Should passive energy regeneration be a norm for our Warframes? (Like Archwing)

[Sziklamester]

20 minutes ago, kyori said:

Yes. We are hi-tech space ninja yet cannot regenerate health or energy

Pretty much this.

[LokiTheCondom]

2 hours ago, kyori said:

Yes. We are hi-tech space ninja yet cannot regenerate health or energy

"But muh challenge and edge!"

[IceColdHawk]

1 hour ago, LokiTheCondom said:

"But muh challenge and edge!"

Heh. Challenge. When the highest level content (sorties/raids) are bound to terrible RNG and punish you most of the time than reward you.

I won't mind a nice challenge. But a nice challenge should feel rewarding. Something that this game is far away from. Then again, warframe isn't the only game out there.

[Air-mage]

 

On 2017. 09. 24. at 9:29 PM, polarity said:

No, they are not.

Very few players will deny that the most recent frames, Nidus, Titania, Octavia, Harrow and Inaros are in a very strong position when looking at frame balance.  They do not need energy regen, because they can either generate all they need by themselves, or do not need any more than drops from enemies in order to keep abilities active, meaning they will be unaffected by its removal.  That leaves older frames in a much worse position, because right now, they are using that regen to compete with frames that are already stronger.
 

And one more thing, if one energy regen source is removed, then players will instead use others.  You can expect to see a lot more people going back to Synoid Simulors because of the energy return from using it.  At least with Energy Overflow we could drop it and make use of other weapons.

but those new frames also benefit less from infinite energy, and there are many enemies who are specifically were made to counter abilities to begin with

[krc473]

9 hours ago, Kimimoto said:

Great solution!

Thanks!

For what I do, passive regen is helpful, but not essential. There are ways around it.

In saying that, I wouldn’t complain if it was introduced.

[-QUILL_PETER-]

On 9/17/2017 at 7:01 AM, Flandyrll said:

Does ammo regenerate? Then we don't need a universal Energy Regen.

Imagine if energy orbs dropped as much as ammo. Your argument is completely invalid.

[Tsardova]

13 hours ago, daSweep said:

Yes, absolutely. People can go on and on about building for efficiency, but it doesn't matter how much your abilities cost if you don't have any energy to begin with. I've recently gotten into playing Atlas quite a bit, he's good fun if you like punching things, but he's 100% dependant on energy to work. I can max out my power strength (using Blind Rage of course), which makes me punch high level mobs to death with 2-3 punches. It feels great, but it also costs about 30 energy to do. This is what it takes to kill high level enemies with a frame like Atlas. I can't remove power strength for more efficiency because then it will take more punches, which will cost more energy anyway. I can use my Tigris Prime and just shoot them instead, but what's the point in having so many Warframes if you only use weapons to kill high level mobs either way?

Let's compare this to another frame I use quite a lot: Ash. I can equip Ash with maximum efficiency and power range, slap on his teleport augment and a covert lethality dagger and one shot any regular enemy, regardless of level, for almost no energy. Sure, it will take some energy to cast teleport, but most of that is refunded right away. So for 30 energy I can kill a high level corrupted bombard with Atlas, pucnhing him in the face, but with Ash I get that basically for free. Also while being invisible, for laughs. Atlas is immune to damage while punching stuff, which is also great, but the moment my energy is out, he's dead in the water. No punches for him.

My point is, the balance of damage and power of the different frames are so out of whack that it's impossible to say: "Eh, just mod for efficiency, pick up energy balls". Well, some frames can't kill stuff or survive without using quite a lot of energy, and if no energy balls drop then you are out of luck.

Ideally I would rather see that powers are just free, but with cooldowns instead. Nothing super major, like the first Mass Effect for example, where you pushed some enemies and then waited 30 seconds to push something else. Think more like this; all "primary powers" (the first power, punching for Atlas and shurikens for Ash for example) are free, with no cooldown. These are usually quite weak, or they define the frame too much (like it Atlas' case) that they are too dependant on energy. Powers 2 and 3 have moderate cooldowns, and the ultimate 4 ability has a bit longer cooldown. Now, I haven't taken ALL frames into account for this, it's just a thought I had right now, but it could work.

Sorry for the humomgous post, but this is an interesting subject.

