Allow us to buy PoE resources and fish with regular starchart resources.

[Ventura_Highway]

On 12/25/2017 at 8:24 AM, AperoBeltaTwo said:

This thread is not about fixing the problem of short 5 minute parkour simulator missions that barely have enough gameplay for a single person, while being a 4-player coop. I don't have a magical solution to that.

 This thread offers a solution to the problem of having a portion of combat-oriented content being locked behind a tedious non-combat side activity. 

Imagine if Fissures were locked behind Lunaro - that kind of side activity.

What's the point if you're just trading boring for boring?

[AperoBeltaTwo]

5 minutes ago, Ventura_Highway said:

What's the point if you're just trading boring for boring?

Quoting Rebecca: "What's the point of anything?"

P.S. Sarcasm doesn't relate very well on the internet, m8.

 I can't fix the flaws in Warframe gameplay. What I offer in this thread is to stick to just the flaws of Warframe gameplay, instead of adding another gameplay with its own set of flaws on top of it. Fishing is like a game within a game. Nobody really wanted it, even the people who claim to like it. It's not Warframe. If it was completely gone from the game, nobody would even miss it.

[Bobtm]

There are a few sides to this particular issue, and it's not something you could solve so simply as you're describing.  Just to tackle your suggestion directly, they definitely won't just let you bypass Cetus content by using stockpiled resources, even though it makes sense lore-wise.  Reason being, it's simply a poor idea from a game design standpoint.  The entire concept of adding new content is to try and get players out of the monotony, that's a lot of the foundation to the Plains update.  It essentially moves to "break the mold" of standard Warframe gameplay as it were.  Which is something a lot of folks are grateful for.

However I personally despise fishing with a fiery passion.  So I can fully sympathize with your overall feeling in that regard.  It's possible to look towards other solutions for this type of thing.  They could for example have special bounties from both the Fisher Lady (Hai Luk maybe, I can't recall for sure) or Old Man .... Sumbaat?  whatever.  Anyways have these bounties open up to players as they progress in their overall Ostron ranking, and give the bounties reward structuring similar to what the standard bounties have.  With higher ranked bounties having some fish bits or rock hunks that randomize about.

It would not be directly as efficient as mining or fishing is, in terms of time spent per resources gained, but would be an alternative and fair option for those who wish to avoid those activities.  As an off-set the player would also get some Ostron rep to better balance it out.  For the sake of fairness (if needed) they could possibly lock access to these bounties behind obtaining the gear needed to acquire the new items.  The fishing spears, bait, and mining lasers.  This way a player can essentially do favors for the Fishing/Mining NPCs and be rewarded for it in a reasonable manner.

As a final note;

15 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Yeah, Amps and Zaws are kinda >expletive<

Oh how woefully wrong this is.  Amps won't be replacing your standard weaponry for regular missions, but a properly tuned Amp can do quite a hefty amount of damage in a pinch.  It's a funny option for obscure situations.  Like if you're running melee only and a Nox shows up, rather than flailing and hoping for a melee headshot you can, with the right Amp composition, tag a relatively high damage headshot and actually sometimes badly wound or outright kill said Nox depending on its level.

As for Zaws, they're almost across the board "best in slot" for their given weapon categories.  A Sword Zaw is outright better than any other standard Sword.  A Dagger Zaw is leaps and bounds ahead of any normal Dagger.  The only category where you can make any case at all for a non-Zaw variant beating its in-class Zaws is in Polearms.  And even then the Zaws are essentially at the same tier as those superb non-Zaw Polearm options.

Edited December 25, 2017 by Bobtm
Wording error.

[Ventura_Highway]

Never mind, I'm going to edit this out so I don't risk a warning. This isn't worth a warning point, even with how little I care about those.

Edited December 25, 2017 by Ventura_Highway

[peterc3]

Then what's the point of new resources if you can just trade for them? You are essentially asking them to erase the PoE resources and convert it all to the old resources.

[Acersecomic]

3 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

 Fishing is like a game within a game. Nobody really wanted it, even the people who claim to like it. It's not Warframe. If it was completely gone from the game, nobody would even miss it.

