Dev Workshop: Warframes Revisited

[Xeryla]

I don't know how that chroma's vex armor adjustments will go, sure they made it as it was supposed to be (took them long enough :) ) but if the reason for that adjustment is to prevent players from one-shotting eidolons, that's a mistake. Rhino's roar can buff the whole team and every one in the team has the potential to 1 to 2 shot an eidolon limbs if done right.
lastly, if the vex armor has a base range for the team buff (which I know it will happen) , I'm pretty sure that will be 95% useless, why? most of the chroma builds are using narrow minded. (+duration -range for those who doesn't know that mod)
ever played with a chroma with a narrow minded before? imagine you want to suck on that elemental ward and you rush to chroma and you benefit from the buff, you're like "yay I got good buff" and chroma rolled once away from you or you rolled once away from chroma, the buff is gone right? now imagine that with vex armor buff, trust me that will suck. UNLESS, they will make that range as an affinity range (like trinity's bless) and not create an augment like everlasting ward again after 2-3 months of that adjust release date.
sure players can build for a range chroma, but the buffs will not be long/strong enough, but that's just a reason so players can say i'm a support frame

[Shadedraxe]

I honestly don’t care too much about Chroma’s range for his 2 or 3 being bad. I care a lot more about his 1 and 4 being worth using. I don’t use vex armor Chroma for being supportive, I use him to tank and deal damage. Now if his 1 and 4 gained supportive uses, I wouldn’t mind that.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Shadedraxe

[malekas]

7 minutes ago, schilds said:

Her problem end-game is staying alive, not damage.

IF you bring certain weapons to use with one of her abilities. Hence, my problem with Magnetize. 

 

I don't deny that Magnetize can deal ridiculous damage. I can take my Mara Detron as my only weapon and out damage a Mesa on a sortie. But what if I don't want to use the Mara Detron (or one of the other weapons that work with Magnetize)? Too bad, I'm Mag so I'm forced to use certain weapons or Magnetize will be gimped. 

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

I love the changes as a whole! Great job guys! The quake augment sounds similar to a ember fireblast ring... Plz make its duration scale with duration mods!

Chroma vex armor buffin the whole team, awsome! Couple him with rhino and u got a couple of high tier thugs wrecking shop! 

Also, will Mag crush ability scale?

[Spell]

After major nerfs of my favorite stuff - Tonkor, Simulor, Valkyr, now Ember - I barely play anymore, let alone buy plat.

After watching DE's work I'm not even sure what is worse - when devs think money are more important than gameplay *cough*EA*cough* - or PvE "balance" is more important than game's popularity and sales?

[BlackMonark]

1 minute ago, Spell said:

After major nerfs of my favorite stuff - Tonkor, Simulor, Valkyr, now Ember - I barely play anymore, let alone buy plat.

After watching DE's work I'm not even sure what is worse - when devs think money are more important than gameplay *cough*EA*cough* - or PvE "balance" is more important than game's popularity and sales?

Almost like the Tonkor and Simulor were broken as F*** once upon a time, and Valkyr was way too good. So I think they deserved the nerfs. Ember though? Not at all.

[VencirGan]

As an Atlas main, I highly dislike these changes. I kind of expected a much simpler rework that would fix his problems in late game content, his survivability/utility mainly. I was so excited for the rework, but I woke up this morning kind of sad when my friend explained to me what the rework was.

Rubble: 75 armor per stack, based on duration and I assume it heals 25 per rubble on the ground. The problem with not all of the numbers out there I have a lot of problems with this and it could be very good or underwhelming. I personally would like to see this.

  Rubble does not expire in return it caps at 10, 25 or 50(this being number of stacks). Looking into it, 10 stacks is 750 armor, which would bring him to 1200 armor. This brings him to 80% damage reduction, 25 stacks would bring him to 88% damage reduction, and 93% dmg reduction on 50.

