actually a skin a lot of us wanted. it feels a tiny bit forced upon us, i know you do that with a lot of content but we really liked having the before and after reveal time so we could make a few suggestions. also so things like this don't happen.

Edited November 3, 2017 by Violet_Xe

[MirageKnight]

2 hours ago, Kromatia said:

Stop acting entitled....all of you. 

Stop being presumptuous. This isn't about entitlement, this is about giving valid feedback and the issue about how our feedback and opinions seem to only matter when it suits DE's interests and people expressing dissatisfaction over that.

I could care less that Ember got a deluxe skin. I don't play her.  I also don't think this skin suits her theme very well but that's just my honest and simple opinion. What I do care about is the fact that a lot of people who do play Ember said "We don't like this proposed skin and this is why. We'd prefer this one" and DE basically said "we don't care what you think, we're going to go with this anyway" with this release. Because that's basically what happened.

I care that the company I've supported, trusted, respected, and thrown a good deal of money at over the years dissed a substantial portion of their playerbase and I'm really NOT happy about that.

[DatDarkOne]

1 minute ago, MirageKnight said:

the issue about how our feedback and opinions seem to only matter when it suits DE's interests

Sorry Tenno, but I kinda had to laugh at this part of your post.  Realistically, when has feedback or opinions ever mattered outside of someone's interests.  If some person or entity isn't interested in the feedback/opinion then it's not going to matter.  

Now in regards to DE.  I honestly think that feedback matters to them up to a certain point.  After that point, it stops being a factor.  That's pretty much with any and everyone though.  

Please note that I'm not arguing against your main point.  It's just that as an aged gamer/person that one line made me giggle at how naïve it sounded/read.  No offense intended.  :D

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

@MeiWIZ

Please keep it respectful, or I will be forced to ask an administrator to close this thread.

[MirageKnight]

I have a problem with someone saying to your face "We want your feedback and we care what you think." but their actions saying something else entirely. I'm sorry, but I expect a bit of honesty when it comes to something a person buys. That's just how I was brought up.

*sigh* I guess I expect too much from people.

 

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

@DeltaPangaea

All negative sounding comments following the one you made will count as strikes until I ask to close this thread.

[DeltaPangaea]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

@DeltaPangaea

All negative sounding comments following the one you made will count as strikes until I ask to close this thread.

"Negative Sounding Comments"

Uh...huh. Bro I have a negative opinion. Expressing that opinion will by default be a negative-sounding comment. Also it'd probably help if you actually pointed at a comment rather than just @-ing me.

[DeltaPangaea]

20 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Sorry Tenno, but I kinda had to laugh at this part of your post.  Realistically, when has feedback or opinions ever mattered outside of someone's interests.  If some person or entity isn't interested in the feedback/opinion then it's not going to matter.  

Now in regards to DE.  I honestly think that feedback matters to them up to a certain point.  After that point, it stops being a factor.  That's pretty much with any and everyone though.  

Please note that I'm not arguing against your main point.  It's just that as an aged gamer/person that one line made me giggle at how naïve it sounded/read.  No offense intended.  :D

There's a bit of a difference between feedback for mechanical aspects of the game and feedback for something that is purely decorative. Mechanical decisions can be made for what the devs believe to be the health or overall wellbeing of the game. There's no reason to disregard player opinions on something when player opinions are literally the only thing that matters regarding it.

[DatDarkOne]

3 minutes ago, DeltaPangaea said:

There's no reason to disregard player opinions on something when player opinions are literally the only thing that matters regarding it.

There is always a reason to disregard an opinion should it not mesh with your end vision.  The trick is how nice you are when disregarding it.  

[Violet_Xe]

Just now, DatDarkOne said:

There is always a reason to disregard an opinion should it not mesh with your end vision.  The trick is how nice you are when disregarding it.  

well... nice would be like giving us the reason why it doesn't work, exact details, and showing us the concept of the new skin, instead of just throwing it at us. i don't think we had seen any concept of the peacock  ember deluxe skin before at all meaning it's basically forced upon us.

 

[Eldnacpeek]

7 hours ago, Stoner74 said:

Artistically, DE has never ever listened to its fans and this is very disappointing.

