When was the last time DE finished content?

[Fiftycentis]

42 minutes ago, Thrymm said:

And here, one of the very first thoughts that had come to my head was, "at least nobody is calling it beta anymore"......Dang it anyway.

The game needs polish and honest updating of existing content, though, and it only becomes more apparent as they add more content.

It's very similar to a house renovation.  It might be cool and all, and there is nothing wrong with adding new rooms, but unless you "finish" a room before you go on to the next you've got nothing but an incoherent mess.  For point of reference, read of on the Winchester Mansion.  Warframe is the Winchester Mansion of gaming.  Fascinating, but in the end it'll be nothing but a weird sideshow unless it changes direction and starts aiming for polish.

someone had to say it

[13QZXXTTX]

Where the Action, asking for Polish won't happen over night. "Not Everyone is Perfect" And I would not say "Both Games are Finished Products".

Anyway, I do play Path of Exiles (Normal League) Stop around Act 4, and got some what of the Story and "Enjoy" PoE.

Just didn't appeal to me to do League every Season. I am not longer Active in 2.5 (2D ~ 3D Bird Eye View Game.

Here is a Nice Video for PoE.

Here is Video for those who doesn't know what PoE is about:

 

Here is Latest Video about Guild Problem. 

Spoiler

 

 

[MirageKnight]

5 hours ago, elpeleq42 said:

I wonder why DE can't do the same, having a 5x more popular game, in which many things are sold by real money.

The devs are working with a very dated engine that is struggling to do things it really wasn't designed for, which doesn't help.

The more problematic and important thing has to do with DE themselves: They lack focus and vision and are too concerned with finding ways to bring in even more players.

Seriously.

They can't decide if Warframe should be a dungeon crawler with careful balance and attention to lore and detail that rewards skill with truly challenging encounters and satisfying rewards...or a horde shooter that throws balance to the wind and tries to make you feel like a god warrior.

You can't have it both ways, DE: You need to pick one because your game has a big identity issue. Either way you pick DE, you're going to lose players, but going the dungeon crawler will earn you more respect from long time fans.

In addition, they keep talking about new systems - like making our "alignments" actually relevant, the whole "kingpin" thing and so on, but nothing ever happens.

Then there's all their promises to revisit existing systems to make them more relevant, enjoyable, fair, and / or less grindy - e.g. Archwing, Focus, etc...yet they keep finding ways to pile on more grind and adding things to make some systems (Archwing especially) even more irrelevant.

At the moment, Warframe is trying to offer too many things to too many types of gamers - with the inevitable clashes between players owing to different play-styles and attitudes.

Edit: There's also things that don't help Warframe,  like the new player experience, which is still not terribly intuitive and really frustrating. A player should not have to go onto a website - a wiki of all things - to get help on some fairly basic and important info. No wonder a lot of new players sign up, play for a week or two, and then never touch the game again. 

On the topic of player count...I wonder how many of those 32 million+ registered user accounts that DE likes to go on about are currently active and on a regular basis? I'm willing to bet the number of actual players, PC and console included, is a mere fraction of that.

 

Edited January 23, 2018 by MirageKnight

[Somi_xD]

vor 23 Minuten schrieb MirageKnight:

The devs are working with a very dated engine that is struggling to do things it really wasn't designed for, which doesn't help.

The more problematic and important thing has to do with DE themselves: They lack focus and vision and are too concerned with finding ways to bring in even more players.

Seriously.

They can't decide if Warframe should be a dungeon crawler with careful balance and attention to lore and detail that rewards skill with truly challenging encounters and satisfying rewards...or a horde shooter that throws balance to the wind and tries to make you feel like a god warrior.

You can't have it both ways, DE: You need to pick one because your game has a big identity issue. Either way you pick DE, you're going to lose players, but going the dungeon crawler will earn you more respect from long time fans.

In addition, they keep talking about new systems - like making our "alignments" actually relevant, the whole "kingpin" thing and so on, but nothing ever happens.

