8 Things I Hate About Warframe

[Ezekeel666]

Played Warframe for a couple of hundreds of hours now and I thought I give you some feedback about the things I really hate.

1. The Credit and Focus gains are too damn low

The game never felt particularly grindy to me. There were some low points like running 45+ spy missions on Lua to get that one missing Ivara component BP but in general I mostly had the feeling that I could collect the needed resources while having fun and just playing the game and not had to go through repetitive hour long grind session to get what I needed to progress.

There are two big painful exceptions to this which are getting Credits and Focus points. Both farming Credits and Focus cannot effectively be gained just by playing the game: I am owning over a douzen of Primed mods that I would love to use but cannot afford to rank up due to the horrendously high Credit costs and looking at Focus playing high level content for 4-5h only gives a measily 20-30k Focus despite me religiously collecting every freaking orb that pops up. The only way to effectively farm Credits and Focus is in a targeted effort farming specific missions in a certain setup with the goal to get it over with as quickly as possible: the definition of a chore and not playing a fun game.

2. Focus system is just another grind and does promote hardly any choice

The current Focus 2.0 system is just another grind, another bar to fill up. The only choice is what school to choose as primary. There is no choice about what skills to pick, only a choice about the order in which to get them because after a lot of grinding all of them can be unlocked anyway. There is no element of customization if everyone can have every skill (in one school) at the same time. Player decisions should matter and to make it matter there needs to be a system if one skill is chosen another one cannot be at the same time.

3. The Second Dream narrative was ruined with Enemy Within and further with the Quills [SPOILERS]

I really loved the Second Dream narrative for how it heavily impacted the way one looks at the Tenno and the player character in particular, their place in the world, the relationship to the Lotus and a lot more. When the player begins the game the way the Tenno are presented one assumes that there is a trained proud Samurai soldier somewhere within that warframe - if not in body then at least his brain/ghost/soul/whatever. With the Second Dream that understanding is completely shook up as the operator of the warframe is exposed as a physically weak and psychologically scarred kid forced into this role pretty much as much a victim of the circumstances and the strong anti-symmetry it provided to the inhumanely strong and nigh invincible tools of war that are the warframes wielded by them. It was perfectly symbolized in the moment the warframe carried the helpless operator in his arms to safety. And the realization of this was what broke Stalker. This anti-symmetry reminded me quite a bit of Neon Genesis Evangelion.

In War Within this anti-symmetry was partly deconstructed turning the operator from someone helpless who needed protecting into a utility psy spy for certain situations who was essentially untouchable (because only a projection or whatever) making his active involvement completely risk free. Then with the Quills and amps the operator turns into Psy Corvo Attano with mobility and offensive/defensive capabilities rivalling that of warframes (and a cool coat of course) completely shattering the previously introduced anti-symmetry. That was really really really really bad story telling. Remember when the Intersect gave Chuck ninja powers? Yeah that bad.

4. Forge has no queue

"And what did you do last night?" - "I played Warframe for an hour." - "Cool, what did you do? Kill Grineer, slaughter Corpus, roast Infested?" - "Nah. I build 60 Ciphers."

I mean seriously, how is this not in the game yet? Wake up people.

5. No in-game market

Sites like warframe market should not have to exist. This functionality should have been integrated into the game a long time ago. Chat trading was already getting old in Diablo 2 and that was 15-20 years ago. About time for Warframe to join us in the future, by which I mean the present.

6. AOE damage/crowd control too effective

It makes the game far too often far too trivial with the only challenge being left to not to fall asleep. Who bother with meleeing/shooting enemies one by one if one can as well use some crazy AOE weapon/ability which kills douzens of them at the same time at the press of one button.

7. 24h wait period after failing a MR test

Luckily only happened two times to me so far but both times I felt like quitting the game and not playing until I can repeat it 24 hours later (even though I knew it would not hinder my progress since I could still continue to earn XP). The psychological effect of failing a test is really negative and feels like a punishment. One fails the test and what one wants to do is improve and do better the next time proving to oneself that one can do it. But that is not possible and having to wait 24h feels extremely demotivating. I guess that restriction was not put in place to punish the player but to prevent power levelling new accounts in a short amount of time. The same could be achieved with letting the player retry failed tests immediately but after a success not allow the next MR test until 24h later.

