Please nerf or remove Ember already...

[Glavenusaur]

55 minutes ago, Fluff-E-Kitty said:

Im going to play more ember, just for you.

Sure, please play the game for me, also give me all your end level gear while just telling me the story for the second dream also so you can save me the torture of playing through it myself, not like this ruins the game for new players at all...

[Glavenusaur]

43 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

I mean a change in design could be warranted though, something that makes her not entirely trivialize low level content to the degree she does, but in return allows her to have actual scaling.  

This, 100% this. The developers need to get on this, if they aren't already, i cant see at all why anyone would disagree, though looking at this thread...

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

11 minutes ago, Glavenusaur said:

Sure, please play the game for me, also give me all your end level gear while just telling me the story for the second dream also so you can save me the torture of playing through it myself, not like this ruins the game for new players at all...

Unfintatly this boils down to 

 

But to be fair, im not going to be palying on low level areas all that much where your complaint is semi valid in the fact that things die too quickly. you do get exp from it, and your going to find that the "endgame" is how fast you can kill or how efficnt you can crowd control large groups. the higher the level is, the less effective large CC frames like ember become, and its more about out dpsing and suviving the other stuff. 

I will never understand someone complaining about getting a mission done more efficiently, but that is just me.

I however would probibly bring ember to PoE for some of the bonties as it helps a lot BUT I have gara and no longer need to o the ones where she would be the most efficnt on.

 

Also have to say, if your looking for a better mob killing kinda game, Desinty 2 excels in a lot of the ways warframe does not.

Edited December 7, 2017 by Fluff-E-Kitty

[Brynslustafir]

Ember really only mops the floor with enemies below 40 or 50. Take on an endgame level task and she has a really hard time staying alive long enough for her ult to do anything, even with accelerant on enemies.

I run a high power strength build, and I tried taking her into a high level bounty after I got bored of equinox. What did I get? Killed. A lot. Almost all of my kills were from my prisma grakata, and a Volt on my squad was able to do a better job of crowd control. 

Ember REALLY falls off after a certain level. I completely understand your frustrations. Nobody likes sitting bored around the pod as an Ember, Equinox, Saryn, or other just plays the game for you, but it sounds like you've mostly only seen Ember in low to mid level content. Trust me, She's much less annoying at anything near sortie level. 

Now EQUINOX on the other hand... 

Edited December 7, 2017 by Plasmaface

[Sintag]

Or maybe just hit World on Fire with the bat and cap how much damage each spike can do to, say, 70% of enemy HP so as to make low-level content impossible to cheese through by pressing 4 and making a fizzy drink?

[Psycho-002]

Jesus Christ if you're going to go this far out of your way to make yourself out to be a victim of every Ember user ever, just play Solo already and save us your whining.

Literally the only reason this issue offends you at all is because you feel upstaged by another player who isn't skill-shotting everything. For heaven's sake, you're calling Ember a cheat. In a non pvp game mode. You feel cheated of potential damage and contributions that can impress yourself and others on the results screen. That's how childish you're being right now.

So what happens when someone picks up the Ignis, a literal spray-and pray weapon that wipes legions of Infested off the map? Or uses an Opticor to one-shot that boss you were going to kill? Or a Limbo locks down the Mobile Defense objective in a Sortie? 

If you're going to complain this much about how other players doing things in runs to complete the mission more efficiently is making you feel like you aren't important enough in the squad, then switch to Solo, or Invite only, and rustle up a run on your own terms.

Christ. You made an entire post just to whine about how Ember should just be removed from the game because her users make you feel unimportant during runs.

8 minutes ago, Glavenusaur said:

This, 100% this. The developers need to get on this, if they aren't already, i cant see at all why anyone would disagree, though looking at this thread...

This is exactly the problem. You're making this all about yourself. You feel so victimized by your lack of damage numbers that you want to demand she be nerfed just so you don't feel like you're anything less than significant.

"Make her scale", you're now saying. "She makes it too easy for other people to outdamage me".

Under level 30, a Valkyr Paralysis build could probably outdamage you. All she needs to do is build enough Strength and yell at things. a Frost+Trinity pair trivialize any defensive/extermination type mission. Nidus will slaughter anything you were shooting at for longer than two seconds. Mesa can instantly clear any room she enters. Aside from the Paralysis build, none of the above need heavy modding to work efficiently, nor do they take any semblance of skill to pull off. Are you going to demand nerfs for them too, after you discover them when Ember gets nerfed into the ground?