Then there's all their promises to revisit existing systems to make them more relevant, enjoyable, fair, and / or less grindy - e.g. Archwing, Focus, etc...yet they keep finding ways to pile on more grind and adding things to make some systems (Archwing especially) even more irrelevant.

At the moment, Warframe is trying to offer too many things to too many types of gamers - with the inevitable clashes between players owing to different play-styles and attitudes.

 

You can have both but that's an extrem balance act and a goal you need to aim for from the start - and even then it can pretty easy fail.
But basically you are right - Warframe has a big identity issue.
It's fine to try new things like archwing and so on, but this game is not in a early development state.
It is more of a Alpha and Beta mix (if seen in a oldschool way) but those terms got streched and split into various categories.

They currently want to balance their basic mechanics, while at the same time bring in new systems, content etc.
 

Edited January 23, 2018 by Somi_xD

[peq42]

I don't understand this need to create engines. It's stupid by all means.

 

-Makes their games more expensive

-Increase time to produce new things(Updates, fixes, new content)

-Requires a lot more developers and increases money necessary to update games

-WILL have a lot more bugs and problems

-if you're not selling the engine for other developers, it'll be a waste of time/money in the end.

 

The only advantage would be allowing to customize and extend the controll of things...But Unreal, Unity, Source 2, CryEngine,etc ALL allow that... AND ARE FREE. Some of them even allow cross-platform(Unity for example: Windows,Linux,MacOS,Iphone,Android,PS4,PS3,Wii,WiiU,Xbox360,Xbox One,PSP, you can even export for HTML5 and play on Chrome or something). WHY pay a lot more for a lot less? It is even worse on DE's case, because it's an INDIE company, which should waste that much of money and time on something so meaningless.

 

That + DE lack of focus(which is hilarious considering they are updating so many times the Focus system, without sucess) is really a terrible mix.

 

EDIT: Oh and according to wikipedia, they are not only working on warframe but on other games, using this old engine. What a good idea to make high quality games: Trying to make many at the same time.

 

Edited January 23, 2018 by elpeleq42

[Fallen_Echo]

7 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

The devs are working with a very dated engine that is struggling to do things it really wasn't designed for, which doesn't help.

The more problematic and important thing has to do with DE themselves: They lack focus and vision and are too concerned with finding ways to bring in even more players.

Seriously.

They can't decide if Warframe should be a dungeon crawler with careful balance and attention to lore and detail that rewards skill with truly challenging encounters and satisfying rewards...or a horde shooter that throws balance to the wind and tries to make you feel like a god warrior.

You can't have it both ways, DE: You need to pick one because your game has a big identity issue. Either way you pick DE, you're going to lose players, but going the dungeon crawler will earn you more respect from long time fans.

In addition, they keep talking about new systems - like making our "alignments" actually relevant, the whole "kingpin" thing and so on, but nothing ever happens.

Then there's all their promises to revisit existing systems to make them more relevant, enjoyable, fair, and / or less grindy - e.g. Archwing, Focus, etc...yet they keep finding ways to pile on more grind and adding things to make some systems (Archwing especially) even more irrelevant.

At the moment, Warframe is trying to offer too many things to too many types of gamers - with the inevitable clashes between players owing to different play-styles and attitudes.

Edit: There's also things that don't help Warframe,  like the new player experience, which is still not terribly intuitive and really frustrating. A player should not have to go onto a website - a wiki of all things - to get help on some fairly basic and important info. No wonder a lot of new players sign up, play for a week or two, and then never touch the game again. 

On the topic of player count...I wonder how many of those 32 million+ registered user accounts that DE likes to go on about are currently active and on a regular basis? I'm willing to bet the number of actual players, PC and console included, is a mere fraction of that.

 

Dungeon crawler rpg, tactical shooter, horde shooter, soo many different things they try to fit in.

The best would be currently if they go with a slightly tactical horde shooter (you know the ones where you mass murder brainless grunts but need actual strategy to deal with the heavies, the nox for example fits in this) with rpg elements and precise lore. I think they would lose most of the playerbase if they go with a true dungeon crawler experience but the tactical horde shooter would equally please everyone (or atleast most people).