8. Requirement to do fishing/mining

All the Ostron/Quill rewards require the player to farm fish/gems which are terribly boring activities that do not fit the scope of the game at all. Having them as optional mini-games would be fine but requiring the player to waste time with this nonsense is just bad design. It is like someone at DE read all the negative press and critic No Mans Sky was getting for being a boring shallow repetetive resource collection grind and thought "You know what this game needs. Running around with a laser like an idiot shooting at rocks.". Who does that? Learn from the mistakes of others.
 

[Fallen_Echo]

I pretty much agree with everything expext point 6.

The problem there is that we are sitting in a doom spiral. The enemies have an absolutely broken scaling system what turns your avarage drunken hobo unit into a super saiyan Chuck Norris, to combat this the community started to shift into either raw power builds, mass crowd control builds or absolute cheese builds. DE were fine with this and added more mods and more questionable enemies into the mix.

When the starts align and the man in the wall decides to screw with you, you can easily find the following enemy combos what can only be defeated by damage/cc spam:

-Eximus frost bombard along with cautius eximus heavy gunner and a leech napalm in a team of scorpions.

-Guardian eximus osspreys, with 2 frost tech behind 3 nullfier bubbles and a literal sapper minefield.

-Ancients. Nothing like trying to fight 10 ancient where half of them are healer while the others are disruptors combined with atleast 2 venomous and 1 parasite eximus.

 

At this point this system cannot be fixed without completely breaking the game. DE cant start to only fix the weapons and then the enemies or visa-versa because that will create huge balance issues and horrible bugs. They might aswell create warframe 2.0 from scratch, theres too many to be changed.

[Shalath]

3 - This shows the helpless operator evolving into something less useless.

5 - Auction houses almost always start a race for the bottom with prices. You listed a mod at 15p? Fine, I'll list mine at 14p so mine gets sold first. Somebody else sees mine at 14p and lists one at 13p. Ok, since I have 30 of them I'll list them all at 1p since I just want them gone. Buy orders would do the same. A blind auction won't work because prices are low enough that I can bid 1p, then 2p and so on until I get the cheapest listings.

The likely reason won't even consider an AH is because if it does tank prices and lower plat sales it will be too late to do anything about it. They take away the AH and the community will rage. Don't take it away and their revenue starts to dry up leading to layoffs which leads to less people working on the game which leads to players leaving through boredom/bugs which leads to less plat sales and a spiral.

[Fallen_Echo]

1 hour ago, Shalath said:

Auction houses almost always start a race for the bottom with prices. You listed a mod at 15p? Fine, I'll list mine at 14p so mine gets sold first. Somebody else sees mine at 14p and lists one at 13p. Ok, since I have 30 of them I'll list them all at 1p since I just want them gone. Buy orders would do the same. A blind auction won't work because prices are low enough that I can bid 1p, then 2p and so on until I get the cheapest listings.

The likely reason won't even consider an AH is because if it does tank prices and lower plat sales it will be too late to do anything about it. They take away the AH and the community will rage. Don't take it away and their revenue starts to dry up leading to layoffs which leads to less people working on the game which leads to players leaving through boredom/bugs which leads to less plat sales and a spiral.

And that can be easily fixed by placing a plat tax on the items sold there.

The tax starts from 10p and goes down by 1p for every 20p spent but cant get lower than 1p which means if you try to sell something for less than 11p you dont get anything but as fast as you reach 200p it only takes off 1p total.

This forces people who sell cheap items to either raise their prices or stay on the trade chat and those who sell expensive stuff get a nice, cheap and fast way to sell items.

[Shalath]

13 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

And that can be easily fixed by placing a plat tax on the items sold there.

The tax starts from 10p and goes down by 1p for every 20p spent but cant get lower than 1p which means if you try to sell something for less than 11p you dont get anything but as fast as you reach 200p it only takes off 1p total.

