Why is conclave dead? Or at least most of it

[Zytin_]

When i played a long time ago the conclave room was very popular and everytime i play there was always people. Now i see lunaro and cephalon capture empty most of the times and when i do find some people they are all mr 2 and below. Not that i have anything against them just that they think that there all that and tend to annoy me most of the time with their mic or in chat. I hate excab for this reason. I understand warframe is all about the pve life but will DE ever thing of the pvp aspect??

[korveenishere]

idk. maybe ppl just dont like it but if ur having problems just change ur region till you find ppl

[Hecro]

Because my Galatine swings slow as hell

[Zephici]

I have been playing conclaive time to time, and i have some propblems about it. So here are my problems that turning me off from it; 

 First of all, Third person angle that game has right now can't keep up with the speed of the conclaive, most of the time you struggle  to see your enemy instead of tryin to shoot them because of your warframe just blocks 3/1 of your viev, this is more annoying when you aim glide, you start to use your warframe as a crosshair that you can't see throu.

 Secondly, when people get more and more better at it, they start to bunny hopp alot and this results in two players jumping around of eachother and this is bad because this stops the game alot.

 And lastly there is some players and that probably only players that play conclaive is so damn good at conclaive and rekts anyone who will want to play conclaive and imidietly turns them off of conclaive.

 So what they could do to fix conclaive is, adding a cooldown or energy drain to the parkour abilities like bullet jump, double jump, aim glide etc, they could instead of nerfing and buffing every gun one by one,they could made them into groups of different weapon types and remove the power gap between some weapons and they could adjust the current camera viev to something more fit for the speed of the conclaive. And i also want to add that no one would want to play warframe for it's pvp, most of the players is playing this game for it's endless farming experiance, so i wouldn't get boud to the conclaive.

Edited September 7, 2017 by -RAW-DoomBringer

[StinkyPygmy]

Because the general consensus  seems to be it's objectively bad due to its steep learning curve and wonky gameplay.

Edited September 7, 2017 by StinkyPygmy

[Zytin_]

wonky lol 

[MobyTheDuck]

Several reasons.

Gameplay and flow are different from normal PvE
Far higher learning curve
No skill based matchmaking
90% of the rewards after rounds and stuff you can get from Teshin are just more stuff to use in PvP
Skins and armor takes a long time to both reach the rank and gather the necessary standing
New players get stomped by long-time players/tryhards and never touch the mode again
Standing gain on kills is way too low and standing rewards from challenges got cut in half
DE theatens people with bans if they boost challenges with friends
Most people dont play a PvE game for PvP
Some people dont notice the PvP menu

[Brasten]

9 hours ago, MobyTheDuck said:

Skins and armor takes a long time to both reach the rank and gather the necessary standing
New players get stomped by long-time players/tryhards and never touch the mode again
Standing gain on kills is way too low and standing rewards from challenges got cut in half
DE theatens people with bans if they boost challenges with friends

These are some of the larger reasons outside of the purely mechanical ones. Which is compounded by...

9 hours ago, MobyTheDuck said:

No skill based matchmaking

 

Conclave is one of the fastest PvP shooter environments you can find right now. It rivals Call of Duty on "Time to Kil". Has a vertically you'd only find in something like Law Breakers. And plays at a general speed comparable to Quake Arena/Unreal Tournament (and Quake Champions). And as people have found, once their nostalgia goggles are smashed, the vast majority of people are NOT good at Quake and Unreal. That LAN Parties and early online MP against mostly friends was very much a limited sample size. Many of the criticisms I've seen for Quake Champions also apply to Warframe Conclave in many respects.  Desyncs, wonky hitboxes, and detection (possibly too tight to the models), bad imbalances in the kits/weapons.

I still feel the PvP team jumped the gun with how many weapons, Warframes and MODS that got added to the mode without nailing down and refinding the core play. We really should scale back to just Excalibur and the "Starter" weapons. The Mods should also likely be removed, re-examined, and slowly added back in after the gameplay is cleaned up.