As someone said upper they are constantly trying to reinvent the wheel using outdated mechanics to make the game interesting while also piling up more pointless content.

For example the modding system, its one of the most important core aspect of the game and yet i think im pretty close to the truth when i say 80% of the mods are unused because they are trash. Many suggestions come and go (introduce weapon exilus, set mod slot, etc...) but nothing happens we just get more and more mods without thinking.

Same with everything else, PoE would be a great way to introduce archwing into the general gameplay finally and what we got? Biodiesel fuelled (fishgut) archwing system with the physical integrity of a 2000 year old parachment with a control system whats worse than base archwinh controls.

[LuckyCharm]

It already feels like most of the "core" of the game is complete now, while massively lacking polish in some areas. And many areas need reworks 2.0/3.0 to improve. I would rather see more of the base game getting work than more landscapes that my PC struggles to run. 

List of things I'd still like changes for :

-focus gain acquisition changes

-gara ulti numbers

-volts ulti numbers

-archwing movement

-PoE archwing changes

-melee stance mods (some of these haven't had new stances since stances were released and feel very lacking) 

-Melee combos "holds" and "pauses" really need to be changed to something else to make the combat more fluid at higher attack speeds

-damage and enemy scaling

-eidolon hunting for solo players

-lesser used and broken warframe skills and cast speeds (especially titanias cast speeds, and nezha's ring toss)

 

[MirageKnight]

9 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

yet i think im pretty close to the truth when i say 80% of the mods are unused because they are trash.

Warm Coat anyone?

But seriously, this comment is pretty close to the truth. With regard to mods like Flame Repellant, Warm Coat and such, why even equip the thing if there's only a very slight chance that it might be useful?

DE, if you want mods that negate certain types of elemental damage to be useful - other than as just sources of free endo and credits - I'd suggest you throw in advertised conditions for missions where you'd actually consider using one of these mods... "Reduced shields in areas due to extreme cold" or "Fire hazards scattered throughout level"...and actually have those conditions in there so that the mod serves a purpose.

If I was going to run a mission and saw a notice reading "Has x hazards", yes I'm going to slot a mod that's going to help negate the effects of x hazards." But if I don't get a warning, I'm not going to slot one of those mods...because it's going to be more or less useless and I want something useful occupying a mod slot.

[Fallen_Echo]

8 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

Warm Coat anyone?

But seriously, this comment is pretty close to the truth. With regard to mods like Flame Repellant, Warm Coat and such, why even equip the thing if there's only a very slight chance that it might be useful?

DE, if you want mods that negate certain types of elemental damage to be useful - other than as just sources of free endo and credits - I'd suggest you throw in advertised conditions for missions where you'd actually consider using one of these mods... "Reduced shields in areas due to extreme cold" or "Fire hazards scattered throughout level"...and actually have those conditions in there so that the mod serves a purpose.

If I was going to run a mission and saw a notice reading "Has x hazards", yes I'm going to slot a mod that's going to help negate the effects of x hazards." But if I don't get a warning, I'm not going to slot one of those mods...because it's going to be more or less useless and I want something useful occupying a mod slot.

Even then these mods are pretty much useless compared to.....well.....everything else.

We need atleast 3 exilus mod slot for every weapon and frame. Each of them limited to a very specific way of altering a weapons stats.

For example:

Primary weapons should come with an utility (ammo,magsize,mutation,augement), dps (firerate, reload, specials) and a set slot. Unless the choosen weapon has augement or special mods what directly increase damage,multishot,status or crit numbers these shouldnt break the game and each slot could be unlocked with a forma.

Frames should come with an augement/defense slot (augements, elemental resistances, action recovery), a drift slot (for every drift and parkour related mod) and finally a set mod slot.

You would no longer have to think that you drop X augment because its just not good enough to be take up mod place.

[Drasiel]

23 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

No. Warframe is NOT IN BETA.

You don't get to add a cash shop, REMOVE ALL REFERENCE to beta from Steam AND YOUR OWN SITE and EULA...

