Conclave always empty... Whats is missing?

[aligatorno]

11 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Yamanishi1 said:

Maybe "avoidable" is not the right word but the rewards are so poor that don't make you even think in spend time on that mode... I confess that there is a lot of alerts with mission modes that I simply hate, but I complete them because I need the loot. Why not do the same in conclave? Some alerts would be great just to get a more different experience sometimes and, if you really don't like the mode, simply ignor the alert.

You weren't here for the PvP Events it seems. I can assure you, plenty of people were upset about DE forcing exclusive content to Conclave. It was a mess, experienced people dominated, ping and lag were teleporting people, afkers for easy points were all over the place. 

If the people were enraged by cosmetics alone, think how would they react if actual content was locked behind something like that. The forums would burn down most likely. Conclave is dead, conclave is not something that most players of Warframe want, making it a requirement makes no sense business wise. 

Edited November 12, 2017 by aligatorno

[AlphaPHENIX]

Il y a 12 heures, Tsukinoki a dit :

So basically you're saying:
"Hey lets put some exclusive weapons (or gods forbid) a warframe that you are forced to grind away at PvP at no matter how much you dislike it!"
Which should be a hard no.

Conclave is a Syndicate, every other Syndicate has exclusive weapons but Conclave. Seem fair? No it doesn't.

Also I think you are forggeting that everything in warframe is tradable/giftable (except Broken mods, login rewards and regular warframes), that includes Syndicate weapons.

Edited November 13, 2017 by AlphaPHENIX

[TheKurtiStryke]

in my opinion, the TOP reason people avoid conclave is beacuse it's really annoying and boring, beacuse of bullet jump, remove it(and other movement like double jump) and i bet you, more player(myself included) will certainly play(start play)conclave more ofetn.

Don't know you, but when i play in cocnlcave, aiming and shoot other players is really unnerving while they are bullet jumping here and there

Edited November 12, 2017 by TheKurtiStryke

[(XBOX)Yamanishi1]

 

4 minutes ago, Etan-gK said:

*sigh* this thread again,

no, we don't want or need content locked behind a game-mode that was shoehorned in just to please an extremely small sub-set of the community

we've had events that had items locked behind conclave, nobody was happy, PvE players felt forced into a game-mode they didn't like and more experienced conclave players were unhappy about the influx of players who didn't know what they were doing.

couple those feeling with garbage ping/host advantage that conclave brings (especially with an influx of people who don't usually play the mode) and it just makes for a bad time had by all

So... My suggestion is let everybody happy! I'm not talking about exclusive important content or items there... Alerts with conclave matchs would be great! Something optional that really rewards you and could be separated by Conclave levels as Sindicate missions does to avoid the situation related to noobs against pros and vice-versa. Regarding ping/host advantage... This already exist in a dozen of other games, PvP players know that they need to deal with this.

[AlphaPHENIX]

il y a 6 minutes, Maqabir a dit :

Your weapons feel ineffective, your powers are all different, you move slow and your oppenents just swoop in and eviscerate you in a second. It's hard to shift gears from trying to find the best weapon and mod combinations to actually just getting good at aiming and dodging.

And that's the the thing with PvP in any game, Skill > Fancy Gear Stats (unleass there is pay to win ******** involved).

il y a 6 minutes, krc473 a dit :

I am curious as to how you would implement decent conclave stuff in a way we could not cheese it.

By making a proper Conclave update unlike Lunaro which more or less just added another mode? Oh and those dedicated servers don't feel like they are doing much, aside from decreasing lag (most of the time) I guess.

[Ghogiel]

15 minutes ago, AlphaPHENIX said:

And how do we fix this? By making DE notice that there is potential in the mode and it could use an update... Oh wait, that would require effort on the community's part. Sorry, I almost forgot how badly people were angry over friendly fire mode in nightmare missions just because it stopped them from using their Synoid Simulors, when all you needed was some better aim and a team that wouldn't troll you.

I'm not sure how you would update it to make it a competitor in the pvp 3rd person shooter genre. It has no footing against the even more saturated pvp market against some giant franchises or more modest gems. The game is already widely popular and has a large playerbase so that's a non issue. The issue for me is it's pretty bland. There are even deader games that have had a far superior pvp experience that haven't even been out for more than a year or 2. So it's pretty expected to be the way it is. I played it, didn't grab me as interesting, had issues, moved on.

Edited November 12, 2017 by Ghogiel

[krc473]

1 minute ago, AlphaPHENIX said:

By making a proper Conclave update unlike Lunaro which more or less just added another mode?

I do not think they can fix current conclave. Lunaro is the only conclave thing I play - you could play soccer with the ball (although, I think DE just broke that).