  Rubble applying all stats increases besides just armor. Landslide amps, amps to every ability. Duration, Strength, maybe even energy regen at higher stacks. Allow you to channel your rubble into your abilities.(Rumblers, Tectonics, Landslide even)

As a note: I think all the rubble is going to do for me personally, is make me want to go for more efficiency, and just spam my ult a few times to get a little bit of armor(but considering the 75 armor per rubble is kind of low unless if the rumblers drop more rubble if at full health, I might not consider it)

Landslide: Zero changes really needed, however removing the third hits damage cap off would be kind of nice, but its definitely not needed unless if you want to take rivens away from working with this ability.

Tectonics: Sadly, as a tiny wall in most instances you'll still be shot from tons of angles this ability just isn't great. Brozimes suggestion(among many others) would be my dream for this ability. Allowing you to Landslide tectonics would be ideal, allowing it to deal damage to a group of enemies while protecting atlas at least from one side would be unbelievably cool and useful. Allowing you to heal it and "buff" it I mean, isn't really.. going to do much, unless if its a MASSIVE increase which I don't believe you guys would change. I think for me personally, having a moving ball hit a group just hasn't ever looked effective nor has it felt effective. With the augment people just bug out AI and block them from scoring in the index, thats why I think Brozimes idea was really cool for the ability.

Petrify: I'd personally like this ability to be gone, but I'm not going to ask that. I know Brozime also has a pillar idea for this ability and that would be really cool, but having it as a aura like some others have suggested would be best, otherwise I would like this for it. Any of these.

     - Petrify to either be added to his passive automatically petrifying enemies he stares at after a brief time.

     - Petrify to be an aura thats toggle-able or have it not slow atlas down in any form. He already has a .9 sprint speed.

     - Petrify to be an ability where Atlas leaps towards a location hes staring at, slamming down causing enemies in a set area to be.. Petrified.

     - Petrify to be emitted from golems, tectonics or have a pillar summoning ability with a set range to stop enemies, allowing Atlas to not use tectonics.

As for the last suggestion on the pillar, you could also Landslide the pillar into enemies dealing damage.

 

Rumblers: I like the idea of just having his rumblers augment from conclave if you tapped 4 once. If you hold 4 you bring out the two rumblers. Of course, simple solutions would be to have them inherit your melee mods, along with maybe take petrify and.. Landslide at a decreased rate of course. I feel like this ultimate doesn't really make much sense for Atlas personally, but at the same time I understand. Atlas is a brawler, so he gets in massive fights and punches dudes. So why not call for help to punch more dudes? As it stands right now they're kind of stupid, but if they had CC potential or all of your abilities under your belt they could be pretty useful.

Well, I might just play Atlas the way I was before. Disregarding all of my abilities, I just can't find a proper use even with being able to buff the two kind of.. bad abilities, or 75 armor per stack thats duration based. I think these need a lot more tweaks to make me interested in changing my playstyle. I lose out on a lot building tons of duration to build this, and this rework is extremely underwhelming to me. Is there any way we can get more detailed numbers on the rubble and any other changes to come along with this? rip my dreams of a simple Atlas rework, wearing my rumblers and punching my walls at people.. and petrify.. being petrify o:

 

[SkilledSniper1]

So... I'm looking at this Atlas 'rework', and so far I'm liking it a lot. But, I have one question:

How will Ore Gaze work in this scenario rework? Will it be like Hydroid and Pilfering Swarm where his passive also gives extra loot? If so, this might make Atlas a viable farming warframe to contest Nekros, Hydroid, and Ivara, as now he will be able to be more offensive with petrify, allowing him to essentially get loot rapidly.

Hope you guys keep stuff like this up. :)

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

1 minute ago, Spell said:

After major nerfs of my favorite stuff - Tonkor, Simulor, Valkyr, now Ember - I barely play anymore, let alone buy plat.

After watching DE's work I'm not even sure what is worse - when devs think money are more important than gameplay *cough*EA*cough* - or PvE "balance" is more important than game's popularity and sales?

Simulor wasnt nerfed. Can still kill high lvl content...