[Koldraxon-732]

Here's my list of personal gripes I continue to have with Conclave in general:

Spoiler

-No matchmaking filters (skill, objective completion ability, mobility rate, etc..., resulting in pros being paired against noobs all the time, or being paired against people who only do it to stock up on Standing for whenever Conclave gets more cosmetics).
-Lack of population (due to the best of the best playing it all the time due to PVE burnout or finding PVP fun, resulting in every new person failing badly).
Example of a new person: Someone who DOESN'T use ANY mobility and just walks around, stands still to aim, and takes forever to do anything. I encountered one, an Excalibur in green and red with a Cernos. I could walk away from him while firing at him and he wouldn't do anything except trying to melee, when I was at the minimum safe distance.
-Weapon balancing is weird (huge, deadly weapons like Zarr have an explosion radius and damage output that make them useless unless its a very specific situation, Ballistica Prime arrows are so slow that the entire weapon is useless, and weapons have clip sizes and ammo capacities that don't reflect their PVE counterparts, making practicing in Rathuum or Index a waste of time).
-Half of the Warframes have powers that don't do anything (such as Chroma's Elemental Ward only creating a small damage field, or Inaros' Sandstorm, let alone Hydroid's Tempest Barrage), or cost too much - and don't work  -to use.
-Tenno-hosted servers are like black holes; they pull you into a lobby, but there's nobody else there. And when there is, they leave for any number of reasons (such as me being higher MR and am equipped more appropriately)!
-Parkour is both cancerous, and limited (some Warframes, like Inaros, can't parkour fast enough and so are more like walking targets, easily picked off by a few sniper shots, but if modded correctly you could fling yourself across the map without the melee equipped and avoid all damage, while somehow hitting all the enemies you passed and killing them). I would suggest reintroducing the Stamina Bar to force them to use parkour in a more strategic fashion - like a jetpack.
-Sprinting is useless in all cases, unless you're Loki or Nezha.
-The pacing is so fast -when a pro is in action- that newer players, or people who aren't used to it, automatically give up because they have no way to counter them because they don't know how, or their method has a solution to all counters.

Though that may just be me.

[JefPlays]

Conclave, dead? It was never alive to begin with...

[Tsunero]

Because the majority of players never asked for it and the minority is not big enough to sustain its activities. Also, horrible rep gain, lackluster rewards, all around unbalanced, p2p match making makes it laggy etc, not even the few player hosted dedicated servers could save it.

[mrrobotto67]

There is nothing into it TBH. Everything in conclave is Meh at best.

[-N7-Leonhart]

On 9/10/2017 at 7:26 PM, Jeffrey94 said:

Conclave, dead? It was never alive to begin with...

It was very alive not that long ago. But I guess that the type of players that converge in Warframe are exactly those that want to run away from PvP in the first place...

[Doforcash]

the answer for "why conclave is dead" is lied on another question

- Why was Conclave matter again ?

[Burns2PvP]

2 hours ago, Doforcash said:

- Why was Conclave matter again ?

End game content, usually most PvP systems are aimed for the endgamers to be able to have a place to blow some time.

 

 

 

I believe conclave is dead because they specifically targeted the newer players. They made it so slow and so clunky (due to lack of speed / damage) that it's near unplayable. The flying aspect should also be removed as it makes it near impossible to kill someone flying sideways.. Lack of damage from all weapons.

They added a syndicate to try to get people to go to PvP too which was another mistake. It should be that PvP is for PvP specifically, not to grind another thing in this game.

 

I believe they need to rework the warframes movement first, then make a PvP update. Maybe make the WF movement a bit slower without the ctrl+jump/roll (doubt it'll happen any day soon though)

#Bringbackconclave1.0

Edited September 12, 2017 by deadinflict

[-Dice-]

On 9/7/2017 at 4:45 PM, -RAW-DoomBringer said:

abilities like bullet jump, double jump, aim glide

Bullet Jump, double jump, aim glide are not abilities, they're a tool for movement like sprint. If add cool down for Bullet Jump then do the same for PvE too, why only PvP. If it's too difficult to shoot then practice to get better at tracking fast target. 

