I dont get what this update is anymore....

[racooperii]

6 minutes ago, fatpig84 said:

Well its the truth. If you want farm fast, quickly increase MR XD
Drop everything and build whatever thrash you can even if you hate it, get an exp booster if you need.
Always look at an ROI perspective.

The difference between MR12 and MR20 earnings is pretty significant over time.
For MR24 you are pretty much going to sell 1 syndicate mod a day (25k exp). 2 if you diligently do the syndicate missions. 
Which is an easy 20p to 30p daily. And I haven't talk about handing in the syndicate emblems yet.
80p won't matter if you are earning 100+ plat a week.

In my case I was lucky for being a founder since I pretty much always max out my MR tier before the next content drop.
So it is never hard for me to keep at max MR. For the rest, a little investment goes a long way.

I'm sorry but, What?

You're literally telling people to Ignore Content they can work on Concurrently with gaining Affinity/MR, Mods, Frames and Resources. That's beyond ridiculous, might as well not bother with leveling Weapons until you're MR 20-24 since you don't get as much Capacity at MR8. The idea is to work on Standing WHILE you do other things, and then by the time you can earn a lot of Standing all at once you can then just buy the Mods/Weapons whatever you want without having to dedicate specifically to grinding it once it's relevant to you.

Just, wow man.

[Lisztomaniac]

48 minutes ago, FierceRadiance said:

... 

first of all yes, my grammar sucked never took pride in it, this is not my native lenguage, but i must say my grammar sucks even in my lenguage, second of all, i dont recall directly insulting you, being rude maybe but, i think i never actually insulted you directly or anything, apologies if i did.

however it annoyes me the condescending nature of your post, i might be rude directly, but being condescending its a more insulting more subtle way to be rude, proved by how your response its nothing but a condescending text looking down on my grammar and talking about how i value only my own opinion , then you just proceed to agree with me on the actual point of my post only to ask for a solution to a problem that im not suposed to fix (because you seem to think players should not only pay for the game but actually fix it for the developers), im a player, this is a feedback forum, im giving negative feedback because the game deserves negative feedback, youre contributing nothing with your well structurated condescending post, youre agreeing that we have a reason to complain, that there is a growing problem, and your solution is to come to the forums to try and shut people up that are actually trying to voice their concerns on a problem that COULD sink the game in the long run.

sure i might have not offered solutions, im not an ecconomist i dont do market studies for plat expenses, im sure there is someone doing that , im a player that has been spending money on this game, that is saying that as the time has gone by, the game its becoming less and less deserving of the money that at least a customer like me can put into the game, i might not be offering my solutions, but in a way trying to get this to DE ears pleasant or not, its my grain of salt, you comming to the forums aware of a problem, agreeing that such problem exist, not proposing a solution yourself and then in a condescending manner demand that the players who complain only do so if they have one themselves, its annoying to say the least, youre proposing a mentality of "its ok if the company its @(*()$ us up, so as long as the playerbase has no solution and a way to force the developers to implement it"

 

also i hardly doubt DE is sunking in debts considering they dont even have local servers for PoE (but i cant know that)

also i didnt say that they shouldnt generat revenue this way, the system its not wrong its how they are taking a system and abusing it.

next time  spend more time thinking about the contents of your post instead of how it looks and structurates, and next time try to take the rest of the world and the needs of diferent people in the playerbase into consideration when you come with  this selfish "let the company F*** them over if they dont have the means to a solution" mentality, it just reduces your post to a selfish response about how people should shut the F*** up because youre doing fine and everyone outside your bubble can suck it up, and i might be rude and suck at grammar, but im not an ignorant and self centered jerk, the game going greed over fun, its not good for the playerbase and not good for the company on the long run (good for chinese investors in the short run).

hopefully my S#&$ty grammar and my poor structuration dont get in the way and you can understand the point.

Edited October 26, 2017 by Lisztomaniac

[FierceRadiance]

Listomaniac.....some of your criticisms of my post are valid.