Name the people who want it gone.

Cuzz you know what? Fishing is a god damn hit. A lot of people ACTUALLY ENJOY FISHING IN WARFRAME!
Get it through your thick skull.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

30 minutes ago, Acersecomic said:

Name the people who want it gone.

Cuzz you know what? Fishing is a god damn hit. A lot of people ACTUALLY ENJOY FISHING IN WARFRAME!
Get it through your thick skull.

 Gosh, I can't believe you're seriously trying to drag me into a dispute about tastes. It's not a discussion whether we should have fishing in the game or not. We're talking about locking COMBAT-related gear behind this side activity. And you're talking to me about being thick. Fish as much as you like, who cares.

• Why should I be FORCED to FISH to unlock content that has absolutely nothing to do with fishing?
• Why side activities completely unrelated to the core gameplay are the only path to core gameplay content?

 Tell me.

Edited December 25, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[AperoBeltaTwo]

4 hours ago, Bobtm said:

There are a few sides to this particular issue, and it's not something you could solve so simply as you're describing.  Just to tackle your suggestion directly, they definitely won't just let you bypass Cetus content by using stockpiled resources, even though it makes sense lore-wise.  Reason being, it's simply a poor idea from a game design standpoint.  The entire concept of adding new content is to try and get players out of the monotony, that's a lot of the foundation to the Plains update.  It essentially moves to "break the mold" of standard Warframe gameplay as it were.  Which is something a lot of folks are grateful for.

 Fair enough.

4 hours ago, Bobtm said:

However I personally despise fishing with a fiery passion.  So I can fully sympathize with your overall feeling in that regard.  It's possible to look towards other solutions for this type of thing.  They could for example have special bounties from both the Fisher Lady (Hai Luk maybe, I can't recall for sure) or Old Man .... Sumbaat?  whatever.  Anyways have these bounties open up to players as they progress in their overall Ostron ranking, and give the bounties reward structuring similar to what the standard bounties have.  With higher ranked bounties having some fish bits or rock hunks that randomize about.

It would not be directly as efficient as mining or fishing is, in terms of time spent per resources gained, but would be an alternative and fair option for those who wish to avoid those activities.  As an off-set the player would also get some Ostron rep to better balance it out.  For the sake of fairness (if needed) they could possibly lock access to these bounties behind obtaining the gear needed to acquire the new items.  The fishing spears, bait, and mining lasers.  This way a player can essentially do favors for the Fishing/Mining NPCs and be rewarded for it in a reasonable manner.

 Basically, any way to farm Cetus resources while playing the actual game!

 The main reason why I made this thread at all is that we don't have a way to gain Cetus resources through the core gameplay. which is combat. I have to admit, that just straight up converting stockpiles isn't the greatest idea. But current system is just horrid. The easiest way would be to let grineer drop the resources, but that wouldn't solve the problem completely. There's a ton of various fish and different kind of resources that came out with PoE, meaning drop tables would have to be incredibly diluted. And as much as I would want to see grineer dropping huge fish on the ground upon death, it's too corky.

4 hours ago, Bobtm said:

Oh how woefully wrong this is.  Amps won't be replacing your standard weaponry for regular missions, but a properly tuned Amp can do quite a hefty amount of damage in a pinch.  It's a funny option for obscure situations. 

 I generally don't see a reason for Operators to fight enemies. Honestly, I think focus is fundamentally flawed - the very basic mechanic of switching to Operator controls is a problem there. And now we have glorified laser-pointers as weapons for the kids. Why is this even a thing? The only available function to operators and focus was supporting warframes - not fighting instead of them. Jet fighter pilots don't jump out of the cockpits of their crafts to shoot enemies with a handgun.

But putting that aside, there might be something I'm missing about focus and operators' gameplay. So I could have been willing to give it another chance if only amps and gear weren't locked behind activities that are completely detached from anything that is Warframe.

 In regards to Zaws - that's just more melee weapons. They function the same, apart from select few parts Zaws aren't any different from any other melee weapon. Ye, they could have somewhat better stats, but you can't oneshot an enemy twise, so it doesn't matter - regular melee weapons are strong enough.. Though again, if Zaws weren't locked behind fishing, I would have given them a try. 