This forces people who sell cheap items to either raise their prices or stay on the trade chat and those who sell expensive stuff get a nice, cheap and fast way to sell items.

Taxing players for currency purchased with real money may be a legal issue in some countries though. I think it was a similar reason they couldn't extend the PC/Console prize draw to some countries.

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

Credits have never bene an isshue for me but the focus system now kinda sucks. it wasnt so grate befor but it was interesting... I had the full tree unlocked befor and I could afford to make out one or two nodes in the new one. its padding out gamepaly time where it dosnt need to.

The lore is kind of messed up for many resons but its not the worst. lot of plotholes thouhgt, and it seems like its trying to be mall goth edgy at times rather then being th elsihgtly dark and gritty game I started palying back in its first year.

I wouldnt mind a que for the fordge, but I think this isnt going to be added in becasue its part of how they make money. It is slightly inconvyent so you will want to pay to rush things.

Market is never going to happen partly becasue it keeps prices higher. try warframe market place. that is as close as you are going to get.

AOE is fine, more or less. at higher difficulties it gets less effective however.

there was a time where you had to requalify for a test I think. so if you failed, you had to re level. I might be wrong about that, but i rember it being far worse. all I can say is try praticing in the relay befor taking it.

The requermnts for fishing and mineing not only limit gamepaly but also restrict the type of open world maps that DE can do. if we have archwing in the next map we will ither alwas have to return to PoE, or the other maps will have to have fish in them. Mineing is a bit more universal, but it means we need rocks of some type in the level. if they stik to the same modle for each one, we are just going to get the same map over and over with iffrent colors.

 

Id like to add to the list-

Zaws and Amps are not rewarding for the amont of time you have to grind for them. the itmes are not very good and it takes so long in the same map doing the same tasks for somehting that is outsghined by nearly everyhitng outside of it. sure some o them look cool, but you can get better almost right off the bat. At some point they had talked about removieng the card systme in favor of busling wepons that you could swap parts on and the like. the idea was kind of abnadoned becasue of how intigrated the card systme is, but I feel like this was ment to be what they had wanted to do with zaws. if the rest of the game was like this, I would not be palying it.

[Fallen_Echo]

1 hour ago, Shalath said:

Taxing players for currency purchased with real money may be a legal issue in some countries though. I think it was a similar reason they couldn't extend the PC/Console prize draw to some countries.

They can call it auction fee and avoid any problems and even if thats not enough the plat purchased are already taxed when you pay therefore they cant really pull anything about it.

If the plat we get would be tax free then the lawyers and such could actually sue DE as they are now using illegal methods of gaining cash.

[HC217]

1-2: it's a grindy game, if you don't like grind then there's nothing to say, you picked a bad game to play. devs have already said focus grind is being reduced. creds are easy, just find the right spots.

3: subjective, if you don't like the story then that's you. i liked it, lots of other people liked it, if you don't then sorry for your loss.

4: agreed, except for 24-hour crafts. they're in there for daily logins and queues would mostly be used for the 1-10 min gear crafts

5: no. no auction houses, go look at other auction houses and how nearly every person says no. then read more, and more, and more, and more. then go on google and look at all the games that have gone down the drain over auction houses. so no.

6: it's a mob shooter game, aoe killing trash mobs is how it works. go try to aoe a lvl150 bombard and see how that works out for you.

7: you can practice in the simulacrum in your downtime, or before to warm up. the "punishment" is in for reasons you yourself said. personally, i think draco's created enough mr20+ players with no understanding of game mechanics. i refrained from the dark souls response, though, so there's progress

8: fish and gems are tradeable and cheap, so if you don't like fishing/mining you don't have to do it yourself. you just have to pay someone else for it. comparing NMS and warframe is like comparing minecraft and WoW. vastly different games to the point of redundancy to compare them. so i'm not gonna bother

[Tokens210]