...And then try to go back to the Beta excuse when you start hearing much deserved criticism. 

This game is a fully released product. That's a FACT and dubious claims to the contrary neither change it, nor excuse poor, schizophrenic design decisions made to chase popular trends.

When you load up Warframe for the very first time you are forced to sign an open beta agreement. Maybe you have forgotten this. 

[BlackCoMerc]

57 minutes ago, Drasiel said:

When you load up Warframe for the very first time you are forced to sign an open beta agreement. Maybe you have forgotten this. 

Maybe you have forgotten that, for YEARS, there was no notice of Open Beta in that agreement. Nor any disclosure on Steam, the website or anywhere else.

That was added BACK IN when Warframe began taking flak from the games media who revisited the game "now it was released" as a platinum shield against said criticism. Unfortunately, a whole slew of gamers bought the ruse hook, line and sinker.

[Fallen_Echo]

11 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Maybe you have forgotten that, for YEARS, there was no notice of Open Beta in that agreement. Nor any disclosure on Steam, the website or anywhere else.

That was added BACK IN when Warframe began taking flak from the games media who revisited the game "now it was released" as a platinum shield against said criticism. Unfortunately, a whole slew of gamers bought the ruse hook, line and sinker.

Its not like being in Beta is a legit argument anymore, we have early access games selling for AAA prices and such. Beta is no longer an excuse for bugs.

[(PSN)shadowraith_666]

This game isn't Beta, there are full MMO's that you have to buy to play that are going through the same development process as WF does, such as content being added or removed, mechanics added/removed/tweaked and microtransactions.

[artemisfortune]

On 1/23/2018 at 11:59 AM, (PS4)SageHeed said:

Indeed painters like Leonardo da Vinci were payed periodically as they worked on commissions. And yes, Warframe isn't a finished product. It's not supposed to be. It's a work in progress that develops over time and that is part of what makes it interesting. Destiny is a finished product.

This isn't the 1500s anymore.

[Drasiel]

8 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Maybe you have forgotten that, for YEARS, there was no notice of Open Beta in that agreement. Nor any disclosure on Steam, the website or anywhere else.

That was added BACK IN when Warframe began taking flak from the games media who revisited the game "now it was released" as a platinum shield against said criticism. Unfortunately, a whole slew of gamers bought the ruse hook, line and sinker.

One year actually. There was one year where if you created a new account it wouldn't pop up with it. Should have been right before the parkour overhaul. Could have been a bug for all we know. Who would report a missing beta agreement afterall. The game is in beta still and it informs new players. *shrug* Look at path of exile. It was in open beta for about 3 years at minimum with a fully functional cash shop and microtransactions and only officially launched with the completion and addition of the 3rd act. Beta for a standalone triple A game and for free to play seem to work very differently for each other.

[marelooke]

On 23/01/2018 at 11:49 PM, elpeleq42 said:

I don't understand this need to create engines. It's stupid by all means.

 

-Makes their games more expensive

-Increase time to produce new things(Updates, fixes, new content)

-Requires a lot more developers and increases money necessary to update games

-WILL have a lot more bugs and problems

-if you're not selling the engine for other developers, it'll be a waste of time/money in the end.

 

The only advantage would be allowing to customize and extend the controll of things...But Unreal, Unity, Source 2, CryEngine,etc ALL allow that... AND ARE FREE. Some of them even allow cross-platform(Unity for example: Windows,Linux,MacOS,Iphone,Android,PS4,PS3,Wii,WiiU,Xbox360,Xbox One,PSP, you can even export for HTML5 and play on Chrome or something). WHY pay a lot more for a lot less? It is even worse on DE's case, because it's an INDIE company, which should waste that much of money and time on something so meaningless.

 

That + DE lack of focus(which is hilarious considering they are updating so many times the Focus system, without sucess) is really a terrible mix.

 

EDIT: Oh and according to wikipedia, they are not only working on warframe but on other games, using this old engine. What a good idea to make high quality games: Trying to make many at the same time.