On 9/7/2017 at 4:45 PM, -RAW-DoomBringer said:

for the speed of the conclaive

3 hours ago, deadinflict said:

make the WF movement a bit slower

 

This speed you speak of will be reduced/slower if you add cooldown to those movements.

People think maybe they have better chance if cooldown is added to movement because it will make it easier for them to aim, yes that is true but it will be easier for the vets you speak of as well who dominate lobbies. You get killed by them over and over again, it will still keep happening but even more frequently as you cannot move around as fast so it will be way easier for them to gun down enemies. Such change won't erase their muscle memory or experience. 

One question i ask to people who complain on movement is-
You think it's tough to fire at enemies moving fast and bullet jumping? Then why do you not do it too instead of sprinting/walking?

They don't utilize the movement to even half of the capabilities of it, they shoot while walking slowly or standing and get killed and they complain. You must make evasive movements to avoid fire, that is case for any PvP game, think about it.

Game should not be made easier because it's too tough for new players to learn, Players should adapt with the well balanced system of Conclave. This game mode will interest people who are into PvP and look for good challenge, you must be dedicated to a certain amount in any PvP game to win a match, that does not make one a try hard.

Edited September 13, 2017 by -Dice-

[Burns2PvP]

1 hour ago, -Dice- said:

You think it's tough to fire at enemies moving fast and bullet jumping? Then why do you not do it too instead of sprinting/walking?

 

We used to have this, now it's slower in comparison to movement 2.0 warframe... in comparison to conclave 2.0 movement

I'm not talking about slowing everything down, more so grounding it.

We as Warframes are too floaty as is, regardless of which suit you pick. My solution would be to keep us more on the ground rather than flying around like madmen. I don't like this new (for lack of a better term) Archwing* related PvP style where we fly around, stop, aim in all directions possible, shoot, get minimal damage and have to spray then repeat

Edited September 13, 2017 by deadinflict

[Stormdragon]

On 8/9/2017 at 4:50 AM, MobyTheDuck said:

Gameplay and flow are different from normal PvE

Gameplay is exactly the same: same parkour capabilities, same modding system (with different mods), same damage system and even the same damage system (damage 2.0). The flow changes depending on the enemies in it, so while some matches can get to be way more intense than any PvE mission, others can feel almost as going against grineer (like getting in a match full of new players who don't even know how to properly move. No offense intended for anyone in this position)

On 8/9/2017 at 4:50 AM, MobyTheDuck said:

Far higher learning curve

PvE allows to progress without ever learning anything about the game. Just grind endo, look for some meta builds on youtube or ask for one here in forums or reddit, slap some forma, max the mods needed and done, you're ready to go against high level content. Why to improve parkour abilities or even aiming when everything dies before even getting in your line of sight? Who needs energy management when energy pads, trinity, harrow, rage, equilibrium, arcanes, etc. exist in game? ^{and I could go on and on here}

On 8/9/2017 at 4:50 AM, MobyTheDuck said:

90% of the rewards after rounds and stuff you can get from Teshin are just more stuff to use in PvP

And yet many players cry if the idea of a conclave syndicate weapon is mentioned since they wouldn't be able to get it right on release. Others don't mind as long as it can't be used on PvE and has no mastery attached, which makes this part of the argument a little dumb.

On 8/9/2017 at 4:50 AM, MobyTheDuck said:

Skins and armor takes a long time to both reach the rank and gather the necessary standing

Just the usual "gimme now, DE" complaint seen on every other thing regardless of it being a pve item (see: hema, daily login weapons and catch up system, etc.) I wouldn't see it as a big issue with conclave but with people expecting to get everything asap (in a game about efficient farming) instead.

On 8/9/2017 at 4:50 AM, MobyTheDuck said:

New players get stomped by long-time players/tryhards and never touch the mode again

Tryhards staying in RC wrecking new players is an actual issue, kust like being able to leave RC right after being stomped by a tryhard only to find lobbies full of both, experienced players and tryhards exploiting whatever is broken atm.

