Dev Workshop: Warframes Revisited

[Ocerkin]

9 minutes ago, Vogue said:

buff or nerf is a matter of perspective, I do not agree with always buff, what happens then? the game is unbalanced because the enemies are too weak, so they need a buff, and you keep going until it makes no sense anymore.

 

I don't see Ember and Banshee adjustments as a nerf, they are an adjustments to allow other players in the party to play a role as well, and as it was pointed out in the Dev stream, Ember change makes it so her World on Fire does more damage at a shorter range, which is makes her more viable for high level fights where she can't just one shot everything miles away.

 

its completely a nerf, up close and personal is a BAD plan for a squishy caster frame, its what you are meant to PREVENT doing

[Ray_Storm]

That's changes will be very interesting and funny to take a new control and synergy of warframe abilities. Thanks for your hard work DE team.

[steelblueskies]

2 hours ago, taiiat said:

 

• what about Flash Accelerant? this Augment is a mandatory Mod because of the self buffs it applies. not having this Augment Equipped is literally just 'a wrong build'.
  • this Augment exponentially increases the Damage of everything Ember does. Digital Extremes says all the time that mandatory Mods are bad, and this is one of the worst.

flash accelerant: 

from the wiki:

"

• Will Not add damage to World On Fire."

so statement retraction or unlisted bug report?

it also doesn't enhance but doesn't bar the debuff from the ability it applies via. which leaves equipped weapons so long as they don't have single elementals it can combine with(which won't benefit from accelerants debuff anymore), fireball which is singletarget functionally and thus a joke efficiency wise(like channeling for DAMAGE versus its energy cost at 5/hit grade joke) and fire blast which is either applied onto enemies, or will be avoided or stood outside at chokepoints by 3/4ths of the "faction" types generally.

 

or were you meaning something else? usually even if i don't agree, even vehemently you do a far better job of argumentation than this one.. you okay?

[Nephalem]

As an Ember main (245k) kills i personaly don't mind with the scalling of WoF but for the love of god remove that RANGE handicap.That will literaly kill ember.I main her becouse i find it fun to play and i usualy solo but with such a nerf i feel like dropping out of the game.Instead of buffing/changeing fire ball and fire blast you are nerfing one of the best low lvl farming frames...Gj DE,simply Gj.Its not like it was bad enought that the vaulted relics are going to the bountis forcing us to go in the plains...but now this?Makes me wonder if i should invest more time in the game..

Edited February 2, 2018 by NephalemUnlimited

[Jabett]

37 minutes ago, Sziklamester said:

Some of the mentioned changes sounds on paper okay but for example the Atlas and making his abilities synergize around the petrify which was the least used ability and it was weak and slow. Instead of keeping it it would be nice if that ability was removed from him and preserved for a medusa frame and readd in a better form and give atlas instead a brawling ability too. The survivability is highly depend on the mobility so on paper the Chroma and Atlas move restrictions removal looks fine and we see that how it will works.

Atlas can petrify with his landslide augment (path of statues) and with his newly tweaked 4, so actually there's 3 ways he can play and get rubble 

[Testiculitis]

3 minutes ago, DeltaPangaea said:

You're saying to buff the Teralyst you goon, that's directly making it harder for everyone who isn't Chroma with his stupid damage multiplier. You know people DO hunt Teralysts without Chroma, right? He's not omnipresent, nor SHOULD he be.

What they really need to do is just fix the current combined elemental damage calculation on Chroma. For some reason it scales horribly wrong, while other damage types seem fine to me.

[Vogue]

1 minute ago, Ocerkin said:

its completely a nerf, up close and personal is a BAD plan for a squishy caster frame, its what you are meant to PREVENT doing

 

I wonder how I survived so long doing content as Nova, Sorties included, you know Nova stats are lower than Ember, right? killing everything before they even get in line of sight, isn't a way to survive. And for high level content, you need a party for, maybe start making balanced parties that include defensive type warframes, shields, etc, rather than just Ember and some other out of sight killers/CCers.

[-Shavo-]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb Vogue:

I actualy have done multiple Sorties, I haven't tried the Raid yet. In none of my Sortie with friends, we have needed Banshee or Ember to be able to complete it. I do know Ember at high level does no damage with her WoF, but, will this new adjustment mean she will be able to? will the double damage truly make a difference.