Referring to my post which began this disagreement (because I have posted elsewhere here) I didn't pose any solutions. All I intended to do was point out how complaining about RNG while not proposing a solution is like trying to teach a pig to sing: it wastes your time and annoys the pig. Or, in this case, it wastes readers' time, and accomplishes nothing except the venting of your spleen. In this, I believe we are alike, as you also provided no solutions, and merely sought to express your opinion. I agree with you that one of the purposes of the forums is to present to the devs opinions both positive and negative, and we both used them for this purpose.

Regarding your posting in English while it isn't your native tongue, I find myself ashamed and embarrassed. I've tried to learn a language other than English and fared poorly in the attempt. Your English is far better than my second language. With that knowledge in mind, I find my comments to you insulting and boorish. I sincerely apologize to you for them.

Regarding my being condescending, you're absolutely right, and such was my intent. Your comments portray you as arrogant, and uninterested in those who disagree with you, whom you appear to see as beneath you. This does not make you look good, and as you caught me on a bad day, I responded in kind to the arrogance I perceived in your comments. This does not excuse my rudeness, but merely explains why I chose to reply in a vein similar to yours. If you see your comments as arrogant, then I will admit to mine being condescending. If you don't see them that way, then unfortunately I was right, and you deserved what you got.

I also have spent a great deal of money on this game, have also watched it slowly deteriorate into what some have begun calling PTW, and have also seen the handwriting on the wall of it's future, just as you have. While I don't believe the game actually is Pay-to-Win, I believe it's no longer honest to say that you can get everything in the game through grind. Grind has become so unreasonable as to be essentially impossible in any kind of functional time-frame. I also am frustrated at how a game that was so devoted to it's players has changed over the last year and a half, and has begun the downhill slide that seems to be the fate of all PW games. So again, in that you and I are on the same page.

Whether or not DE/PW is abusing the RNG system in your opinion or mine is frankly irrelevant. We cannot sit here and bemoan how the devs have lost touch with their player base, and then pretend that complaining here will have any effect on their decision-making. I'm sorry, I simply don't believe that's the case anymore. This also informed my disregard for you simply expressing an opinion without offering any solutions; without a better way, I'm certain DE will continue on the path it's on, which unfortunately includes largely ignoring player negativity on the forums. I wish that weren't the case, but I believe it is.

Again, I apologize for insulting your command of English, I again point out that we are IMHO largely in agreement about the problem, but disagree about whether merely being publicly unhappy about it amounts to anything.

[Lisztomaniac]

8 minutes ago, FierceRadiance said:

...

yeah i guess youre right, we are just victims of the frustration the downfall of a beloved game brings, and sure lol i agree that i can voice my opinion rather hastily and poorly expressed, at the end youre right, DE will continue as they have doing wtv they want, i guess theres only left to play whats left of the game.

 

apologies accepted btw, not like they are a lie im just not a grammar person, as my post implies im an impatient person, and well, the details cost time.

Edited October 26, 2017 by Lisztomaniac

[KennBone]

oh common stop talking like " u word " its the totally.. when its not.  most of us really enjoy the new things ( ofc they can tweak some aspects , but hey i have fun with all game in general)

[Lisztomaniac]

13 minutes ago, davej83 said:

oh common stop talking like " u word " its the totally.. when its not.  most of us really enjoy the new things ( ofc they can tweak some aspects , but hey i have fun with all game in general)

as i see it the problem is not the new things, i was actually looking forward to a more seamless combat with operator+WF and fishing for hours, the new things are cool and fun  in their own, but they by no means warrant being forced upon all the playerbase in order to progress at all in PoE.

the simple nature of fishing being an obligation rather than a choice, instantly drained the fun from it, the problem is not that the content on the expansion isnt good, it is good, but its lacking, it has at most 3 hours of new content, and then it turns into endless grind, it just feels like there was an expansion planned, with some new side activities included, but on release day it feels like they took all the content out and just left the side activities in there as the main point of the expansion, these new side activities didnt have to be a chore, nor had to be a grind, fishing could be to boast about that 45kg fish you found and to compete with friends or something, but instead we are forced to fish for virtually anything that has to do with the expansion. we have a huge beatifull open map now, to fish in and grind the same boss 3 times per night.