3. During these quests and the quest before it when figuring out that your warframe is not your actual character were told that are operators were actually hurting or killing people on accident cause we were so powerful and couldnt control it

we were placed in the pods to keep us calm while transference allowed us to use the frame to learn how to control our abilities, teshin later tells us that was a mistake and we were lied to cause instead we forgot who we were, forgot our power and believed we were our frames

 

Operators never needed protecting, everyone else needed protection from us, Lotus Hides Lua cause were vulnerable in that sleep state and she feared the sentients may come looking for us and they cannot cross the void twice, so she hid us in the void till we were awoken

 

our operators and then their frames were weapons that could actually beat the Sentients which is why lotus and the other were going to kill Orokin, Kill Us and leave

Edited November 21, 2017 by Tokens210

[Ezekeel666]

2 hours ago, HC217 said:

i refrained from the dark souls response, though, so there's progress

Yeah... but only very little. 

[CrazyCatLad]

Non-refundable credit tax on Auction House (or its variant). I will always support an auction house. F*** that trade chat and if you actually like using it, you might be a masochist.

[Ezekeel666]

It does not have to be a real WoW style auction house per se. A pure listing service like warframe.market would be completely sufficient in my opinion. It already exists outside of the game, I am just suggesting that DE integrate it directly into the game for player convenience and also general security because such a central part of the game should not be conceded to the control of a third party. Also for all the armchair economy experts here, supply vs demand drives the prices of wares not the existence of an auction house.

[PoisonHD]

24 minutes ago, Ezekeel666 said:

It does not have to be a real WoW style auction house per se. A pure listing service like warframe.market would be completely sufficient in my opinion. It already exists outside of the game, I am just suggesting that DE integrate it directly into the game for player convenience and also general security because such a central part of the game should not be conceded to the control of a third party. Also for all the armchair economy experts here, supply vs demand drives the prices of wares not the existence of an auction house.

Yes, supply and demand has a major effect on prices, but an auction house also has an effect on them.

[Ezekeel666]

The only effect a free easily accessible market place like an auction house has that I can see is to provide a price guide for inexperienced players resulting in less variance of sales prices. It would make it harder for experience players to work the market place lowballing inexperienced players and then reselling it for profit. Tough luck for those guys but overall players would be able to receive a more fair price for their sale.

If you see some other effect feel free to properly elaborate that claim.

[PoisonHD]

6 minutes ago, Ezekeel666 said:

The only effect a free easily accessible market place like an auction house has that I can see is to provide a price guide for inexperienced players resulting in less variance of sales prices. It would make it harder for experience players to work the market place lowballing inexperienced players and then reselling it for profit. Tough luck for those guys but overall players would be able to receive a more fair price for their sale.

If you see some other effect feel free to properly elaborate that claim.

As another pointed person out, you can easily cut the price of a certain item just by having a lot of them, and listing them low. Personally, through many games with auction houses I have experienced similar issues. The price drops like a rock for a time, before slowly crawling it's way back to where it was before. A low price in an auction house, would result in others listing them at that price if the first items weren't bought up immediately.

If a group of players wanted to, they could literally lower the price of an item by listing an abundance of it at low, varying prices. I'll use the game Trove as an example, since the end-game players in my club do it all the time with the auction house.

Edited November 22, 2017 by PoisonHD

[Ezekeel666]

And then some other big player with enough liquidity buys up all the wares you listed below market value and resells them for profit. Great plan. Market manipulation like this only works on tiny isolated markets and looking at the size of the Warframe economy I see no threat at all.

[MirageKnight]

8 hours ago, Fluff-E-Kitty said:

Zaws and Amps are not rewarding for the amont of time you have to grind for them. the itmes are not very good and it takes so long in the same map doing the same tasks for somehting that is outsghined by nearly everyhitng outside of it. sure some o them look cool, but you can get better almost right off the bat. At some point they had talked about removieng the card systme in favor of busling wepons that you could swap parts on and the like. the idea was kind of abnadoned becasue of how intigrated the card systme is, but I feel like this was ment to be what they had wanted to do with zaws. if the rest of the game was like this, I would not be palying it.