Maybe people should try other warframes rather than stick to one, and just one alone.

You never see those  Warframes because Banshee is unpopular (but her sonar is op) and ember lacks everything.

WoF deals at level 120 Bombards lets say 20 damage with a good damage build, well doubled damage means 40 damage. That is nothing you will need now 5 minutes instead of 10 to kill him :D

Trying other Warframes? I have done. Actually sitting at MR21 and found some Warframes i realy love. Ember is one of them. She was my second Warframe after my excal who was my starter in the beta. I played her the most and she got several nerfs but this one is way too much.

Edited February 2, 2018 by Yamichi

[Testiculitis]

1 minute ago, Vogue said:

 

I wonder how I survived so long doing content as Nova, Sorties included, you know Nova stats are lower than Ember, right? killing everything before they even get in line of sight, isn't a way to survive. And for high level content, you need a party for, maybe start making balanced parties that include defensive type warframes, shields, etc, rather than just Ember and some other out of sight killers/CCers.

Except Nova can get up to 90% damage reduction on health with Null Star...

[Guppy47]

I like most of what I see, except for the Ember changes. Essentially it is doubling the damage and halving the range. The reasoning behind this is so that Ember's won't be able to run rampant through low level missions killing everything without effort, which makes complete sense. However I don't think those changes will really affect her at all. Overextended for example almost completely negates those changes all by itself. 

I think that the best way to fix her World on Fire is to take the base damage down to something like 50, but also add a %of the enemies CURRENT HEALTH. This will prevent World on Fire from destroying everything that is a low level, while also giving it a lot more power against higher level enemies.

As a bonus thing, maybe buff Fireball to something similar. Perhaps let it do a %of an enemies TOTAL HEALTH. 

[MunsuLight]

I'm OK with all the changes.. Except the Ember one.. Like seriously.. The more Energy consumption .. i could go with that..  But Reducing The Range is literally gonna kill her in higher level mission because CC was the only thing she could do in higher level since the damage is negligible..  

And what is funny, is that they nerf her 4 when Equinox can do the same and even worse in some cases.. Because his damage scales .. and with 4 CP it's not even funny what he/she can do.. Sometimes.. I'm not sure the people balancing this game are playing the game the same.. 

and IMO every frame are able to steamroll lower content..

Edited February 2, 2018 by MunsuLight

[CuteFoxyFox]

Ash - Personally I didn't liked the reworked version of he's Blade Storm and I liked original one, I wasn't mad at cinematic enemy killing. But this version is really smart and awesome! Genius idea that connects both playstyles. Great work.

Atlas - Personally I didn't liked he's golems and I still don't like them. I would prefer something like Rhino's stomp rather than two guys running around. But still coneccting he's skills to make a whole is a good idea. Armor and Health regen for melee frame is a good idea. Buffing your skills with third skill is cool to. The only thing I would like to have - make golems work like Nekros's shadows. If we can heal them now and we don't need make other skills stay longer it would be cool.

Banshee - yes, YES, YESSSSSS. Give a choice to the players like with nyx. Great idea! Love the change.

Chroma - I always wanted to use my 1 skill more and now I can. Also scalling stuff etc. nice. Numbers are important too!

Ember - In my opinion this change should be an augment. Well sometimes when I'm on boring farming it's good to go afk with world of fire on :P

Gara - Love, love, love it. It was so boring for me seeing my wall being shot down so fast.

Mag - As a mag main. I didn't expected any changes for her simply becouse I consider her enough strong but i'll gladly take the changes. Helping new players and more energy is really a cool thing. Dmg is also good. Now I would like to let us move during mags 4. Casting time is sooooooo long, so please.

Volt - Im not much into him so I can't say much. But I will stay with "More damge is always usefull" :). I tried playing volt before tweaks and wanted to play him but he was not fun for me. After changes he is fun for me (personally) and more dmg? sure!

 

Zephyr... my lovely frame. Bird that I loved from the start. I always mained Zephyr and will always main her. Im so glad to see the changes I wanted so long. So as a player that played her for a looong time I see changes are going into good direction.