On 8/9/2017 at 4:50 AM, MobyTheDuck said:

Standing gain on kills is way too low and standing rewards from challenges got cut in half

Standing on kill was increased to make up for challenges rep being halved in order to encourage participation instead of staying afk or doing circles  in a corner. Thank people who hates pvp for organizing peaceful win/kill/challenges trading lobbies for this change.

On 8/9/2017 at 4:50 AM, MobyTheDuck said:

DE theatens people with bans if they boost challenges with friends

Win trading is a bannable offense in any pvp game, I don't see why conclave should be different. The fact that support sent warnings to people doing it implies that some players saw their enjoyment of the game ruined by this behavior and that DE is also against people boosting challenges with friends. Hopefully they add some more measures in the future to further discourage this behavior.

On 8/9/2017 at 4:50 AM, MobyTheDuck said:

Most people dont play a PvE game for PvP

Warframe PvP is unique, reason why some players come here mostly for it and get diacouraged by the huge amount of PvE walls put before being able to even join the syndicate. These being a minority doesn't remove their existence.

4 hours ago, deadinflict said:

End game content, usually most PvP systems are aimed for the endgamers to be able to have a place to blow some time.

I could agree with conclave currently being the end game in warframe. It's one of the few (if not the only) parts of the game that requires skill, not builds providing bigger numbers, abusing bugs, glitches and broken interaction between weapons, powers and certain focus schools to be successful.

4 hours ago, deadinflict said:

I believe conclave is dead because they specifically targeted the newer players. They made it so slow and so clunky (due to lack of speed / damage) that it's near unplayable. The flying aspect should also be removed as it makes it near impossible to kill someone flying sideways.. Lack of damage from all weapons.

Innate warframe speed movement in conclave ranges from 0.8 to 1.0 (being 1.0 standard PvE mobility); and can be changed by a range of values going from -0.4 to +0.2 with mods that add damage reduction or change the efective health of the warframe (so slower warframes will be tankier than those relying mostly on mobility to survive). 

The "lack of damage" is compensated by a not so huge EHP pool; in a simple way and forgetting damage 2.0 for a second, a braton dealing 30 damage should kill an excalibur with 240 effective health points in the same time as another braton dealing 3 billions of damage would kill another excal with 24 billions of ehp. Why to increase how complex is the system by adding more zeroes if the result is the same? Or probably you want to go back to the times where even soma prime could One-Hit-Kill a rhino with iron skin on which was still dumb.

1 hour ago, deadinflict said:

  Hide contents

We used to have this, now it's slower in comparison to movement 2.0 warframe... in comparison to conclave 2.0 movement

I'm not talking about slowing everything down, more so grounding it.

We as Warframes are too floaty as is, regardless of which suit you pick. My solution would be to keep us more on the ground rather than flying around like madmen. I don't like this new (for lack of a better term) Archwing* related PvP style where we fly around, stop, aim in all directions possible, shoot, get minimal damage and have to spray then repeat

Wall slingshot was a bug, just like melee coptering and both were removed for a reason. Conclave 1.0 was fun, but unless DE suddenly decided to go back to parkour 1.0 on the whole game, I don't think it's ever coming back since it's main issue was being ruled by PvE's lack of balance, reason why 2.0 brought it's own set of mods, some warframe powers adapted to a pvp environment and weapons with different damage when compared to their pve versions, but always keeping them as loyal as possible to their PvE identity in order to make player transition between modes as smoith as possible.

[phoenix1992]

I lost more interest in Conclave, when stances were split.
And it never helped that in order to gain information about current Conclave balancing you have to spend ungodly amount of time. 

[spyvspyaeon]

 I've tried and felt sooo pathethic .......

player LEVEL 0 play (OR LOOSE constantly) with PRO players, conclave fails in concept

Edited September 13, 2017 by spyvspyaeon

[-Dice-]

10 hours ago, deadinflict said:

 

I asked about it to old player, he say that was faster than what it is now. Current mobility is 1.2 max and in Conclave 1.0 it was 1.6 and something called coptering was used in match to move quick. If current speed is problem then old system will be even more problem for those not fan of the current 1.2 speed/movement, old movement looks more slippery and would need to adapt to flicks to hit targets mostly i think. Personally i would like to experience the 1.6 battle, would be intense but i can feel many casual players would disagree.