What scenario dictates the utter necessity of using power/ skill though? 25 energy for a 4 skill is plenty generous to begin with for a full efficiency build, that and it sorta ties into power durations as well. Pumping more power to sacrifice efficiency etc was your own choice anyways so it's a power under your consideration sorta business.  Always have been.

It ain't like you'll be in clutch plays 24/7 where you'll be in shortage of energy all the time when you absolutely need it nor are you gonna run out of energy if you're playing normally (balancing weapons and powers).

Long as you're not furiously bumping power hotkeys/ use powers excessively yet somehow not yielding any kills ergo energy orb shortage then it shouldn't be too big a problem.

Every frame will be in the same problem regardless of efficiency build if there's an energy leech present, even moreso if it literally cuddles with a nullifier. That's when your weapon is relevant. "Post endgame/ endgamr" environment pre much wants you to use both your frame's kit and loadout anyways.

Ash's kit is strong compared to atlas sure but atlas is pre much built as a semi tank sorta cc in starchart to begin with, Ash is on the same boat as loki in terms of cc in that they're built around killing enemies fast. In and out sorta cc. Diff frames, diff designs/ playstyles; comparing them in a similar environment is gonna be moot since they aren't supposed to be the same in terms of their intended playstyle ergo energy economy, etc.

Your weapons are there for a reason, balancing power and weapon play is what makes optimizing / forma-ing both aspects such a rewarding experience. Ergo creating a loadout that synergizes with your frame's kit will be even more rewarding.

You can just kill several enemies for a chance at energy orb, which isn't an ultra rare drop anyways and you're bound to get a few as you kill mobs to slow down your energy hemorrhage. Consider this period your Cooldown if you want such a system.

Support frames are there too but if you're on solo, pizzas are there and they're cheap asf to craft. Evasive maneuvers cut damage intake up to 50%(?) last I heard, that and parkour mechanic is there to get you in and out of the frying pan with relatively minimal danger on you. Just hop out, find a safe spot, pop a pizza, ya good.

An inherent personal need of staying in the heat of combat doesn't mean a design aspect is flawed per se. It's a choice of playstyle, if you can choose to spam your kit then the repercussions are yours to bear. Strength through moderation/ consideration. 

Adding Cooldown on skills is a bit of a backwards step on my book too since of it's there to an excess then you'll have too much energy on your hand that you won't use anyways.

That and it'll leave your frame more vulnerable than they should be so they're pre much stuck to hiding behind walls for safety on (post) endgame content, which breaks the combat tempo that innate energy Regen proposed to begin with. 

In parallel,  having more energy Regen is pre much a band aid to cater to people who button mashes their power like no tomorrow only to have them face similar hang time of waiting a couple seconds for the energy to hit a sufficient amount before skill spamming again. Not even gonna talk about energy overflow lvl Regen cuz that just makes support frames less relevant. 

Holy wallpost tldr? Learn energy economy / balancing weapon and power playstyle more while considering your frame's designed strengths/ weakness.

Edited October 9, 2017 by Tsardova

[Nirrel]

14 minutes ago, Tsardova said:

What scenario dictates the utter necessity of using power/ skill though? 25 energy for a 4 skill is plenty generous to begin with for a full efficiency build, that and it sorta ties into power durations as well. Pumping more power to sacrifice efficiency etc was your own choice anyways so it's a power under your consideration sorta business.  Always have been.

It ain't like you'll be in clutch plays 24/7 where you'll be in shortage of energy all the time when you absolutely need it nor are you gonna run out of energy if you're playing normally (balancing weapons and powers).

Long as you're not furiously bumping power hotkeys/ use powers excessively yet somehow not yielding any kills ergo energy orb shortage then it shouldn't be too big a problem.

Every frame will be in the same problem regardless of efficiency build if there's an energy leech present, even moreso if it literally cuddles with a nullifier. That's when your weapon is relevant. "Post endgame/ endgamr" environment pre much wants you to use both your frame's kit and loadout anyways.

