Hitscan weapons not functional after 300m

[FaintingHope]

[Disclaimer: While I have encountered this issue only in Plains of Eidolon, due to the large open world terrain, it is possible that the issue is global. I cannot confirm this due to being unable to test in standard maps.]

 

Issue:

In testing with hitscan weapons (Vectis Prime, Vaykor Marelok, Soma Prime, and Opticor), I have determined that they experience unusual and unexpected behavior past 300m that results in the weapons being unusable.

Summary:

When firing at distances from 0m (Warframe) to 300m, the weapon attack behaves as expected; the attack is aimed where your target reticle is pointing, hitting the object or entity being aimed at).

When firing at distances greater than 300m, the weapon attack behaves unusually and unexpectedly; the attack is no longer aimed where your target reticle is pointing, and will not hit the object or entity being aimed at. In testing, it appears that when aiming at a target (entity or terrain) more than 300m away, the attack appears to be targeted in the compass direction you are aiming, but directed at the skybox instead of where your reticle is pointing. This is most noticeable on the Opticor and must be observed by a third party (squad-mates) since it will appear to be aimed correctly for the user.

Impact:

Speaking from personal experience, and that of my regular squad-mates, our typical encounters in Plains of Eidolon feature firefights between 40m and 180m. Additionally, I have noticed that entities (Grineer, Eidolons) will not graphically render beyond 400m. (I'm unsure if this is a client setting, but I typically use the highest settings)

In other content, due to the terrain generation, this should be a non-issue as there will be very few, if any, areas that allow 300m of direct line of sight.

This issue will impact any players using hitscan weapons that attempt to engage at long distance combat (sniping, mountainside to mountainside firefights, anti-air defense), deliver indirect fire (unable to actually see graphically rendered entity, but seen by a squad-mate who directs your fire) at known turret locations or marked/way-pointed entities.

Other Notes:

I feel it may also be relevant to disclose that this issue does NOT appear to affect projectile-based weapons. I have confirmed hitting an Eidolon Teralyst at 749m using a Ballistica Prime. I am unsure if projectile-based weapons also suffer from a capped range distance, but if so, it appears to greatly exceed that of hitscan weapons.

This issue was first noticed in 22.0.2.

Tested weapons that are affected (Date Tested (MM/DD/YYYY) - Version):

• Vaykor Marelok (10/18/2017 - 22.0.6.1)
• Soma Prime (10/18/2017 - 22.0.6.1)
• Opticor (10/18/2017 - 22.0.6.1)
• Lex Prime (10/18/2017 - 22.0.6.1)

 

Edited October 18, 2017 by FaintingHope
Updated to include list of known impacted weapons.

[FaintingHope]

Update: Hotfix 22.0.6.1

I have retested with originally tested hitscan weapons (Vectis Prime, Vaykor Marelok, Soma Prime, and Opticor) that were known to be impacted by this issue. (Please note this list is not all encompassing; I have not tested every hitscan weapon)

The Vectis Prime is no longer affected. (May have been inadvertently fixed or was improperly tested)

Edited October 18, 2017 by FaintingHope
Grammar.

[FaintingHope]

 

Photos of issue:

Testing cases, showcasing Lex Prime and Opticor vs Eidolon Teralyst and Eidolon Lure. Note the lack of any damage numbers, even 0's.

Spoiler

 

Example of redirection issue; Screenshotting player is 20m in front of an Eidolon Lure, standing between it and me while I aim/fire directly at it. The beam, if accurate, should be drastically lower.

Spoiler

 

[[DE]Saske]

Hey FaintingHope, this change was intentional, you can read more about it in the Update 22 Patch Notes:

Weapon Fall-Off Damage Changes:

One of Warframe’s biggest appeals is the diverse selection of weaponry. Even within the subclasses of rifles and pistols, there is huge variety to be found, such as the distinction between projectile weapons (firing physical projectiles which move through space, like the Boltor) and hitscan weapons (firing draws an imaginary line between the gun and the point aimed at, doing damage instantly to whatever it hits, like the Soma). For obvious reasons, hitscans are very effective at long distances - this has never been an issue with Warframe’s tileset-based gameplay, but as we shot enemies from a kilometer away in the plains with our pistols, we knew something had to be done.
 
With the release of Plains of Eidolon, most weapons will have a form of damage falloff added, to reduce their effectiveness at extremely long distances. But don’t panic! This damage falloff will only be noticeable at extreme ranges (greater than 300m). Across all of our current tilesets, we were unable to find an unobstructed line of sight longer than 300m, so that is the point at which damage falloff will start.

Based on our assessment of all existing procedural tiles we’re extra confident that our current tileset-based gameplay will be largely unaffected. It is also worth noting that snipers will be able to fire 600m without experiencing falloff, to give them more of a purpose in this wide open terrain where long range weapons should thrive.

[FaintingHope]

Hi @[DE]Saske, thank you for your reply!

I appreciate you linking the patch notes for when the change occurred. Will you please provide additional clarification regarding the mechanics of the change?