 

5 hours ago, phoenix1992 said:

you have to spend ungodly amount of time

not true, here is 3 things that have basically everything.

Spoiler

General Conclave information = (https://docs.google.com/document/d/18DHluUaK562GoXPH6Hfr-KALTxoT12PmGO70t_2Gy2k/edit)

All weapons = (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10YSwNYX8aV2P187XyNf3Gjs9HFf-V6BnMsSe2AXiplw/edit#gid=0)

How to move 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2017 by -Dice-

[PrimoValkyria]

The Oro system is just dumb, having kills stolen...after you already killed someone is bad design. Walking around a corner and picking up 2 Oro from people you just saw die doesn't feel good either and takes zero skill. Movement is fine though. Something I'd like to see changed is how the mod system works. Having a Conclave only endo that is earned from matches or just giving everyone unranked versions of each mod would encourage some creativity and allow newer players to feel like they have options. A lot of the frames abilities just don't translate over well to PvP, so it'd be cool to have the option to just also put everyone on equal ground and disable frame passives, abilities, and/or mods.

[Zephici]

On 13.09.2017 at 5:51 AM, -Dice- said:

They don't utilize the movement to even half of the capabilities of it, they shoot while walking slowly or standing and get killed and they complain. You must make evasive movements to avoid fire, that is case for any PvP game, think about it.

i am not saying that parkour abilities(tools, whatever) should be removed.Peope don't just use parkour to be evasive. THEY ABUSE THE PARKOUR. They just find somone whose doesn't know about how op you become when you start spaming double jump, and lach onto him untill he either ragequits or starts to bunny hopp either. I have seen that happening many times, i have no problem with pro players with good aims, utilizing parkour to be better but imo people just spam the parkour to simulate that they are good at conclaive. since there is no matchmaking nor there are any players to matchmake, you can't group players by how good they are, and thus making the learning curve a brick wall that every new player toses to it. some fail to climb, others just double jump around it...

[Ambiroa]

You can support The Amazing Eternals instead, I think Conclave is RIP next year.

[.Zel]

9 hours ago, -RAW-DoomBringer said:

THEY ABUSE THE PARKOUR

I agree some players do mash buttons to do whatever they can to escape/not get shot but those are only the ones who are new and learning. But wouldn't you do whatever you can to survive if someone was trying to kill you?

New players only get started and they try to utilize the tools within their disposal the best they can to survive, may seem "abusing" but it's only natural to do so, people with good aim will still be able to get the kill because it has been proven multiple times that superior movement can't compete against superior aim.

1 hour ago, Ambiroa said:

You can support The Amazing Eternals instead, I think Conclave is RIP next year.

Can't really claim it will die when you haven't spent much time playing it. I played TAE and i did really good in my last matches, but i don't feel like i did well solely because of my experience in pvp games, i did well because it was horribly balanced and i knew how to use that to my advantage but it's still in beta so i wonder what the final game will be like. Personally, i doubt it will be able to beat the 2 obvious better choices but only time will tell.

[phoenix1992]

On 9/13/2017 at 5:03 PM, -Dice- said:

not true, here is 3 things that have basically everything.

 

Now here is the deal,
If I have to open a fan made google doc that is modifier by a random person (hats off for the hard work, make no mistake) in order to browse upon the 100+ weapons in my inventory and compare it, we have an non small issue.
The In game information considering what does what in what kind of fashion and in what power levels is vague. If the entering slope to enter a PvP match and have any sort of meaningful output is those documents you listed... Good luck finding fresh blood for Conclave. And this is not a case of "gid gud", it is a case of "too much work and information intake for questionable pay off".
Again, hats off to all Conclave players that try so hard to give PvP information, but until DE interferes and changes some things Conclave will be another button in the Orbiter, akin to the radio.