This. While it's true that some Zaws are capable of performing as well as - if not better than - equivalent regular weapons, regular weapons are far more quickly obtained. A few runs to net the resources you need - resources that are just drops - and 12 -24 hours of build time. Zaws are massively grindy, requiring dedicated farming of certain resources and even after building Zaws, you can't potato, forma or colour them...and they don't even have their true stats yet. For that, you need to grind rep and level them.

A Zaw is easily 2-3 days of farming and grind. A regular tenno blade? For the most part, just grab a BP for credits, gather some resources, stick in the oven, bake for a few hours, and it's ready to be potato'd and customized to your liking.

[PoisonHD]

8 minutes ago, Ezekeel666 said:

And then some other big player with enough liquidity buys up all the wares you listed below market value and resells them for profit. Great plan. Market manipulation like this only works on tiny isolated markets and looking at the size of the Warframe economy I see no threat at all.

Market manipulation is a big deal, and some items in Warframe could be considered tiny markets. Maiming Strike for instance. Once someone has a good amount of a certain item, they can artificially lower or raise the price of that item. If it's popular, and in high demand, that's a big deal.

Heck, again, a group of players working together with a lot of disposable plat can manipulate the market that way.

Edited November 22, 2017 by PoisonHD

[Ezekeel666]

And another group of players or just a single one with a lot of disposable plat can easily take advantage of that and completely ruin the other groups plan while making profit in the process.

[Ratentaisou]

Things i hate about warframe :

1. Ember

2. Nezha is a male frame

And that's about it.

[PoisonHD]

2 hours ago, Ezekeel666 said:

And another group of players or just a single one with a lot of disposable plat can easily take advantage of that and completely ruin the other groups plan while making profit in the process.

Yes, that can happen, but what I said also can happen with no check by another player.

[Aechmea]

17 hours ago, Ezekeel666 said:

AOE damage/crowd control too effective

WHAT

[Loswaith]

2 hours ago, PoisonHD said:

Yes, supply and demand has a major effect on prices, but an auction house also has an effect on them.

Auction/trading houses just show the real supply and demand across the game, not some isolated subset of supply and demand that is due to arbitrary limitations on the system.  For warframe, supply cost is only the time it takes to farm something (or pay for someone else to farm), which varies extensivly to what value each player puts on that time.

 

2 hours ago, PoisonHD said:

Market manipulation is a big deal, and some items in Warframe could be considered tiny markets. Maiming Strike for instance. Once someone has a good amount of a certain item, they can artificially lower or raise the price of that item. If it's popular, and in high demand, that's a big deal.

Manipulation is possible even in the current system, it is however much more transparent for an auction/trading house than it is currently (even prices are obfuscated currently).

The market overall can only be manipulated to an extent. If prices lower a lot, people buy them up to sell later (or just stop selling them).  If it rises to high, it becomes much more viable to go farm whatever is being sold at the 'over-priced' value, while also leaving a vacuum for a farmer or other traders to sweep in and make a tidy profit.

Prime parts are likely the biggest that would fall into the manipulation aspect as they often have limited times to their availability, however those older relics also become much more viable/valuable after that factor that players may actually use many more of them that they just horde now, because they can see their actual value.
It would also put much more value in farming those vault relics when they do become available.

DE isn't about to up and remove all the current restrictions if they did implement an auction/trading house, and would likely add a few additional ones.

[Carnage2K4]

17 hours ago, Ezekeel666 said:

4. Forge has no queue

"And what did you do last night?" - "I played Warframe for an hour." - "Cool, what did you do? Kill Grineer, slaughter Corpus, roast Infested?" - "Nah. I build 60 Ciphers."

I mean seriously, how is this not in the game yet? Wake up people.

This...
I set up a macro recently to L Click, Enter, wait 1 minute, L Click... repeat... just so I could make 30 minutes worth of Energy Pizzas in the Foundry while I made Dinner and had a shower...

Forma, Pizzas and some other stuff needs a Queue for 10-20 lots of the item.

Edited November 22, 2017 by Carnage2K4

[Roomba_Prime]

I hate slots, inventory slots, that stuff, i wish i could buy them for regular credits, not plat