 

 

 

Edited December 25, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[Acersecomic]

45 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

 Gosh, I can't believe you're seriously trying to drag me into a dispute about tastes. It's not a discussion whether we should have fishing in the game or not. We're talking about locking COMBAT-related gear behind this side activity. And you're talking to me about being thick. Fish as much as you like, who cares.

• Why should I be FORCED to FISH to unlock content that has absolutely nothing to do with fishing?
• Why side activities completely unrelated to the core gameplay are the only path to core gameplay content?

 Tell me.

Cuzz you're thick as a bunker wall. Everything in warframe is combat related gear. Even things that let you go into combat.
You wanna know why it's locked behind non-combat mechanics? Cuzz Ostron build that stuff out of materials around them and materials that they trade from travelers! THERE! Have your excuse! You don't like it being a new system, now dare you to not like it because of lore reasons!
"meeemeee I don't like it this, I don't like it that", you're horrible. I hope you got coal for christmas.

It's a gameplay mechanic! What do you want to build with PoE stuff?! Car paint? Carpets? Everything in this game worth building is COMBAT STUFF!
Accept diversity for gods sake and shut up or something. Stop whinning about a perfectly normal thing that sets YOU back maybe a few hours and nothing else. Jesus...

AND THEY ARE FREAKING NOT THE ONLY WAY! Trade! Trade with other players to get stuff! Some stuff will like always be locked behind playing. Well... play! Go, shoo. Go fish for a few minutes for some resources and blam! Done! You could have done everything that needed to be done with non-combat related stuff if you've spent this time doing those things instead of wasting everyone's time on the forum complaining about really nice and refreshing things in Warframe.

Edited December 25, 2017 by Acersecomic

[AperoBeltaTwo]

6 minutes ago, Acersecomic said:

Cuzz you're thick as a bunker wall.

7 minutes ago, Acersecomic said:

AND THEY ARE FREAKING NOT THE ONLY WAY! Trade! Trade with other players

I'M NOT GOING TO BUY YOUR FISH, FFS!

 

[Bobtm]

45 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Basically, any way to farm Cetus resources while playing the actual game!

Yup, having something like special bounties would work towards that end.  It makes sense too, to get rewarded from those NPCs by helping them out with resources related to their respective crafts.  While I've already tucked my head down and mindlessly shouldered through the fishing shenanigans, it'd be awesome if the system was expanded out so others don't have to do the same if they find it to be droll and anti-fun.

48 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

I generally don't see a reason for Operators to fight enemies. Honestly, I think focus is fundamentally flawed - the very basic mechanic of switching to Operator controls is a problem there. And now we have glorified laser-pointers as weapons for the kids. Why is this even a thing? The only available function to operators and focus was supporting warframes - not fighting instead of them. Jet fighter pilots don't jump out of the cockpits of their crafts to shoot enemies with a handgun.

But putting that aside, there might be something I'm missing about focus and operators' gameplay. So I could have been willing to give it another chance if only amps and gear weren't locked behind activities that are completely detached from anything that is Warframe.

Focus still has a few kinks that need ironing out for sure, as do the Amps themselves, but there are situations where they can open up extra options.  You won't see operator play realistically replacing frame play, it's more of how your combination of Amp and Focus School can give you more choice with handling a situation.  There are simple applications such as popping to Operator form the using Void Mode to hack a panel safely if you're on a squishy frame, or altering parkour chains to shortcut certain vertical tilesets via Void Dashing.

As for focus itself, having the right nodes opened up on the right trees can also give you some useful, albeit obscure, options during play.  A Naramon school user for example can have access to prompt finishers on command regardless of enemy awareness and frame choice.  Madurai users can pop a near instant Blind if needed in a pinch, again without needing a frame with that power type in their kit.  Vazarin users have easy access to the ability to heal their own frame and allies at the drop of a dash.  Unairu is superb when hopping out to res an ally, since with the right nodes all others who come to help will be invisible and highly resistant to damage while helping them up.