The patch notes appeared to imply that weapon damage fall-off would result in a damage reduction (weapons deal less damage relative to distance; the farther away the target, the less damage the weapon will deal) when used to attack targets beyond the 300m threshold. In game-play testing, it appears to be a complete negation where the damage is not registered at all and may as well not have been fired. Based on the language in the patch notes, I'm unsure if what I've encountered is a mechanic working as intended or a bug related to damage fall-off implementation.

If you are able to confirm for me if the mechanic is working as intended, my next step will be to suggest a change in the appropriate forum section that it be changed to a damage reduction at range instead of damage negation.

Thank you and the entire Warframe team for everything you guys/girls do and the time you all dedicate to building the best game I've ever had the privilege of playing. The level of customization, graphics, active and continued development, community responsiveness, and openness is unrivaled in the industry.

Regards,
FaintingHope

Edited October 19, 2017 by FaintingHope
Grammar, Thought Clarification, Deserved Thanks.

[Nyaa314]

6 hours ago, [DE]Saske said:

where long range weapons should thrive

Is Opticor a short range weapon then?

[Caelward]

@[DE]Saske

It's nice of you to quote the relevant post, but do note that it doesn't actually say that weapons cease functioning after 300M. It just says " This damage falloff will only be noticeable at extreme ranges (greater than 300m). "

I mean. You aren't wrong. Ceasing to have any effect what so ever is pretty darn noticable.

Just noting it might be worth having the patch notes be a bit more accurate. "Doesn't work at all" is not the same as "Reduced Effectiveness".

[BrazilianJoe]

The dev workshop notes makes it pretty clear that there would be a damage falloff to 50%, not stop working. 

 

[motorfirebox]

12 hours ago, [DE]Saske said:

Hey FaintingHope, this change was intentional, you can read more about it in the Update 22 Patch Notes:

Weapon Fall-Off Damage Changes:

One of Warframe’s biggest appeals is the diverse selection of weaponry. Even within the subclasses of rifles and pistols, there is huge variety to be found, such as the distinction between projectile weapons (firing physical projectiles which move through space, like the Boltor) and hitscan weapons (firing draws an imaginary line between the gun and the point aimed at, doing damage instantly to whatever it hits, like the Soma). For obvious reasons, hitscans are very effective at long distances - this has never been an issue with Warframe’s tileset-based gameplay, but as we shot enemies from a kilometer away in the plains with our pistols, we knew something had to be done.
 
With the release of Plains of Eidolon, most weapons will have a form of damage falloff added, to reduce their effectiveness at extremely long distances. But don’t panic! This damage falloff will only be noticeable at extreme ranges (greater than 300m). Across all of our current tilesets, we were unable to find an unobstructed line of sight longer than 300m, so that is the point at which damage falloff will start.

Based on our assessment of all existing procedural tiles we’re extra confident that our current tileset-based gameplay will be largely unaffected. It is also worth noting that snipers will be able to fire 600m without experiencing falloff, to give them more of a purpose in this wide open terrain where long range weapons should thrive.

The behavior cited in the patch notes doesn't at all match the behavior in game. This is either a bug or some REALLY inaccurate patch notes.

[Amazerath]

A friend told me yesterday he was having some trouble with his Lenz. He said that when shooting at distant targets (mostly grineer ships) sometimes the arrows would just follow a straight path ignoring gravity. I also experienced this exact same problem when using the Drakgoon but I assumed it was just a weird interaction with Mag's Magnetize power. Maybe it wasn't.

We both noticed this when shooting at distant targets on the Plains. I also can't confirm if it happens in normal nodes.

[Yargami]

3 hours ago, BrazilianJoe said:

The dev workshop notes makes it pretty clear that there would be a damage falloff to 50%, not stop working.

   Technically I think the 50% number was only listed for snipers, but it definitely made it sound like other weapons would still deal some damage from further than 300m.

[BrazilianJoe]

the 50% falloff limit is a standard limit to falloff since it was introduced in shotguns. I haven`t caught any kind of communication from devs that it would be different for PoE.

[(PSN)vinster]

Also can someone on PC confirm if negative Flight Speed rivens affect hitscan rifles now?  (I know they have all along affected the falloff distance for hitscan shotguns).

Example, with -50% Flight Speed riven with Soma, does the fall off now happen at 150m instead of 300m?  Thanks.

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

Damage fall-off and damage negation are two different concepts.

Only noticable at over 300 m also hints that fall-off will not occur before 300m, after which damage will lower based on distance.... Not that you will deal 0 damage at 301 meters.

Edited October 19, 2017 by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra

[xRufus7x]

10 hours ago, Nyaa314 said:

Is Opticor a short range weapon then?

Mid range which before POE was long range in the game.

[Noir_CZ]

Sniper rifles are useless too. The max distance 600m can be used only when playing in group as for solo person enemies just usually down spawn on distances more than 200m, especially for "quest" areas.

[FaintingHope]

I noticed the "[Not a Bug]" tag was removed from the post name, but it appears we are still waiting on confirmation on whether or not this is intended.

I was unaware of the 50% reduction notes in the dev workshop, but that would certainly seem to imply that negation was not intended.

On a side note, since this bug deals with delivering fire to entities at long range, have any of you found a solution to only being shown entities within 400m? I've found that without a "spotter" to mark the target or direct fire, it's impossible to know what you are hitting past 400m.