Ash's kit is strong compared to atlas sure but atlas is pre much built as a semi tank sorta cc in starchart to begin with, Ash is on the same boat as loki in terms of cc in that they're built around killing enemies fast. In and out sorta cc. Diff frames, diff designs/ playstyles; comparing them in a similar environment is gonna be moot since they aren't supposed to be the same in terms of their intended playstyle ergo energy economy, etc.

Your weapons are there for a reason, balancing power and weapon play is what makes optimizing / forma-ing both aspects such a rewarding experience. Ergo creating a loadout that synergizes with your frame's kit will be even more rewarding.

You can just kill several enemies for a chance at energy orb, which isn't an ultra rare drop anyways and you're bound to get a few as you kill mobs to slow down your energy hemorrhage. Consider this period your Cooldown if you want such a system.

Support frames are there too but if you're on solo, pizzas are there and they're cheap asf to craft. Evasive maneuvers cut damage intake up to 50%(?) last I heard, that and parkour mechanic is there to get you in and out of the frying pan with relatively minimal danger on you. Just hop out, find a safe spot, pop a pizza, ya good.

An inherent personal need of staying in the heat of combat doesn't mean a design aspect is flawed per se. It's a choice of playstyle, if you can choose to spam your kit then the repercussions are yours to bear. Strength through moderation/ consideration. 

Adding Cooldown on skills is a bit of a backwards step on my book too since of it's there to an excess then you'll have too much energy on your hand that you won't use anyways.

That and it'll leave your frame more vulnerable than they should be so they're pre much stuck to hiding behind walls for safety on (post) endgame content, which breaks the combat tempo that innate energy Regen proposed to begin with. 

In parallel,  having more energy Regen is pre much a band aid to cater to people who button mashes their power like no tomorrow only to have them face similar hang time of waiting a couple seconds for the energy to hit a sufficient amount before skill spamming again. Not even gonna talk about energy overflow lvl Regen cuz that just makes support frames less relevant. 

Holy wallpost tldr? Learn energy economy / balancing weapon and power playstyle more while considering your frame's designed strengths/ weakness.

You didn't get it. Energy economy in the game does not exist as it is now and wont exist until we know what we can economize on. You do not know if you will have a trinity in the group, you do not know how many energy balls will drop, 1 energy siphon isn't good enough and you don't know if anybody will bring another one. The only thing you can count on are your pizzas. There is your economy, if you have the resources.

Passive energy regen should be the base and everthing else built around it. Once DE knows how much energy the player has access to at any time all other energy gain systems can be railed in and abilities balanced around it...Other things nerfed (pizzas wich lets be honest are total energy creeps), reworked (trinity) and so on... 

 

 

 

 

[Tsardova]

Just now, Nirrel said:

You didn't get it. Energy economy in the game does not exist as it is now and wont exist until we know what we can economize on. You do not know if you will have a trinity in the group, you do not know how many energy balls will drop, 1 energy siphon isn't good enough and you don't know if anybody will bring another one. The only thing you can count on are your pizzas. There is your economy, if you have the resources.

Passive energy regen should be the base and everthing else built around it. Once DE knows how much energy the player has access to at any time all other energy gain systems can be railed in and abilities balanced around it...Other things nerfed (pizzas wich lets be honest are total energy creeps), reworked (trinity) and so on... 

 

 

 

 

We already have energy economy...  Just cause you prefer being able to spam powers doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You start off missions with some energy given to you, how you manage/ economize it is all up to you.

Saying energy economy doesn't exist is pre much saying you don't have energy 24/7, which only really occurs because of your choice of frame build and playstyle.

Fact of the matter is, your argument has been focused about having no energy while the topic has been about energy upkeep, to which there are options to choose from to circumvent it (even to the extent of running out of energy 24/7). 

You CAN look for a trin to party up, Energy orb drops are generous enough as is especially is you clean mobs quickly, Energy siphon serves it's purpose fine and most newbies use it on their kit. If all else fails, again you can just communicate and ask your party member if they have energy siphon.

Even if pizza is the only economy you wanna admit then it's there anyways.

Not even gonna talk about energy penalty conditions in sorties at this point of 0 energy is your main argument, no offense.

The "issue" has been discussed on multiple dev streams far as I remember and energy Regen has stayed behind energy siphon and overflow cause people learned energy economy even if they don't like energy shortages.