1. Do not replace passive. Low gravity might not be usefull but fun! That's passive kept me with Zephyr.

2. I would like to add an efect if you slam into enemy. Maybe finisher? Creating small tornado? CCing?

3. I would like to see new ability and hope augment will give us a chance to mess with a build etc.

4. Turbulence, not changed - that's good. It's a good skill.

5. Ult... better control, status dmg, 100% dmg convertion. Dreams can come true sometimes :)

Augments:

- As stated in first point. Maybe add augment to Zephyr's 1 skill to give her a finisher?

- Please make augment for the new ability something we can mess with. Make interesting builds etc.

- Turbulence augment is nice. It's only my wet dream but I would like an Augment when i can recast it to deal dmg and cc enemies. Like with rhino's skin ^_^

- Funnel clouds - How will it work? If tornadoes won't deal enough dmg this one will be useless. Make a good scalling. Dont make it “anything under level 30”.

 

Thank you for reading. Hope my feedback will be seen :)

*sorry for any mistakes in my spellings. My english isn't perfect but i try ^_^

[Medrikath]

il y a 6 minutes, DeltaPangaea a dit :

You're saying to buff the Teralyst you goon, that's directly making it harder for everyone who isn't Chroma with his stupid damage multiplier. You know people DO hunt Teralysts without Chroma, right? He's not omnipresent, nor SHOULD he be.

Oh man, just do some researches on Youtube and you will find people killing the teralyst without using Chroma. Also , i am talking about the change on Vex Armor being now an aura (not about the actual damage nerf you big dummy: which means that buffing the teralyst will also make it harder for chroma to hunt it...)

[Ocerkin]

1 minute ago, Vogue said:

 

I wonder how I survived so long doing content as Nova, Sorties included, you know Nova stats are lower than Ember, right? killing everything before they even get in line of sight, isn't a way to survive. And for high level content, you need a party for, maybe start making balanced parties that include defensive type warframes, shields, etc, rather than just Ember and some other out of sight killers/CCers.

you make me giggle, nova weaker than ember? you are funny... mprime, run circles around the entire damn map, antimatter drop and everything dies

[greiff]

My main concern is Ember.

Her survivability is not high to begin with, but thanks to WoF (with range/strength build, even on higher level content such as Sortie etc...) she can at least CC mob (fire makes them crazy and drop their S#&$.....) before she get close, and clean them off. With the new change/nerf/adjustment not only she will run out of power faster than anyone else, she cant really affect mob from certain distance, and before she get close, she is dead......

As mentioned she was a serious dmg caster, but with this new change she will definitely become a glass cannon that cant hit far...... like a dead Penta.....

I understand her WoF might need a look at, but i dont think this is the right direction?

Just a thought:

- If "press 4 and forget" is the main concern that require another look at, perhaps try something similar to Volt's new change: as it goes further away from the frame, the dmg reduce instead of range shrinking, and the "flare" duration shorten, that way it still provide the CC it needs, but address some of the issue of "too easy to run..."?

- If we stick with the timer, then i would suggest another addition to WoF: As the percentage goes up to 100% in 10 sec, her range shrink, but every mob affected by WoF will give her armor/shield/over shield to compensate the shrinkage of range. If higher level content is also the purpose for the tweak of WoF, this should address it nicely by making her do more dmg, but also much more survivable with higher level boss etc....

That is all, for now :)

Cheers and keep up the good work guys!

*Oh and do feel free to use my Ember build for testing :D

 

Edited February 2, 2018 by greiff

[Leqesai]

I for one am really digging all of the proposed changes.

 

With the appropriate builds ember will be dealing some great close range damage. I roll with a max range build that can get to around 1200 damage per tick. Make that 2400 damage per tick at half the range? Devastating. Especially when you consider how the ability actually functions. It hits random targets in range so max range builds suffer from hitting too many unimportant targets. Especially if you are melee oriented.

 

Chroma fix is great. No frame should be that powerful. The people saying bring content up to his level are dillusional. That would mean a balance pass to the whole game to cater to the minmax exploiters. 

 

I'm also really interested in the changes to zephyr and atlas. I have loved these frames for a long time and the fixes address exactly what i found to be problematic with their playstyles. Petrify builds have always been fun but because of how it shuts you down for other abilities it doesn't really have preference over landslide.