Valkyr is still incredible, just cant activate hysteria then sit there invincible and do nothing... I love the increase in energy mechanic. Makes u keep moving!

[R34LM]

Would you consider adding a small passive to Ash that enemies killed by his finishers turn to dust, as they do in Bladestorm? Being a swift and clean assassin like that would make a unique way for him to remain stealthy, by making sure no dead bodies are found.

[XavierCruz]

And now i am going to wait for when is Nyx will be buff

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

2 minutes ago, BlackMonark said:

Almost like the Tonkor and Simulor were broken as F*** once upon a time, and Valkyr was way too good. So I think they deserved the nerfs. Ember though? Not at all.

Actually, kind of a range nerf, dmg buff. Im intrigued.

[Alpha1641]

I like a lot of these changes (I can use Ash again, hooray!), but I hope it doesn't end here, there are many other frames that could use some tweaking.

Unpopular opinion: I think Mesa (my favorite frame simply due to gunslinger theme) could use some adjustments to make her kit more interactive, use more synergy, and use some power balancing.

• Ballistic battery is very weak and forgettable. In low level missions, enemies die easily enough and extra damage to a single shot has no benefit (similar to melee channeling), but in high level missions, ballistic battery doesn't do enough damage to the strongest enemies to make it worth using.
• Both shooting gallery and shatter shield are activate-and-forget abilities, the most boring form of abilities.
• Shatter shield is also necessary at all times or else she will die to a sneeze. Personal opinion on shatter shield: I don't think it is a very neat gunslinger-like ability (reflecting bullets that hit you?), I am not insisting my ideas are better than anything the developers could create, but maybe dodging (could make use of that neat after-image effect like in peacemaker) or bullet-shooting (not too difficult to implement; see D.va's defense matrix in Overwatch) would be more fit for a gunslinger.
• Peacemaker transforms her into a turret that is rooted in place and has a shrinking reticle over time which you must deactivate and reactivate peacemaker to reset.
• Mesa's passive ability (marksman's dexterity) has the buffs backwards: +10% fire rate to dual wielded sidearms (dual wielded sidearms already gain bonus fire rate over one handed sidearms) and +20% reload speed to one handed sidearms (one handed sidearms already gain bonus reload speed over dual wielded sidearms).
• In addition, Mesa's passive also rewards you with bonus health for unequipping a melee weapon, but you have no melee replacement to fall back on when you eat through all your ammo or simply want to break a container; Perhaps grant some ammo regeneration or ammo mutation when she has no melee equipped?

Edited February 3, 2018 by Alpha1641

[Vogue]

5 minutes ago, Spell said:

After major nerfs of my favorite stuff - Tonkor, Simulor, Valkyr, now Ember - I barely play anymore, let alone buy plat.

After watching DE's work I'm not even sure what is worse - when devs think money are more important than gameplay *cough*EA*cough* - or PvE "balance" is more important than game's popularity and sales?

I love people who keep threatening with the whole buy plat deal... seriously how old are you?

 

[CephalonBot]

Ok, as a Mag main I'm in love with these suggestions

[Biddion]

Sounds good.

[Spell]

Just now, BlackMonark said:

Almost like the Tonkor and Simulor were broken as F*** once upon a time, and Valkyr was way too good. So I think they deserved the nerfs. Ember though? Not at all.

What would you prefer - a gun what is "broken" but useful or a completely useless gun? After "balance" Tonkor is simply unusable now - unless you have a bot-friend to resurrect you non-stop.

Same with Valkyr and Simulor on any frame but Mirage. And I guess Mirage is the next candidate for nerfs considering DE's trend to turn gameplay into boring hunt for energy drops.

Just I hope Mirage won't be nerfed till autumn - then I'll simply switch to MonsterHunter.

[Averath]

I will start off by saying that I am not upset that Ember and Chroma are being addressed. However, I will say that the way that they are addressing these changes isn't actually improving either of these warframes in a significant manner.