I can understand the sentiment of thinking Ember is too powerful the way she is, but you're being exceedingly transparent with your motivations behind your self-serving demands.

If being outdamaged bothers you so much, play solo or in a locked party. And Inb4 'I only have a problem when it takes 0 skill', you'll find that there are many, many more weapons and abilities that will infuriate you as much as an Ember pressing 4

[Nerdonis]

As an Ember user who occasionally does hit low level nodes for relics, if someone were to ask me to turn off WoF, I would happily comply. Asking never hurts and I do still need those relics

[-_Highlander_-]

This is how i see Ember

 

This is how the most see Ember 

Spoiler

So much diffrence >.<

[Psycho-002]

Just now, Neo_182 said:

No, actually it's affected more than just OP.

I have a problem with frames and weapons that affect MY gameplay.

It does suck the fun out of what should be a cooperative game.

Now perhaps if you don't like that you can play solo.

You seem to be under the illusion that runs that you're in need to revolve around you.

"It does suck the fun out of what should be a cooperative game", you say, and then want to demand that an Ember shouldn't do what an Ember does because it bothers you specifically.

So cooperative.

If you're so concerned about YOUR gameplay, then again, play solo. Don't make other players suffer just because you feel victimized by someone else's frame or weapon choice. They're trying to enjoy the game just as much as you are, and maybe don't want to play an Exterminate as if it were a no-alarms riven challenge.

I, on the other hand, love to play stealth. So yes I will play solo if I want to get some sneaking done and don't want unpleasant interruptions.

Funny how you want to jump in on the 'Actually it affects more than just one person' argument, and then immediately make it about yourself.

Almost as if the people who have the most against Ember users feel personally attacked that someone would dare to pick such a frame in a public lobby.

Set your party to Invite only and drag Glavenusaur out with you, so you can whine about how annoying and selfish random Ember users are for daring to steal all of your kills.

[andayk]

1 minute ago, Neo_182 said:

Now perhaps if you don't like that you can play solo.

Problem is: If nerf/remove-cryers like OP succeed, we won't have any fun playing Ember on solo either. Because then they ruined it for everyone.

You just have to cope with the fact that sometimes when joining a pug, you will be completely superfluous and useless. It happens regularly that I join a high-level mission with my Trin, only to discover the other three players are so powerful they don't even need any heal or excess energy. I join a Hierachon with a Vauban and get matched with two frosts. I join a spy and everyone gets to the vaults before me.

Possibilities to deal with that:

• semi-afk the mission and wait for it being over
• try to scavenge for additional ressources (rare nodes/ember stars, etc) and mark them for your mates
• "pretend" to be useful by dealing tiny amounts of damage or skills nobody needs
• go to the forums and cry

Possibilities to never have to deal with that:

• none

[Aechmea]

13 minutes ago, -_Highlander_- said:

This is how the most see Ember 

  Reveal hidden contents

this is how i see Ember

[andayk]

6 minutes ago, Neo_182 said:

I am trying to get something fixed that I believe is broken. (And in case you hadn't noticed, i am not alone in believing this.)

Unfortunately you (and all your like-minded posters) are utterly wrong about what is 'broken' here. So the logical consequence is voices of reason opposing you.

[Psycho-002]

28 minutes ago, Neo_182 said:

Listen.
Instead of coming in here and taking a metaphorical dump on everyone, how about you leave this topic alone?
You're so great and have all the solutions right?
Good. 
I am trying to get something fixed that I believe is broken. (And in case you hadn't noticed, i am not alone in believing this.)
It literally is not about myself.
I am arguing for the newcomer experience.

I play solo when i please.
This is a coop game. 
Keep your attitude in check or don't speak to me at all. 

Thanks.

You're really not helping your whole image of self importance with all all that high and mighty talk.

You didn't seem to mind the OP coming and taking a 'metaphorical dump' on all Ember users because he felt attacked by the fact that they did more damage than him.

Neither am I alone in believing that it isn't broken. Your point there is moot.

It literally is about you though. You just finished saying that you have a problem when you come across, and I quote "frames and weapons that affect [your] gameplay." So no, you're not arguing for the newcomer experience, you're arguing for yourself on an issue that just so happens to be affecting a newcomer as well. Get off your high horse.