Basically, it just adds more flair and increased options to play, none of which are required outside of dealing with Eidolons.  Which is also a nice thing, since it gives a feeling of advancement that isn't stifling to players who may not find those options as enjoyable.

[Acersecomic]

2 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

I'M NOT GOING TO BUY YOUR FISH, FFS!

 

Why won't you buy fish from people? Because it's non-combat mechanic?

[Flustershy]

So you complain about that you need to do non combat side activities to get PoE stuff... ok ?

So whats your solution then, should we lock out all the embers from low lvl exterminate missions because she gets all the kills and everyone else just run around in the wake of burning corpses,or should mesa be locked out of defense missions because she is a 360 mobile turret of death which kills anything that comes behind spawn rooms just because the other players don't get to do combat in that mission.

And i'm actually quite suprised you wrote this thread in the first place, anyone can see that DE put huge time and effort into PoE and ofcourse they want people to spend time in this huge open area they used a lot of time and money.

The ostron and quill syndicates, mining, fishing, the 2 operations plague star and ghoul purge, all of these are just so people sink time into PoE while they prepare the next big update ''sacrifice'' cinematic quest thing.

Is there nothing wrong with this ?    No

Are you forced to fish and mine ?    No

And while we are at your mindset lets talk about teshins PvE rewards like the syandana and armor pieces and unique weapons skins for weapons which don't have skins outside of teshin's rewards which you get by doing conclave, doing conclave is wastly different that your PvE warframe experience, skills,weapons,movement,map physics all work very differently in PvP, but the thing is, you don't need to do it, it does not have anything game changing content which players will be left out if they don't grind to tier 5 of conclave.

 

Same way you don't need to mine a single ore, or catch a single fish in PoE if you so choose, you will be able to do the new quest, get the 1st amp and 150hp buff to your operator, and do all the killing you like in Plains you like without having to touch the fishing spear or mining laser, BUT!!! If you want to delve deeper to the ostrons, quills, and other [ADDITIONAL NON MANDATORY TO PLAY THE REST OF THE GAME] goodies the plains offer you, you will have to spend some time fishing and mining, just like if you want to get the extra conclave rewards you need to play conclave with its very different mechanics.

So in summary, this post makes as much sense as the people complaining about why eidolons are so hard to kill solo when its meant to be a team effort to bring one down  (power str chroma though cough cough way too easy to kill them eidolons alone) DE designed all of of the PoE content with 100% intent in a way that people will play the PoE update and keep themselfs busy until the next update comes, and that wont change no matter how many posts people do about fishing and mining.

So like everyone else has said, you don't have to mine or fish if you don't like, and IF DE staff responds to you, they will tell you exactly the same thing.

And now i will end this with a popular quote which fits this situation quite perfectly: You have a right to your opinion, but that doesn’t mean that your opinion is right.

Edited December 25, 2017 by Flustershy

[AperoBeltaTwo]

1 hour ago, Acersecomic said:

Why won't you buy fish from people? 

 Oh, now I get it! I get it why people are so pissed. At first I thought it was just a joke, but you actually don't want to lose a source of income. And my proposition would cut that option off. And I couldn't figure out why you guys were so agressive. Did I guess it right? I honestly didn't take this into considerations. Well, I don't know how to save your little business. It's your income versus making PoE worth playing. But don't worry, you're safe anyway. It's just a forum thread. Nobody reads the forums.

Edited December 26, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[Acersecomic]

33 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

 Oh, now I get it! I get it why people are so pissed. At first I thought it was just a joke, but you actually don't want to lose a source of income. And my proposition would cut that option off. And I couldn't figure out why you guys were so agressive. Did I guess it right? I honestly didn't take this into considerations. Well, I don't know how to save your little business. It's your income versus making PoE worth playing. But don't worry, you're safe anyway. It's just a forum thread. Nobody reads the forums.

No dude :P I don't sell fish :P It's a... fishy business amiright ehh ehh?

I'm afraid that business hasn't been going very well. People would rather fish the fish themselves than buy from us honest folk. I'm afraid me and my young ones, all thirty four of them will starve.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Fishing is easy. Mining is rng but easy. Why the whining over something so easy to aquire?