Zephyr tailwind change is fantastic. The new move boosting tornado is also really cool. Being able to kill enemies affected by tornado by shooting the tornado instead of the enemies is an awesome change. Brings zephyr up a bunch of notches, easily.

[Vogue]

Just now, Yamichi said:

You never see those  Warframes because Banshee is unpopular (but her sonar is op) and ember lacks everything.

WoF deals at level 120 Bombards lets say 20 damage with a good damage build, well doubled damage means 40 damage. That is nothing you will need now 5 minutes instead of 10 to kill him :D

You said some posts above that Ember was used for her CC, so what is, is she or not? She does nothing to Bombards because fire damage is irrelevant against them, use the right frames for the right enemies, this is why you are allowed to have every frame in the game.

 

Do people event try to adjust their warframes and weapons anymore? they give us the tools to do the content, just use them, stop playing one warframe because it can do it all.

[CuteFoxyFox]

Just now, MunsuLight said:

I'm OK with all the changes.. Except the Ember one.. Like seriously.. The more Energy consumption .. i could go with that.. But Reducing The Range is literally gonna kill her in higher level mission because CC was the only thing she could do in higher level since the damage is negligible..  

And what is funny, is that they nerf her 4 when Equinox can do the same and even worse in some cases.. Sometimes.. I'm not sure the people balancing this game are playing the game the same.. But whatever

I agree. Make the change an augment, not her normal skill.

[Vogue]

1 minute ago, Ocerkin said:

you make me giggle, nova weaker than ember? you are funny... mprime, run circles around the entire damn map, antimatter drop and everything dies

talking of being squishy, read everything, not just one word, thanks.

Edited February 2, 2018 by Vogue

[KaZeR01]

I have to admit to EDYinnit. It's a nerf and a strong one aswell. She isn't an option for high level groups (100+) and never was. Her dmg starts to be to low at a certain point and now its not continous aswell with lower range, where she should be more effective. Even with the 200% dmg buff you got the problem that you need to wait 10 secounds for it and as a glas canon this is a long time. Furthermore, you need to go as such in a closer combat fight, which wouldnt be my favorite solution with Ember. In my opinion there is now a lack of use for ember. She was extremly efficient with low level mobs (40 and beneath), so basically a frame for grind missions, which you want to do as fast as possible and with this change she is losing this use, cause there is no difference in one shotting mobs with 100% or 200%.

[ADDgamer45]

2 minutes ago, MunsuLight said:

I'm OK with all the changes.. Except the Ember one.. Like seriously.. The more Energy consumption .. i could go with that.. But Reducing The Range is literally gonna kill her in higher level mission because CC was the only thing she could do in higher level since the damage is negligible..  

And what is funny, is that they nerf her 4 when Equinox can do the same and even worse in some cases.. Sometimes.. I'm not sure the people balancing this game are playing the game the same.. But whatever

They need to figure out how to get ember into the late game. Not out of the early game. 

[Autongnosis]

To be honest i like all of the changes save for two things:

The Ember change seems really uninspired. I don't know how to solve the problem but less range for more damage is not what she needed at all imo. The nerf for too fast clearance is somewhat justified but maybe there should be something else coming as well, some help for survivability maybe? Some kit sinergy other than damage, damage and more damage where WoF does more than any of them at a more efficient rate... 

The other is Mag's Crush change which imo chwnges nothing about the ability and also steps on the toes of Polarise's augment. 

 

Other than those the rest looks really interesting and I'm looking forward to trying it ingame.

[Wicker-G041]

I'd recommend increasing Vex Armor's duration by at least 50% tho, so we don't need Narrow Minded and have an actual support build

[MunsuLight]

il y a 1 minute, ADDgamer45 a dit :

They need to figure out how to get ember into the late game. Not out of the early game. 

I dont even think the changes gonna change something for Early game.. The worst thing that could happen is when your range become too low.. Untoggle.. Retoggle it.. and Bam.. You are at the same point.. 

But that change is litterally killing her endgame.. 

[Ocerkin]

4 minutes ago, Vogue said:

talking of being squishy, read everything, not just one word, thanks.

you were trying to equate nova to ember, when nova has a MASSIVE range crowd control power that makes her incredibly strong