Conclave in its current state is not appealing to many people. Honestly, I would play it if they reversed everything and made it like it was in the beginning (that was at least fun). Everyone was OP and could basically one-shot everyone. Now, its just "balanced" and pointless. Given that frames have abilities that are non-functional (Ash + Bladestorm?) I just think it is a waste of time. Basically, without a complete rework of the current system, I would not go out and do conclave unless I had to. So, I think I agree with the "proper conclave update".

[MystMan]

Conclave reception is no different from Archwing and Trials: they are not success stories.
People in general did not like them or found them too frustrating and disconnected from the main game to bother.

Putting exclusive rewards won't help long-term, people will get the rewards and then never bother again.
And like Ghogiel mentioned above, there are countless better pvp games out there which are better fleshed out, because they were designed from the ground up with pvp in mind.

Warframe's conclave was designed as a side addition after the main game has existed for like 3 years already. Try designing pvp next to that without many balancing issues popping up, it was an inevitable miss.
 

[AlphaPHENIX]

il y a 17 minutes, TheKurtiStryke a dit :

in my opinion, the TOP reason people avoid conclave is beacuse it's really annoying and boring, beacuse of bullet jump, remove it(and other movement like double jump) and i bet you, more player(myself included) will certainly play(start play)conclave more ofetn.

Oh so you want just another generic PvP shooter...well there are plenty to choose from please go to those.

il y a 10 minutes, Ghogiel a dit :

There are even deader games that have had a far superior pvp experience that haven't even been out for more than a year or 2.

And this is because Warframe is still a PvE foccused game, but as we have seen with Plains of Eidolon, DE does want to innovate. Having both a great PvE and a great PvP mode certainly wouldn't hurt the game in a long run.

I never tried to say there won't be any backlash from people that despise PvP, as one of said people I should know this, but I gave Conclave a chance sence I wanted me some of it's cosmetics. I raged, I slowly got better, I got what I wanted, retired from Conclave, still go back sometimes and now I am a stronger player in both modes.

Edited November 12, 2017 by AlphaPHENIX

[(XBOX)Yamanishi1]

7 minutes ago, aligatorno said:

You weren't here for the PvP Events it seems. I can assure you, plenty of people were upset about DE forcing exclusive content to Conclave. It was a mess, experienced people dominated, ping and lag were teleporting people, afkers for easy points were all over the place. 

If the people were enraged by cosmetics alone, think how would they react if actual content was locked behind something like that. The forums would burn down most likely. Conclave is dead, conclave is not something that most players of Warframe want, making it a requirement makes no sense business wise. 

I'm here to play something that already exist... My intention with the post is how to make conclave an option instead of simply ignore that it exists. For me, rescue missions are completelly boring and, if you don't close your session, someone could simply "rush" the mission frustrating your stealth buff and loot routes but I still playing it when I need to unlock every nodes of a planet or there is an interesting loot on that specific mission... However, if DE simply supress this kind of mission, this is going to be a mistake... The mode was created and there are some people that likes this kind of mission! Is the same thing that was made with Conclave.

[Lion]

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)Yamanishi1 said:

-snip-

Absolutely not. Warframe is a PVE centered game, please do not lock PVE gear behind a PVP wall

Edited November 12, 2017 by Aveu

[StinkyPygmy]

The issue isn't that the content and rewards aren't good enough, the issue is conclave is horrible even after its latest iteration, has a massively steep learning curve, Peer to peer hosting, and a majority of the playerbase simply doesn't like it nor do they find it enjoyable.

If conclave actually improves and gets dedicated servers, maybe then we will see a shift. Until then PvE is what most people are here for.

Edited November 12, 2017 by StinkyPygmy

[aligatorno]

18 minutes ago, Ghogiel said:

I'm not sure how you would update it to make it a competitor in the pvp 3rd person shooter genre. It has no footing against the even more saturated pvp market against some giant franchises or more modest gems. The game is already widely popular and has a large playerbase so that's a non issue. The issue for me is it's pretty bland. There are even deader games that have had a far superior pvp experience that haven't even been out for more than a year or 2. So it's pretty expected to be the way it is. I played it, didn't grab me as interesting, had issues, moved on.

Indeed. There are plenty of examples of failing PvP shooters . Lawbreakers, Battleborne, Gigantic, Quake Champions, even DE's own The Amazing Eternals .which fortunately they had shut down before it became too big of a money sink, being the latest examples of dead games focused on PvP. 

The community showed again and again that they do not like nor want to play such a mode. Out of hundreds of thousands of players, barely any even touch the thing, even if it were a thing about discoverability, it wouldn't have brought such low participation numbers.