 

Chroma's original default helmet being the Drac, players were so vocal about their distaste that DE changed it to the originally intended alt helmet and Drac was put on the market for 40p for a great deal of time (it's a normal 75 now), thus being the only alt helmet for any warframe, both up to that point and currently, to receive a discount due to events that transpired outside the game (as in loads of player outcry and feedback).

Given this, they have indeed listened to major player feedback in the past regarding an artistic decision. However, is this the only notable instance of such a thing? Absolutely. Overall, I agree with you, though sadly there's nothing that can be done. It was said above to keep feedback constructive, but my question is, feedback on what exactly? DE has never made noticeable changes in terms of art regardless of player feedback, and even the Chroma helmet situation doesn't really count because it seems they already had the new default ready (when it was the alt labeled "Chroma Lancer Helmet" in files as revealed by datamine).

Because of this, I personally find negative feedback on cosmetics futile. The point of feedback is to bring about change due to current discomfort with something, but when it comes to artistic decisions, you might as well remain silent as no change will come forth. Before someone misunderstands me, I hold no ill will towards DE for this, and I hope it doesn't seem like I'm shaming them. I understand it is still their game in the end, and their art team has their own visions. All in all, however, when it comes down to a situation like this, there's nothing anyone can do but accept it, move on, and live with what we have.

[DatDarkOne]

5 minutes ago, Violet_Xe said:

well... nice would be like giving us the reason why it doesn't work, exact details, and showing us the concept of the new skin, instead of just throwing it at us. i don't think we had seen any concept of the peacock  ember deluxe skin before at all meaning it's basically forced upon us.

Yes it would have been nice to give us all that information.  I can honestly say that if it had been my decision no one would have seen it until it was in the game.  But that's me.  :D

As for the "basically forced upon us" part, nope it was not.  Why I say this you might ask?  Because we/us have to power at the end of the day to not buy and/or use the deluxe skin that was provided.  When you have that type of power, then nothing can be considered forced.  

Note: Before someone tries to say that I'm "White Knighting", please realize that I'm only trying to inject some common sense and logic into this whole topic.   

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

3 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

give me a few moments to get back in-game.  I'll edit this post with the shots when I'm done.  

edit: here got the shots.

and a shot of the lovely assets.  :D

Since you seem to be a feet person.  hehe

Thanks. Yeah the feet bother me. To blocky. Needs more curves more refined, sexy, elegant, less blocky. The heel is killing me. There is a huge lack of detail there when compared to Nekros and Mag deluxe. But I'm glad you're happy with it tho. Thanks for sharing. 

[Violet_Xe]

Just now, DatDarkOne said:

Yes it would have been nice to give us all that information.  I can honestly say that if it had been my decision no one would have seen it until it was in the game.  But that's me.  :D

As for the "basically forced upon us" part, nope it was not.  Why I say this you might ask?  Because we/us have to power at the end of the day to not buy and/or use the deluxe skin that was provided.  When you have that type of power, then nothing can be considered forced.  

Note: Before someone tries to say that I'm "White Knighting", please realize that I'm only trying to inject some common sense and logic into this whole topic.   

I did buy the collection sadly, yes the ball is in our court, but there are items in the collection that are exclusive to the collection meaning we are forced to buy the skin along with those meaning DE still profits. even though they already have a syandana from mag deluxe separate from the pack which i thought meant they were changing their way of doing things... it was exclusively put in the package forcing us to buy everything including the skin. also i do really try to find the light in these deluxe skins. plus it's what i mean by force, is basically saying buy this or you get no content this time around even though we could have done something you and many others think is better.

[Amazerath]

6 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

This is not the end of all Skins for Ember - so please keep your feedback constructive. 

As far as deluxe skins go, the people who don't like this new one will probably have to wait another year or two for the art team to finally work on Ember again.

It doesn't justify or excuse the things some people are saying. But it explains where some of the frustration comes from. I have great respect for the art team and their design choices, but the harsh reality is that they are simply too busy to be able to make multiple skins that will please an array of different tastes.

The Tennogen guys are amazing but they can only make textures and helmets. They can't give us a new Ember model.