I will start with Ember. Ember's problem is that she trivializes low level content and is completely ineffective at high level content. The main problem is one of her abilities, World on Fire. At this point we all know how it works and the strengths and weaknesses of the ability, so there is very little point to give a summary. Instead, I'll simply state that changing World on Fire will only make Ember worse at trivializing low level content, while keeping her completely ineffective at high level content. This problem is not a matter of tuning, but a matter of design. Some Ember mains may disagree with me, but World on Fire as an ability needs to be replaced, ironically with an ability that seems to have been in a much earlier build of the game.

It would make a lot more sense for Ember's passive to change and her 4th ability to be replaced. Her passive currently is worthless in that you have to get yourself procced with fire to take advantage of it, which could easily get you killed. It would make more sense to have it be similar to Frost's passive, in that hitting her deals fire damage to the attacker. As for her 4th ability? The idea I was discussing with a friend earlier was something along the lines of "Cloak of Fire", which enshrouds Ember in fire that reduces incoming damage by a percentage, deals damage over time in a small radius around her, and adds fire damage to all of her attacks based on the ability + power strength. This would enhance damage from melee, primary, and secondary weapons.

An ability like this would help her scale into the later sections of the game through enhancing her survivability, while also allowing her to increase the damage of her weapons directly, without having to rely on weapons built specifically for fire damage to take advantage of accelerant.

 

Chroma's issue is also a matter of design and massive inconsistencies, which apparently DE wants to address by making him more consistent in one area, while leaving him inconsistent in other areas. Let me explain. Chroma is one of the only warframes that require you to be near him at all times to take advantage of his buffs. I cannot think of any other warframe that gives a buff that falls off the instant someone steps out of a pre-defined range. To address this, instead of making Chroma consistent with other warframes DE introduced an augment. This was a mistake and this is a great opportunity to fix that, as DE has shown a willingness to rework augments through Banshee's changes.

I do not know what DE should change the augment into, but Elemental Ward and Vex Armor should be made snapshot buffs like every other buff in the game that functions similarly. This would allow for Chroma to actually fill a support role that DE wants him to fulfill, while also letting players roam freely, rather than stay in one location to take advantage of a buff. Almost every change over the last few years has been with the intent to get players more active and mobile, and having a buff function like this is contrary to this design philosophy!

Further, if DE is going to severely curtail Vex Armor's strength as an ability, thus massively reducing the armor and damage Chroma gains from it, they should either make it so that it is easier to achieve the maximum value from Vex Armor, or make it so that Chroma can refresh the ability, perhaps with a mod in similar scope to Valkyr's Eternal War. This would incentivize Chroma to remain active to continue to support his team, while also not making it necessary to rely on self damage every 30-60 seconds to gain the most out of the ability.

Chroma's 1 and 4 are still abilities that will be under utilized because their functionality is not suited to the current state of the game, but those would require a greater rework.

[SordidDreams]

6 minutes ago, Vogue said:

I love people who keep threatening with the whole buy plat deal... seriously how old are you?

I love people who somehow find that immature. DE is a for-profit company, withholding money from them is the most serious and damaging thing you can do to them (unless you're willing to do something illegal or have a massive online fanbase of your own that you could badmouth the game to). It is, in fact, the only thing they care about.

Edited February 3, 2018 by SordidDreams

[Rex101]

The scaling damage doesn't feel enough a buff for Ember to balance out the nerfs she's receiving or get her in to higher levels.  Maybe increase the base damage or just settle with a decaying range but keep the damage boost.  World on Fire lasting almost forever is fine and didn't need to be nerfed.

[TebZdotCOM]

Banshee:
Farming Focus is boring... OHMY@(*()$WORD - ITS FUUUCKING RETARTED. You think we enjoy pressing 4 and just sitting there....  ---WE DONT. --- But pressing 4 with Banshee is the best way. to at least speed this boring time spent doing this S#&$. NOW YOU WANT TO MAKE IT EVEN MORE BORING.... WTF DE. Why not just remove the ability?