There's a reason energy cost bumps up in lieu with power strength for the most part; balancing, as you've noted.

1400 hours in and never in my experience with my cell mates have we really needed all 4 of us to be on energy siphon or even need a trin/ any support frame when others/ everyone has a max power/ minimal efficiency build. 

Again, learn to adjust your playstyle and keep each frame's theme/ intended design/ playstyle in mind so you can optimize your energy to damage output. Balancing your weapons/ skill set usage will get even non-meta frames last as long as meta ones in longer stretches of endless missions.

Edited October 10, 2017 by Tsardova

[Nirrel]

13 minutes ago, Tsardova said:

We already have energy economy...  Just cause you prefer being able to spam powers doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You start off missions with some energy given to you, how you manage/ economize it is all up to you.

Saying energy economy doesn't exist is pre much saying you don't have energy 24/7, which only really occurs because of your choice of frame build and playstyle.

Fact of the matter is, your argument has been focused about having no energy while the topic has been about energy upkeep, to which there are options to choose from to circumvent it (even to the extent of running out of energy 24/7). 

You CAN look for a trin to party up, Energy orb drops are generous enough as is especially is you clean mobs quickly, Energy siphon serves it's purpose fine and most newbies use it on their kit. If all else fails, again you can just communicate and ask your party member if they have energy siphon.

Even if pizza is the only economy you wanna admit then it's there anyways.

Not even gonna talk about energy penalty conditions in sorties at this point of 0 energy is your main argument, no offense.

The "issue" has been discussed on multiple devices streams far as I remember and energy Regen has stayed behind energy siphon and overflow cause people learned energy economy even if they don't like energy shortages.

There's a reason energy cost bumps up in lieu with power strength for the most part; balancing, as you've noted.

1400 hours in and never in my experience with my cell mates have we really needed all 4 of us to be on energy siphon or even need a trin/ any support frame when others/ everyone has a max power/ minimal efficiency build. 

Again, learn to adjust your playstyle and keep each frame's theme/ intended design/ playstyle in mind so you can optimize your energy to damage output. Balancing your weapons/ skill set usage will get even non-meta frames last as long as meta ones in longer stretches of endless missions.

You still don't understand the point. I can spam endlessly with what we have. Pizzas are OP and I can have as much as I want. That alone gives me the possibility to spam. You think that ppl say so because they cannot spam, but in fact they can. They always could, that's why all those enemies that can strip your energy and your powers are in game. They where in before EO even existed. That is not balanced energy economy, it's objectively a mess. So it's not at all "saying you don't have energy 24/7, which only really occurs because of your choice of frame build and playstyle" .

Most players cannot team up with a trinity at will, and even if... Isn't trinity is insanely OP when it comes to give energy? Is that okay? That is not unbalanced that now you can cheese everything with your powers?

True pizza is always there...for me though because I played more than 1600 hours and I have pretty much infinite resources, but that's certainly not the case for newbies. But even if.....I put down one or two or three and can spam even abilities I do not have....Is that balanced energy economy?

Ppl did not learn energy economy with EO, ppl finally had something to economize and rely on, and made good use of it.

I do not need to adjust anything. What I'm saying is perfectly logical and would make for a more balanced game.

[Tsardova]

Just now, Nirrel said:

You still don't understand the point. I can spam endlessly with what we have. Pizzas are OP and I can have as much as I want. That alone gives me the possibility to spam. You think that ppl say so because they cannot spam, but in fact they can. They always could, that's why all those enemies that can strip your energy and your powers are in game. They where in before EO even existed. That is not balanced energy economy, it's objectively a mess. So it's not at all "saying you don't have energy 24/7, which only really occurs because of your choice of frame build and playstyle" .

Most players cannot team up with a trinity at will, and even if... Isn't trinity is insanely OP when it comes to give energy? Is that okay? That is not unbalanced that now you can cheese everything with your powers?

True pizza is always there...for me though because I played more than 1600 hours and I have pretty much infinite resources, but that's certainly not the case for newbies. But even if.....I put down one or two or three and can spam even abilities I do not have....Is that balanced energy economy?

Ppl did not learn energy economy with EO, ppl finally had something to economize and rely on, and made good use of it.