 

this is like wow advertising an expansion for a whole year and in release day the expansion its a new way to farm reputation with a faction, so you can buy lvl 1-20 items.

Edited October 26, 2017 by Lisztomaniac

[KennBone]

2 minutes ago, Lisztomaniac said:

as i see it the problem is not the new things, i was actually looking forward to a more seamless combat with operator+WF and fishing for hours, the new things are cool and fun  in their own, but they by no means warrant being forced upon all the playerbase in order to progress at all in PoE.

the simple nature of fishing being an obligation rather than a choice, instantly drained the fun from it, the problem is not that the content on the expansion isnt good, it is good, but its lacking, it has at most 3 hours of new content, and then it turns into endless grind, it just feels like there was an expansion planned, with some new side activities included, but on release day it feels like they took all the content out and just left the side activities in there as the main point of the expansion, these new side activities didnt have to be a chore, nor had to be a grind, fishing could be to boast about that 45kg fish you found and to compete with friends or something, but instead we are forced to fish for virtually anything that has to do with the expansion.

 

this is like wow advertising an expansion for a whole year and in release day the expansion its a new way to farm reputation with a faction, so you can buy lvl 1-20 items.

ofc man u rigth, i dont like needed to farm that much too it leaves me with no time for do others things... just let them some time as u see atm they still fixing alot of things ( like lower the resources for many items, and kick bugs out  ty god ) xD

 

[(PSN)Onder6099]

6 hours ago, davej83 said:

ofc man u rigth, i dont like needed to farm that much too it leaves me with no time for do others things... just let them some time as u see atm they still fixing alot of things ( like lower the resources for many items, and kick bugs out  ty god ) xD

 

While fixing bugs is great, lowering the costs is good only for short period and will satisfy only shortsighted crybabies which want everything in Day 1, unfortunately probably these same  players will, after the month or so, start the next wave of blaming DE about poor design etc. and start screaming for new content absolutely ignoring the fact that it's their fault because DE listen to them and made changes now.

[Ninjamander]

43 minutes ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

While fixing bugs is great, lowering the costs is good only for short period and will satisfy only shortsighted crybabies which want everything in Day 1, unfortunately probably these same  players will, after the month or so, start the next wave of blaming DE about poor design etc. and start screaming for new content absolutely ignoring the fact that it's their fault because DE listen to them and made changes now.

THIS!

 

Pretty much sum many people from the forum actually (mostly veteran and fellow founder sadly). Constantly crying to DE how easy warframe is and how much we need new content while neglecting how hard it is for new comers who don't have everything/veteran and just tell them to get good, bootlick DE decision no matter what or say you need to work for it or <get gud>. DE seem to listen to those people sadly.

Indirectly, this plain update force veteran/elitism to be in the same position of those newbies, which is great thing if you think more deeply about it!....but now, those same players ow scream buff and complain the exact same way as the newbie did but this time DE seem to listen to them and change accordingly to them...

Of course, I am not saying everything they are saying is wrong, they have the experience and knowledge of the game and can often provide amazing feedback/bug fix, but they should not constantly overshadow the opinion of newcomer/frustrated people constantly, they are part of this community too and the future of it as well.

I seriously love warframe and I want the game lifetime to last as long as possible, but it can be hard to balance thing out, you can't make everyone happy ultimately...if only DE could see this sometime...

tl -dr version: Newby/complainer opinion are important too, not only the one from veteran/elitist, the game balance should be the line between them and should make most people, newcomer and veteran alike happy

[Volinus7]

17 hours ago, ProfessorLitmus said:

hey  Volinus7 can you be a dude and post those income reports so FierceRadiance can see DE isn't some small dev that needs as much money as it can get so they can eat and instead are a money funnel for a company that failed at selling chicken to the Chinese?

Warframe was in grey zone but after the transition it stepped into full animal farm.