Ember:
If you think she needs a nerf... Then go and press 4 in a sortie mission... Since Ember is so @(*()$ squicky --you die... even before you got the chance to press 4. and thats lvl 80 enemies... RIP if you want to do endurance runs with her. (ONLY USING HER 4th)

I dont think you guys understand the gameplay as well us who play it everyday. You give us the tools and we build. Sometimes we build S#&$ you didnt wanted us to build, so what do you do? you replace our tools? All of us have spent hours leveling, crafting, farming Lenses, Reactants and orokin reactors... on Ember and Banshee.. Why F*** with our time like that? We give us something then take it away?? I love this game but lately... I feel that DE forget that WE play the game not them. If the game isnt fun then we wont play it. There are so FEW warframes that gets the job done. Ember, if you want to farm but dont want to deal with the enemies, just press 4 and then you can mine and gather resources. Banshee, You work long hours at work. You want to farm some Focus but dont have the time. GO to Hydron Press 4. These are situational... You say you dont like how we use them, did you ask us why? To new players this is fine. But to Vets.. People who spent 2000+ hours in this game.. You're fixing S#&$ that was NEVER broken. and now is.

Here is an idea! IF YOU THINK AN ABILITY NEEDS A NURF OR A BUFF ASK YOUR PLAYERS, THE PEOPLE WHO IS ACTIVELY PLAYING YOUR S#&$ TO VOTE!

[lRISSKA]

All nice, but! Problem with 2nd or 3rd ability Titania is still there. Enemies under the effect of the ability to fly outside of the map or fly up to the ceiling (sometimes through the texture) making it difficult gameplay.
 In the case of the 3rd ability is impossible to use the augment, as the enemy is under the influence of "light" the shot in it or blow flies and no longer attracts other enemies. Problem with "Zenistar" are colossal. The enemy is under the effect of the lamp may not be in range "zenistar". Frequent problems arise from the "Law of Retribution" when the bearer of the bomb flies off the map and the mission becomes impossible. Propose to reduce the movement speed of enemies abilities to minus 300% or even make their point offset is zero! (Offer only applies to 3rd ability)

 There was great indignation from the usefulness of the 2nd ability of Titania. Buffs very controversial. Their usefulness pales in comparison to the buffs of other frames. And sometimes seem out of place and tremendously weak. Return damage to enemies higher level - sometimes the enemy will kill faster than the frame itself will get any damage.

 That has no complaints so it ultimately the ability of Titania. she's beautiful! But to play for Titania just because of her ultimate, will not bring any benefit for the team. And give a little fun for her!

 Thank you for your attention and apologize for my English.

Edited February 3, 2018 by lRISSKA

[SordidDreams]

6 hours ago, Raven212Cz said:

I'm not massively knowledgeable about chroma so simple question for people which knows ins and outs. How large nerf is this? 

Colossal.

[Derek_Icelord]

Overall I'm quite pleased with these changes. My big reservation is on Atlas. The big changes look like they're centered around Petrify and the new rubble mechanic. I don't think this will be enough to convince people to play him. Without more HP and damage, his Rumblers will still be weak and borderline useless.

My other reservation is on Gara, pending on exactly how her Mass Vitrify "scales" with health and shields. I'm still very bitter about the last time you changed this skill. Also, you need to include enemy armor in the scaling. Grineer units deal a lot of damage, but they don't have any shields to scale off of. I really want a reason to play her again, but the massive nerf to her Mass Vitrify really left a bad taste.

[Golite]

as a melee focused player i am greatly disturbed by ember's change now that naramon invisibility(which was useful but not entirely vital) is gone this will practically require me to farm for the invisibility arcane to maintain any form of survivability with ember. ember"s range with firequake allowed enemies to be managed until they could be offed efficiently. this change ensures that ember bares her behind to all enemies she is not currently fighting unless the purpose of ember is to be a walking accelerant bomb because that is the only viable build that doesnt use firequake cc extensively unless she is only used to fight infested.