 

Engine licensing isn't free. Also all of those engines are closed source, so modifying is a lot harder than when you own all of the engine code. Moreover none of those engines were meant for a P2P game so retrofitting that into something not built for it could have turned out quite painful. Just look at ME: Andromeda to see the disaster you create when forcing something into an engine not suited for it.

No, the engine isn't the problem. The lack of focus and the inability to admit mistakes and then just fix them instead of ignoring them for possibly years and letting them grow into epic proportions (Corpus bubbleboys, vacuum, Infested Ancients,...all come to mind). There's still loads of things utterly broken in the game (weapon and enemy scaling, reliance on cheap tricks to create difficulty, like damage bypassing shields, energy drain, enemy invulnerability or un/barely dodgeable CC like infested hooks) or just literally bugged to hell (Defection missions), moreover each time they add something they "break" something else (addition of new endless mission types and Void destruction made Survival a pretty bad game type, rewards wise) or paint themselves further into a corner (Riven mods pretty much preclude any sane weapon rebalancing, for example).

And now this open world stuff. It might be all the rage, but it's not what I play this game for and while they're dinking around with this the rest of the game suffers. Them trying to force it onto me by taking stuff I had away and locking it behind PoE didn't score them any points either (Focus). Moreover the Star Map definitely feels a whole lot emptier since PoE release, doing low level endless missions I'll be lucky to find a full squad let alone a squad of more experienced players that want to go for any amount of time. This wasn't a problem like 6 months ago. Guess everybody is out on the plains, fishing.

(I'm not passing judgement on PoE here, btw. It might actually be good and I'll get around to messing with it more in depth sooner or later.)

Edited January 25, 2018 by marelooke

[Fallen_Echo]

3 hours ago, marelooke said:

(I'm not passing judgement on PoE here, btw. It might actually be good and I'll get around to messing with it more in depth sooner or later.)

Poe is just as empty as the rest of the starmap (content wise).

We have max 6 npcs and a big map with nothing to do. Incursions and bounties are all the same as starmap missions just longer, the map is big but feels empty theres no reason to explore and such.

On the top of all the open world aspect puts spotlight on the faulty enemy AI and programming like endless cone vision, absurd aiming capacity, hivemind effect, etc...

It does look like a very first attempt of an open world map but knowing DE it will stay like this for the next 1 year atleast.

[marelooke]

6 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Poe is just as empty as the rest of the starmap (content wise).

We have max 6 npcs and a big map with nothing to do. Incursions and bounties are all the same as starmap missions just longer, the map is big but feels empty theres no reason to explore and such.

On the top of all the open world aspect puts spotlight on the faulty enemy AI and programming like endless cone vision, absurd aiming capacity, hivemind effect, etc...

It does look like a very first attempt of an open world map but knowing DE it will stay like this for the next 1 year atleast.

Let's hope it doesn't get the Archwing treatment: revisited once (I liked the Archwing update, fixed some of the big issues, unfortunately there's still a long list of others), then abandoned again.

[BlackCoMerc]

11 hours ago, Drasiel said:

One year actually. There was one year where if you created a new account it wouldn't pop up with it. Should have been right before the parkour overhaul. Could have been a bug for all we know. Who would report a missing beta agreement afterall. The game is in beta still and it informs new players. *shrug* Look at path of exile. It was in open beta for about 3 years at minimum with a fully functional cash shop and microtransactions and only officially launched with the completion and addition of the 3rd act. Beta for a standalone triple A game and for free to play seem to work very differently for each other.

No. It is NOT in Beta. 

You said yourself: one year with zero disclosure. You dont get to go BACK into Beta to avoid deserved criticism. Thats a cowardly move anyway.

[BlackCoMerc]

7 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Poe is just as empty as the rest of the starmap (content wise).

We have max 6 npcs and a big map with nothing to do. Incursions and bounties are all the same as starmap missions just longer, the map is big but feels empty theres no reason to explore and such.

On the top of all the open world aspect puts spotlight on the faulty enemy AI and programming like endless cone vision, absurd aiming capacity, hivemind effect, etc...