"Monetization ruined Warframe" while it's backed with what happened in these two years it's not 100% of the causes, most of the players have to be susceptible to skinner box and social engineering. 

It's nature takes its course, normal distribution at its work. DE like those kinds of players who can be easily conditioned without realizing that they're being conditioned. 

Leyou stopped their poultry business because it's easier to cultivate chicken in Warframe.

Edited October 27, 2017 by Volinus7

[Fallen_Echo]

12 hours ago, (Xbox One)CannyJack said:

I'll get me coat.

Dat Velen accent.

[StinkyPygmy]

On 10/25/2017 at 9:33 PM, Fallen_Echo said:

The problem is not just the bugs, but the actual update vs what was advertised.

@Cortanis says well whats the main problem here. The bait and switch is real.

I almost feel like watching a burger commercial with the knoweledge that our town has the most shady burger business around and they cant even make a Mcdonalds level burger right.

 

There is literally no bait and switch tactics going on.

Where are you even getting these ideas? POE has its issues but its not quite on that level.

[Fallen_Echo]

11 hours ago, FierceRadiance said:

But until you or I or somebody else comes up with a better way to make money from an FTP game, RNG isn't going away.

There were many platinum sink suggestion made in this year but all of them got ignored.

1. buyable nitain
2. buyable argon
3. potato bundles
4. an even higher level incubator system what stops the degradion completely
5. quest weapons
6. every item buyable from the market (including alert and quest only [the latter is unlocked when the quest is completed])
7. Weapon sound packs 
8. Skill effects
9. Squad boosters
10. Buyable kavats and kubrows

Just some ideas what im sure people would spend cash on.

[Fallen_Echo]

1 minute ago, StinkyPygmy said:

There is literally no bait and switch tactics going on.

Where are you even getting these ideas? POE has its issues but its not quite on that level.

Really, almost everything what i heard from what we get in this update are either false, showed behind grindwalls or useless.

[W3zeer]

8 hours ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

While fixing bugs is great, lowering the costs is good only for short period and will satisfy only shortsighted crybabies which want everything in Day 1, unfortunately probably these same  players will, after the month or so, start the next wave of blaming DE about poor design etc. and start screaming for new content absolutely ignoring the fact that it's their fault because DE listen to them and made changes now.

Well I hate to tell you, but stretching the aquisition of a few new things out as far as possible through grind is not actual content. To me it seems DE starts and abondond projects far to frequently and in that process forget to give us ACTUAL new content. All "quests" for the newer frames seem to be "do 3 times the same thing (or more in case of Index) and then have some sort of end fight. and then go and grind the parts for days because the quest does not award anything and would be far to short to do so". What did we really get as new stuff with poe? 5 missions that are copies of existing missions, fishing and mining. The operator changes are far less impactful that we are led to believe it's mostly just less QoL because now you have to pull him out every 30 seconds and jump into your bubble to get your energy regen. I don't know id DEs team is just too small, but I find it strange that even the largest updates only have enough content for a few hours if they wouldn't be stretched out by 2% drop chances. So i totally understand ppl that want actual new content. because just having another frame for which you have to grind the same old missions for days or weeks is not new content. And with PoE, I felt like I've seen everything there after 2 days at max. And since then it's just grinding against really, really bad RNG and bad rewards. I didn't expect too much from this addon, but still got disappointed. It feels so rushed and incomplete. There's no variation, every bounty is exactly the same and all the features that were promised, like skywing, are impletemted in a way that they're frustating and useless. Even the great Eidolon fight is disappointing. It's just boring to walk behind a thing that wont even recognize your presence. And it's attack pattern is so easily to predict, it does not pose even a remote threat.

[StinkyPygmy]

6 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Really, almost everything what i heard from what we get in this update are either false, showed behind grindwalls or useless.

Grindwalls: So basically any F2P game.

Useless: That's subjective.

Name some things that DE blatantly switched out in this update.