[TheBrsrkr]

Look, guys, the skin sucks. Everyone knows it sucks. She looks like a chicken. Always kinda looked like a chicken to me, but now it's just ridiculous. But what, exactly, do you expect from such a rushed project. The original skin that everyone loved so much came from a IgnusDei and he left. If you're in the digital art scene, using someone's concept like that after they leave is just a slap in the face and a terrible thing to do. They had to do something, and do something fast. It's what we got. Kinda sucks, but you have to understand that the project didn't exactly go smoothly. 

Edited November 3, 2017 by TheBrsrkr

[Xtenz]

18 minutes ago, Putrid_Idiot said:

i highly doubt you'll read this megan, but im gonna waste my time with a response anyways.

i don't really see how DE can criticize someone else's design, modify it, and when the initial artist disagrees you just drop it all like a hot pan and yell NOPE. not even an attempt to come together and find a workable compromise.
yet, when WE see a design we overwhelmingly don't like, and express our opinion and criticisms as a community it falls on deaf ears. do you not see how that is hypocritical?

your company's job is to serve US. not the other way around. at the end of the day, you are here to make a high quality IP and to sell it to customers so your company can continue to turn a paycheck to its employees. seeing as how y'all have gone the route of "bend to the will of the masses", its a bit weird how you guys flip flop between blatantly ignoring us, to making changes based on feedback. (take vacuum for example). 

also, "we're not about naming and shaming here in the warframe community.. BUT here's a link to a thread that damns ignus' name and make him look like a fool"
cmon.. are you for real with that? you're literally passing the blame of y'all's severe folly and i am embarrassed for you.

i'm truly disappointed to see DE FLAT OUT LIE to its customers and fans about a skin we were promised months ago and would have happily waited another year for.
your point on tennogen skins is moot. not everyone can purchase them, and they aren't nearly unique as deluxe's are.

at the end of the day, i will definitely be voting with my wallet. i encourage other ember fans to do the same. seriously considering dropping the game as a whole.

I think he has a point . This is where we should unite  in order to be really heard. DE doesnt care now of our opinions the only thing that may make them react is the wallet   , it feels bad to say this but DE really is changing for the worse .

 

DE need to realize that a lot of players (myself included) here waited for years for this skin to come . How can it be SO bad ?

And i wont be hypocritically positive  . I Don't know why we should be this way when they clearly ignored our calls .

Anger ALLWAYS come with the failure of being heard.

 

Anyway I don't see the passion & love when i look at this skin . All i see is a rushed design , disgusting at worse , cringy at best .

All they think about is how their "artists" are feeling . More than how we feel about their product  .... THIS . IS . WRONG.

[DatDarkOne]

12 minutes ago, Putrid_Idiot said:

when i make products for my customers (i make art/clothing/etc) i am absolutely serving to my clients. its just a flat out truth.

No, it's not a flat out truth.  It's just method that you prefer in how you handle your customers.  There is a difference between that and the "truth".  

Anyone who has and does business knows that there is a limit to how far you go when providing a service or product for customers.  I've done various projects of differing types over the years.  One thing has been clear and consistent in each and every one of them.  The customer is not always right.  You cater to them to get their business, but not at the expense of yourself or end goal.  To do otherwise is just stupid.  

Of course there are exceptions and special cases, but you can not logically expect for any company to absolutely serve without question.  

[(XBOX)MRxStarchy]

It's not that the skin is awful, obviously work went into it along with the Nekros skin. But there is just something about the older deluxe skins that the new ones lack.  

[Bokdrol]

On 18/08/2017 at 10:06 PM, VisionAndVoice said:

My thoughts? Good riddance. 

That skin didn't look appealing to me at all. So hopefully they'll be able to present something better.

And, are you satisfied now?

[Xtenz]

2 minutes ago, (Xbox One)MRxStarchy said:

It's not that the skin is awful, obviously work went into it along with the Nekros skin. But there is just something about the older deluxe skins that the new ones lack.  

Finition ? Details ? higher textures ? effects ?

[(XBOX)MRxStarchy]

1 minute ago, Xtenz said:

Finition ? Details ? higher textures ? effects ?

Yeah that's actually exactly what I was trying to say

[Xtenz]

5 minutes ago, (Xbox One)MRxStarchy said:

Yeah that's actually exactly what I was trying to say

Almost everything then . Isnt it .... a shame ?