I do not need to adjust anything. What I'm saying is perfectly logical and would make for a more balanced game.

No... These enemies are ingame as hazards. Explicitly implemented ingame to have people who rely on powers excessively to be more aware of their surroundings and use their arsenal in balance compared to relying too much on their frame.

You assume people complained because...  Just for the heck of it?... If they can spam then why would they even need to complain to the point innate energy Regen is a necessity? 

Are we talking about energy economy or balance here? Pick your poison mate, cause evidently DE has been inclined more on aesthetic and thematic approach so far with balance teetering in between.

The only reason you can't party up with a trin would really be down to you not motivated enough to finding one to tag. As for trinity giving energy to her teammates,  why are you even complaining if you're so bent on wanting energy Regen? It just doesn't make sense to argue a frame's intended purpose in a cell as overpowered when it functions as a fix to your perceived issue.

Pizzas are readily available for mid tier players and they're bound to have enough resources to keep up. Wf is synonymous to the term grind so arguing otherwise is moot. Newbies aren't even in an inherent need of pizzas since they'll be more focused on forma-ing and leveling their frames, I.e. still trying to figure out their choice of playstyle and favored arsenal to even bother with pizzas or be concerned excessively about energy economy to your extent.

EO only trivialized energy economy, not activate it. Again, people have voiced that they didn't need EO to get by high level content.

If you refuse to acknowledge that energy economy is there already albeit less than accessible to your own personal preference/ standard then the problem may not be inherently from the game but in your inability to accept DE's fair design choice.

Edited October 10, 2017 by Tsardova

[CY13ERPUNK]

im all for passive energy regen, but it needs to be fairly slow [pizzas have always been cancer imho]

it could also be uniquely different for each frame, ie it could only say regen upto 30-60% of a frames max energy total and/or faster or slower rates {ive posted several times about how i think would be a good tool to further differentiate the frames} 

[Voltage]

1 hour ago, Tsardova said:

The only reason you can't party up with a trin would really be down to you not motivated enough to finding one to tag. As for trinity giving energy to her teammates,  why are you even complaining if you're so bent on wanting energy Regen? It just doesn't make sense to argue a frame's intended purpose in a cell as overpowered when it functions as a fix to your perceived issue.

Pizzas are readily available for mid tier players and they're bound to have enough resources to keep up. Wf is synonymous to the term grind so arguing otherwise is moot. Newbies aren't even in an inherent need of pizzas since they'll be more focused on forma-ing and leveling their frames, I.e. still trying to figure out their choice of playstyle and favored arsenal to even bother with pizzas or be concerned excessively about energy economy to your extent.

EO only trivialized energy economy, not activate it. Again, people have voiced that they didn't need EO to get by high level content.

I shouldn't have to enslave someone because my caster frame needs to use their kit potential. Energy regen passively has allowed caster frames to play solo or at least without a full time slave Trinity giving them energy. Frames like Vauban and Mag are going to go further down the "not worth it" list because of their hunger for energy.

I am someone who does trials quite often. I am not new to pads and how much they cost and their uses. I spend massive amounts of resources weekly building the things, and yes they are a source. I should not under any circumstances need pads to make my frame function normally though. Efficiency trade off for strength is one thing, but needing pads constantly to maintain abilities on a caster role is pretty ridiculous.

EO enabled many frames to play freely from the clutch of trinity and allowed for more versatile gameplay between them.

Lastly, I am truely cannot understand why people with a similar mentality to you think this game will be enjoyable energy wise when we end up in old Draco ages between the Gmag nerf and Focus introduction where EV Trinity was spammed across any mission in recruiting due to the nature of caster frames without reliable regen.

Edited October 10, 2017 by --Q--Voltage

[Nirrel]

1 hour ago, Tsardova said:

No... These enemies are ingame as hazards. Explicitly implemented ingame to have people who rely on powers excessively to be more aware of their surroundings and use their arsenal in balance compared to relying too much on their frame.

You assume people complained because...  Just for the heck of it?... If they can spam then why would they even need to complain to the point innate energy Regen is a necessity? 

Are we talking about energy economy or balance here? Pick your poison mate, cause evidently DE has been inclined more on aesthetic and thematic approach so far with balance teetering in between.