[AperoBeltaTwo]

2 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Fishing is easy. Mining is rng but easy. Why the whining over something so easy to aquire?

Because it's boring asf. Because I play warframe to be a space ninja. Not a fisherman.

Edited December 26, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[Acersecomic]

8 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Because it's boring asf. Because I play warframe to be a space ninja. Not a fisherman.

You can always take out your anger on the fish. Spawn some and shoot them They do die.

[DroopingPuppy]

Yeah need to fishing and mining routinely is the reason why I was abandon the plain, as well as lag. Why I have bothered to play that? I am already gathered enough lens, so that's enough. I still can't make Gara, but I am yet to thirst for some experience.

[low1991]

20 hours ago, Acersecomic said:

Name the people who want it gone.

Cuzz you know what? Fishing is a god damn hit. A lot of people ACTUALLY ENJOY FISHING IN WARFRAME!
Get it through your thick skull.

Name you names? Me, low1991.

Actually, how would this name'ing thing proof that alot of people actually enjoys fishing? There's no voting feature in forum that limits a vote to each account.

Third party voting are un-reliable. You'r name me a list of names is way worst than saying a statement with absolute no evidences at all.

[Gandergear]

Im ok with them offering a plat alternative but otherwise if you want poe crap you should have to play poe, theyve made it easier then ever

[Ventura_Highway]

On 12/26/2017 at 9:19 AM, low1991 said:

Name you names? Me, low1991.

Actually, how would this name'ing thing proof that alot of people actually enjoys fishing? There's no voting feature in forum that limits a vote to each account.

Third party voting are un-reliable. You'r name me a list of names is way worst than saying a statement with absolute no evidences at all.

I think that if someone cares enough about a problem they'll speak up about it themselves. Pretending to be the mouth of a legion of distressed and unhappy players isn't going to fly in my book.

[DiabolusUrsus]

Fishing is - as fun as it is - nothing more than a side activity that really should NOT have been integrated directly into POE progression. It is telling that Fisher Hai-Luk is listed above KONZU on the fast travel menu!

I would argue that fishing would actually be more fun if it weren't integrated so obtrusively: there would be no need to lock various fish behind baits requiring specific other fish, and no need to lock multiple tiers of spear behind Ostron standing.

If players are supposed to have fun with fishing as a relaxing alternative to blasting Grineer, why not just hand them a fishing spear when they arrive and say "we could really use some fish, would you get them for us?"

@AperoBeltaTwo:

I think a better option would be "trade POE resources for normal resources."

That way if people enjoy POE they have a reason to go there and farm extending even beyond POE, and there is no need to get into extended webs of resource exchange rates further down the line.

@everyone else:

Think critically for a moment. They are planning to add POE resources as more regular requirements in the future, and will presumably do the same with other open worldspaces in thr future.

Do you REALLY want to be forced into fishing for hours to get what you need for completely unrelated items? I really like fishing, and I don't want that.

It should be something players do when they want to, BECAUSE they want to. If it is required it quickly becomes frustrating. That hurts both fishing AND Warframe.

(The same extends to mining, etc.)

[low1991]

18 minutes ago, Ventura_Highway said:

I think that if someone cares enough about a problem they'll speak up about it themselves. Pretending to be the mouth of a legion of distressed and unhappy players isn't going to fly in my book.

A reply to a post asking for names whom are un-happy with fishing. Claims that 'alot of players are happy with it'. So i ask what kind of proof.

I'm not saying i represent the group of unhappy players, but i'm name'ing my IGN as one of those whom are unhappy.

To underline: for me, i care for the game till the point i will do the sit and watch approach. Watching as how many good or potential good suggestion ignored by DE in fixing problems. (ie focus covernance orb). For PoE, i have seen suggestion where poster suggest that ability pulls fishs or another gear that improve fishing, and not from space ninja that fly and fight in space de-grade all the way to fishing using fishing spear. No fishing net etc.

[A-Midnight-Shanking]

Buy them outright? No. Trade Starchart resources for Ostron Standing? Yes.