"This is a coop game", and as a player in a coop game, a player is more than entitled to bring whatever warframe or weapon they so please into a Public lobby. Arguing that the options they chose should be nerfed or removed from the game just because they don't line up with your playstyle is the furthest thing you could do from being cooperative, second only to harassing them.

Nor does Ember take away from or destroy the spirit of a co-op game because of her DPS. It's what she was built for, and I'm sure there'd be plenty of players who'd tell you how amazing it was to have an ally take the metaphorical heat off their back while they worked the objective.

Speak to me or don't. Honestly, I don't give a damn.

Edited December 7, 2017 by Psycho-002

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

41 minutes ago, Neo_182 said:

[(PSN)Crackle2012]

Hey all!  I.... err... strange!  I suddenly got a whiff of burnt chicken...

Anyways, just a quick reminder to please remember to try to keep it respectful when discussing / debating!  ;-)

Thank you guys!

[andayk]

7 minutes ago, Neo_182 said:

Not everyone agrees and i understand that.
Perhaps broken isn't the proper term.
Anyway, in my opinion she needs to be reworked so that she doesn't disrupt other players experience on lower levels.

If Ember gets "reworked" high level players will still "ruin the new player experience" by using the most convenient/efficient Frame for rushing through low level content. Ember will be "fixed", the new player will still occasionally get next no kills in his mission and continue to feel powerless (which he in fact is) and everyone will still be unhappy.

[-_Highlander_-]

 and here we land the eagle

 

--- Ember isnt ruiing any experience .. --

Its the player behind it

He can Make or Break you're day

He Can be polite or not

He can be an Team worker or an solo player

No mather what you all trying to prove 

 

There will be always something comming .. that blows up just as hard

 

Let me direct you all to Mesa ... how fast you can outrun Ember with it .. 

even in higher levels 

Personality /.Functionality 

Think it over what is realy messing up you're game play

 

 

 

[(PSN)Silverback73]

3 hours ago, Glavenusaur said:

My earlier comment is not me trying to act like a victim but rather an expression for my "disappointment" Has playing the game become such a chore for people that the only way they have left to enjoy the game is to simply "sprint to win" in front of us who are just starting out? But hey if you enjoy the game with the ability, fine, just please let the rest of us have a chance at actually playing the game before you obliterate everything.

Are you in a clan?  Best choice you can make.  Instant access to an additional 20% more content and players who have a stake in the player experience.

[Glavenusaur]

 

1 hour ago, Psycho-002 said:

Jesus Christ if you're going to go this far out of your way to make yourself out to be a victim of every Ember user ever, just play Solo already and save us your whining.

Literally the only reason this issue offends you at all is because you feel upstaged by another player who isn't skill-shotting everything. For heaven's sake, you're calling Ember a cheat. In a non pvp game mode. You feel cheated of potential damage and contributions that can impress yourself and others on the results screen. That's how childish you're being right now.

So what happens when someone picks up the Ignis, a literal spray-and pray weapon that wipes legions of Infested off the map? Or uses an Opticor to one-shot that boss you were going to kill? Or a Limbo locks down the Mobile Defense objective in a Sortie? 

If you're going to complain this much about how other players doing things in runs to complete the mission more efficiently is making you feel like you aren't important enough in the squad, then switch to Solo, or Invite only, and rustle up a run on your own terms.

Christ. You made an entire post just to whine about how Ember should just be removed from the game because her users make you feel unimportant during runs.

This is exactly the problem. You're making this all about yourself. You feel so victimized by your lack of damage numbers that you want to demand she be nerfed just so you don't feel like you're anything less than significant.

"Make her scale", you're now saying. "She makes it too easy for other people to outdamage me".

Under level 30, a Valkyr Paralysis build could probably outdamage you. All she needs to do is build enough Strength and yell at things. a Frost+Trinity pair trivialize any defensive/extermination type mission. Nidus will slaughter anything you were shooting at for longer than two seconds. Mesa can instantly clear any room she enters. Aside from the Paralysis build, none of the above need heavy modding to work efficiently, nor do they take any semblance of skill to pull off. Are you going to demand nerfs for them too, after you discover them when Ember gets nerfed into the ground?

I can understand the sentiment of thinking Ember is too powerful the way she is, but you're being exceedingly transparent with your motivations behind your self-serving demands.