The only reason you can't party up with a trin would really be down to you not motivated enough to finding one to tag. As for trinity giving energy to her teammates,  why are you even complaining if you're so bent on wanting energy Regen? It just doesn't make sense to argue a frame's intended purpose in a cell as overpowered when it functions as a fix to your perceived issue.

Pizzas are readily available for mid tier players and they're bound to have enough resources to keep up. Wf is synonymous to the term grind so arguing otherwise is moot. Newbies aren't even in an inherent need of pizzas since they'll be more focused on forma-ing and leveling their frames, I.e. still trying to figure out their choice of playstyle and favored arsenal to even bother with pizzas or be concerned excessively about energy economy to your extent.

EO only trivialized energy economy, not activate it. Again, people have voiced that they didn't need EO to get by high level content.

If you refuse to acknowledge that energy economy is there already albeit less than accessible to your own personal preference/ standard then the problem may not be inherently from the game but in your inability to accept DE's fair design choice.

Those enemies where introduced in game because of the imbalance that was created before EO. That how bad the energy economy in game has always been with the potential spam. Ppl doesn't say that passive regen is a "necessity" to be able to use their abilities, but because having passive regen gave a continous gameplay without having to rely on trinity and pizzas.  They thought that the change to zenurik would mean that you have to go back to those. Now we know that the change to zenurik wont mean that we wont have all those energy per second, in fact we have even more in exchange of a minore/majore inconvinience with is the operatore in the middle.

Many ppl still think though that that kind of mechanic is not the way to go even if it gives more in return potentially, because the energy economy is still a mess and this still wont improve it, nothing was solved like this, only you are forced now to use your operatore to get extra energy wich is pretty clumsy at the moment.

The question of this thread is if passive energy regen should be introduced in the game as a mechanic for all frames as a norm, not dependent on focus shools.

In my opinion yes, because it would give the possibilty for obvious reasons to balance out the energy economy in game, wich righ now is not good. Having a fixed mechanic that it is the same for everybody would give the possibility to balance out frame abilities and consumables that right now are the worst offenders when it come to spam.

[IceColdHawk]

2 hours ago, Tsardova said:

Energy orb drops are generous enough as is especially is you clean mobs quickly

Yeah and especially when leeches take away more energy than a single energy orb can give. Totally generous.

2 hours ago, Tsardova said:

Energy siphon serves it's purpose fine and most newbies use it on their kit.

Since when is useless being fine? That is new to me. Since when do you actually notice .6 energy/second ? It must certainly not be warframe.

2 hours ago, Tsardova said:

The "issue" has been discussed on multiple dev streams far as I remember and energy Regen has stayed behind energy siphon and overflow cause people learned energy economy even if they don't like energy shortages.

No. It's cause people learned that zenurik is not only the only worthful tree besides op naramon but that it also allowed a whole new different ways of playing. There is a reason there is a huge demand for it and players talking everywhere about it. And that reason is not "Hurr i still have trin and pizzas". Talking about trin...

2 hours ago, Tsardova said:

You CAN look for a trin to party up

 

1 hour ago, Tsardova said:

The only reason you can't party up with a trin would really be down to you not motivated enough to finding one to tag.

Wtf is this for a reasoning? So to fix our gameplay problems, we have to look for someone who is ready to sacrifice his precious life time and be our slave and only spam 2 the whole game so we can enjoy the game? Is this what you understand under coop gameplay? If anything, you should be thankful someone plays trinity and supports you. But you should NOT have to rely on someone playing a certain character ever, in order to enjoy gameplay.

1 hour ago, Tsardova said:

EO only trivialized energy economy, not activate it. Again, people have voiced that they didn't need EO to get by high level content.

  Yeah EO totally trivialized it while pizzas and EV totally didn't or what? Are you even serious? Yeah sure, people could get into high level content without EO. Guess what they used in the old days? Right, trinity. And i'm pretty sure the majority is glad about not NEEDING 1 ev trin for their endgame rounds anymore. The end of "1 ev trin being mandatory" meta was one of the best things that happened in warframe. If anything, pizzas and EV do trivialize energy economy...