 

Edited November 12, 2017 by aligatorno

[(XBOX)Yamanishi1]

11 minutes ago, Ghogiel said:

I'm not sure how you would update it to make it a competitor in the pvp 3rd person shooter genre. It has no footing against the even more saturated pvp market against some giant franchises or more modest gems. The game is already widely popular and has a large playerbase so that's a non issue. The issue for me is it's pretty bland. There are even deader games that have had a far superior pvp experience that haven't even been out for more than a year or 2. So it's pretty expected to be the way it is. I played it, didn't grab me as interesting, had issues, moved on.

But you must agree that this is not good for DE... If they loose players because the PvP didn't receive the deserved attention, they are doing it wrong! I think that Conclave should be in discussion with the following topic: Is it a mode that our player base don't cares or is a so broken that nobody wants to play?

[AlphaPHENIX]

Il y a 11 heures, Aveu a dit :

Absolutely not. Warframe is a PVE centered game, please do not lock PVE gear behind a PVP wall.

This excuse is getting old, at least add a better reason.

Also cough regular Arcanes (as in ones from before PoE) are locked behind Trials (most call these Raids) cough Nobody is complaining about that cough Cause they are still tradable and even then you don't really need them cough

Edited November 13, 2017 by AlphaPHENIX

[Lion]

2 minutes ago, AlphaPHENIX said:

This excuse is getting old, at least add a better reason.

Also cough regular Arcanes (as in ones from before PoE) are locked behind Trials (most call these Raids) cough Nobody is complaining about that cough Cause they are still tradable and even then you don't need really them cough

Truth doesn't get old, it just exists. 

And have you been living under a rock? EVERYBODY complains about trials and the fact that they are the only way to get arcanes. 

Edited November 12, 2017 by Aveu

[Heckzu]

11 minutes ago, Ghogiel said:

I'm not sure how you would update it to make it a competitor in the pvp 3rd person shooter genre.

Conclave has no competition in its genre: high speed TPS shooter.

• S4 League is a decade old and very out of date
• GunZ the Duel's official servers were shut down years ago
• GunZ 2 flopped due to poor network infrastructure as well as choices made by the devs
• Double Action: Boogaloo is pretty much the only competitor, but lacks a sense of progression and has outdated graphics

But Conclave isn't advertised at all and isn't viable as a standalone mode since gear obtainment is tied to PvE.

[(XBOX)Yamanishi1]

2 minutes ago, Aveu said:

Truth doesn't get old, it just exists. 

And have you been living under a rock? EVERYBODY complains about trials and the fact that they are the only way to get arcanes. 

Why not put some Arcanes as reward for Conclave then? LOL calm down... I'm just kidding, this would be terrible.

[AlphaPHENIX]

il y a 3 minutes, StinkyPygmy a dit :

If conclave actually improves and gets dedicated servers, maybe then we will see a shift. Until then PvE is what most people are here for.

Fun fact, it already ''has them''. You can still get host migration for some reason, but the servers are there and have been voluntered by the community itself (see how nice Conclave players can be? They would even host an entire sever for you!).

à l’instant, Aveu a dit :

Truth doesn't get old, it just exists. 

And have you been living under a rock? EVERYBODY complains about trials and the fact that they are the only way to get arcanes. 

Really? I don't see these ''EVERYBODY'' you are talking about. Oh you mean it literally? Ok, well in that case it means that everyone who plays Warframe has to complain about Arcanes, meaning if even one pearson doesn't, then not ''EVERYBODY'' is doing it. Well there you go, I am right here and I am not complaining about Arcanes, because they are not mandatory content.

[krc473]

1 minute ago, (Xbox One)Yamanishi1 said:

But you must agree that this is not good for DE... If they loose players because the PvP didn't receive the deserved attention, they are doing it wrong! 

What about this angle?

• Floods of players quit the game because DE decided to lock PvE content behind Conclave and PvP. No one gets Warframe for its PvP. If DE start putting genuinely useful stuff behind a PvP grindwall, they will lose far more players than if they do not touch conclave.

3 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Yamanishi1 said:

I think that Conclave should be in discussion with the following topic: Is it a mode that our player base don't cares or is a so broken that nobody wants to play?

I do not play Conclave because DE decided to balance it. It is not the Warframe I want to play. I like feeling like shooting something has an effect. If my gun can one hit level 100 enemies, but not a player, I am not interested. 

My main issue: DE basically nerfed all the weapons and Warframes to the ground for Conclave. They then gave us mediocre (at best) conclave mods to compensate for this. I get no enjoyment out of playing conclave on public servers. My clan and I sometimes run 1vAll, this is great fun. Why? Because we go in with balanced gear. 

I can join a public game, and take the weapons I like to use. Gear that should be more than adequate. But I get completely decimated because people use gear that is better suited to conclave. Braton Prime for example - this weapon is great for murdering people in Conclave, not so great actually in the game (my opinion).