It does look like a very first attempt of an open world map but knowing DE it will stay like this for the next 1 year atleast.

Well said. 

Trying to come back to this from Wildlands is...well, i feel bad for DE. Granted, they werent trying for something that immersive, but still...after Wildlands, PoE is so disappointing its hard to even bother.

[Volinus7]

Meanwhile someone enjoys watching sheeple dance on that flaming tower... 

[Fallen_Echo]

1 hour ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Well said. 

Trying to come back to this from Wildlands is...well, i feel bad for DE. Granted, they werent trying for something that immersive, but still...after Wildlands, PoE is so disappointing its hard to even bother.

Imagine how i feel after finishing the Witcher 3 and then go into Poe to see a guy slicing his fingers and the air in cetus or when i run through a big [redacted] cave only to find some creds and the most common area mobs.

[BlackCoMerc]

Just now, Fallen_Echo said:

Imagine how i feel after finishing the Witcher 3 and then go into Poe to see a guy slicing his fingers and the air in cetus or when i run through a big [redacted] cave only to find some creds and the most common area mobs.

I KNOW how you feel. I finished Witcher 3 as well. 

Dont get me wrong. I didnt expect Witcher 3 or even Wildlands levels of immersion from Warframe.

But I did expect something more than a big mission tile without walls. Where the infinite cone vision, scaling-to-100% accuracy and infinite aggro range just MIGHT be fixed. Where exploration would be rewarded (with more than a Fish decoration). Where some since of life might exist.

Instead, we got another mission tile. Complete with yet more mission rotation rewards. Mostly based on Defense and Escort missions. AGAIN. Without a shred of purpose for exploration...

Honestly, why bother? Those bounty missions would fit on any Earth, Mars or other outdoor tileset. So...why go to the trouble of PoE? You dont reward exploring. You use it only to contain tiny little mission areas. We are watching a rookie development process make all the same mistakes open world games made ten or more years ago, all over again, for no valid reason.

[Drasiel]

3 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

No. It is NOT in Beta. 

You said yourself: one year with zero disclosure. You dont get to go BACK into Beta to avoid deserved criticism. Thats a cowardly move anyway.

And if it was a launcher bug that prevented that from showing which only affects new players who wouldn't know it existed in the first place? If there is no one to report a bug will it ever get fixed in a timely manner?

You are either very angry or very passionate about this, but you don't actually know the reasons the beta agreement vanished, and you don't actually know the reason it came back. Neither do I, but you are spreading opinion as fact without being open to the idea that it isn't all a sinister and malevolent plot. Perhaps have a glass of water and step back a bit as discussion with you on this topic will only end up in cyclic pattern with no positive to be gained from it for anybody.

[Fallen_Echo]

3 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

I KNOW how you feel. I finished Witcher 3 as well. 

Dont get me wrong. I didnt expect Witcher 3 or even Wildlands levels of immersion from Warframe.

But I did expect something more than a big mission tile without walls. Where the infinite cone vision, scaling-to-100% accuracy and infinite aggro range just MIGHT be fixed. Where exploration would be rewarded (with more than a Fish decoration). Where some since of life might exist.

Instead, we got another mission tile. Complete with yet more mission rotation rewards. Mostly based on Defense and Escort missions. AGAIN. Without a shred of purpose for exploration...

Honestly, why bother? Those bounty missions would fit on any Earth, Mars or other outdoor tileset. So...why go to the trouble of PoE? You dont reward exploring. You use it only to contain tiny little mission areas. We are watching a rookie development process make all the same mistakes open world games made ten or more years ago, all over again, for no valid reason.

The least one i expected from the openworld map is to have atleast as many content as the very first open world titles. The least minimum i wanted is the GTA 3 feeling where while there was not many reason to explore the whole city you did it anyway because it was fun.

Currently whenever i look around in PoE i have to say "Why bother?" every time i think X place looks slightly interesting. I know im gonna see the same yellowish area there, the same mobs and the same items.