If being outdamaged bothers you so much, play solo or in a locked party. And Inb4 'I only have a problem when it takes 0 skill', you'll find that there are many, many more weapons and abilities that will infuriate you as much as an Ember pressing 4

No sh*t im talking about myself, as this is directly affecting me but as its obvious to see, its also clearly affecting other people, If ember was such a balanced warframe, why has this thread caused such a ruckus? Also keep in mind games balancing i rarely if ever perfect. Or are you telling me the developers have never Nerfed a warframe before as it was all pitch perfect back then ey?

You want to know what helps balance within video games though? FEEDBACK, the section of the forum where we are in right now. Where i can critisize and complain about inbalances i believe to exist all i want whether you care or dont, and where anyone else can also,

But please, since you act like you know all about this game please enlighten me how i as a new player could contribute to the team with embers running around killing everything right when they spawn?

Just because being carried without contributing may be your idea of fun, doesnt make it mine, or quite a few peoples idea of fun here either.

Guess some people clearly cant handle criticism without throwing sh*t everywhere huh...

 

Edited December 7, 2017 by Glavenusaur

[andayk]

1 minute ago, Neo_182 said:

I've been searching for a solution to this for a long time. 
That would please everyone.
I think the best way to go about it (of course in my opinion..) would be to have a LoS nerf and make her WoF work like Nova's Molecular Prime.

Sorry, I was not clear about the point I was trying to make: If Ember was severely nerfed people would use other AoE capable Frames to instakill everyting <lvl30. They just use Ember now because it's the most convenient. The underlying problem (new players wont get kills in their mission, feel useless etc.) will persist. With or without Ember.

A more appropriate approach to this could be a matchmaking option like "Don't match me with players wielding a loadout with conclave rating above X". So the MR 20 player who just want to run as many Lith-exterminates per hour will not end up getting paired with MR2 and "ruin" his stealth approach to the very same mission. Of course this would have to be thoroughly introduced and explained b/c new players likely don't even know what "conclave rating" means.

[Kagee]

4 hours ago, Glavenusaur said:

Im glad that you like, and don't want to take that away from you, but please understand at lower levels like where i am, your literally just making us stand there with our fingers up our A$$ and thumbs in our mouths. Especially when some new players have barely in the game long enough to understand how the resource system even works, let alone care about completing the game by any means necessary as quick as possible. I hope you can at least understand my point of view.

I understand your point, as far as your point is:

A veteran player who has specialized his warframes/weapons can bring new players to a point where they think: I did (nearly) nothing to complete this mission. This feels bad, I want to have an impact on this mission.

I agree with this, but this can be done in many several ways. Like with a high ranged melee, with an atomos or sonicor. I can run a corpus exterminate with sonicor doing 70% of the damage with the weapon alone.

[andayk]

3 minutes ago, Glavenusaur said:

If ember was such a balanced warframe, why has this thread caused such a ruckus?

Because Ember is a valuable tool to farm low level content. If it were to be nerfed or removed, people would still use other frames to do almost the exact same thing (only with slightly less convenience), you would still get no kills and now everyone would be unhappy.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

2 hours ago, Fluff-E-Kitty said:

Im going to play more ember, just for you.

Omg!!!!!  How did you get Witchframe's Kitty already you cheater!!!   Not fair!  Nerf Fluff-E-Kitty early access! 😆

[(PSN)Silverback73]

1 hour ago, Plasmaface said:

Ember really only mops the floor with enemies below 40 or 50. Take on an endgame level task and she has a really hard time staying alive long enough for her ult to do anything, even with accelerant on enemies.

I run a high power strength build, and I tried taking her into a high level bounty after I got bored of equinox. What did I get? Killed. A lot. Almost all of my kills were from my prisma grakata, and a Volt on my squad was able to do a better job of crowd control. 

Ember REALLY falls off after a certain level. I completely understand your frustrations. Nobody likes sitting bored around the pod as an Ember, Equinox, Saryn, or other just plays the game for you, but it sounds like you've mostly only seen Ember in low to mid level content. Trust me, She's much less annoying at anything near sortie level. 

Now EQUINOX on the other hand... 

People have no IDEA the $|>I+$+0rm mass use of Equinox could  cause if usage equaled Ember, lol.  

Good thing fire is sexier, Equinox takes a boatload of build requirements, and she looks like a 6" rubber action figure of a Power Ranger Villain 😁.

[Railgun]

Just now, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

she looks like a 6" rubber action figure of a Power Ranger Villain 😁.

best thing to come out of this thread so far.