[racooperii]

9 hours ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

While fixing bugs is great, lowering the costs is good only for short period and will satisfy only shortsighted crybabies which want everything in Day 1, unfortunately probably these same  players will, after the month or so, start the next wave of blaming DE about poor design etc. and start screaming for new content absolutely ignoring the fact that it's their fault because DE listen to them and made changes now.

I love reading these posts that put the blame on the Players, not the people who are actually in charge of Designing/Testing/Releasing this content.

It's also not about getting everything Day 1, its that it takes 400 Days of a dedicated Grind at about 2 hours every day for 800 hours to unlock the whole thing, or 160 hours for one Focus School. And this is a Dedicated Do Nothing Else but Grind time line. The majority of the player base will be LUCKY to max ONE node in the same amount of time as a hardcore grinder does one School. The discrepancy between the two is unbelievable, especially since they keep shoving more Operator Content our way. So casual players are screwed because it would take years, literal years of play, to put a dent into this and Vets get screwed cause all their previous effort was rendered useless and now have to spend hours a day doing ONE THING to make up the discrepancy.

Or how a Tier 5 Bounties take as long as 20 minutes in Survival and gives less than 10% of the rewards for your effort. So casual players get screwed, cause they can accomplish so much more on the Starmap than in Poe, and Vets get screwed cause most of the rewards are things that are easy to acquire everywhere else. The only things of any real distinction is Gara BP's and Lenses, the stances and set Mods aren't all that great in comparison to other mods that already exist. So once people get the couple of things they want from the Bounties, I'm sure it'll be left abandoned in a month or two while people continue to work in the star chart.

Or how Skywing is the worst incarnation of Arkwing to boot. If I was to compare it to mounts in any other game, Single player, MMO, P2P, it is hands down the worst mount design ever made. Charges for every time you get on it, and you can get off it as easy as pressing Melee by accident or a stray Dismounting Shot(Which this, this right here is just plain dumb. It ignores all the work people have put into their Arkwings entirely for some cheap gimmick, so again New players get screwed by having to blow resources on a terrible mount and Vets get screwed by not being able to actually utilize something they put work into.).

All around this update isn't for anyone, it just is. Has some nice ideas with mixed execution ranging from good(I happen to enjoy fishing) to awful(Skywing).

Here's a final thought, who else do you blame for bad design besides the Developer. They wrote the code, they designed the concepts, and they released it to the public, but yet I see this White-Knight attitude where DE is totally blameless and the players are the bad guys. 

[Fallen_Echo]

2 hours ago, StinkyPygmy said:

Name some things that DE blatantly switched out in this update.

Currently i only remember 2, the size of the map what was later corrected and the arcane rework what was too later corrected as there womt be an arcane rework.

[StinkyPygmy]

23 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Currently i only remember 2, the size of the map what was later corrected and the arcane rework what was too later corrected as there womt be an arcane rework.

The size of the map was later clarified due to Steve's wording. It wasn't bait and switch, it was a misunderstanding. It was corrected almost immediately after Tennocon. As for the arcane rework, that's a tenuous example at best. We don't even know one won't be coming at a later date, nor is it inconceivable for DE to change their mind. It wasn't even stated there was 100% going to be an arcane rework. 

None of those things are grounds for "PoE was a bait and switch tactic". If they were then practically any media could be considered as "bait and switch" tactics.

[(PSN)Onder6099]

Dear @W3zeer and @racooperii you are both crying on wrong grave.

[racooperii]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

Dear @W3zeer and @racooperii you are both crying on wrong grave.

This is the best reponse you can come up with? This isnt even a point, its barely a statement.

if you're not going to engage in a discussion and provide evidence for why you think your claims are right, dont bother joining in.

[DEADSHOT456]

On 10/25/2017 at 8:15 PM, xXDeadsinxX said:

And I’ll repeat, this is DE’s first time adding this kind of content into Warframe. They will eventually fix and changes things, it’s not like everything is going to be permanent. They will likely change a lot of things in PoE in the very near future.

The problem is that it never does change. All this time DE kept saying they would do something to reduce grind and then PoE drops and the talk about reducing grind seems like a joke at this point.