Fact is, if we exclude zenurik, pretty much all energy income is RNG-based. I'm actually happy that the zenurik rework looks alright and not as bad as people thought.

Edited October 10, 2017 by IceColdHawk

[Tsardova]

Just now, IceColdHawk said:

Yeah and especially when leeches take away more energy than a single energy orb can give. Totally generous.

Since when is useless being fine? That is new to me. Since when do you actually notice .6 energy/second ? It must certainly not be warframe.

No. It's cause people learned that zenurik is not only the only worthful tree besides op naramon but that it also allowed a whole new different ways of playing. There is a reason there is a huge demand for it and players talking everywhere about it. And that reason is not "Hurr i still have trin and pizzas". Talking about trin...

 

Wtf is this for a reasoning? So to fix our gameplay problems, we have to look for someone who is ready to sacrifice his precious life time and be our slave and only spam 2 the whole game so we can enjoy the game? Is this what you understand under coop gameplay? If anything, you should be thankful someone plays trinity and supports you. But you should NOT have to rely on someone playing a certain character ever, in order to enjoy gameplay.

  Yeah EO totally trivialized it while pizzas and EV totally didn't or what? Are you even serious? Yeah sure, people could get into high level content without EO. Guess what they used in the old days? Right, trinity. And i'm pretty sure the majority is glad about not NEEDING 1 ev trin for their endgame rounds anymore. The end of "1 ev trin being mandatory" meta was one of the best things that happened in warframe. If anything, pizzas and EV do trivialize energy economy...

Fact is, if we exclude zenurik, pretty much all energy income is RNG-based. I'm actually happy that the zenurik rework looks alright and not as bad as people thought.

Leeches taking away energy faster than an orb can give you? Prioritize your targets more. Done.

Energy siphon is useless? Yet a lot of people still use them? There's a reason why efficiency build is so popular, it synergizes the trivial .6 energy per second to the minimized cost so well that you technically ups your max energy cap as well.

And to trin not being enslaved as an energy beacon, again as I've said, I've played with my cell mates enough times with a squad of energy hungry max strength build on power hungry frames and we did just fine without trin. Only mentioned trin cause it is one of her main selling point as a frame and in consideration to the other dude's "need" of an energy Regen.

"wtf is this reasoning?-" you ask, its a reasoning based on the other dude's "dire need" of energy source for him/ her to even acknowledge energy economy is a thing regardless. 

Otherwise there's plenty of trin mains in random recruitment chat willing to play the role and we always have a good time anyways. Communication isn't exactly that big a hurdle and nobody is forcing the other players to swap to trin per se. Look for a trin =\= forcing the other person to swap to a trin.

Lets see.... Pizza pretty much asks you to pitch in the extra resources and time to make the thing as cheesy as it is (no pun intended),  ev trivializes everything on my book but it ties to trin's concept to begin with and it needs the trin to have a specific build to maximize it so it's a pick your poison thing when you get down to it.

EO? Get a quest line done, "wait" for 2 minutes or so and ya pre much don't need to worry bout energy economy regardless of playstyle / environment and applies on all frames.

Yeah, it trivializes energy economy waaay more than the other options.

Point being, Energy economy as is on starchart missions are more than manageable without EO and/ or pizzas/ trins on solo environment.

As for PoE content,  we don't even know the definite mob density for solo play, the map region to hostile mob scaling, etc yet either. How can we assume it'll be a clusterfudge to the point where innate energy Regen is so necessary from the get go? That said, on my book, hold the phone before saying energy Regen is a necessity in the PoE playground. Once we get more details on the update then we'll see if it's really a necessity or not.

Edited October 10, 2017 by Tsardova

[Kinetos]

another topic where "no energy regen" and "literally infinite energy" are the only options anyone can see. Wait, is this another one? Or did I say this already earlier in this thread. Idk. Idc. There is a value of energy regen that is not zero and yet won't allow infinite power spam. Someone figure out what that value is, and the argument can be done.

and we already have "literally infinite energy" so if you are against energy regen because "literally infinite energy" you should be against pads and EV.

[Sebastianx]

We need a tiny amount to keep us going, not to let us spam skills 24/7 non-stop button mashing, but to let us use them every few seconds, so maybe a 0.5 or 1/s regen would be nice.