 

The issue was the release. Players cared at first, because it was new and we might as well give it a shot. Lots of people played it - there were always groups running. DE has proceeded to re-balance stuff continually. Breaking abilities and making weapons far outshine others. So, the issue I think is that Conclave is so broken no one wants to play it. No matter what DE does with the current iteration of Conclave, I do not think the player base will care - the community impression matters. It is not fun currently. A complete rework would bring me back to it.

[AlphaPHENIX]

il y a 8 minutes, (Xbox One)Yamanishi1 a dit :

I think that Conclave should be in discussion with the following topic: Is it a mode that our player base don't cares or is a so broken that nobody wants to play?

Well clearly it's tiny community still plays it or we wouldn't even be talking about it right now, so it can't be that broken. Though yes, it certainly needs a fix.

[StinkyPygmy]

Just now, AlphaPHENIX said:

Fun fact, it already ''has them''. You can still get host migration for some reason, but the servers are there and have been voluntered by the community itself (see how nice Conclave players can be? They would even host an entire sever for you!).

 

Must of missed that. It sure as hek doesn't feel like it though. Constant migrations, laggy as hell etc. And before you bring it up, no, it's not my internet. I don't have these issues with anything else.

 

2 minutes ago, AlphaPHENIX said:

Really? I don't see these ''EVERYBODY'' you are talking about. Oh you mean it literally? Ok, well in that case it means that everyone who plays Warframe has to complain about Arcanes, meaning if even one pearson doesn't, then not ''EVERYBODY'' is doing it. Well there you go, I am right here and I am not complaining about Arcanes, because they are not mandatory content.

Feel like you took "everybody" way too literally. In anycase, I believe the point he was making is that, yes, a vast amount of the community hate arcanes being locked behind trials and complain frequently. Before that, the point was that something that is objectively true is not an excuse. Collectively, it is true that most of the playerbase feel conclave is horrible, hence the low dedicated playerbase for it. Ergo, conclave is objectively bad by majority consensus.

[Ghogiel]

1 minute ago, Heckzu said:

Conclave has no competition in its genre: high speed TPS shooter.

• S4 League is a decade old and very out of date
• GunZ the Duel's official servers were shut down years ago
• GunZ 2 flopped due to poor network infrastructure as well as choices made by the devs
• Double Action: Boogaloo is pretty much the only competitor, but lacks a sense of progression and has outdated graphics

But Conclave isn't advertised at all and isn't viable as a standalone mode since gear obtainment is tied to PvE.

Effectively this flavour of pvp game isn't very popular with gamers.

[Mavor]

"Conclave always empty... Whats is missing?"   Answer: a playerbase that wants pvp in WF.

The vast majority of players do not care about pvp in WF, thankfully.

Personally still don't know why they bothered wasting resources to add it in.

Edited November 12, 2017 by Mavor

[PR1D3]

33 minutes ago, Maqabir said:

I just started playing it and I can see why people never give it a fair chance.

Your weapons feel ineffective, your powers are all different, you move slow and your oppenents just swoop in and eviscerate you in a second. It's hard to shift gears from trying to find the best weapon and mod combinations to actually just getting good at aiming and dodging.

Took me a few games before it clicked but now I enjoy it immensely and in just two days I've managed to reach the title of Hurricane with Teshin. Since the player base is pretty small you start recognising names and it's really satisfying when you finally start to catch up with the guys who always seem to beat you.

Conclave really needs a tutorial, some shinier rewards and maybe some extra advertising.

The high learning curve does play a part. You have to get used to a system where movement importance just got raised even higher.

The shift from getting power from mods to getting power from being mechanically good is what drives people off (which is hilarious in a certain perspective that i could go on and on about XD). The neat thing about PVP is that many weapons people insult and call mastery fodder are actually viable in PVP due to the structure of the damage tables and frame suitability. It has old school arena shooter elements, the whole zooming around at high speeds, shooting constantly plus the consideration of the whole IPS damage spread. In PVP you have to use all weapons to be effective, be a better shot, and/or get super creative with some of the pvp mods. 

"How did that guy beat me when I'm using a weapon that is OP in PVE and he's using Mastery Fodder weapons?"

Cause he's actually moving and shooting, and he's using one thats heavy in impact to break your sheilds and one thats heavy in puncture (or slash depends on frame) to kill you.

Luckily I'm max rank and me and my clan mates do play it when we got an opportunity. Im close to getting that conclaive syndana. After that I'm probably going to finish up the sets and get the kraken skin as well. Conclaive has some neat treats, the skins are really nice. Especially on some of the grineer weapons. It makes them look a lot sleeker and less dirty. I love the way how my Daikyu looks now with it's conclaive skin. 

Its just that people don't want to be faced with a reality that they suck at the game, while still complaining about not having a challenge. At times there are moments where deaths feel unfair, until you asked yourself how long were you standing still? Was it more than 5 secs? Cause if you stand still for that long in any pvp game you're going to get #*($%%@.