Just because it was DE's first attempt doesn't mean it had to include rewards like 4000 credits in a 20 - 30 minute Level 50-60 mission. That should not have been the case in the first place.

Another example, why does enemies not drop Plains resources in the plains? I am sorry, but I just can not get my head around the fact that the grineer are carrying ferrite and alloy plates instead of mining plains' resources while camping in the plains.

There is so many things wrong with PoE and no, I am not talking about bugs or systems that are new like fishing and all. I am talking about aspects that are already in the game like rewards and resources and GRIND.

[BlackCoMerc]

11 minutes ago, DEADSHOT456 said:

The problem is that it never does change. All this time DE kept saying they would do something to reduce grind and then PoE drops and the talk about reducing grind seems like a joke at this point.

Just because it was DE's first attempt doesn't mean it had to include rewards like 4000 credits in a 20 - 30 minute Level 50-60 mission. That should not have been the case in the first place.

Another example, why does enemies not drop Plains resources in the plains? I am sorry, but I just can not get my head around the fact that the grineer are carrying ferrite and alloy plates instead of mining plains' resources while camping in the plains.

There is so many things wrong with PoE and no, I am not talking about bugs or systems that are new like fishing and all. I am talking about aspects that are already in the game like rewards and resources and GRIND.

It's not up to DE anymore.

Two years ago they were taken over. We all know by whom. We all know where the money comes from.

Go back about two years. That's about when the grind began to go from tough but reasonable to ridiculous. And that trend is worsening.

That influence will kill this game in Western markets if DE lacks the influence to reign it in. Ask Firefall players about that. Ask Black Desert players how it's faring in Western markets.

Maybe Eastern markets feature a larger subset of addiction prone players. Or a smaller subset of good competing games. Or both. I don't know.

But I do know that what works there, is a receipt for long term failure here.

[(PSN)Onder6099]

22 minutes ago, racooperii said:

This is the best reponse you can come up with? This isnt even a point, its barely a statement.

if you're not going to engage in a discussion and provide evidence for why you think your claims are right, dont bother joining in.

U call whole this monotonous Topic, where players posting again and again how clever they are and only they know exactly what will be the best for the game, calling players which knows how much time and effort cost to made PoE a White knights, a Discussion?

[racooperii]

Just now, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

U call whole this monotonous Topic, where players posting again and again how clever they are and only they know exactly what will be the best for the game, calling players which knows how much time and effort cost to made PoE a White knights, a Discussion?

Again, this is not a point.

How about you actually try to counter any of the criticism in this thread instead of trying to pull an ad-hominin on the people delivering the criticism. Knowing how much time and effort went into something, does not automatically make that thing beyond reproach, which is what you're suggesting even mentioning. Your only points so far is that, any criticism regardless of validity is just being a cry baby, and that the Time and Effort DE put into this update automatically makes it beyond criticism.

So yes, this IS a discussion about what people feel is lacking or wrong with the update. It being in the FEEDBACK Thread should have clued you in that not everyone is going to automatically give DE a pass just because they put Time and Effort into something, and instead are going to judge the finished product on it's design principles. I outlined my grievances and why I feel this update is lacking/bad, to which you have been unable to refute or counter any of them and continue with ad-hominin(Cry babes and snide remarks about how Clever people are...so see through it's sad) or try to bait and switch like with this last post.

None of these comments you've made has altered the discussion, they have not refuted any on the criticism and have not proven you to Not-Be a DE-White Knight. You are a white knight because you are ignoring Criticism(Regardless of it's validity), are using weak logical fallacies to try to make an emotional argument of why people are being Cry-babies and not recognizing the efforts of DE, and seem to think having a topic discussing the problems with the update is "Monotonous" while not adding anything to the Discussion in the process.

So again, this Topic is a Discussion with Criticisms about the Update. If you would like to actually provide a real counter point without devolving into ad-hominin again, by all means go ahead, it would be beneficial to the Topic to have someone bring up valid points about why the Update Succeeds(Which calling people cry babies and pointing out DE put time and effort into something is Not a valid point.)